our reactions to the Saints game

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  • This topic has 31 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 12 months ago by Avatar photozn.
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  • #147748
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Stafford, Williams, Nacua.

    Stafford keeps making these crazy throws under pressure. I wish I was one of those “make youtubes” guys because I would put together a long list of those kinds of throws, all from after the bye

    I didn’t like the Saints adding points late, that stuff’s gotta stop

    #147762
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    yeah stafford with some crazy throws.  nacua with some crazy catches – at least one wild catch.  williams steady.  he’s the metronome that keeps this offense in rhythm.

     

    special teams gets an f.  missed fg.  blocked punt.  not good at all.

     

    this is a young team,  maybe it’s concentration lapses, but they gotta close out games better.

    #147764
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    As I said last week, need to close out games, and have to wonder, if we are going to get a new Special Teams Coordinator.

    #147765
    Hram
    Participant

    Good game.   Three legit WRs, a really good RB, an excellent QB and the defense did well against the run and got some decent pressure at times.

    DBs need another year of experience and we probably want to upgrade.  A legit edge rusher would also make a huge difference.

    Other than that, just need to be more accurate on field goals, more TDs in the red zone and do a little better job blocking for punts.

    #147766
    Avatar photocanadaram
    Participant

    I’m still trying to figure out how Nacua made that sliding catch with the defender’s arm across his chest. A rookie sensation indeed. Stafford is absolutely stellar right now.  Another Kyren TD.

    I despise the Rams special teams play right now. Extremely bothersome to know that the offense can be fantastic and the defense can be good enough, but the special teams can throw it all away.

    It’s the end of December and the Rams are a game over .500 and in the playoff hunt. Did not see this coming back in August.

    #147767
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    Yes, Stafford made great throws and created / extended plays .  He’s been playing great.

    Jones early sack got the defense rolling

    Fuller’s pick kind of sealed it.

    Saints don’t quit, they had late game fireworks against the Lions and Jags that came up short. Saints are not a bad team.

    Rams looking pretty complete….. but do you folks have confidence in this kicker? Not me.

     

    #147768
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    yeah stafford with some crazy throws.

    The crowd is not yelling “fuucck you!” They’re chanting “Matth-yew!”

    #147775
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Sloppy play from the punt block to the TD two plays later, but otherwise the Rams owned the Saints pretty much the whole game.

    Saw Durant give up the TD which reminded me I hadn’t seen #1 out there all night.

    This team is getting it done. Gave up 35 yards rushing total, 19 to Kamara. Saints leaned heavily into the passing game all night. And they went for it on 4th down early and often. It’s like they knew they were giving up 30, and planned for a shootout.

    Now they get to enjoy the holidays while everyone else is working. Get a nice rest, and off to the big apple.

    Sorry we didn’t get to see Wentz.

    #147812
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I’m guessing like most fans, we’re reassessing who this team is. They’re lot closer to serious contention than we thought at the beginning of the year. Ironically, that change means they also need to readjust their idea of their “three key guys” core.

    Kupp really doesn’t seem to be a part of that now, going forward. He hasn’t played well, though I think he has plenty of excuses. It’s not for lack of trying, obviously; he’s always punched well above his weight. He’s just banged up, and getting older for a receiver. Post-30, with exceptions, typically marks a decline for that position. QBs, of course, keep rewriting all the rules, and Stafford looks like a part of the Brady trend there. Though I still wish he’d redo his workout regimen, and get serious about weight-training. That’s one of the best ways for athletes to extend their careers, including QBs.

    Nacua has earned the Kupp spot as a “core three” guy, as has Williams. Which, in effect, means the Rams have a core four now. Stafford, Donald, Nacua, and Williams. Ernest Jones is on the edge of that group. Just outside of it. Likely next-up close: Avila, Dotson, Turner. Young is a keeper, too, but needs some work, hitting the “rookie wall” as some pundits have mentioned. Demarcus Robinson played lights out last night, and the Rams need to re-sign him (as well as Dotson), but he’s gonna be 30 next season, so he’s a “future is now” guy for the Rams. Watching his quick feet and surprising agility, I can see now why they rave about his ability to gain separation. He’s just thriving under McVay.

    IMO, the Rams need serious upgrades at corner, safety, and slot, plus edge. A true stud LT as well. If they can manage most of those upgrades this off-season, especially LT, edge, and corner, they’re back in the hunt in 2024.

    #147814
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well, that was F’ing awesome.    Holding Kamara to 19 yards?  Are you kidding me.

    And now a mini-bye.

    This is one of the most intriguing Ram-teams, i can remember.

    The changes McVay made in the running game have been startlingly successful.

     

    w

    v

     

    #147815
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Oh, and I’ll repeat something — this team has some beautiful drives.  Just a beautiful mix of passes and runs, short stuff, deep stuff, sideline stuff.   There’s a sports-beauty to it.

     

    Starts with Stafford, though.   He’s Picasso.

     

    w

    v

    #147816
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    Kupp really doesn’t seem to be a part of that now, going forward.

     

    i don’t know. he’s still averaging 64.5 yards per game and he’s playing injured. part of me thinks he just needs an off-season to get his body right. it’s been a problem since preseason and he really hasn’t gotten the chance to get right. still over a 17 game season that’s still good for a 1000 yard season.

     

    on the other hand this team hasn’t been shy about just getting rid of people when they don’t feel they are making this team better or if they see an opportunity to get some value out of him while they can. so could i see them trading kupp in the off-season for some draft picks? like a mid round pick. would that get them extra cap space? if so i could totally see them do that and draft another receiver and try to develop him. i would not put anything past mcsnead. they are ruthless.

    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    #147818
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i mean i know everyone knows the names. gurley, woods, goff, ramsey, etc…

     

    the more i think about it yeah. the rams totally would but would it even be possible cap wise?

    #147819
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    i mean i know everyone knows the names. gurley, woods, goff, ramsey, etc… the more i think about it yeah. the rams totally would but would it even be possible cap wise?

    If the Rams cut or traded Kupp this off-season which IMO they’re not going to do (that’s just an opinion):

    Pre-June 1 cut: 47 M dead money, including a 0 savings & 17.2 M deficit

    Post-June 1 cut: 29.7 dead money, 0 savings

    Pre-June 1 trade: 27 M dead money, 2.7 M savings

    Post-June 1 trade: 9.7 M dead money, 20 M savings

    Remember Stafford was beat up last year, and many spoke of him as if it were the end,  but look at him now. Kupp IMO just needs an off-season to straighten out. Again this is all opinion, but, they’re not going to find another WR who  draws the attention he does, understands the offense at such a high level, all while also being a first-rate blocker. Even in a diminished role with shorter routes and less being asked of him, Kupp can be valuable.

    When Gurley’s knee went full arthritic, he had less to offer as a player, and basically was nowhere near as useful anymore. Whatever is going on with Kupp, it’s not like that–it just takes away part of his game but he still has a lot of value.

    #147834
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    When Gurley’s knee went full arthritic, he had less to offer as a player, and basically was nowhere near as useful anymore. Whatever is going on with Kupp, it’s not like that–it just takes away part of his game but he still has a lot of value.

     

    my opinion is that they wouldn’t either but i can’t predict what this fo will do. i thought they’d stick with goff but then they went and traded him for stafford. i’m just saying i wouldn’t put it out of the realm of possibility. especially if they could save 20 million and they figure they’ll get a draft pick out of it and they could spend that twenty million elsewhere. and do they ask themselves is what kupp offers worth the twenty million they would save while also covering up enough of what they lose without kupp given that they have nacua and williams? i don’t know. they’ve said themselves in the past that they will look at every possible… i can’t remember the exact term. i know rodrigue talked about it extensively after the superbowl… anyway. if they don’t believe that kupp’s value is worth what they pay him and they can cover up what they lose in other ways i could see them doing that.

     

    do i think they will? i have a hard time imagining it. but this fo is known for doing some unconventional things.

    #147835
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    oh yeah. i remember the term now. market inefficiencies.

    #147838
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    do i think they will? i have a hard time imagining it. but this fo is known for doing some unconventional things.

    Yeah it’s not an unreasonable argument by any means. And you guys (you and BT) make a valid case.

    It’s just that fwiw, I’m just a bit more on the other side of the line on this one.

    #147858
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    ZN,

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying they should trade him, much less cut him outright. I’m saying I don’t think he’s a part of their “core” any longer, which he certainly was after the Super Bowl. I also think he holds more value for the Rams than they’d likely get for him in trade, but that hasn’t stopped the Rams in the past from trading away players. IMO, they’ve done that several times at fire-sales prices, and it’s frustrated me as a fan. I may be misreading the tea leaves, but Kupp’s body language on the field tells me he’s not happy, and that, along with his age and injuries, may well trigger a move by the Rams this off-season. They have (IMO) a bad habit of trying to please players when it comes to finding them new homes if they want them. It would have been unthinkable after the Super Bowl. It won’t surprise me if it happens in 2024.

    This season has surpassed all fan expectations, and I’d bet McSnead’s, too. Have enjoyed watching their resurgence tremendously. It’s actually been a lot of fun and hope-filled. But I still think they’ve made some unforced errors along the way. Looking from the outside in, I wouldn’t have let Wagner go, for instance, nor would I have traded Ramsey for so little, or let Lewis and Burgess walk for nothing. So I’m in agreement with Invader regarding this FO. It’s really not alien for them to make a move like that. Ramsey, for instance, was a “core” guy too and they traded him for peanuts.

    I don’t want them to move on from Kupp, and I’d hate for them to do a fire-sale or cut him. But if a team offered them a 1st — not gonna happen now — I’d have to take it.

    Jourdan was right, in my view: The time to have made major moves was after the Super Bowl, while they were flying high and their players held serious value. It’s kinda too late now, unless some team just blows them away with crazy offers, including taking on salary, etc. Better to keep this rebuild going via strong drafts and smart FA pickups, etc.

    #147859
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Trying to boil this down into a Hack-sized post:

    Don’t want them to trade or cut Kupp, and I think he still holds a great deal of value for the Rams. They’re stronger with him than without him, and an off-season to regain health and focus may do wonders. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the FO decides to move on from a 31-year-old receiver, who’s taken his share of hits, all too many of them “cheap shots” in my book.

     

    #147863
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Trying to boil this down into a Hack-sized post: Don’t want them to trade or cut Kupp, and I think he still holds a great deal of value for the Rams. They’re stronger with him than without him, and an off-season to regain health and focus may do wonders. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the FO decides to move on from a 31-year-old receiver, who’s taken his share of hits, all too many of them “cheap shots” in my book.

     

    I would think it depends on what their expectations for next year.   If they think they have a shot at another ring next year or the year after that — then they keep Kupp and Nakua and Higby together for a couple more years.

    Just looks like now, they only need to really work on the defense.   Probly have a solid two year window on offense, I’d think.

     

    w

    v

    #147872
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Trying to boil this down into a Hack-sized post: Don’t want them to trade or cut Kupp, and I think he still holds a great deal of value for the Rams. They’re stronger with him than without him, and an off-season to regain health and focus may do wonders. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the FO decides to move on from a 31-year-old receiver, who’s taken his share of hits, all too many of them “cheap shots” in my book.

    I would think it depends on what their expectations for next year. If they think they have a shot at another ring next year or the year after that — then they keep Kupp and Nakua and Higby together for a couple more years. Just looks like now, they only need to really work on the defense. Probly have a solid two year window on offense, I’d think. w v

     

    Makes sense, WV. Two years sounds about right, especially for Stafford, Kupp, and Higbee meshing well with the youngins.

    Find a granite-block LT, re-sign Dotson, keep Williams healthy, and — my own preference — find a battering Ram to join him, and they’ll be golden.

    Agree about the D. They need a lot more speed, especially at DB. Obviously, an edge who scares OCs would be great, and Bobby Brown could use some help at the nose. You can usually find good run-stuffers late in the draft . . . So it’s doable.

    In short, I was wrong about this team, going into the year. Thought they were several players (and years) away from contending again. After seeing them the last three games, especially, I think they’re really close. Should grab a Wild Card this year, and with the right decisions and player development, it’s not a stretch to think of them in the hunt for the Lombardi in 2024.

    #147873
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i hope they sign danielle hunter.  the vikings can’t tag him in the offseason.  but he’s gonna cost a lot of cash.  rams have been willing to spend a lot in the past for the right player though.  having a great season so far.  but him paired with young on the edges.  draft a defensive lineman.  some more defensive backs?

    #147875
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Free agency is not necessarily going to be the big gift many (including me) hoped for.

    If they can unload Noteboom and Allen they can get up to 20 M more than the 40-something they will already have, but 60-something M isn’t going to be enough to land an impactful expensive FA plus sign all of the following Rams UFAs:

    Witherspoon
    Dotson
    Robinson
    Shelton

    Plus Jackson is an RFA

    That list includes 3/5ths of their current OL.

    The key will be the draft plus being smart again (as they were in 2023) about signing cuts, “ronin,” and bargain FAs. As for big signings–their own guys and/or a big market FA–they will have to be selective.

     

    #147887
    Avatar photoEternal Ramnation
    Participant

    That was really fun to watch! I was nervous because everyone was taking the Rams but when the offense is clicking like that they can’t be stopped. Robinson is so good makes me think they got the wrong Robinson last year.

    #147890
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    Witherspoon

    Dotson

    Robinson

    Shelton

    Plus Jackson is an RFA

     

    at first i was all for bringing back dotson. but i’m actually wondering now if they should just let him go. re-sign jackson for sure. witherspoon too. robinson and shelton – i guess it depends on what kind of contract they would command. but i’d want to see if i could snag a big time fa on defense rather than all on dotson, robinson, and shelton. maybe bring shelton and let dotson and robinson go. draft or sign an under the radar wr. draft or sign an under the radar olineman.

     

    in the draft i would concentrate on defense and oline.

    #147891
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    at first i was all for bringing back dotson. but i’m actually wondering now if they should just let him go. re-sign jackson for sure. witherspoon too. robinson and shelton – i guess it depends on what kind of contract they would command. but i’d want to see if i could snag a big time fa on defense rather than all on dotson, robinson, and shelton. maybe bring shelton and let dotson and robinson go. draft or sign an under the radar wr. draft or sign an under the radar olineman.

    What happened was, over.the.cap was estimating the cap to be higher in 2024, and then they had to revise their estimation. 2024 will not take as huge a leap in terms of cap space as many were expecting.

    But then as you point out, that just means the Rams have to make some solid choices–they can still add to this team.

    Here’s what they were good at in 2023 and it’s not hard to assume they can keep being good at it.

    • Draft picks. They have 11 in 2024. They could trade down and get a couple more. I wonder if they had a self-assessment on the personnel side of the office too, to go along with McVay’s self-assessment and changes. Avila is the best 2nd round pick in the entire McSnead era. If this is the case, then maybe we can heavily count on what a new 1st and 2nd rounder will bring. They’ve always been good at lower round drafting.
    • “Ronin”. They absolutely hit on very good players other teams cut (Witherspoon, Robinson) or bargain-traded (Dotson). They can always churn up more surprises this way. Plus, this is a coaching/culture thing too. For example, it’s possible that Ryan Wendell is the best OL coach they’ve had in a long time, and they have had some good ones.
    • High market free agency? They have some choices to make between keeping their own and adding someone new, but hopefully they re-assessed things after the disastroous signing of Alan Robinson in 2022 and they can make something work here.
    • The 2023 draft and signings. Draft picks usually don’t do a lot as rookies. Many did in 2023, partly because they were just plain handed the opportunity, but then you have to wonder who hasn’t stepped up yet. Who else do they have? Bennett? Hampton? Tomlinson? Mathis? Johnson? For that matter– from 2022, Bruss? Durant? Someone who isn’t even on our radar yet?
    • They’re more experienced. An extension of the last point. Think of the team before and then after the bye and how much progress they made. Well they can make even more before the 24 season. An example of this–no matter how good Nacua and Williams have been, both did have young player mistakes in 23. Remember Wms setting up an INT because he looked at the defense before looking the ball into his hands? 2 fumbles in one game? And Nacua has drops, blocking mistakes where he was out of position, and he’s actually not yet a consistently good route runner (believe it or not). So who else will refine their game some more during this off-season and coming summer? Jackson? Alvila? Allen? Zach Evans? Lake?
    #147895
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    So who else will refine their game some more during this off-season and coming summer? Jackson? Alvila? Allen? Zach Evans? Lake?

     

    that’s probably what i’m most excited about. how these young players develop. sure they could regress. you can have injuries. but at least in the case of avila, young, nacua, turner, and williams, i don’t see any letdown in terms of work ethic or mental toughness or intelligence. they seem to draft some pretty high character guys. even in the case of older but still young guys like jackson i still see them getting better. they’re entering the prime years. dotson. i’d love to see him come back, but the rams have been successful in the past making similar acquisitions. there was that browns guard they traded for a couple years back who made a similar contribution. austin corbett. i’m sure the fo and staff have a list of guys they follow.

     

    but if they have eleven picks i’m thinking they can draft a third wr to replace robinson. they still have atwell who regressed a little bit but looked much better than his rookie year. add a bunch of bodies at oline through draft, bargain fa, and trades and just see what develops. i read a tweet talking about how dotson regressed with hav out of the lineup and picked up again when he was back in the lineup which makes me wonder if he isn’t necessarily the difference maker he appears to be. regardless i have a lot more faith in the fo these days to make the right decision. although yes it’s possible they have some duds like robinson in the past.

    • This reply was modified 12 months ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    • This reply was modified 12 months ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    #147904
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Here’s what they were good at in 2023 and it’s not hard to assume they can keep being good at it.

    Yeah, I dunno. 2023 is going to grow into a legend on this board, I think. This is easily the greatest off-season this century, and arguably since some of those drafts in the early 70s. The only year that could give it a fight would be ’99, when they got Trent Green, Torry Holt, and Marshall Faulk. I think they got Dre’ Bly that year, too.

    As you acknowledge, their 2nd-round pick history is checkered, at best, and they have no history of 1st-round picks. They have also have some moves that they’ve botched, Allen Robinson being the most recent example. I’m not sure they “figured it out,” so much as just had a hot streak.

    There is plenty of evidence, however, that they are better than most teams at evaluating talent, and getting the “right” type of players, both for their schematic needs, and for the culture. (They also get rid of guys who don’t fit).

    I just happen to think that they did so damn well this year that even if this coming off-season is just average for them, they are on pace to be one of the top 3 or 4 favorites going into next season. They are going to get a lot of primetime games on their schedule next year.

    Anyway, 11 draft picks is a lot. Not only could they acquire more, as you point out, they might also do the unprecedented, and package some of those picks to move up. I mean, if they could snag both an OT and and Edge that they really, really like in the early part of the draft, they might do that. Or a CB. Or they might package those picks in a trade for some stud on the last year of his contract (Brian Burns?).

    I tell you what, though. We have ourselves a damn good storyline going on right in front of us. This has been a famously fun season, and the future looks pretty goddam good.

    They had better beat the Giants. That’s all I can say. I’m emotionally invested in this team right now, and I am looking for a payday.

    #147906
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I remember when the Houston Oilers built a very good team.   Onliest problem was the Steelers had built a super-team.

     

    I hope the McSnead-Rams dont end up being the Houston Oilers over the next few years.

    Cuz, the 49ers look like they built a super-team.

     

    We must burn sage and manifest crippling injuries for that north-calif team.

     

    w

    v

    #147912
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    We must burn sage and manifest crippling injuries for that north-calif team.

    I’m on it.

    I am up to date on the latest meditation/curse techniques.

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