building the superbowl Rams

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  • #136116
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #136118
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    1. “Forget” them picks. 2. Reload. Reload. Reload the Coaching Staff. 3. Complete and Total Buy In

    That’s all true. But, add to it–superb drafting in the lower rounds.

    We all know this but it’s fun to see it. So…examples (2018-20) (I will bold/highlight the especially noteworthy ones, though there’s room for debate on that):

    2 Cam Akers
    2 Van Jefferson
    6 Jordan Fuller

    3 Darrell Henderson
    3 David Long
    4 Greg Gaines
    5 David Edwards
    7 Nick Scott

    3 Joseph Noteboom
    4 Brian Allen
    6 Sebastian Joseph-Day
    7 Travin Howard

    They’re averaging 4 finds per draft without 1st round picks.

    And that’s not even to mention the UDFAs.

    #136126
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Good one.

    I hate that Robert Woods is not out there.

    #136127
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    Nice solid lower round draft pick hits…

    I hope it’s not based on the scout that left to  be GM in Detroit.

     

     

     

    #136131
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I still can’t forgive them for drafting Tutu in the 2nd round. Again, he’s fast, he’s very tough for his size, but it was . . . . one of the most baffling picks in Rams history . . . right up there with Trung.

    Tiny, speedy receivers tend to be available much later, even as UDFAs, if that was the criterion. But you almost never find receivers with size/speed/hands/physicality boxes checked late. Speedy smurfs — you can. I would have taken Creed Humphreys instead.

    I think they can do their “all in now” strategy and make better draft picks when they have them. I also think they tend to dump players too quickly and for too little. Example Kenny Young, who was actually their best linebacker when they traded him. He’d help them right now, I’d bet.

    Anyway . . . they’ve made this route work, obviously, and I’m a fan of their drive and courage to go against the grain. But there are some tweaks to it all I wish they’d make . . . and they’re going to run into cap issues all too soon.

    In short, I want what may be impossible: Win now and build for the future. But I’ll settle for the former with a little more emphasis on the latter than is the Rams current MO.

    #136132
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Jourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigue
    From a conversation with Rams GM Les Snead this morning, on how a team culture can become a living organism:
    “It doesn’t matter what signs you have on the wall. Places that have cultures that are substandard, not there yet or a little dysfunctional, a little off-kilter, they probably have inspirational long-living stoic-like quotes that we’d all base our life on. But culture is a living thing. And this one is alive, and well. You come here – it’s probably pretty simple: You’d better love football, because that’s what we’re gonna do here. We’re
    gonna do football. We’re not here to micro-manage (you)…You better love football, you better want to get better at football, you better want to evolve at football, you better want to go from 101 to 102, 103, 104, 105 every day. And every day, who cares (about) social media –

    you’ve got a life – but come in this building, football. If you don’t love it, or don’t really have the conscientiousness to go, ‘I’m gonna get out of the entry-level class to the next level’…I don’t know if people who can’t (do it) stick out (so much as) they’re gonna *melt*.”

    #136141
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #136143
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Jourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigue From a conversation with Rams GM Les Snead this morning, on how a team culture can become a living organism: “It doesn’t matter what signs you have on the wall. Places that have cultures that are substandard, not there yet or a little dysfunctional, a little off-kilter, they probably have inspirational long-living stoic-like quotes that we’d all base our life on. But culture is a living thing. And this one is alive, and well. You come here – it’s probably pretty simple: You’d better love football, because that’s what we’re gonna do here. We’re gonna do football. We’re not here to micro-manage (you)…You better love football, you better want to get better at football, you better want to evolve at football, you better want to go from 101 to 102, 103, 104, 105 every day. And every day, who cares (about) social media – you’ve got a life – but come in this building, football. If you don’t love it, or don’t really have the conscientiousness to go, ‘I’m gonna get out of the entry-level class to the next level’…I don’t know if people who can’t (do it) stick out (so much as) they’re gonna *melt*.”

    ======

    “I don’t know if people who can’t (do it) stick out (so much as) they’re gonna *melt*”

     

    Probly dont wanna put a sign that says ‘that’

    on a wall.

     

    w

    v

    #136145
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    “I don’t know if people who can’t (do it) stick out (so much as) they’re gonna *melt*”   Probly dont wanna put a sign that says ‘that’ on a wall.   w v

    What Snead says does echo a Rams thing. What do they look for when drafting players? Smarts is one. And another is just plain love of the game. (That’s not all but those 2 are big.)

    You know what the Rams 3 all-time worst high offensive line draft picks have in common? Questionable love of the game. Barron, Smith, Robinson.

    #136149
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Why Rams ‘take risks’ to win now

    Michael Silver

    https://www.ballysports.com/national/news/michael-silver-why-rams-take-risks-to-win-now

    LOS ANGELES — Midway through an iced coffee while sitting at an outdoor cafe on the border of Brentwood and Santa Monica last Friday afternoon, Los Angeles Rams chief operating officer Kevin Demoff wanted to make two things clear.

    First, despite the common perception that the Rams are all in for the 2021 season, losing to Tom Brady and the defending Super Bowl champion Tampa Bay Buccaneers in an upcoming divisional-round playoff game would not constitute a calamitous crash from which the franchise would struggle to recover.

    And secondly, though L.A.’s star-heavy, go-for-broke approach had worked out well so far, Demoff said, “We don’t think we’re smarter than everybody else. We don’t think we’re better than anybody else. We’re just willing to think in a different way. And by the way, I don’t know if our model is right or replicable or sustainable. But those are all questions for a different day.”

    Two days later, the Rams would pull out a dramatic, 30-27 road victory over the Bucs fueled by many of the high-profile players they’ve landed over the past three seasons. The team that hosts the rival San Francisco 49ers in Sunday’s NFC championship game at SoFi Stadium — with a chance to return to SoFi two weeks later for Super Bowl LVI — has benefitted greatly from the presence of quarterback Matthew Stafford, cornerback Jalen Ramsey, edge rusher Von Miller and wide receiver Odell Beckham, Jr., validating, at least in the short term, the aggressive acquisition strategy that brought them to Los Angeles.

    Each time the Rams deal draft picks or strain to squeeze another big contract under the salary cap, there’s an accompanying outcry, with skeptics insisting that impending organizational comeuppance is a certainty. This is especially true each spring, when millions of viewers tune in for the league’s annual Player Selection Meeting: The Rams, thanks largely to Demoff’s efforts, may have the coolest draft pad in America, but L.A. hasn’t had a first-round pick since it selected quarterback Jared Goff first overall in 2016. That trend is likely to continue, as the Rams dealt away their 2022 and 2023 first-round selections a year ago in the blockbuster trade that sent Goff to the Detroit Lions for Stafford.

    The Stafford trade, which came on the heels of last January’s divisional-round defeat to the Green Bay Packers, underscored the franchise’s commitment to the here and now. The aligned approach employed by Demoff, general manager Les Snead and coach Sean McVay — made possible by owner Stan Kroenke’s blessing and checkbook — is derided by critics as desperate, reckless and shortsighted. In Demoff’s eyes, it’s merely strategic.

    “I think the great thing about our team is we’re opportunistic,” Demoff said. “It’s not like we go on Craigslist and say, ‘We have two first-round picks for sale, and what will you give us for them?’ Jalen Ramsey is an elite All-Pro player at one of the most important positions in football, who (was almost) 25. For some reason, he was available. Matthew Stafford, an elite, All-Pro-caliber quarterback, was available. I think you have to take each case individually and decide whether they make you better, and what are the alternatives that you’d get with the capital that you’re giving up.”

    For example: The Rams sent two first-round picks and a fourth-round selection to the Jacksonville Jaguars for Ramsey in October of 2019. The Jags have since used those first-round picks on edge rusher K’Lavon Chaisson in 2020 and running back Travis Etienne last April, with very little (so far) to show for it.

    This is not to say that the Rams haven’t made their share of mistakes, too. Signing running back Todd Gurley to a top-of-the-market contract extension in July of 2018, only to have his career short-circuited due to lingering knee issues, was one of those ill-advised moves, and Goff’s 2019 contract extension when he was coming off a Super Bowl LIII appearance was, by definition (as evidenced by last year’s trade), a decision they came to regret.

    Being willing to risk embarrassment — and to cut their losses, when necessary — is a key tenet behind the Rams’ philosophy. Another is to view each opportunity to add a key veteran as a supplemental transaction, rather than as a cure-all. When the price seems right, they don’t hesitate: L.A. has made a multitude of trades in the five years since McVay’s hiring as the youngest head coach in modern NFL history, acquiring players such as wide receivers Brandin Cooks and Sammy Watkins, cornerbacks Aqib Talib and Marcus Peters, edge rusher Dante Fowler Jr., guard Austin Corbett and running back Sony Michel. The Rams have also rejected plenty of proposed deals that were deemed overly steep in price.

    L.A. owns the league’s third-best record during that span, so McVay, Snead and Demoff are obviously doing something right.

    “This league is designed for you to go .500,” Demoff said. “The draft is; the schedule is; the salary cap is. So you have to try to find your advantage any way possible. But the best way to do it is to do something different that other people aren’t doing and then hope that that actually works.

    “There is no proven formula that works, proven over time. The sooner you admit that, the better. How arrogant do you have to be to (say), ‘You know what — we’re gonna do it like everybody else, but we’re better at it’? That’s arrogance. You have to think about your world differently. You have to take risks. And you have to be willing to live with the downside.”

    For the Rams’ approach to flourish, several things have to happen. First and foremost, the players they acquire have to like the organizational environment enough to stay with the team once their contracts expire. Snead and his fellow talent evaluators also have to be adept at filling out the roster with young players on rookie contracts who can contribute right away, in order to make a top-heavy salary cap work. The Rams had the league’s youngest roster coming out of the 2021 draft and entered the season with the seventh-youngest 53-man squad, with an average age of 25.76 years.

    Though lampooned for their lack of first-rounders, the Rams have made a concerted effort to stockpile late-round selections, via their shrewd use of the league’s compensatory-pick formula to their advantage, and their propensity for trading down. And clearly, McVay and his assistants can coach up their less-decorated players, as evidenced by the postseason contributions of safety Nick Scott (a seventh-round draft pick in 2017), linebackers Troy Reeder (undrafted in 2019) and Travin Howard (a 2018 seventh-round selection), nose tackle Greg Gaines (a 2019 fourth-rounder) and guard David Edwards (a 2019 fifth-rounder), among others.

    That the Rams’ boldness quotient increased after the franchise’s 2016 move from St. Louis to Los Angeles is no coincidence. A fan base smitten with star power tends to applaud live-for-the-moment moves such as the Nov. 1 trade for Miller, a perennial Denver Broncos All-Pro and Super Bowl 50 MVP whose contract expires after this season, and the free-agent signing of Beckham after his release by the Cleveland Browns less than two weeks later.

    It should also be noted that the Rams play in football’s toughest division — against franchises with similarly aggressive tendencies. After the 49ers unsuccessfully tried to trade for Stafford, they made a blockbuster deal to move up nine spots in the draft and select former North Dakota State quarterback Trey Lance as the third overall selection. Kyle Shanahan, during training camp, told me that trade had been influenced by the Rams’ recent history, as well as that of the Seattle Seahawks (who sent two first-round picks and more to the New York Jets for All-Pro safety Jamal Adams in July of 2020). The Arizona Cardinals, who lost to the Rams in a first-round playoff game, have also taken big swings, such as using top-10 picks on quarterbacks in consecutive drafts.

    Said Demoff, laughing: “The NFC West isn’t wired for, ‘Hey, we’re gonna draft and develop.’”

    With the Rams now a victory away from securing their second Super Bowl appearance in four seasons, Demoff isn’t second-guessing the model that got them this far. If nothing else, in a league where the risk-averse traditionalists are often celebrated, he and his fellow decision-makers have plotted an unconventional course that they believe has created a competitive edge.

    “There are so many different ways to do it,” Demoff said. “Ultimately, you have to do what you think is best for your franchise. The most important thing is, have a formula that is not someone else’s formula. Because the likelihood is, if you’re executing the same plan, you’re not going to be that much better at it than they are.”

    #136150
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    “I don’t know if people who can’t (do it) stick out (so much as) they’re gonna *melt*” Probly dont wanna put a sign that says ‘that’ on a wall. w v

    What Snead says does echo a Rams thing. What do they look for when drafting players? Smarts is one. And another is just plain love of the game. (That’s not all but those 2 are big.) You know what the Rams 3 all-time worst high offensive line draft picks have in common? Questionable love of the game. Barron, Smith, Robinson.

    Barron, Smith, and Robinson had other things in common. They were, for the line, exceptional athletes. Off the charts, elite. Though Robinson, unlike Barron and Smith, also had crazy size. They all had the physical foundation for perennial dominance.

    My first (amateur GM) instinct is to go for great athletes above all other traits, and I think “athleticism” is the most easily measured, known, observable. So-called intangibles are far, far tougher for scouts and staff to see, and usually all too subjectively assessed. They’re often hidden during the draft process, or in those salad days, and may only come to the fore later. Who knows why? For instance, I highly doubt the Rams knew what they were getting in Aaron Donald along those lines, but they knew he was freakish, athletically. He’s a generational player primarily because he merges fanatical drive, discipline, and hunger with that freakish athleticism, and that combo just doesn’t happen very often. Deacon Jones is another case in point, though team after team passed him over in the draft, if memory serves. He made the scouts look seriously stupid pretty quickly.

    To make a long story shorter, what the Rams have is at least two special players with freakish athleticism and fanatical love of the game: Donald and Ramsey. They have another with lesser athleticism but the same kinds of intangibles: Kupp. Having those players creates more of the same. Sparks unhidden “intangibles” in other players that even the scouts and staff never knew were there — primarily cuz the players didn’t know they had it in them, either.

    Gaines seems to be benefiting tremendously from that snow-ball effect. There are obviously many others.

    So, if I’m the GM/coach/staff, I keep trying to find great athletes who other teams may think are just not living up to their abilities, get them in the room with an expanding bunch of ADs, Kupps, and Ramseys, and hope the light goes on. Well, I do more than just hope. I work as hard as I can to extend and elevate that environment, from the bottom up. I also try for the guys I know already love the game but may not have elite athleticism, and train ’em up to the degree possible.

    Coach up, train up, psych up, etc. Love of the game, want-to off the charts, discipline the mind and body, and we’re all in this together, etc.

    #136161
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    When the Rams built around a handful of A+ stars (Donald, Ramsey, Stafford, Kupp, Whitworth) it was legit to ask if that was enough. The answer was simple–if they could stock the team with decent to good players around the stars and do it cheaply, the fact that they dedicated a huge proportion of their cap to a handful of players is completely justifiable.

    And, it’s what happened. Next year for example it looks like the Rams starting safeties will be Fuller and Scott, and that will be about as good a tandem as they’ve had for years. It cost them 1 6th round and 1 7th round pick.

    #136166
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    When the Rams built around a handful of A+ stars (Donald, Ramsey, Stafford, Kupp, Whitworth) it was legit to ask if that was enough. The answer was simple–if they could stock the team with decent to good players around the stars and do it cheaply, the fact that they dedicated a huge proportion of their cap to a handful of players is completely justifiable. And, it’s what happened. Next year for example it looks like the Rams starting safeties will be Fuller and Scott, and that will be about as good a tandem as they’ve had for years. It cost them 1 6th round and 1 7th round pick.

     

    I agree with all of that. I like the Scott/Fuller tandem too. A lot. Excellent picks.

    But I’m worried that cap issues will cull the talent once again. Can the Rams afford to re-sign SJD, for example? He was a gem of a pick, and has a strong combination of athleticism, size, and want-to, with the latter likely (again) at least partially the result of being next to AD, etc. Can they afford to re-sign Miller or OBJ? And the O-line? How will they make up for the loss at LT? They might not be able to re-sign Noteboom either.

    Have never been a cap expert, but it doesn’t look good on those fronts. IMO, that’s due to being far too quick to extend Goff, Gurley, and a few others, before they had to. And that kind of thing doesn’t just hurt them in retaining their front tier guys. It hurts depth.

    Anyway, I’m being too negative in a Super Bowl week. Gotta enjoy this now and worry about next season — next season. This week is for splurging, celebration, once in a blue moon stuff.

    #136167
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I read somewhere that the Rams have $39 million in dead money coming off the books next year for Goff, Gurley, & 3 other guys. I don’t remember who.

    So OBJ and Miller can probably fit – if that’s what everybody actually wants to do.

    #136169
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I read somewhere that the Rams have $39 million in dead money coming off the books next year for Goff, Gurley, & 3 other guys. I don’t remember who. So OBJ and Miller can probably fit – if that’s what everybody actually wants to do.

     

    I think you’re correct, Zooey. But I thought they were in cap hell even given the fall-off of dead money. Who was it from the old site, Firecap? Wasn’t he the guy who really had a handle on all of that?

    Anyway, if I had to choose between just the two guys, I’d re-sign OBJ. Would love to have them both. But if it’s a choice, I take the wideout. Miller will be 33. He’s played really good football, but he’s on the downside of his career, and I think OBJ has several strong years ahead of him.

    Woods is one of my favorite Rams, and I don’t want to see him go, so if they have to make room, I’d trade Van. He also might be the guy other teams seek, given his age. Woods and OBJ will be 30, I think. Apparently, in recent years, that age seems to be a downturn year for receivers in the current incarnation of the NFL. Don’t know why, exactly, but one of several Rams bloggers came up with some Next Gen stuff and found a big fall-off for receivers starting around that age. I get that stuff from the Apple News aggregate when I doom scroll.

    ;>)

    Really want them to prioritize SJD and OBJ. Hope I’m wrong about the other stuff, about the cap being so tight, but if it is, I really want the Rams to have a rotation next year of Gaines, SJD, Donald, Brown, Hoecht, plus rookie. In the wideout room, Kupp, OBJ, Woods, Skowronek, Tutu, or rookie. That’s an amazing receiver room. About the only thing it lacks is a tree who’s really fast. A Metcalf kind of guy.

    Anyway, as mentioned, looking forward to the splurge on Sunday. May just break the bank, for food and beverages. Get exotic with both, perhaps. Leave it all on the field, to the degree we fans can.

    Hope all is well.

    #136170
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I don’t know the first thing about the cap. They may be in cap hell, but I tend to think that if they were, we would know it. That would have been prominent in the story line. “Rams rolling it all on this year…cuz doomsday is March 1.” Or whatever. Seems like that would be common knowledge.

    I would keep OBJ over Miller, too, but hope they can keep both.

    Trading Van gets them nothing. He’s not a cap issue at the moment, I wouldn’t think.

     

    #136173
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    I read somewhere that the Rams have $39 million in dead money coming off the books next year for Goff, Gurley, & 3 other guys. I don’t remember who. So OBJ and Miller can probably fit – if that’s what everybody actually wants to do.

     

    i also read the salaries for donald and ramsey and others kick in so much of that 39 million gets used up. whit may retire so that will give some relief. but i think they’ll still be over the cap.

     

    for example donald and ramsey only count like a couple million each this year. in 2022 they’ll count 25 million each.

     

    some players are gonna have to restructure their contracts.

    #136174
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    actually scratch that. i have no idea what i’m talking about.

     

    we need a cap expert. usually this is where ag would step in. i hope he’s ok.

     

    spotrac is saying the rams will have 5 million in cap space in 2022.

    #136178
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    The suggestion of trading Van Jefferson wasn’t because of cap issues. He’s likely on a very team-friendly contract for two more years. It was the potential of needed draft picks, and the crowded nature of the wide receiver room, if they bring back both OBJ and Woods.

    I’m betting they wouldn’t do as I suggest, and that Woods may actually be the guy they let go, if OBJ stays. Though it’s probably most likely they can’t re-sign the latter, unfortunately.

    Too early prediction for that room next season: Kupp, Woods, Jefferson, Skowronek, and Tutu — plus rookie, if they keep six.

    (I have no real idea where they’ll put Harris. Depends on his recovery, success at adding weight, blocking, etc.)

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