Banning Muslims is bad. Bombing them is good.

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  • January 30, 2017 at 8:42 am #64541
    Avatar photowv
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    Jimmy Dore

    January 30, 2017 at 9:27 am #64545
    PA Ram
    Participant

    I think it’s generally agreed that Obama screwed up the whole Syria situation. He really didn’t seem to know what to do there. He could have pulled out–let Assad just take control and what would be would be(including Assad bombing Muslims). Or he could have invaded like Iraq and tried to take over and build a state. Either way those Muslims were screwed. Either way they were dying. He had no good answer.

    Trump’s answer will be to bomb the shit out of them, maybe put boots on the ground, maybe take Iraq’s oil, ban any refugees(something Obama only did briefly when some Iraqi refugees attacked in Kentucky so it was a response to an actual attack),

    I don’t care what list of countries Obama had. The fact is that he didn’t ban them–Trump did.

    Trump owns it all to himself.

    I suspect that Fox News and the right will be aligned with some on the left in blaming Obama for many things that Trump does right now.

    I don’t buy it.

    It’s Trump’s ship now. Everything he does HE owns.

    Not buying it, Jimmy Dore.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    January 30, 2017 at 9:35 am #64546
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator
    PA Ram wrote:

    It’s Trump’s ship now. Everything he does HE owns.

    Not buying it, Jimmy Dore.

    Yeah good analysis. I agree.

    For some reason there’s this entire industry out there, left AND right, that wants to downplay Trump or deflect what he’s doing or act like it wouldn’t be any different or any better with someone else and so on.

    I’ve run out of patience with all that. Trump is and will be worse than anything we could possibly imagine. Time to stop trying to blunt that recognition.

    We didn;t hear screeds during the Obama years about how it was all Bush’s fault. At least with Obama you could see bad decisions in the middle of complex issues. But no one said “muslims are the problem per se” and escalated this thing into the stratosphere. I don’t see the point anymore in pretending that’s not different. It is far, far, far worse. Immeasurably worse.

    January 30, 2017 at 10:27 am #64548
    Avatar photowv
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    Ok, i disagree with your characterization of what Dore is saying.

    I dont think he’s letting Trump off the hook for anything. I think he’s just adding some accurate context.

    w
    v

    January 30, 2017 at 10:39 am #64551
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    My own take is that Dore sets up a false premise, and just makes bad deductions from that point.

    Sorry, but it’s absolutely not true that “everyone is okay with bombing the shit out of Muslims” — much less that it’s “good.” That’s a false narrative from the getgo.

    Ironically, the people most likely to BE okay with that? Trump, Bannon, Flynn, Eric Prince and the Alt-Right, etc. etc.

    Interesting intro by Fareed Zakaria here:

    Note especially after the 1.22 minute mark, and then again from roughly 2.10 to 2.20.

    No one from the seven countries listed has killed an American on American soil, but two of the countries Trump doesn’t include total nearly 3,000 — Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emirates. Just a coincidence, no doubt, that Trump has business holdings in the countries NOT on the list.

    Also, chances of an American being killed by a refugee? One in 3.64 BILLION.

    January 30, 2017 at 10:41 am #64552
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Obama’s bans were on those already covered by UN travel bans or who had alleged ties to terrorist organizations. There were no bans based on someone’s religion. The Iraqi ban, as PA points out, came after an attack in the US and was on all Iraqi nationals applying for a special immigrant visa and refugees. Iraqis weren’t banned based on their religion and at no time during the ban did the flow of refugees from Iraq completely stop.

    I haven’t had a chance to see the video yet but going on the responses if Dore is claiming an equivelency between the Obama bans and the Trump ban he is incorrect.

    January 30, 2017 at 10:47 am #64554
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    The administration is desperately trying to spin this by saying it’s not a Muslim ban. This, even though Trump explicitly called for one during the campaign, and his EO carves out exceptions for Christians.

    Of COURSE it’s a Muslim ban. This is just one more case of the Trumpanzees trying to Gaslight America.

    Oh, and then there’s Giuliani:

    Trump is now complaining that his order is being called a “Muslim ban” Trump originally proposed a Muslim ban. Now he’s upset people are describing his executive order as one.

    Still, the executive order is an evolution of Trump’s actual Muslim ban proposal. On the campaign trail, Trump repeatedly said that he would temporarily ban all Muslims from entering the US. Over time, this turned into “extreme vetting” and then the executive order that he signed on Friday. So even though the effect is not as far-reaching as Trump’s original Muslim ban, critics argue that the intent is still to ban Muslims from America — allowing the description of “Muslim ban” to take off.

    Indeed, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, a top adviser to Trump, told Fox News that the evolution happened because Trump asked him how to do a “Muslim ban” legally. “When he first announced it, he said ‘Muslim ban,’” Giuliani said. “He called me up. He said, ‘Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.’”

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