Jeff Gordon slams the Rams

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  • January 30, 2016 at 10:43 am #38335
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Tipsheet: Rams planned for 2016 breakout

    Jeff Gordon

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu…cle_d37ac764-2cd7-56a1-a4be-be8c1a265668.html

    When the Rams drafted a rehabbing running back and a bunch of offensive linemen to train on the job last season, it was glaringly obvious they were building for the 2016 season.

    The organization targeted this year for its shift to Los Angeles and decided to use last season as preparation for that.

    Why else would the Rams build around running back Todd Gurley, who wouldn’t be able to play in Week 1, and so many linemen who wouldn’t be ready to block right away?

    “Four of our five starters from the 2014 team, when we went to draft, still weren’t on our roster for various reasons,” Rams general manager Les Snead told the Los Angeles Times while down at the Senior Bowl looking for the next Isaiah Pead and Brian Quick. “We needed to draft, develop some guys and let them grow together . . . we think we’re on our way to see it come to fruition.”

    True enough, Rob Havenstein and Co. learned the NFL ropes while the Rams muddled to another losing season in St. Louis. So, yes, they should be good to go in LA.

    Will the Rams as a whole be ready to actually reach the other side of .500 in Year 5 of the eternal Jeff Fisher rebuild?

    “The goal is to be consistently good and I think that should be the goal whether you’re moving to L.A. or you’re in a very small town somewhere else,” Snead told the Times. “If you come out and you consistently compete and you’re consistently good and you earn some equity . . . (fans are) going to get behind you . . . Take L.A. out of it. Let’s be a good football team, consistently good. We’ve had some inconsistencies in the past. That’s why you keep doing it. Keep evolving, keep maturing, all those things to get consistently good.”

    Off course, playing behind a young offensive line last season left quarterback Nick Foles shell-shocked. That forced the Rams to head West with the uninspiring Case Keenum as their starting quarterback.

    So will the Rams take another stab at drafting a quarterback?

    “You definitely have to prepare that you might do it,” Snead said. “Sometimes with QBs we’ve seen some very successful ones go in the second round, and the third round seems to be hot of late. I’m thinking of Russell Wilson. I’m thinking of Kirk Cousins. So the thing about the draft is, because it’s become a nice entertainment segment … there’s so much attention on the first round, especially at the QB position, that sometimes the third-round QB, it’s ‘Oh, he’s a third-round QB.’ But the long story short on all of that is we’ll definitely scout QBs, and we’ll definitely look at the trade market and free-agent market. The answer is yes.”

    With any luck, Snead will locate the next Garrett Gilbert.

    January 30, 2016 at 10:47 am #38336
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    I don’t know if it’s a slam so much. He doesn’t seem to be admonishing the Rams. He’s just putting two and two together.

    January 30, 2016 at 11:06 am #38338
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator
    nittany ram wrote:

    I don’t know if it’s a slam so much. He doesn’t seem to be admonishing the Rams. He’s just putting two and two together.

    I took a lot of it that way, ie. as slams. Though I think maybe your point is that putting an editorial remark (“slams”) in the title is a bit out of bounds. Actually I agree with that. In hindsight, better to just put up a neutral title for an article thread, and then comment in the thread.

    I do see the point of this:

    When the Rams drafted a rehabbing running back and a bunch of offensive linemen to train on the job last season, it was glaringly obvious they were building for the 2016 season.

    BUT while the point is valid I have some reservations. IMO, if Foles doesn’t do his wicked witch of the west imitation meltdown, they would have had a winning season. For that matter, if Bradford doesn’t go down, they have winning seasons in both 2014 and 2015. He kind of acknowledges that with Foles when he says that the OL shell-shocked the new qb.

    EXCEPT I don’t buy it. They had to rebuild the OL in 2015 because it fell apart in 2014 (after doing fairly well in 2013.) So the way I see it, in 2015 they had 2 choices:

    * rebuild the OL with FAs mixed in, which means taking cap space out of 2016 and 2017 thereby limiting how many of their own FAs they could sign

    * rebuild the OL with youth, thereby saving 2016 and 2017 cap space to spend on their own FAs

    I think the smarter thing longterm was to preserve the cap space, and that’s whether they moved or not. That is, I usually will endorse “make it for the longterm” moves like that.

    In terms of taking a rehabbing RB, not bad. If the is going to be better in 2016, a full 2 years after the surgery, then…cowabunga. Either way it’s not like Gurley did nothing in 2015.

    As for the slams…it’s not just the tone, it’s comments like this:

    zn wrote:

    With any luck, Snead will locate the next Garrett Gilbert.

    Ooo zinger Jeff. Ouch.

    I thought he was being petulant, myself.

    January 30, 2016 at 11:38 am #38339
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator
    zn wrote:

    As for the slams…it’s not just the tone, it’s comments like this:

    zn wrote:

    With any luck, Snead will locate the next Garrett Gilbert.

    Ooo zinger Jeff. Ouch.

    I thought he was being petulant, myself.

    Yeah, I missed that last crack about Gilbert. That’s definately a slam.

    And you do a nice takedown of Gordon’s Building for 2016 Hypothesis.

    January 30, 2016 at 11:57 am #38340
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator
    nittany ram wrote:

    And you do a nice takedown of Gordon’s Building for 2016 Hypothesis.

    Save your searing bitter personal attacks for email, where they belong.

    Translation: thanks!

    .

    January 30, 2016 at 12:11 pm #38341
    Avatar photoAgamemnon
    Participant

    I like conspiracies. They are cool. 😉

    I don’t believe that the way Fisher built the Rams was because of them wanting to move to LA.

    That is one of the things I give Fisher credit for. Building for the future. I agree with the way he shaped the roster, given what was out there in free agency and the draft, except he gambled on the QB position too much. imo

    I also think your second QB has to be something more than an adequate backup. Ideally, he should be able to start.

    Agamemnon

    January 30, 2016 at 12:27 pm #38342
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i don’t buy gordon’s argument that the rams roster building strategy was based around a move to los angeles, but i definitely believe there was a conspiracy to move the rams to los angeles.

    goodell knew as far back as when kroenke first bought the hollywood park land and then lied about not knowing kroenke’s intentions for that land. i also believe this knowledge went beyond just kroenke and goodell.

    i believe a lot of what happened the past couple years was orchestrated to facilitate the move to los angeles. now does that mean i think it was a slam dunk guarantee? no. but i do believe that st louis, the chargers, and the raiders were lied to. they were handcuffed from the very start.

    January 30, 2016 at 12:37 pm #38343
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator
    InvaderRam wrote:

    i don’t buy gordon’s argument that the rams roster building strategy was based around a move to los angeles, but i definitely believe there was a conspiracy to move the rams to los angeles.

    goodell knew as far back as when kroenke first bought the hollywood park land and then lied about not knowing kroenke’s intentions for that land. i also believe this knowledge went beyond just kroenke and goodell.

    i believe a lot of what happened the past couple years was orchestrated to facilitate the move to los angeles. now does that mean i think it was a slam dunk guarantee? no. but i do believe that st louis, the chargers, and the raiders were lied to. they were handcuffed from the very start.

    Certainly Goodell knew Kroenke was developing a stadium proposal on that Hollywood Park land. And so did the entire league. You know, the Carson project was announce a month after Kroenke’s project. They were working on their proposal for a long time before that.

    I don’t know how the Chargers and Raiders were lied to.

    January 30, 2016 at 12:57 pm #38347
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    ok. maybe they weren’t lied to. i think they were misled at the very least. spanos was shocked by the lack of support he received when it came time to vote.

    i also think this rams chargers agreement is a farce too. i don’t believe the nfl wants two teams in la. not at this point and not when they can use it as leverage in the future. the chargers will be back in san diego. the nfl wants the chargers in san diego. ok. now i’m just going off on a tangent.

    but i do believe there was a conspiracy.

    January 30, 2016 at 1:19 pm #38351
    bnw
    Blocked
    nittany ram wrote:

    I don’t know if it’s a slam so much. He doesn’t seem to be admonishing the Rams. He’s just putting two and two together.

    I’d read this as a slam,

    “Rams general manager Les Snead told the Los Angeles Times while down at the Senior Bowl looking for the next Isaiah Pead and Brian Quick.”

    Ouch.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    January 30, 2016 at 1:24 pm #38352
    Herzog
    Participant

    There are many times during the season that I thought Fisher did exactly as Gordon is suggesting. Remember when we were all discussing how many times in the history of the NFL a team has started two rookie Offensive Lineman and succeeded?

    But I am wondering if this is just a flaw in Fisher’s approach. Maybe he is Captain 8 and 8 b/c of this flaw.

    January 30, 2016 at 1:35 pm #38355
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Remember when we were all discussing how many times in the history of the NFL a team has started two rookie Offensive Lineman and succeeded?

    But the way I see that one is that they had basically no choice.

    They had a line in 2013, it got wrecked in 2014, and in 2015 they either got linemen through the draft or spent future cap space from 2016 on for free agent linemen, when they needed that cap space to sign their own 2016 free agents.

    I personally think it was better to repair the line with youngsters than to spend that cap space.

    Plus, of course, Gordon seems to act as if Foles melting down were part of some deliberate plan. Fact is, they did build a defense that kept them competitive in 2015. No qb meltdown and they win 2-3 more games IMO.

    .

    January 30, 2016 at 1:39 pm #38358
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    The question is, did Snead draft the way he did BECAUSE he was deliberately trying to miss the playoffs in 2015, but be built for them in 2016?

    No way.

    I agree with zn. The line fell apart. They decided to fucking fix it. And the draft seemed to best way to do that for $ reasons, and because there wasn’t much in FA. And Gurley fell into their lap.

    What is always missing in the “Complain About the Personnel Moves” arguments is ANY alternative plan. As if the Rams could have drafted other people who would have made an instant impact and propelled the Rams to the playoffs last year? Like who?

    Gurley and Havenstein represent about as good a draft as a team can have, fer chrissakes. The entire draft was an A, looks like. So I’m supposed to believe that they could have drafted 5 Aaron Donald types and made the playoffs, but – No! – they were conspiring to move to LA and had to have a crappy draft? Please.

    January 30, 2016 at 1:47 pm #38365
    Avatar photowv
    Participant
    Zooey wrote:

    The question is, did Snead draft the way he did BECAUSE he was deliberately trying to miss the playoffs in 2015, but be built for them in 2016?

    No way.

    I agree with zn. The line fell apart. They decided to fucking fix it. And the draft seemed to best way to do that for $ reasons, and because there wasn’t much in FA. And Gurley fell into their lap.

    What is always missing in the “Complain About the Personnel Moves” arguments is ANY alternative plan. As if the Rams could have drafted other people who would have made an instant impact and propelled the Rams to the playoffs last year? Like who?

    Gurley and Havenstein represent about as good a draft as a team can have, fer chrissakes. The entire draft was an A, looks like. So I’m supposed to believe that they could have drafted 5 Aaron Donald types and made the playoffs, but – No! – they were conspiring to move to LA and had to have a crappy draft? Please.

    ————————

    Ditto.

    w
    v

    January 30, 2016 at 1:55 pm #38368
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    to be fair to gordon i don’t think he’s trying to say that the rams were intentionally tanking a season or that they had a lousy draft.

    i think he’s just saying that they were building for 2016 not 2015.

    where i disagree with him is saying that it was in preparation for a move. even if they were staying in st. louis i think fisher would have had the same approach.

    January 30, 2016 at 2:11 pm #38370
    bnw
    Blocked
    InvaderRam wrote:

    where i disagree with him is saying that it was in preparation for a move. even if they were staying in st. louis i think fisher would have had the same approach.

    Why disagree when the front office efforts towards marketing the team to the season tix holders and local fans was so abysmal? The fix was in for the move to LA simply because StanK tried to drive business away in ’15 and money is mothers-milk to StanK.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    January 30, 2016 at 3:34 pm #38375
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator
    bnw wrote:
    InvaderRam wrote:

    where i disagree with him is saying that it was in preparation for a move. even if they were staying in st. louis i think fisher would have had the same approach.

    Why disagree when the front office efforts towards marketing the team to the season tix holders and local fans was so abysmal? The fix was in for the move to LA simply because StanK tried to drive business away in ’15 and money is mothers-milk to StanK.

    well like i said had the rams been staying in st louis i think the approach would have been the same. and there was no intention to lose. shoot. had quinn simply stayed healthy and foles merely been mediocre my guess is the rams would have made the playoffs and the rams still would have moved to los angeles.

    January 30, 2016 at 4:44 pm #38384
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator
    InvaderRam wrote:

    well like i said had the rams been staying in st louis i think the approach would have been the same. and there was no intention to lose. shoot. had quinn simply stayed healthy and foles merely been mediocre my guess is the rams would have made the playoffs and the rams still would have moved to los angeles.

    Right. Exactly.

    January 30, 2016 at 5:16 pm #38385
    Avatar photowv
    Participant
    InvaderRam wrote:

    … shoot. had quinn simply stayed healthy and foles merely been mediocre my guess is the rams would have made the playoffs and the rams still would have moved to los angeles.

    Yes. Thank-you for noticing that Q
    is a critical piece on the chess board.
    Q is, like, the Queen. Or somethin.

    As big a wrecking ball as A.Donald was,
    think how effective he could have been
    had a healthy Q been on the edge.

    When/if healthy that duo
    could be one of the greatest
    duos in NFL history. Think
    about it.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    January 30, 2016 at 6:17 pm #38394
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator
    wv wrote:
    InvaderRam wrote:

    … shoot. had quinn simply stayed healthy and foles merely been mediocre my guess is the rams would have made the playoffs and the rams still would have moved to los angeles.

    Yes. Thank-you for noticing that Q
    is a critical piece on the chess board.
    Q is, like, the Queen. Or somethin.

    As big a wrecking ball as A.Donald was,
    think how effective he could have been
    had a healthy Q been on the edge.

    When/if healthy that duo
    could be one of the greatest
    duos in NFL history. Think
    about it.

    w
    v

    ogletree too. i wonder about tree’s commitment but if he maxes out his potential and quinn can get healthy. yeah. that d could accomplish some things.

    January 31, 2016 at 11:52 am #38411
    bnw
    Blocked
    wv wrote:
    InvaderRam wrote:

    … shoot. had quinn simply stayed healthy and foles merely been mediocre my guess is the rams would have made the playoffs and the rams still would have moved to los angeles.

    Yes. Thank-you for noticing that Q
    is a critical piece on the chess board.
    Q is, like, the Queen. Or somethin.

    As big a wrecking ball as A.Donald was,
    think how effective he could have been
    had a healthy Q been on the edge.

    When/if healthy that duo
    could be one of the greatest
    duos in NFL history. Think
    about it.

    w
    v

    The loss of Max Q continues to hurt this team.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

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