Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › How good is Shaun Hill? Hill after the last 5 games
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zn.
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December 15, 2014 at 1:21 am #13895
znModeratorHill fell off in the ARZ game. It brought his overall rankings down.
Can he play better or is that who he is?
Here are his numbers across the last 5 games, and then extrapolated to see where he would rank if those numbers held for 13 games.
Completion percentage: 59.2%. Across all 13 games would be ranked 29th.
TD percentage: 4.1%. Across 13 games would be ranked 22nd.
INT percentage: 2.0%. Across 13 games would be ranked 7th.
QB rating: 93.0. Across 13 games would be ranked 14th.
YPA: 7.09. Across 13 games would be ranked 20th.December 15, 2014 at 1:59 am #13898
znhaterBlockedI’ll say this, if hill is the starter next season, the rams are in big trouble. I tried to get on the hill wagon, but last week showed how bad he can be. I think the rams could do much better and i really hope they do.
December 15, 2014 at 10:54 pm #13944
MackeyserModeratorSorry, R4, but grading a QB by how he performs against that Cards D isn’t going to do anyone any good. Might as well project Aaron Rodgers by how he fared against Buffalo.
Pretty sure he’s not gonna throw 0TDs and 2 Ints every game even against tough Ds. I’m CERTAIN that the Packers aren’t looking QB in the draft…
And Buffalo dominated him for the most part…even though had Jordy Nelson caught that one pass, the game may have still been totally different.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
December 15, 2014 at 11:26 pm #13948znhaterBlockedSo now we are comparing Hill to Rodgers? Not a good comparison.
December 16, 2014 at 1:06 am #13951
Eternal RamnationParticipantI don’t know about the numbers but after watching the Washington game Hill was not at all impressive in my view anyway.Looks like the same thing that happened to Davis when he started playing against good Defenses, they have recent film on him now. When he gets rattled he throws way too high and ball security goes to shit. A number of the “good throws” were in reality great plays by Britt and Bailey on poorly thrown balls.Vermeil said backups can have a good game or two but to win consistently you need more talent at the QB position. He also said they should get rid of Long because he gave up the hit that took Bradford out.
December 16, 2014 at 1:45 am #13954znModeratorI don’t know about the numbers but after watching the Washington game Hill was not at all impressive in my view anyway.Looks like the same thing that happened to Davis when he started playing against good Defenses, they have recent film on him now. When he gets rattled he throws way too high and ball security goes to shit. A number of the “good throws” were in reality great plays by Britt and Bailey on poorly thrown balls.Vermeil said backups can have a good game or two but to win consistently you need more talent at the QB position. He also said they should get rid of Long because he gave up the hit that took Bradford out. </span></span>
It is true that the ARz defense got to the Rams OL and that had an effect on Hill. But from what I saw, nothing about it was Davis level. And in fact all that happened there, to me, was that a defense that matches up well with the Rams offense did to Hill what the Rams defense did to Manning this year and Luck last year.
Not that Hill is Luck or Manning, but he is better than that one game. Evidence of that was the way they broke out late in the 4th and drove on ARz, and that included some timely sharp throws from Hill. It wasn’t enough that game, but he did not melt down Davis style.
December 16, 2014 at 1:56 am #13956MackeyserModeratorSo now we are comparing Hill to Rodgers? Not a good comparison.
Now, that’s not what I was saying and you know it.
I was saying that if you are going to Grade a QB by how he performs against a D that routinely doesn’t allow QBs to perform well, then you’re going to get a skewed picture.
I mean if Defense A allows opposing QBs an avg QB rating of only 56 and none higher than 63, than that means that they’ve been pretty successful at mitigating that position from having much success. So, grading ANY QB based solely on how they perform against THAT defense will give you a skewed outlook because very few defenses can accomplish this.
My point in bringing up Aaron Rodgers was that he just happened to come up on one such defense. And it would be silly to judge HIM based on HIS performance against the Bills defense.
I wasn’t saying that Rodgers and Hill were equals or even in the same Tier of QB. I was saying that REGARDLESS of Tier, QBs can and do have bad games against good defenses and to judge them solely based on THAT, when the entire league isn’t made up of such defenses is a bit disingenuous.
Or to put it in your terms, if last week showed us how bad Hill can be, well okay, but it also showed us how bad Rodgers can be.
The difference is that Rodgers has far more upside than Hill so that one game isn’t being over-considered. Hill has more talent than most fans give him credit.
He has a winning record as a starting QB, for instance. Those same teams when not starting him? Badly losing record. He clearly improves those around him. So, Hill is a capable starter. Which he has proven again and again.
Now, is he a franchise QB? No. But he’s certainly not worse than Trent Dilfer, for example, with whom the Ravens won a Super Bowl.
Hill’s problem on Thursday night wasn’t Hill. It was exactly two people… Davin Joseph and Scott Wells. Had those two guys held up, we win that game.
It’s really that simple. No QB wins with that much pressure in their face that often. Hill took shots that reminded me of Warner back there. He’s double tough. So I don’t really fault him for throwing a duck or two at the end of the game. The fact that he was standing at all should shock and amaze Rams fans.
When was the last time we had a QB who could play even a lick who could take that kind of abuse? I mean since Bulger?
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
December 16, 2014 at 3:44 am #13957znhaterBlockedRams4life wrote:
So now we are comparing Hill to Rodgers? Not a good comparison.Now, that’s not what I was saying and you know it.
I was saying that if you are going to Grade a QB by how he performs against a D that routinely doesn’t allow QBs to perform well, then you’re going to get a skewed picture.
I mean if Defense A allows opposing QBs an avg QB rating of only 56 and none higher than 63, than that means that they’ve been pretty successful at mitigating that position from having much success. So, grading ANY QB based solely on how they perform against THAT defense will give you a skewed outlook because very few defenses can accomplish this.
My point in bringing up Aaron Rodgers was that he just happened to come up on one such defense. And it would be silly to judge HIM based on HIS performance against the Bills defense.
I wasn’t saying that Rodgers and Hill were equals or even in the same Tier of QB. I was saying that REGARDLESS of Tier, QBs can and do have bad games against good defenses and to judge them solely based on THAT, when the entire league isn’t made up of such defenses is a bit disingenuous.
Or to put it in your terms, if last week showed us how bad Hill can be, well okay, but it also showed us how bad Rodgers can be.
The difference is that Rodgers has far more upside than Hill so that one game isn’t being over-considered. Hill has more talent than most fans give him credit.
He has a winning record as a starting QB, for instance. Those same teams when not starting him? Badly losing record. He clearly improves those around him. So, Hill is a capable starter. Which he has proven again and again.
Now, is he a franchise QB? No. But he’s certainly not worse than Trent Dilfer, for example, with whom the Ravens won a Super Bowl.
Hill’s problem on Thursday night wasn’t Hill. It was exactly two people… Davin Joseph and Scott Wells. Had those two guys held up, we win that game.
It’s really that simple. No QB wins with that much pressure in their face that often. Hill took shots that reminded me of Warner back there. He’s double tough. So I don’t really fault him for throwing a duck or two at the end of the game. The fact that he was standing at all should shock and amaze Rams fans.
When was the last time we had a QB who could play even a lick who could take that kind of abuse? I mean since Bulger?
Fair enough. But we are talking about a guy that’s been in the league for 13 years and has never been anyone’s starter. If u are saying the rams should bring him back to be the starter next season, i couldn’t disagree more. He may be tough as u say, but the team would just be setting themselves up to fail… Again.
Same with Bradford. The rams need some new blood. These guys aren’t winning games. This isn’t the 80’s when u could start fringe players like Jeff kemp at QB and still make the playoffs with a strong running game and defense.
I just want them to start winning again. Bottom line. Tired of being served the kool aide year in and year out only to get the same result for 10 years.December 16, 2014 at 10:02 am #13962znModeratorBut we are talking about a guy that’s been in the league for 13 years and has never been anyone’s starter. If u are saying the rams should bring him back to be the starter next season, i couldn’t disagree more.
Well I am not saying he should be “brought back as the starter” and I don’t think Mack is either. He should be brought back though since next year is going to be interesting in terms of the qb situation. And having an experienced qb who knows the system and the players would be a plus.
In terms of his 13 years, I don’t judge that…sometimes a guy ends up in the right place at the right time and comes through. For example, the last time Hill got several consecutive starts, 2010 in Detroit, the Lions had a below average defense and no running game. It’s true that Hill has streaky accuracy. But IMO he makes up for that by being smart about the game.
I think the difference between Bradford and Hill, while there are a lot of them, can be reduced to this: if Bradford has a healthy OL and a running threat, whether or not the run game is working in a given game, he can play. Hill needs both the healthy OL AND for the run game to be working.
The rookie they will bring in? Who knows yet.
I think Hill is the best #2 qb they’ve had since Green in 2000 and Bulger in 2002. (Though both were better than Hill.)
I would not trust the qb to be pushed into the situation of being a consecutive games starter if it were Jamie Martin, AJ Feeley, Kellen Clemens, Kyle Boller, etc. But Hill, to me, is a cut above that.
So I agree with Mack that the ARz game tripped him up, but to me it didn’t “expose him” per se the way Davis was exposed, for example. I expect him to bounce back, at least against the Giants (I don’t know about Seattle on the road but we’ll see).
December 16, 2014 at 11:06 am #13966
GreatRamNTheSkyParticipantI think Hill sucks. He has a tendency to make the big mistake. Perfect examples is the end of the Chargers game and the last drive in the Cardinals game last Thursday. Hill absolutely cost the Rams a win over the Cardinals last Thursday with his horrible inaccurate passing. Little things a veteran does? Really? What a bunch of crap. Throw accurrate passes and make good decisions. Neither of which I saw from Hill last Thursday.
Grits
December 16, 2014 at 1:59 pm #13979znModeratorI think Hill sucks. He has a tendency to make the big mistake. Perfect examples is the end of the Chargers game and the last drive in the Cardinals game last Thursday.
You didn’t name the perfect examples, Grits, you named the only examples.
Meanwhile, he played well against a top D (Denver) and in fact has played decently overall.
December 16, 2014 at 3:23 pm #13988MackeyserModeratorI think “sucks” is really strong and, in my humble opinion, should be reserved for the really poorest performing players…
You know… like Scott Wells, who by almost any metric is about the worst starting Center in the entire NFL. Actually, he’s ranked 39th out of 40 and has spent time at the very bottom.
Were it not for a couple of decent games, Davin Joseph would be right there with him.
Hill, isn’t in that “sucks” Tier. Not as I define suckitude ™, anyway.
Now, if you wanna just lash out at the QB who should be able to make plays no matter how the OL plays…well, then that’s just fandom stuff without much rational basis. It’s perfectly fine, but where you go, I cannot follow…
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
December 17, 2014 at 12:43 am #14023Eternal RamnationParticipantEternal Ramnation wrote:
I don’t know about the numbers but after watching the Washington game Hill was not at all impressive in my view anyway.Looks like the same thing that happened to Davis when he started playing against good Defenses, they have recent film on him now. When he gets rattled he throws way too high and ball security goes to shit. A number of the “good throws” were in reality great plays by Britt and Bailey on poorly thrown balls.Vermeil said backups can have a good game or two but to win consistently you need more talent at the QB position. He also said they should get rid of Long because he gave up the hit that took Bradford out.It is true that the ARz defense got to the Rams OL and that had an effect on Hill. But from what I saw, nothing about it was Davis level. And in fact all that happened there, to me, was that a defense that matches up well with the Rams offense did to Hill what the Rams defense did to Manning this year and Luck last year.
Not that Hill is Luck or Manning, but he is better than that one game. Evidence of that was the way they broke out late in the 4th and drove on ARz, and that included some timely sharp throws from Hill. It wasn’t enough that game, but he did not melt down Davis style.
I agree zn, I did not mean he had a melt down only that he came back to Earth once teams got some film on him. He is a very good backup but , he is definitely a back up
December 17, 2014 at 12:54 am #14024znhaterBlockedI think “sucks” is really strong and, in my humble opinion, should be reserved for the really poorest performing players…
You know… like Scott Wells, who by almost any metric is about the worst starting Center in the entire NFL. Actually, he’s ranked 39th out of 40 and has spent time at the very bottom.
Were it not for a couple of decent games, Davin Joseph would be right there with him.
Hill, isn’t in that “sucks” Tier. Not as I define suckitude ™, anyway.
Now, if you wanna just lash out at the QB who should be able to make plays no matter how the OL plays…well, then that’s just fandom stuff without much rational basis. It’s perfectly fine, but where you go, I cannot follow…
I get that the line play was awful Thursday, but I’m talking about the San Diego game. The fumble was bad, but the goal line int was unforgivable imo. They at least have a tie with a chance to win in ot. I’ve seen enough of him to know i don’t want him starting a game. I would even go as far as saying i would start Davis the rest of the way and see what he has left. At least he has upside.
December 17, 2014 at 1:29 am #14025znModeratorSee what we have summoned.
That’s right. Board war.
Kidding of course. Hill is controversial at this point and there are clashing views of him. I think it’s interesting to see those contrasting views.
I wonder where folks will stand after the next 2 games.
I think he will bounce back to around the 88-90 qb rating level.
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