in the end will McVay want Tavon?

This topic has 29 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 7 months ago by InvaderRam.

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May 5, 2017 at 11:29 pm #68416

zn
Moderator

There are a lot of theories on Tavon. That coaches haven’t used him right or coached him right. Or, that it’s him, and that he’s just a “gadget.”

My view is that he’s just not a pure receiver, that he’s a hybrid weapon, a combined yardage guy, and you figure out ways to use him based on what he is. His best year, 2015, was his best because they used him in a variety of ways and didn’t try to make him a pure receiver.

I have a feeling McVay DOES want him to be a pure receiver. In which case, I would be surprised if he lasts with the Rams, cause I don’t think he can do that.

And I like Tavon. I’m not complaining about him.

So it seems to me McVay has 2 clear choices.

* He can embrace what Tavon DOES do well, and use him as a hybrid weapon like he was in 2015, and maybe add a little more to his tool box.

* Or if McVay doesn’t want that, and in fact does want Tavon to be a pure receiver (and if he can’t then he has no use for him), then, the way I see it, any effort to try and make him into a pure receiver will simply prove he’s not one, in which case yes he’s probably gone.

OR I could be massively (and pleasantly) surprised, and sure enough, he can play more like a pure receiver, and so sticks around.

..

May 6, 2017 at 12:36 am #68425

Agamemnon
Participant

Tavon was always a playmaker in my mind, not a position gender. 😉 I think McVay will get Tavon his touches. Mostly in different roles, because of matchups. McVay likes his mismatches. imo

I don’t know if he sticks or not. There is a place for him on my team. If McVay moves on, so be it. I think I would just call him a RB.

Agamemnon

May 6, 2017 at 6:40 am #68431

nittany ram
Moderator

I think McVay probably has a good handle on what Tavon can do and how to get the most out of him.

If it was up to me, I’d keep him around just for his skills as a punt returner.

May 6, 2017 at 11:48 am #68439

zn
Moderator

PFF: RAMS WANT WR TAVON AUSTIN TO BECOME MORE OF A DEEP THREAT

Austin would have to dramatically alter his game if he wants to threaten deep.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-rams-want-wr-tavon-austin-to-become-more-of-a-deep-threat/

The Rams reportedly want WR Tavon Austin to become more of a deep threat, utilizing his speed more like the likes of Buccaneers WR DeSean Jackson. The fifth-year player will have to dramatically change his game to do so:

Austin’s average depth of target last year was just 7.7 yards down field, second lowest of players with 100-plus targets and almost three times lower than league-leading Sammie Coates (21.6 yards).

Austin has caught just six of 30 targets on post and ‘go’ routes, for 197 yards and two touchdowns throughout his career.

For his career, he has averaged just 6.6 yards per target on go and post routes. Jackson in 2016 averaged almost double that (12.0 yards), scoring four times on 24 such targets.

May 6, 2017 at 2:24 pm #68443

Agamemnon
Participant

That is fine if they want the Rams to send Tavon deep more often. But his true value is that he can take a short pass or hand off and go the distance. The idea that he can score from anywhere at anytime. So, more deep passes isn’t really the key. imo

Don’t the look at their own data?

Austin has caught just six of 30 targets on post and ‘go’ routes, for 197 yards and two touchdowns throughout his career.

They is a deceiving stat or a limited WR stat for WRs only. How man times did Tavon score from 30+ yards out?
I throw out last year. Last year was somekind of year from hell thing, for the entire Offense. 😉

Agamemnon

May 6, 2017 at 2:31 pm #68444

zn
Moderator

Agamemnon wrote:

How man times did Tavon score from 30+ yards out?

According to espn splits, from 2013-16, it’s one time.

I am not making a point with that one way or another, just noting it.

May 6, 2017 at 2:44 pm #68446

Agamemnon
Participant

zn wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:

How man times did Tavon score from 30+ yards out?

According to espn splits, from 2013-16, it’s one time.

I am not making a point with that one way or another, just noting it.

I am also counting returns in my mind. But maybe I am remembering too many that were cancelled by penalties. The graphic from NFL shows the same thing.

Agamemnon

May 6, 2017 at 4:33 pm #68448

sanbagger
Participant

I believe McV plans on moving TA around and even handing the ball off…maybe not the ‘up the gut’ runs we have seen in the past, but I’m positive we’ll see some Jet sweeps and the like.

I’m not so sure about the whole “pure receiver’ thing….what I’m sure of is he has had more drops than he should have…I put him as inconsistent at this point, he has stretches when he just catches everything and stretches when the ball bounces off his hands like bullets off of Superman.

I think the whole ‘gets lost running deep routes’ is just an armchair explanation…it is a fact shorter guys can be successful down the field, but they have to have a good operating O to be able to do this. Name a small receiver on a terrible O that exploited other teams down the field.

The Fisher led Rams did throw downfield but they used TA to try and keep the D close…as a decoy…that was what TA’s duties were quite a bit… Now as Dylan said “times, they are a changin’

Oh…in case you didn’t know…I’m a TA guy.

May 6, 2017 at 4:54 pm #68449

zn
Moderator

sanbagger wrote:

I believe McV plans on moving TA around and even handing the ball off

Here;s something that backs you up:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-tavon-austin-wrist-surgery-20170505-story.html

“You look at some of the things that Tavon Austin does with the ball, both in the run game and when he’s able to catch it as a receiver,” McVay said in February. “He’s a guy that you want to move all over the formation.”

May 6, 2017 at 6:05 pm #68452

Agamemnon
Participant

At 3 minutes in it gives Tavon’s top speed as 18.85 mph. Tavon is really quick, but his top end speed isn’t as spectacular. The fastest guys hit 22.6 mph. See this post. How Fast is Fast. => http://theramshuddle.com/topic/how-fast-is-fast/

That is his top speed at the end of his 40, so maybe he has more than that?

Agamemnon

May 9, 2017 at 2:30 pm #68534

zn
Moderator

.@RamsNFL GM Les Snead tells @SiriusXMNFL "goal" is Tavon Austin (wrist) back 4 training camp. Hopes he assumes DeSean Jackson-like role

— Alex Marvez (@alexmarvez) May 9, 2017

May 15, 2017 at 10:23 am #68851

zn
Moderator

Rams want Tavon Austin to play DeSean Jackson role in new offense

By Alden Gonzalez

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/33810/rams-want-tavon-austin-to-play-desean-jackson-role-in-new-offense

THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. — The Los Angeles Rams are operating under the expectation that Tavon Austin will be ready by training camp. The fifth-year receiver recently underwent arthroscopic surgery to repair ligament damage in his left wrist, a procedure that will sideline him for organized team activities but should have him healthy and ready by late July.

The Rams are hoping he returns as a slightly different player.

Under former coach Jeff Fisher, the Rams used Austin, the eighth overall pick in 2013, as something of a gadget receiver. He returned punts, made 75 of his 181 catches behind the line of scrimmage (tied for second in the NFL over the last four years) and carried the ball 125 times (by far the most among receivers during that stretch). But the Rams aren’t yet certain if Austin will continue to return punts. And first-year coach Sean McVay wants Austin, 5-foot-8 with breakneck speed, to establish himself as more of a deep threat, perhaps similar to what DeSean Jackson was for McVay’s offense in Washington.

Is Austin capable?

“He’s shown he can track the ball down the field,” McVay said from the Rams’ rookie minicamp on Friday. “Really, as far as establishing him as a deep threat, I think we’re just looking for all our receivers to be complete. You want to be able to have a short, intermediate and deep-route tree. And I think it gives you a little bit more route versatility so people can’t squat on you. You certainly want to be cognizant of accentuating guys’ skill set, but also not being regulated in terms of, ‘This is what they do.’ That’s the thing that he’s really embraced, and we’re looking to do that with Tavon.”

Aside from 2017 fourth-round pick Josh Reynolds, who’s still very raw, and 2016 sixth-round pick Mike Thomas, an outside candidate to even crack the 53-man roster, the Rams don’t really have someone who specializes in lining up on the outside and beating defenses over the top.

McVay brought up a couple of long touchdown strikes from last season, against the Buccaneers in Week 3 and against the Saints in Week 12, as examples that Austin can make plays down the field. But the 26-year-old has made only 15 career catches on passes that have traveled at least 15 yards through the air, a total surpassed by 125 players over the last four years. His reception percentage on those deep balls is 28.8, 13.7 percentage points below the league average from 2013 to ’16.

One major disadvantage is obvious — Austin’s height, which makes it exceedingly difficult for him to make deep catches without significant separation.

But Jackson is only two inches taller, at 5-foot-10. And with the Falcons last year, new Rams offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur had the explosive, 5-foot-8 Taylor Gabriel. The 6-foot-3, 220-pound Julio Jones operated as Atlanta’s primary deep threat, but LaFleur believes short receivers can do the same as long as they “have the speed to get open” and the “separation skills to get open,” which the Rams believe Austin possesses in abundance.

“He’s got great hands,” LaFleur added. “When we judge receivers, it’s more about their ability to separate. The size is not as big of a concern.”

Austin signed a four-year, $42 million extension weeks before the start of the 2016 season. But the dead money tied to his contract drops from nearly $20 million in 2017 to $5 million in 2018 to zero thereafter, which makes it seem like he is basically on a one-year tryout with this new coaching staff.

The Rams — special-teams coordinator John Fassel specifically — are also open-minded about whether Austin will continue to return punts. He has served as the Rams’ primary punt returner since his rookie year, returning three of them for touchdowns. But Pharoh Cooper, a fourth-round pick last year, will also get consideration for the role. And others may emerge as candidates.

“Any time you’ve got a guy like that who can create with the ball in his hands, you want to be able to create those opportunities,” McVay said of Austin. “But I know there’s other players in place that can do that, as well.”

May 15, 2017 at 10:51 pm #68875

zn
Moderator

What’s Tavon Austin’s Role in Rams New Offense?

Myles Simmons

http://www.therams.com/news-and-events/article-1/Whats-Tavon-Austins-Role-in-Rams-New-Offense/b0a6c05f-dd4e-48a2-b137-70aadd215c23

Rams wide receiver Tavon Austin recently underwent a surgery that will sideline him for the rest of the offseason program. And while that’s not ideal — particularly as Los Angeles installs a new offense under head coach Sean McVay — Austin will still be able to participate in many aspects of OTAs and minicamp.

“You wish he wish he was going to be able to take place in some of these workouts,” McVay said Saturday. “But, I think we’ve got a plan in place to be able to make sure that he’s not going to lose anything from a mental approach. Then because it is an upper-body thing, you can still do a lot of the things in your lower half — stay in shape, run the routes.”

McVay said he wasn’t quite sure when the injury occurred, whether it was during a workout or something lingering from last season.

“Either way, he sustained it and we got it fixed and now we’re moving forward,” McVay said. “It’s something that you’d love him to be a part of it, but I think we feel good about the plan that we’ve got in place for him — where it’s something that we’ll just work through it, as opposed to letting it be something that really affects our ability to move forward as an offense with Tavon.”

A 2013 first-round pick, Austin has recorded 2,610 career yards from scrimmage and 20 rushing and receiving touchdowns. While he received a career high 106 targets in 2016, his overall production took a dip to 668 yards from scrimmage from 907 in 2015.

And so the task for McVay and offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur is to maximize Austin’s talents in their scheme. With Austin’s speed, he’s long been considered a potential downfield threat. But have his new coaches seen that ability?

“We only had him for a limited time before he had the surgery, but you could definitely see and feel his speed,” LaFleur said. “When you look at what Washington was able to do and what Atlanta was able to do and the explosive plays, it all starts with having speed at that receiver position, which is something he possesses. Great guy, is attentive each day, so we’re excited to give him those opportunities.”

Austin’s potential role in Los Angeles’ offense has drawn comparisons to former Washington receiver DeSean Jackson and Atlanta’s Taylor Gabriel — both of whom are smaller in stature, much like Austin. Nevertheless, they both recorded numerous explosive plays. Jackson led the league with 17.9 yards per reception in 2016, and Gabriel was close behind coming in at 16.5 yards per reception.

That’s why LaFleur said coaches are more concerned with how a receiver can separate and catch more than size when it comes to being a downfield threat.

“I know last year in Atlanta, they used Taylor Gabriel and he’s not the tallest guy, but he could get open and he was electric with the ball in his hands,” LaFleur said. “So hopefully we can get Tavon going the same way.”

May 15, 2017 at 11:18 pm #68882
wv
Participant
I think this para-graph right here iz pregnant
with meanings:

“…“He’s shown he can track the ball down the field,” McVay said from the Rams’ rookie minicamp on Friday. “Really, as far as establishing him as a deep threat, I think we’re just looking for all our receivers to be complete. You want to be able to have a short, intermediate and deep-route tree. And I think it gives you a little bit more route versatility so people can’t squat on you. You certainly want to be cognizant of accentuating guys’ skill set, but also not being regulated in terms of, ‘This is what they do.’ That’s the thing that he’s really embraced, and we’re looking to do that with Tavon.”
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by wv.
May 16, 2017 at 12:15 am #68884

zn
Moderator

wv wrote:

“…“He’s shown he can track the ball down the field,” McVay said from the Rams’ rookie minicamp on Friday. “Really, as far as establishing him as a deep threat, I think we’re just looking for all our receivers to be complete. You want to be able to have a short, intermediate and deep-route tree. And I think it gives you a little bit more route versatility so people can’t squat on you. You certainly want to be cognizant of accentuating guys’ skill set, but also not being regulated in terms of, ‘This is what they do.’ That’s the thing that he’s really embraced, and we’re looking to do that with Tavon.”

I agree. I think that’s very telling. McVay clearly has a good offensive mind and he hired a good staff. BUT. What McVay HASN’T revealed yet is an ability to adapt his system to the personnel, or in fact any interest in approaching it that way.

He seems bent on reproducing the personnel he had in Washington. Not precisely, of course, but he has roles in his offense and looks for types that fit those roles. I think if you gave Martz 4 talented skill players of any type whatsoever, he would make something coherent out of it. I think McVay is different–I think he has a specific set of things in mind. And…I think he wants Tavon to be DeSean West.

Since IMO Tavon is a unique talent who can’t be used in any of the roles McVay had in Washington (he’s not DeSean, he’s not Crowder) then McVay is basically doing this–either Tavon fits what I am doing or I don’t need him. And trying to make him into DeSean, IMO, will not work.My view is we already know he’s not DeSean. In fact my view is that it;s a kind of a waste of time to try and make him into that.

I think Tavon is best used the way he was in 2015. So far I don’t see any indication from McVay that he’s interested in that.

.

May 16, 2017 at 8:08 am #68891

sanbagger
Participant

zn wrote:

Since IMO Tavon is a unique talent who can’t be used in any of the roles McVay had in Washington (he’s not DeSean, he’s not Crowder) then McVay is basically doing this–either Tavon fits what I am doing or I don’t need him. And trying to make him into DeSean, IMO, will not work.My view is we already know he’s not DeSean. In fact my view is that it;s a kind of a waste of time to try and make him into that

My view is, in the other offense the D’s knew Tavon was gonna turn it in…the plan was to get TA the ball as soon as possible and let his natural talents take over..this allowed the D to “squat” on him…yet he still broke plays from time to time.

I believe if they actually commit to hitting TA in depth routes….and I’m not just talking about 9 routes…I’m talking about deep (20 yds) in’s and outs, crossing patterns, and comebacks…then that will make his short stuff more accessible and can only help him….I believe that was what McV was referring to and is something I have long believed.

Now…the QB actually has to deliver the ball on time and accurate and TA has to catch the ball.

Last year, when Keenum was the QB, and the Rams were winning TA was catching everything and I even made a post about it….in fact the receivers were helping CK out….of course that all changed but the fact is he can do it IMO.

May 16, 2017 at 8:20 am #68892

sanbagger
Participant

Sorry…I didn’t answer the question in my reply….I think TA has a 2 year audition and I think…surprise….he proves his mettle and becomes what we have hoped he would be

May 16, 2017 at 2:35 pm #68901

sanbagger
Participant

Agamemnon wrote:

At 3 minutes in it gives Tavon’s top speed as 18.85 mph. Tavon is really quick, but his top end speed isn’t as spectacular. The fastest guys hit 22.6 mph. See this post. How Fast is Fast. => http://theramshuddle.com/topic/how-fast-is-fast/

That is his top speed at the end of his 40, so maybe he has more than that?

All I know is he ran a 4.25 at the combine…that equates to quick and fast in my book.

May 18, 2017 at 9:36 pm #69011

zn
Moderator

zn wrote:

I think Tavon is best used the way he was in 2015. So far I don’t see any indication from McVay that he’s interested in that.

I just wanted to add this: in saying things like that, I am not criticizing either guy. Tavon can do what he does, which to me has value, as shown by 2015. On the other hand, McVay didn’t pick TA and if he doesn’t want to work that kind of Tavony stuff into the offense, then, that’s what happens when you get a new coach.

To quote Raising Arizona, there’s what’s right and there’s what’s right and never the twain shall meet.

I know SB and others have a different view–that in fact McVay will find ways to use TA and it’s not all categorical and cut-n-dried.

.

May 19, 2017 at 8:00 am #69018
sanbagger
Participant
zn wrote:

McVay didn’t pick TA and if he doesn’t want to work that kind of Tavony stuff into the offense, then, that’s what happens when you get a new coach

You made some good points most of which we have discussed…I grabbed this one because there’s a couple of things I would like to discuss here.

You’re right…McV didn’t draft TA and it would be easier for him to move away from him then it would for Fisher…I also, his contract becomes friendlier in the next 2 years…still a good hit next year so I kinda believe he has 2 years to keep his spot.

The other item is…LaFleur comes from ATL and they utilized Gariel in some of the same ways STL used TA….so it’s not an unknown to him….we’ll see if McV is hard and fast with his system, as you believe, or is willing to let his system evolve, which is more of my belief.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by sanbagger.
May 19, 2017 at 8:52 am #69022

zn
Moderator

sanbagger wrote:

The other item is…LaFleur comes from ATL and they utilized Gariel in some of the same ways STL used TA….so it’s not an unknown to him….we’ll see if McV is hard and fast with his system, as you believe, or is willing to let his system evolve, which is more of my belief.

Ah I see. What YOU want is a full-blown BOARD WAR.

Jokes aside, you make a good point about LaFleur.

To me, though, right now, the writing on the wall is suggesting something different.

But I would be happy to be wrong about all that…I like what Tavon brings.

.

.

May 19, 2017 at 9:13 am #69023
sanbagger
Participant
No wars…just discussion…I call peace and revisit later.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by sanbagger.
May 19, 2017 at 9:19 am #69025

zn
Moderator

sanbagger wrote:

No wars…just discussion…I call peace and revisit later.

SB! That’s a traditional joke for our board. It’s an ironic moment that makes fun of other boards for warring, but also indicates that we DON’T do that. It’s honestly just humor. I fully believe you want discussion, but the “board war” joke…which is old and very traditional here…is just fun. Its use here is purely ironic and can be taken as saying that yes we just discuss things without conflict, that’s who we are.

A similar joke is when we (mock) accuse each other of being non-Rams fans.

So for example:

Poster 1: Goff may have a steep hill to climb because of his college offense.
Poster 2: Yes well I can see why a Seattle fan would think that.

Jokes about conflict are (interestingly) our little funny way of saying it’s a community with different voices and no conflict.

So the real message in the post with the pic was after the pic:

zn wrote:

Jokes aside, you make a good point about LaFleur.

To me, though, right now, the writing on the wall is suggesting something different.

But I would be happy to be wrong about all that…I like what Tavon brings.

.

May 19, 2017 at 9:45 am #69027

sanbagger
Participant

Zn…I took the post as a joke and had a laugh (thanks, I needed it)…little frustrated today so I was short with the reply…didn’t mean to imply anything else.

What I was trying to say was I feel the offense is in better hands and if it is a TA issue we are gonna find out and conversely if it was a scheme issue we should find that out as well, hence the revisit it later comment.

I have long believed the offensive scheme was terrible for TA and finally feel now we are gonna find out.

May 19, 2017 at 12:05 pm #69046

wv
Participant

sanbagger wrote:

Zn…I took the post as a joke and had a laugh (thanks, I needed it)…little frustrated today so I was short with the reply…didn’t mean to imply anything else.

What I was trying to say was I feel the offense is in better hands and if it is a TA issue we are gonna find out and conversely if it was a scheme issue we should find that out as well, hence the revisit it later comment.

I have long believed the offensive scheme was terrible for TA and finally feel now we are gonna find out.

====================

I’m just glad there’s a new coaching staff, new eyes, new brains, to evaluate the personnel on this team. I lost faith in the old regime. A fresh new set of brains to look at the Tavons and Spruces and GRobs and Saffolds and such. I like it.

I dont remember Tavon dropping so many balls in college. He may have but i didnt see it. I dunno if he has bad hands and will never be reliable — or — if he was in a system that wasn’t dummed-down enuff for him. I dunno. When he starts ‘thinking’ out there, bad things happen.

w
v

May 19, 2017 at 12:12 pm #69048

sanbagger
Participant

wv wrote:

I’m just glad there’s a new coaching staff, new eyes, new brains, to evaluate the personnel on this team. I lost faith in the old regime. A fresh new set of brains to look at the Tavons and Spruces and GRobs and Saffolds and such. I like it.

Yea…I agree.

I think it was time for a change….not quite sure I agreed with the in season canning as it seems it was meant as a splash type of an event and not really beneficial to the team.

I do feel that this regime has brought in a lot of experience on the O side all in an effort to get this team rolling….will TA be a part of it?

May 19, 2017 at 1:32 pm #69053

wv
Participant

sanbagger wrote:

I do feel that this regime has brought in a lot of experience on the O side all in an effort to get this team rolling….will TA be a part of it?

===================

Well no-one knows i spose. They are gonna TRY to incorporate Tavon, but I’m sure they are hedging their bets. I certainly dont think he’s gonna be the center-piece of the offense.

I think its 50/50 right now, on whether Tavon will
be resigned as a Ram.

Goff
Gurley
Tavon
GRob

Four big question marks.

w
v

May 19, 2017 at 3:35 pm #69065

zn
Moderator

.

Just a couple of additions tossed into the discussion. FWIW. This is awkward cause while yes I agree with them, I am posting them because they are out there…it’s not a warboard style “this expert is on my side so I is right” thing. If there’s an article that says different I will post that too.

===

From Robert Klemko –MMQB

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/19/nfl-alex-smith-patrick-mahomes-kansas-city-chiefs

** I think Sean McVay is going to find out that Tavon Austin is best suited for the gadget receiver role he played under the old Rams regime, not the field-stretching, downfield role McVay envisions for the fifth-year receiver. As Numberfire.com notes, just 15 of Austin’s 181 career receptions have traveled more than 15 yards in the air. Even so, Austin struggled with drops in 2016 and too often catches passes in his chest rather than with his hands. Just a hunch: I don’t think L.A.’s deep threat of the McVay Era is on the roster yet.

—

Tavon Austin may have tough transition as Rams’ deep threat

https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/player-news/42318/tavon-austin-may-have-tough-transition-as-rams-deep-threat

Los Angeles Rams wide receiver Tavon Austin has seen only 15 of his 181 career receptions travel more than 15 yards in the air.

WHAT IT MEANS:

New Rams head coach Sean McVay wants Austin to be more like DeSean Jackson in 2017, but the supposed big-play threat has averaged 9.1 yards per catch for his career. His 2016 mark of 8.8 was third-to-last amongst wide receivers, and Jackson averaged literally twice as many yards per catch. Part of it has been Austin’s usage, but the odds of him suddenly developing into a viable deep threat are slim.

May 19, 2017 at 3:46 pm #69067

Agamemnon
Participant

zn wrote:

.

Just a couple of additions tossed into the discussion. FWIW. This is awkward cause while yes I agree with them, I am posting them because they are out there…it’s not a warboard style “this expert is on my side so I is right” thing. If there’s an article that says different I will post that too.

That is a good thing. I post stuff I like, stuff that fills in the gaps, stuff that might be interesting. That includes stuff that I might not agree with.

Agamemnon

May 19, 2017 at 5:37 pm #69070

InvaderRam
Moderator

it’s either tavon adapts or mcvay adapts.

mcvay will probably have to at the beginning but my guess is mcvay eventually phases him out.
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