Comey fired

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  • #68556
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Franken rips Sessions for encouraging Comey firing

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/332671-dem-senator-sessions-recommendation-to-fire-comey-a-complete-betrayal

    (D-Minn.) hit Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Tuesday for recommending that President Trump fire FBI Director James Comey, calling it a “complete betrayal” of his vow to recuse himself from investigations into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

    “I am also deeply troubled by the fact that Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who pledged to recuse himself from the Russia investigation because of his own Russia connections, involved himself in Director Comey’s firing,” Franken said in a statement. “This is a complete betrayal of his commitment to the public that he wouldn’t be involved in the investigation.”

    Sessions in March recused himself from any investigations into Russia’s election interference following reports he was in contact with Moscow’s U.S. envoy during the campaign.

    Trump on Tuesday said he fired Comey following the recommendations of Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, citing concerns about Comey’s judgment over the bureau’s investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails.

    However, Franken and other lawmakers suggested the firing was not related to Clinton’s emails, but the FBI’s probe into Russia’s interference in the election.

    “It is deeply troubling that President Trump just fired the person in charge of investigating his ties to Russia, and the President’s stated reasons for firing Director Comey are difficult to believe,” Franken said. “We know that the Russians interfered in the 2016 election, that they did so to undermine confidence in American democracy and that they wanted Donald Trump to become President. The intelligence community has confirmed that.”

    Franken said the White House has called its objectivity into question and advocated for an independent body to lead the U.S.-Russia investigation.

    He also called for an independent investigation, echoing Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and other lawmakers.

    #68557
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Trump fires Comey while Russia probe intensifies

    https://www.axios.com/trump-fires-comey-2400433339.html

    President Trump fired FBI Director James Comey today, saying he’d lost confidence in his ability to manage the Bureau. This capped a difficult year for Comey, whose handling of the Hillary Clinton emails drew scrutiny from both sides of the aisle in a contentious campaign.

    Shortly after Comey’s firing, CNN reported that it learned of federal subpoenas seeking business records related to Michael Flynn in the hours before Comey’s firing, in an apparent expansion of the FBI’s investigation into ties between Trump associates and Russia.

    Meanwhile, White House officials are denying that Comey’s firing had anything to do with the probe, and deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders has said it’s time to move on from the Russia investigation entirely.

    Full coverage: Concerns in the Clinton camp, comparisons to Nixon, full reaction roundup, timeline of how we got here, the patten of who Trump has fired, GOP congressman wants independent probe, the letters that got Comey fired

    Key questions and answers on Comey’s firing:

    What happened? Trump informed Comey in a letter that he was terminated “effective immediately.” CNN reports Trump’s private security guard may have delivered the letter to the FBI, but Comey is in Los Angeles. Per NYT’s Michael Schmidt, he was addressing FBI employees there when news of his firing flashed on T.V. screens in the background, and he originally thought it was a prank.
    What did Trump say? He appreciated Comey informing him “on three separate occasions that I am not under investigation” but “you are not able to effectively lead the bureau.”
    Was it really so sudden? Per Schmidt, “WH and DOJ had been working on firing Comey since at least last week. Sessions had been working to come up with reasons.”
    What happens next? Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe will serve as acting director until a permanent replacement is nominated. The position requires Senate confirmation.
    How are Democrats reacting? Many are drawing comparisons to Watergate, and Chuck Schumer is calling for an independent Russia probe.
    How are Republicans reacting? Most are lining up behind Trump but Senate Intelligence chairman Richard Burr said he was “troubled by the timing and reasoning of Director Comey’s termination.”
    What did Obama and Clinton say? “No comment,” via their spokespeople.
    The full statement from the White House:

    Today, President Donald J. Trump informed FBI Director James Comey that he has been terminated and removed from office. President Trump acted based on the clear recommendations of both Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and Attorney General Jeff Sessions.”The FBI is one of our Nation’s most cherished and respected institutions and today will mark a new beginning for our crown jewel of law enforcement,” said President Trump.A search for a new permanent FBI Director will begin immediately.

    From Trump’s letter to Comey:
    “… you are hereby terminated and removed from office, effective immediately. While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation, I nevertheless concur with the judgement of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the bureau.”

    From Sessions’ recommendation:

    “As Attorney General I am committed to a high level of discipline, integrity, and the rule of law to the department of justice- an institution that I deeply respect. Based on my evaluation, and for the reasons expressed by the deputy attorney general in the attached memorandum, I have concluded that a fresh start is needed at the leadership of the FBI.”

    From Rosenstein’s recommendation:

    “Over the past year, however, the FBI’s reputation and credibility have suffered substantial damage, and it has affected the entire department of justice….”As you and I have discussed, however, I cannot defend the director’s handling of the conclusion of the investigation of secretary Clinton’s emails, and I do not understand his refusal to accept the nearly-universal judgement that he was mistaken. Almost everyone agrees that the Director made serious mistakes; it is one of the few issues that unites people of diverse perspective.”

    #68559
    waterfield
    Participant

    Doesn’t pass the smell test. This is Nixon all over again. It surely had little if anything to do with the handling of Clinton’s emails. Comey was heading the FBI’s investigation into the Russian/Trump campaign and to fire him now-right after the testimony yesterday? Come on. And Sessions gets involved to recommend Comey’s firing after he excused himself form the DOJ’s investigation of the Russian conflict of interest issues? Again, can’t pass the smell test. Seems rather evident to anyone who cares that-at least there is the appearance of not wanting any further investigation into the Russian involvement (i.e. you help us defeat Clinton and we will take away the sanctions, etc). At worst we now for sure need a special independent prosecutor to investigate this entire matter. At least Nixon ended up doing that-forced or not. Do you think Trump will? Do you think people care? Not my employer friends who are glad regulations are being freed and their corporate taxes are being limited.

    #68561
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    We agree on all that, W.

    .

    #68562
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    CNN: Subpoenas Issued To Flynn Associates

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/05/09/cnn-subpoena-issued-to-flynn-associates?via=desktop&source=copyurl

    According to a report in CNN, federal prosecutors have issued grand jury subpoenas to associates of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. They are seeking business records as part of a larger probe into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. The news comes on the day that President Donald Trump fired FBI director James Comey. The subpoenas, which were issued in recent weeks, according to CNN, were received by associates who worked with Flynn on contracts after he was forced out as director of the Defense Intelligence Agency in 2014. Investigators have reportedly been looking into possible wrongdoing in the way in which Flynn handled disclosures about payments from clients tied to Russia and Turkey.

    According to a report in The New York Times, FBI director James Comey was addressing a group of employees in Los Angeles on Tuesday night when a television report in the background said that he was being fired by President Trump. The Times said that in response, Comey initially laughed and said it was a funny prank. His staff then reportedly ushered him into a nearby office. In the office, they confirmed to Comey that he had been fired. Shortly after that, a letter was delivered to the headquarters of the FBI informing them of the decision.

    Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said Tuesday night that FBI Director James Comey should be fired in part for his handling of the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private email server. “The current FBI director is an articulate and persuasive speaker about leadership and the immutable principles of the Department of Justice,” Rosenstein wrote in the letter to Attorney General Jeff Sessions. “He deserves our appreciation for his public service. As you and I have discussed, however, I cannot defend the Director’s handling of the conclusion of the investigation of Secretary Clinton’s emails, and I do not understand the refusal to accept the nearly university judgment that he was mistaken. Almost everyone agrees that the Director made serious mistakes; it is one of the few issues that unites people of diverse perspectives.” Sessions recommended to President Donald Trump that he terminate Comey based on Rosenstein’s findings.

    #68570
    waterfield
    Participant

    So Comey gets fired right after federal prosecutors issued grand jury subpoenas to associates of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. If the general public does not care about this then something drastically has changed since Watergate to now.

    Maybe half the people in this country may not care because Trump comes off as a tough talking son of a bitch-the kind of guy you don’t want to mess around with in a bar. The kind of “leader” you follow into battle. And Nixon did not come off like that. If that is so then we are indeed lost.

    #68583
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Trump has now fired three people who were leading active investigations into his Russian connections…

    https://www.axios.com/who-trump-has-fired-2400578336.html

    #68585
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    One political hack will now be replaced by a more obedient political hack.

    This system is beyond fixing.

    Just my opinion. I know, i know, I’m a ‘cynic’. Except I’m not.
    The system is…beyond…fixing. Trump will be replaced in time. And
    the system will go on as it was with Obama/Clinton. And the scientists will
    stop marching, and the Clintonistas and Reaganistas will go back
    to destroying the biosphere.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #68587
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Trump tweet:

    Cryin’ Chuck Schumer stated recently, “I do not have confidence in him (James Comey) any longer.” Then acts so indignant. #draintheswamp
    3:42 am · 10 May 2017
    ———

    btw, Comey is the former VP of Lockheed Martin. The department of defense’s largest contractor.

    —-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Comey
    Comey and his wife Patrice Failor are the parents of five children.[124] He is of Irish descent and was raised in a Roman Catholic household.[125][126] Comey subsequently joined the United Methodist Church, and has taught Sunday school in the past.[124]

    Although Comey was a registered Republican for most of his adult life, he disclosed during Congressional testimony on July 7, 2016, that he is no longer registered in any party.[1] Comey donated to U.S. Senator John McCain’s campaign in the 2008 presidential election and to Governor Mitt Romney’s campaign in the 2012 presidential election.[127]

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #68591
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    So Comey gets fired right after federal prosecutors issued grand jury subpoenas to associates of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. If the general public does not care about this then something drastically has changed since Watergate to now.

    Maybe half the people in this country may not care because Trump comes off as a tough talking son of a bitch-the kind of guy you don’t want to mess around with in a bar. The kind of “leader” you follow into battle. And Nixon did not come off like that. If that is so then we are indeed lost.

    It appears that the Trump supporters are treating this the same way Obama supporters treated the Benghazi hearings. They are saying there is nothing there, and the investigation is just a political hit job.

    I think the country has changed since Watergate. A lot. I think if Watergate happened today, the president would get away with it. I think the majority of people just see all of this as noise, and lump it all together without distinguishing the seriousness of the various scandals.

    #68592
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    One political hack will now be replaced by a more obedient political hack.

    This system is beyond fixing.

    Just my opinion. I know, i know, I’m a ‘cynic’. Except I’m not.
    The system is…beyond…fixing. Trump will be replaced in time. And
    the system will go on as it was with Obama/Clinton. And the scientists will
    stop marching, and the Clintonistas and Reaganistas will go back
    to destroying the biosphere.

    w
    v

    Someone gave me the Hoover biography in the late 80s, and I started reading it. Got about 1/4 of the way through the book, and had to put it down. Hoover was such a disgusting pig that I just didn’t want to “spend time” with him.

    You have to think…”What kind of personality would want the job of FBI director?”

    And there ya go.

    #68595
    waterfield
    Participant

    We agree on all that, W.

    .

    Not sure how to take that. My first reaction is that it means: “We (whoever “we” is) know all that so why bother posting it”. My second reaction is what I choose: ” Thx for posting that. I agree with you as I think most here do”.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by waterfield.
    #68600
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    <
    I think the country has changed since Watergate. A lot. I think if Watergate happened today, the president would get away with it. I think the majority of people just see all of this as noise, and lump it all together without distinguishing the seriousness of the various scandals.

    =============

    Well for some of us its hard to care about the ‘seriousness of the various scandals’ when the system itself is the single biggest scandal in human-history. I cant think of any other organization or entity that has threatened all life on the planet.

    Where are the ‘good guys’ in this Zooey?

    w
    v

    #68601
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Well for some of us its hard to care about the ‘seriousness of the various scandals’ when the system itself is the single biggest scandal in human-history. I cant think of any other organization or entity that has threatened all life on the planet.

    Where are the ‘good guys’ in this Zooey?

    w
    v

    Sure, but the fingers and noses rotting off the system ought to clue voters into the fact that the system has leprosy, don’t you think?

    But they don’t respond appropriately. They just say, “Aggh. It’s just acne. Both parties have it.”

    The “good guys” don’t go into politics. By it’s nature, politics attracts people who are interested in Power. Sociopaths. The good guys are handing $10 out their car windows to the vet the government won’t take care of.

    #68603
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    We agree on all that, W.

    .

    Not sure how to take that. My first reaction is that it means: “We (whoever “we” is) know all that so why bother posting it”. My second reaction is what I choose: ” Thx for posting that. I agree with you as I think most here do”.

    Lol. It’s the 2nd. I wouldn;t even think the first, let alone post it. And by “we” I just meant you and I, though you’re no doubt right that many others here would agree too.

    #68605
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Days Before Firing, Comey Asked for More Resources for Russia Inquiry

    link: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/comey-russia-investigation-fbi.html

    WASHINGTON — Days before he was fired, James B. Comey, the former F.B.I. director, asked the Justice Department for a significant increase in resources for the bureau’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the presidential election, according to four congressional officials, including Senator Richard J. Durbin.

    Mr. Comey made his appeal to Rod J. Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, who also wrote the Justice Department’s memo that was used to justify the firing of Mr. Comey this week, the officials said.

    “I’m told that as soon as Rosenstein arrived, there was a request for additional resources for the investigation and that a few days afterwards, he was sacked,” said Mr. Durbin, a Democrat of Illinois. “I think the Comey operation was breathing down the neck of the Trump campaign and their operatives, and this was an effort to slow down the investigation.”

    Mr. Comey briefed members of Congress in recent days, telling them about his meeting with Mr. Rosenstein, who is the most senior law enforcement official supervising the Russia investigation. Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself because of his close ties to the Trump campaign and his undisclosed meetings with the Russian ambassador.

    The timing of Mr. Comey’s request is not clear-cut evidence that his firing was related to the Russia investigation. But it is certain to fuel bipartisan criticism that President Trump appeared to be meddling in an investigation that had the potential to damage his presidency.

    The F.B.I. declined to comment. But Sarah Isgur Flores, the Justice Department spokeswoman, said “the idea that he asked for more funding” for the Russia investigation was “totally false.” She did not elaborate.

    In his briefing with members of Congress, Mr. Comey said he had been frustrated with the amount of resources being dedicated to the Russia investigation, according to two of the officials. Until two weeks ago, when Mr. Rosenstein took over as deputy attorney general, the investigation was being overseen by Dana Boente, who was acting as the deputy and is now the United States attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.

    Mr. Comey has said he was hoping that he would find a supportive boss in Mr. Rosenstein, and according to the officials, pressed for more resources so he could accelerate the investigation, which is also examining possible collusion between Trump associates and the Russian interference campaign. It was unclear how Mr. Rosenstein reacted to the request, or whether the White House was informed of it.

    To a president who puts a premium on loyalty, Mr. Comey represented a fiercely independent official who wielded incredible power. Mr. Comey made his career standing up to members of the George W. Bush administration on matters of surveillance. And his advisers have cast his handling of the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server as evidence that he was equally willing to criticize the Democratic nominee for president.

    Mr. Comey’s handling of the Clinton investigation was the stated reason for his termination, and the White House has insisted it had nothing to do with the Russia inquiry, which has become a major distraction for the Trump administration.

    Mr. Comey broke with longstanding policies by speaking publicly about the Clinton investigation twice last year. He also termed Mrs. Clinton’s handling of classified information as “extremely careless,” an estimation that went far beyond what the authorities normally say in cases where nobody is charged.

    #68606
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    “I’m told that as soon as Rosenstein arrived, there was a request for additional resources for the investigation and that a few days afterwards, he was sacked,” said Mr. Durbin, a Democrat of Illinois. “I think the Comey operation was breathing down the neck of the Trump campaign and their operatives, and this was an effort to slow down the investigation…”

    ===============
    Maybe Comey was on to something, but not too long ago, Feinstein flat out said this:

    #68607
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    No evidence (at that point) of collusion.

    But collusion is not the only animal in this hunt.

    ..

    #68609
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    No evidence (at that point) of collusion.

    But collusion is not the only animal in this hunt.

    ..

    =============

    Yes. And fwiw, I dont have any doubt the rooskies spent a ton of money
    helping Donald, as well as other candidates in other nations.

    And can almost guarantee that other powerful nations have taken notice and are working on their own versions of influencing modern elections. China, Israel, etc.

    And of course the USA is the king of influencing elections the world over. And thats putting it mildly.

    Meanwhile the mega-corpse just laugh at it all. Trump, Obama, Hillary, Russians, Chinese, it dont matter.

    w
    v

    #68611
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    No evidence (at that point) of collusion.

    But collusion is not the only animal in this hunt.

    ..

    =============

    Yes. And fwiw, I dont have any doubt the rooskies spent a ton of money
    helping Donald, as well as other candidates in other nations.

    And can almost guarantee that other powerful nations have taken notice and are working on their own versions of influencing modern elections. China, Israel, etc.

    And of course the USA is the king of influencing elections the world over. And thats putting it mildly.

    Meanwhile the mega-corpse just laugh at it all. Trump, Obama, Hillary, Russians, Chinese, it dont matter.

    w
    v

    We live in a society where greed is considered a virtue. Where someone else’s ignorance is an advantage to be exploited. Where thinking about the Greater Good is foolish and even treasonous. Where people support policies that harm themselves in the name of an empty symbol.

    #68612
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    No evidence (at that point) of collusion.

    But collusion is not the only animal in this hunt.

    ..

    =============

    Yes. And fwiw, I dont have any doubt the rooskies spent a ton of money
    helping Donald, as well as other candidates in other nations.

    And can almost guarantee that other powerful nations have taken notice and are working on their own versions of influencing modern elections. China, Israel, etc.

    And of course the USA is the king of influencing elections the world over. And thats putting it mildly.

    Meanwhile the mega-corpse just laugh at it all. Trump, Obama, Hillary, Russians, Chinese, it dont matter.

    w
    v

    I dunno WV, sometimes you gotta turn from all global history for all time, and just look at x topic in its time and place.

    The issue is, were laws broken. Collusion aside, which is just one thing on a long list of things, did the Trump circle have contact with Russians officials and/or business people in ways that broke laws.

    If the answer is yes, I am not going to be talked out of interest in that specific topic because Everything is Wrong Everywhere.

    It’s like, I am the coach, and I go, do I punt here or go for it? And then think, what’s the point, human nature has not lessened its depravity since the dawn of time, and winning is a form of indefensible greed. That’s just out of proportion to the real issue.

    I don’t excuse this administration breaking the law and then covering it up because Everything Else Everywhere Is Bad.

    You fight wars a battle at a time.

    #68618
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator
    #68619
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    No evidence (at that point) of collusion.

    But collusion is not the only animal in this hunt.

    ..

    =============

    Yes. And fwiw, I dont have any doubt the rooskies spent a ton of money
    helping Donald, as well as other candidates in other nations.

    And can almost guarantee that other powerful nations have taken notice and are working on their own versions of influencing modern elections. China, Israel, etc.

    And of course the USA is the king of influencing elections the world over. And thats putting it mildly.

    Meanwhile the mega-corpse just laugh at it all. Trump, Obama, Hillary, Russians, Chinese, it dont matter.

    w
    v

    I dunno WV, sometimes you gotta turn from all global history for all time, and just look at x topic in its time and place.

    The issue is, were laws broken. Collusion aside, which is just one thing on a long list of things, did the Trump circle have contact with Russians officials and/or business people in ways that broke laws.

    If the answer is yes, I am not going to be talked out of interest in that specific topic because Everything is Wrong Everywhere.

    It’s like, I am the coach, and I go, do I punt here or go for it? And then think, what’s the point, human nature has not lessened its depravity since the dawn of time, and winning is a form of indefensible greed. That’s just out of proportion to the real issue.

    I don’t excuse this administration breaking the law and then covering it up because Everything Else Everywhere Is Bad.

    You fight wars a battle at a time.

    ===============

    Well as you’ve noticed, I have changed over the last year or so. And its reflected in my posting. I used to take each issue “and just look at x topic in its time and place.” That used to be exactly what i did. But it doesn’t work anymore (for me).

    That outlook (as opposed to actual ‘approach‘) only made sense to me when i thought the system could be reformed. I no longer think the system can be reformed, and i think the system under Clinton/Bush/Obama/Trump is now so hideous and growing so rapidly, that I see no hope in reforming it. I think its too late. For all the reasons I’ve yacked about for years.

    So now, i find myself reacting to every single outrage-of-the-week with the same basic post — “yes, yes, the Dem-Rep-Corporotacracy-Deep-State is killing the biosphere and the masses brains have been colonized so there will be no resistence. Have a nice day”

    Believe me, i ‘get’ how uninteresting and monotonous my posts are. They are monotonous to me, believe me. But then thats how i really see it. Its not just board-talk. I really think the system is beyond fixing now.

    Now what I’ve just talked about is my ‘outlook’. That doesnt change the fact i actually have to LIVE in this world and DO things and make decisions about what to do with my life, etc. So I’ll continue to fight the good fight as i see it, and ‘do my best’ and ‘do what i can’ — but I now look at like I’m giving the heimlich maneuver to someone on the Titanic.

    Oh, and I am going to try and discipline myself so that I dont reply to every outrage-of-the-week with “yes, yes, what do you expect from a Corporotacracy, we are all doomed”

    I’ll think it, but I wont post it.

    I am into hiking now, btw. I’m getting into better shape. I need some good hiking shoes.

    w
    v

    #68621
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    For WV

    #68623
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Well as you’ve noticed, I have changed over the last year or so. And its reflected in my posting. I used to take each issue “and just look at x topic in its time and place.” That used to be exactly what i did. But it doesn’t work anymore (for me).

    That outlook (as opposed to actual ‘approach‘) only made sense to me when i thought the system could be reformed. I no longer think the system can be reformed, and i think the system under Clinton/Bush/Obama/Trump is now so hideous and growing so rapidly, that I see no hope in reforming it. I think its too late. For all the reasons I’ve yacked about for years.

    So now, i find myself reacting to every single outrage-of-the-week with the same basic post — “yes, yes, the Dem-Rep-Corporotacracy-Deep-State is killing the biosphere and the masses brains have been colonized so there will be no resistence. Have a nice day”

    Believe me, i ‘get’ how uninteresting and monotonous my posts are. They are monotonous to me, believe me. But then thats how i really see it. Its not just board-talk. I really think the system is beyond fixing now.

    Now what I’ve just talked about is my ‘outlook’. That doesnt change the fact i actually have to LIVE in this world and DO things and make decisions about what to do with my life, etc. So I’ll continue to fight the good fight as i see it, and ‘do my best’ and ‘do what i can’ — but I now look at like I’m giving the heimlich maneuver to someone on the Titanic.

    Oh, and I am going to try and discipline myself so that I dont reply to every outrage-of-the-week with “yes, yes, what do you expect from a Corporotacracy, we are all doomed”

    I’ll think it, but I wont post it.

    I am into hiking now, btw. I’m getting into better shape. I need some good hiking shoes.

    w
    v

    Great post. And say what you feel. It comes across differently once you explain it. It’s where yer at.

    I have to tell you my attitude/beliefs though, and I am not upholding them as The Thing You Must Do.

    I don’t think you fight wars without hope. So I look for signs of hope. Even small ones. So yes the system is raising itself to new levels of evil, but, 10 years ago I would never have dreamed that Sanders would have gotten as many votes as he did. I lived my entire american adult life not even wishing for a genuinely popular progressive candidate because it would be like wishing for wings or a real functioning magic wand. I didn’t even regret there being no such animal, I just lived in a world where they didn’t exist…it would be like regretting the sky is blue (why can’t we have ORANGE skies dammit).

    So are we at the stage where things have finally collapsed, or are we on the cusp of a progressive backlash unlike anything we have known? Darkest before the dawn?

    But either way, whether or not you like my example, you can’t fight wars without hope.

    Gamling: “Too few have come. We cannot defeat the armies of Mordor.”
    Théoden: “No, we cannot….But we will meet them in battle nonetheless.”
    [The men nod in agreement.]

    #68624
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Yeah, I’d say the Pessimism Level on this board has risen significantly in the past year. All kinds of reasons why.

    #68632
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Great post. And say what you feel. It comes across differently once you explain it. It’s where yer at.

    I have to tell you my attitude/beliefs though, and I am not upholding them as The Thing You Must Do.

    I don’t think you fight wars without hope. So I look for signs of hope. Even small ones. So yes the system is raising itself to new levels of evil, but, 10 years ago I would never have dreamed that Sanders would have gotten as many votes as he did. I lived my entire american adult life not even wishing for a genuinely popular progressive candidate because it would be like wishing for wings or a real functioning magic wand. I didn’t even regret there being no such animal, I just lived in a world where they didn’t exist…it would be like regretting the sky is blue (why can’t we have ORANGE skies dammit).

    So are we at the stage where things have finally collapsed, or are we on the cusp of a progressive backlash unlike anything we have known? Darkest before the dawn?

    But either way, whether or not you like my example, you can’t fight wars without hope.

    Gamling: “Too few have come. We cannot defeat the armies of Mordor.”
    Théoden: “No, we cannot….But we will meet them in battle nonetheless.”
    [The men nod in agreement.]

    ========================
    Well the ‘hope’ thing is a big, deep, complex subject.

    I dont run around throwing cold water on OTHER people’s hopes. I only do that here 🙂

    I dont do it elsewhere for the exact same reason i dont tell wv-mom that her fundamentalist-christian “jesus is coming” HOPES are all bullshit. I mean, why would i want to take her ‘hopes’ away from her. Her life is based on those ‘hopes’. Its built on those hopes. Wouldnt be a good thing to take those hopes away. Even though they are futile and ridiculous. I feel the same way about Dem-hopes and Rep-hopes. Mainstream-american hopes.

    So i walk around all day surrounded by humans who are all hopey-changy about Trump or Obama or Hillary…or Bernie. And i ‘get’ how important hope is, but the situation really looks beyond hope to ME. Thats my rational assessment based on the info i have (info about pollution, toxic sludge, fracking, nuclear weapons, bio weapons, chemical weapons, weapons industries, Corporate personhood, Gerrymandering, Neoliberalism, Psyops, Propaganda, NSA, CIA, FBI, human biology, climate change, ‘education,’ Corporate-media, voting-results, technology, etc etc)

    I mean even IF a Bernie were somehow to be elected, that Bernie would have to deal with a corporate-Senate, a corporate-House, a corporate-Court, a corporate-CIA….etc. The mega-corpse would just smear him, and wait him out.

    I could go on…but my point is….i forget. I think it was Hope is complex subject. I still have a flicker of hope. A flicker. But for the most part hope has left these lands. The personal individual question for me is how to live a good life without it. Or with only a flicker of it.

    I’m not about to run around telling ‘other’ hopeful people what to do or think.
    I’m HAPPY others still have hope. Good for them. …but this aint a star wars movie. And i find that most hopey-people dont know shit about the deep-state.

    w
    v
    “It’s a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human
    problem all one’s life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than‘try to be a little kinder.’ “ Aldous Huxley

    “The greatest mystery is not that we have been flung at random between this profusion of matter and the stars, but that within this prison we can draw from ourselves images powerful enough to deny our nothingness.” Les Noyers de l’Altenburg: Andre Malraux

    “We have not yet encountered any god who is as merciful as a man who flicks a beetle over on its feet.” ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek

    #68636
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I mean even IF a Bernie were somehow to be elected, that Bernie would have to deal with a corporate-Senate, a corporate-House, a corporate-Court, a corporate-CIA….etc. The mega-corpse would just smear him, and wait him out.

    This, here, is the corps of the problem. We could fluke in a progressive president just as people have elected Senator Wellstone, Sanders, and a few others, and given 40 years, we might get a progressive counterpart to the Freedom Caucus – 40 or 50 seats. It would be too little, too late. Furthermore, even places that have elected progressives…like Minnesota which elected Wellstone…aren’t making a permanent commitment to progressive politics. The same state elected Jesse Ventura to the governorship, and Al Franken wone his seat by a hairsbreadth over Norm Coleman. The only way to overcome the Corpse is with a mass awakening, and there is no historical precedent. How is that even conceivable when the far right owns all the media? And ignorance is soooooo pervasive.

    I tripped upon a twitter site called something like ClimateChangein5Words. And 1/4 of the tweets were “There is no Planet B” and 3/4 said something like “Global Socialist conspiracy to take over the world.” And you can’t argue people out of that level of stupidity because they have already decided that Science is on the take with grant money designed to get them to fix the evidence so that leftist powers can impose more limitations on human freedom, and control people. I mean…that is literally what they think.

    So I would say that convincing the masses is basically impossible. People literally do not know what is evidence, and what isn’t, what is a good argument, and what is not.

    #68767
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Trump’s war with Comey intensifies

    http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/333217-trumps-war-with-comey-intensifies

    President Trump is escalating his public feud with former FBI director James Comey.

    Under siege in the media and on Capitol Hill, Trump on Friday morning lobbed a direct threat at the former director, tweeting that Comey “better hope that there are no ‘tapes’ of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!”

    For days, the FBI’s J. Edgar Hoover building has been a sieve of leaks contradicting the president’s account of his decision to fire Comey, painting Trump as paranoid and vindictive. In a New York Times story Thursday night, allies of Comey said the president had summoned him to the White House for dinner and demanded that he vow political loyalty — but was rebuffed.

    Trump in an interview with Fox News’s Jeanine Pirro denied demanding Comey’s loyalty, though he added, “I don’t think it would be a bad question to ask.”

    The president has also said that Comey asked for the meeting and that during dinner, Comey told him he was not the subject of an investigation. The claim has been met with incredulity, as it would represent a major breach of ethics for the former FBI director.

    Comey, meanwhile, has stayed staunchly silent, forcing Trump to shadow box with his opponent. The only glimpse of the towering former director has been paparazzi shots taken through his back fence in McLean, Va.

    Trump has gotten little support as he has ramped up the fight.

    On Capitol Hill, even Republican lawmakers have shifted in their seats, calling his dismissal of Comey “disturbing.” Democrats have labeled his actions “Nixonian.”

    Former and current FBI officials have stood by Comey, even as the White House has scrambled to back up the president’s shifting account of the firing.

    Former national intelligence director James Clapper on Friday afternoon corroborated the Times account of Comey’s January dinner with the president.

    “He had mentioned that he had been invited to the White House to have dinner with the president and that he was uneasy with that because of compromising even the optics, the appearance of independence, not only of him but of the FBI,” Clapper told MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell.

    Associates reportedly say it’s highly unlikely that Comey — who was concerned with appearing too chummy with the White House even under former President Barack Obama — would ask for a meeting with Trump.

    That he would discuss an ongoing investigation that implicates the president’s own associates, they say, defies belief.

    “He tried to stay away from it,” a former official, who worked closely with Comey and stays in touch with him, told NBC News. “He would say, ‘Look sir, I really can’t get into it, and you don’t want me to.’ ”

    Trump’s “hyper-reactive and thin-skinned response on almost an hourly basis” hasn’t helped him win support in the feud with Comey, said Kevin Madden, a GOP strategist and former public affairs official in George W. Bush’s Justice Department.

    “The effect has been is to lionize Comey and put the president in the difficult position of being defensive,” Madden said. “That just puts him at a disadvantage when it comes to how the public judges whether what took place was the right thing or the wrong thing.”

    Comey was widely liked and respected within the FBI, contradicting a claim from the White House that he had lost the faith of the rank-and-file over his handling of the Hillary Clinton email probe.

    The man who has temporarily taken over Comey’s job, deputy director Andrew McCabe, on Thursday morning gave testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee that included a hearty show of support for his former boss.

    “Director Comey enjoyed broad support within the FBI and still does to this day,” McCabe told the Senate Intelligence Committee, calling it the “greatest privilege” of his professional career to work with him.

    The president’s relationship with his independent-minded FBI director had been steadily and publicly deteriorating since Trump took office on Jan. 20.

    Although Trump had praised Comey during the election for pursuing the Clinton email investigation, the relationship quickly soured as news reports about the bureau’s investigation into Russian interference in the election trickled out.

    In February, he blasted the bureau for being “totally unable to stop the national security ‘leakers,’ ” following reports that officials refused to dispute a New York Times story that said agents had uncovered contact between Russian officials and his campaign.

    And Trump was reportedly incensed by Comey’s refusal to defend his accusation that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower before the presidential election.

    Comey testified in March that the Justice Department had “no information” to support Trump’s wiretapping allegation — the same hearing at which he made public that the FBI was investigating possible coordination between Trump campaign officials and Russia.

    Some say the dismissal was likely inevitable, given the inherent tension between Comey’s independent streak and a president who values loyalty above all else.

    “I think we probably should have seen this coming,” Madden said with a chuckle. “The culture of law enforcement and the celebrity culture that the president comes out of are very different.”

    Trump’s tweet on Friday was widely perceived as an attempt to intimidate Comey into silence. But longtime Comey-watchers think there’s a good chance he will emerge to tell his side of the story.

    He has declined — at least for the time being — an invitation to appear before the Senate Intelligence Committee to testify behind closed doors on Tuesday.

    But Comey rarely shied away from media appearances when he felt it was in the public interest to speak — something some critics say was his critical failing. It has long been bureau practice for directors to stay out of the limelight, but Comey is now a household name.

    “One thing I learned at DOJ about Comey: he leaves a protective paper trail whenever he deems something inappropriate happened,” former Obama Justice Department spokesman Matthew Miller tweeted Thursday night about the White House dinner.

    “Stay tuned.”

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