Did McCain bomb a civilian light bulb factory?

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  • August 28, 2018 at 9:21 am #89954
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    The official story is that McCain was bombing a power plant when he was shot down and captured but I’ve seen several unsourced references that he was actually bombing a civilian light bulb factory….

    Link: https://www.mintpressnews.com/other-side-john-mccain/248233/

    “During the Vietnam war, McCain had been captured by the North Vietnamese Army after being shot down on his way to bomb a civilian lightbulb factory.”

    • This topic was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by nittany ram.
    • This topic was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by nittany ram.
    August 28, 2018 at 10:23 am #89958
    zn
    Moderator

    John McCain bombed a Vietnamese light bulb factory killing 1000s of innocent civilians before he was captured.

    One A4 light bomber delivering its payload is not going to kill 1000s, if in fact there even is a lightbulb factory anywhere that actually employs 1000s.

    I mean I know who McCain is, and I cast a dark eye on his politics too.

    But jeesh, don’t spew made up hyperbolic nonsense, leave that to the righties. The truth is good enough on its own.

    ….

    August 28, 2018 at 10:25 am #89959
    wv
    Participant

    Dummed-down, distracted, propagandized, Americans dont have a problem with bombing ‘others,’ in general. As you know.

    bombing vietnam:https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/public-opinion-approves-bombing-of-north-vietnam

    —————
    1966
    Public opinion approves bombing of North Vietnam

    A Harris survey taken shortly after the bombing raids on the Hanoi-Haiphong area shows that 62 percent of those interviewed favored the raids, 11 percent were opposed, and 27 percent were undecided. Of those polled, 86 percent felt the raids would hasten the end of the war. The raids under discussion were part of the expansion of Operation Rolling Thunder, which had begun in March 1965.
    ————

    August 28, 2018 at 11:07 am #89960
    Zooey
    Moderator
    zn wrote:

    John McCain bombed a Vietnamese light bulb factory killing 1000s of innocent civilians before he was captured.

    One A4 light bomber delivering its payload is not going to kill 1000s, if in fact there even is a lightbulb factory anywhere that actually employs 1000s.

    I mean I know who McCain is, and I cast a dark eye on his politics too.

    But jeesh, don’t spew made up hyperbolic nonsense, leave that to the righties. The truth is good enough on its own.

    ….

    My thoughts exactly.

    Had that number been 17, it would have been believable and just as damning.

    I don’t understand using transparent lies to bolster a political argument (or any argument). It completely undermines confidence in the entire argument.

    August 28, 2018 at 1:31 pm #89968
    nittany ram
    Moderator
    zn wrote:

    John McCain bombed a Vietnamese light bulb factory killing 1000s of innocent civilians before he was captured.

    One A4 light bomber delivering its payload is not going to kill 1000s, if in fact there even is a lightbulb factory anywhere that actually employs 1000s.

    I mean I know who McCain is, and I cast a dark eye on his politics too.

    But jeesh, don’t spew made up hyperbolic nonsense, leave that to the righties. The truth is good enough on its own.

    ….

    I thought “1000s” was hyperbole too. I’m not endorsing this I’m just wondering if there is anything to the light bulb factory story. That’s not exactly a military target.

    August 28, 2018 at 1:38 pm #89969
    zn
    Moderator
    nittany ram wrote:
    zn wrote:

    John McCain bombed a Vietnamese light bulb factory killing 1000s of innocent civilians before he was captured.

    One A4 light bomber delivering its payload is not going to kill 1000s, if in fact there even is a lightbulb factory anywhere that actually employs 1000s.

    I mean I know who McCain is, and I cast a dark eye on his politics too.

    But jeesh, don’t spew made up hyperbolic nonsense, leave that to the righties. The truth is good enough on its own.

    ….

    I thought “1000s” was hyperbole too. I’m not endorsing this I’m just wondering if there is anything to the light bulb factory story. That’s not exactly a military target.

    Most air wars do not go after exclusively military targets. Heck it was British and American air war policy in WW 2 to directly target the civilian populations of Germany and Japan. More people were killed in the fire bombing of Tokyo than were killed in Hiroshima. For that matter if MacCain did hit a power plant, that’s a civilian target too, and it would have a greater impact on more civilians if they took out power. So I am not moved by any of that. It’s not like the pilot personally picks the targets.

    It was Vietnam. Bad all the way around. One target give or take doesn’t mean much.

    …

    August 28, 2018 at 2:37 pm #89971
    Zooey
    Moderator

    What I found of interest before the 1,000s threw me off was the assertion that he was ordered back, but carried on and bombed the place anyway.

    This detail makes scant difference to most of us who are more concerned with his support of American militarism, especially in the Middle East, but it’s an interesting claim.

    August 28, 2018 at 2:59 pm #89974
    zn
    Moderator
    Zooey wrote:

    What I found of interest before the 1,000s threw me off was the assertion that he was ordered back, but carried on and bombed the place anyway.

    Even if that were true, and it sounds completely bogus, how would anyone know about it?

    I can see a raid being called off here and there but jeesh, a pilot refusing to listen?

    That;s some made-up bs.

    August 28, 2018 at 5:02 pm #89985
    Zooey
    Moderator
    zn wrote:
    Zooey wrote:

    What I found of interest before the 1,000s threw me off was the assertion that he was ordered back, but carried on and bombed the place anyway.

    Even if that were true, and it sounds completely bogus, how would anyone know about it?

    I can see a raid being called off here and there but jeesh, a pilot refusing to listen?

    That;s some made-up bs.

    Yeah, but you probably don’t believe that 9/11 was an inside job, either.

    August 28, 2018 at 5:06 pm #89986
    zn
    Moderator
    Zooey wrote:

    Yeah, but you probably don’t believe that 9/11 was an inside job, either.

    No I don’t.

    However, I think people have made a good case for Pearl Harbor being an inside job.

    …

    August 28, 2018 at 6:25 pm #89989
    Zooey
    Moderator

    The only way anyone could know that McCain continued on to his target after being called back would be if there was someone else on the plane who witnessed it, survived the crash, survived being a POW, and then told the story after the war.

    As improbable as that is, it’s possible, I suppose, but I would think that would have a record outside of Nina Illingsworth’s tweet.

    August 28, 2018 at 6:51 pm #89990
    zn
    Moderator
    Zooey wrote:

    The only way anyone could know that McCain continued on to his target after being called back would be if there was someone else on the plane who witnessed it, survived the crash, survived being a POW, and then told the story after the war.

    And the A4 Skyhawk was a single seater.

    August 28, 2018 at 7:16 pm #89991
    nittany ram
    Moderator
    Zooey wrote:

    The only way anyone could know that McCain continued on to his target after being called back would be if there was someone else on the plane who witnessed it, survived the crash, survived being a POW, and then told the story after the war.

    As improbable as that is, it’s possible, I suppose, but I would think that would have a record outside of Nina Illingsworth’s tweet.

    I don’t feel like trying to find the tweet now as she posts about 50 tweets a minute and this conversation was a couple days ago, but Nina Illingsworth claims that McCain admitted to proceeding to his target despite being called back to the carrier in something he wrote…memoirs or something. Doesn’t seem likely but that should be an easy thing to check.

    However, I have read that he knew that an anti-aircraft missle had locked onto him which means he should have broken off the attack and taken evasive action, but he chose to go through with it anyway because he was so close to the target and he was afraid he wouldn’t have the nerve to try it again. So, he is guilty of violating military protocol if nothing else.

    August 28, 2018 at 7:37 pm #89992
    zn
    Moderator
    nittany ram wrote:

    he knew that an anti-aircraft missle had locked onto him which means he should have broken off the attack and taken evasive action, but he chose to go through with it anyway

    Well to bring it back to the Rams, Jack Youngblood used to do that.

    August 29, 2018 at 6:14 am #90024
    nittany ram
    Moderator
    zn wrote:
    nittany ram wrote:

    he knew that an anti-aircraft missle had locked onto him which means he should have broken off the attack and taken evasive action, but he chose to go through with it anyway

    Well to bring it back to the Rams, Jack Youngblood used to do that.

    Well, yeah, Youngblood was a man’s man.

    Remember when he bombed that light bulb factory with a broken leg?

    True grit, that.

    Plus you don’t see many light bulb factories that have a broken leg.

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