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  • #47909
    Zooey
    Moderator

    Seems to describe the situation pretty accurately.

    LET’S CALL THE WHOLE THING OFF

    Where is all this anger coming from? It’s viral, and Trump is Typhoid Mary. Intellectually and emotionally weakened by years of steadily degraded public discourse, we are now two separate ideological countries, LeftLand and RightLand, speaking different languages, the lines between us down. Not only do our two subcountries reason differently; they draw upon non-intersecting data sets and access entirely different mythological systems. You and I approach a castle. One of us has watched only “Monty Python and the Holy Grail,” the other only “Game of Thrones.” What is the meaning, to the collective “we,” of yon castle? We have no common basis from which to discuss it. You, the other knight, strike me as bafflingly ignorant, a little unmoored. In the old days, a liberal and a conservative (a “dove” and a “hawk,” say) got their data from one of three nightly news programs, a local paper, and a handful of national magazines, and were thus starting with the same basic facts (even if those facts were questionable, limited, or erroneous). Now each of us constructs a custom informational universe, wittingly (we choose to go to the sources that uphold our existing beliefs and thus flatter us) or unwittingly (our app algorithms do the driving for us). The data we get this way, pre-imprinted with spin and mythos, are intensely one-dimensional. (As a proud knight of LeftLand, I was interested to find that, in RightLand, Vince Foster has still been murdered, Dick Morris is a reliable source, kids are brainwashed “way to the left” by going to college, and Obama may yet be Muslim. I expect that my interviewees found some of my core beliefs equally jaw-dropping.)

    A Trump supporter in Fountain Hills asks me, “If you’re a liberal, do you believe in the government controlling everything? Because that’s what Barry wants to do, and what he’s pretty much accomplished.” She then makes the (to me, irrational and irritating) claim that more people are on welfare under Obama than ever were under Bush.

    “Almost fifty million people,” her husband says. “Up thirty per cent.”

    I make a certain sound I make when I disagree with something but have no facts at my disposal.

    Back at the hotel, I Google it.

    Damn it, they’re right. Rightish.

    What I find over the next hour or so, from a collection of Web sites, left, right, and fact-based:

    Yes, true: there are approximately seven million more Americans in poverty now than when Obama was elected. On the other hand, the economy under Obama has gained about seven times as many jobs as it did under Bush; even given the financial meltdown, the unemployment rate has dropped to just below the historical average. But, yes: the poverty rate is up by 1.6 percentage points since 2008. Then again the number of Americans in poverty fell by nearly 1.2 million between 2012 and 2013. However, true: the proportion of people who depend on welfare for the majority of their income has increased (although it was also increasing under Bush). And under Obama unemployment has dropped, G.D.P. growth has been “robust,” and there have been close to seventy straight months of job growth. But, O.K.: there has indeed been a “skyrocketing” in the number of Americans needing some form of means-tested federal aid, although Obama’s initiatives kept some six million people out of poverty in 2009, including more than two million children.

    So the couple’s assertion was true but not complexly true. It was a nice hammer with which to pop the enemy; i.e., me. Its intent: discredit Obama and the liberal mind-set. What was my intent as I Googled? Get a hammer of my own, discredit Bush and the conservative mind-set.

    Meanwhile, there sat reality: huge, ambiguous, too complicated to be usefully assessed by our prevailing mutual ambition—to fight and win, via delivery of the partisan zinger.

    LeftLand and RightLand are housemates who are no longer on speaking terms. And then the house is set on fire. By Donald Trump. Good people from both subnations gape at one another through the smoke.

    From a New Yorker article on Trump Supporters.
    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/11/george-saunders-goes-to-trump-rallies?mbid=social_facebook

    • This topic was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Zooey. Reason: Expanded from one paragraph, to a whole bloody section
    #47913
    Zooey
    Moderator

    This topic was modified 1 hour, 3 minutes ago by Zooey Zooey. Reason: Expanded from one paragraph, to a whole bloody section

    And yet, somehow, it didn’t “edit” so much as initiate a fresh post. I blame the Tea Party.

    #47917
    wv
    Participant

    “…LeftLand and RightLand are housemates who are no longer on speaking terms. And then the house is set on fire. By Donald Trump. Good people from both subnations gape at one another through the smoke.”

    Well, fwiw, i think he’s got some things right. At least loosely, in general. There ‘are’ indeed some major chasms out there betwixt some groups, and there is virtually no chance of communication between some members of those groups.

    But I dont think “leftland” and ‘rightland’ are the only two kingdoms out there.
    There’s a lot more kingdoms than that and there is all kinds of complex, layered overlaps. Lots of venn diagram kingdoms of different sizes and colors.

    Generally speaking that writer seems to be noticing only Dem-land and Rep-land, it seems to me.

    Plus, Trump did not start the house-fire. Thats a dead giveaway that the guy is in Dem vs Rep mode. The fire was started by…corporate-capitalism? Nixon? The Santa Clara case? The conquest of indigenous peoples by the Europeans? Industrial Revolution? WWI ? WWII? The big bang? I mean where did the ‘fire’ start? Any single place you point to, is pretty arbitrary in my view.

    Crazy times on earth.

    Do you have a garden Zooey, or do you hate flowers? We shoot flowers with our
    semi-automatic weapons here in wv-land. Just to watch them die.

    w
    v

    #47925
    bnw
    Blocked

    Flowers are born to die. Always.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #47936
    wv
    Participant

    Flowers are born to die. Always.

    =================
    Indeed. Nature kills everything,
    sooner or later.

    w
    v
    “Nature is pitiless; she never withdraws her flowers, her music, her fragrance,
    and her sunlight from before human cruelty or suffering.”
    — Victor Hugo (Quatrevingt-Treize)

    #47939
    bnw
    Blocked

    Flowers are born to die. Always.

    =================
    Indeed. Nature kills everything,
    sooner or later.

    w
    v
    “Nature is pitiless; she never withdraws her flowers, her music, her fragrance,
    and her sunlight from before human cruelty or suffering.”
    — Victor Hugo (Quatrevingt-Treize)

    Yes but especially in the very fleeting case of the flower.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

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