Back to LA, again

Recent Forum Topics Forums The Rams Huddle Back to LA, again

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  • #15680
    21Dog
    Participant

    I think I’m like you, though. I would root for the Surf for 5 years or so while rooting for the Jax/Stl Rams, and then stick with the laundry and decals and history. I had to do some soul-searching when the Rams left LA as I recall. Perhaps that was more complicated for me than you because I’m a Dodgers, Lakers, Kings fan in addition. But finally it floated to the surface to me that the zip code was irrelevant to me. I don’t live in SoCal anyway, any longer. So….city/laundry. I decided “laundry.”

    You have exquisite taste in teams.

    Just need to add Fresno St. to that list.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by 21Dog.
    #15682
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net

    n

    #15683
    OahuRam
    Participant

    Here’s a question – since we are asking St. Louis fans what they think – here’s a question for everybody.

    Suppose SK moves the Rams to LA. And a new team moves to St. Louis. Supposing the NFL goes Cleveland on this deal, and the Rams logo and horns stay in St. Louis with the new team, and Donald, Bradford, Bailey, and Quinn all play for the Los Angeles Surf. Now what? Which team do you follow?

    I am a St. Louis guy. Born and raised. With your scenario above I would not follow the team in LA. I would support my St. Louis team. But similar to now, that LA team with those players would probably be my “back up” team like the Cardinals are now for me. I dislike or root against most teams in the NFL. But because of where I have lived (San Diego) and where I have family (New Orleans) there are a few teams that I cheer for when the Rams are out of it.

    The Army brought me to Hawaii but I will always be a St. Louis guy. It was so painful when the Cardinals left in 87. I was a senior in high school when they left and it really sucked. This feels worse because it appears that the city and state are better prepared to do what is necessary to keep the team, whereas in the 80’s Civic Progress fumbled away the Cardinals and expansion. However, Kroenke seems hell bent to leave. Spend a billion to move and the value of the franchise increases by 2-3 billion. I understand it. I just don’t get it. Its like Kroenke is a corporate sociapath or something. Like he is incapable of remorse. Like he doesn’t have it. Either that or he’s been running a long con ever since his daughter got busted cheating at Mizzou and he got made fun of for having named a school building after her. I dunno. This is so depressing that I cannot even consider the things I usually do in the offseason, such as the upcoming draft, etc. I couldn’t read through the Jim Thomas chat thread. It sucks to think that they possibly won’t be in my city.

    #15684
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Either that or he’s been running a long con ever since his daughter got busted cheating at Mizzou

    Just fact-checking. And only because everyone loves a fact-checker.

    That wasn’t his daughter, it was the daughter of the daughter of Bud Walton (ie. the cheating daughter’s mother is Nancy Walton, who is Kroenke’s wife’s sister). And she cheated at USC, not Mizzou. The naming rights thing was a big deal, it just didn’t involve SK.

    The fact checker has spoken.

    b

    #15685
    OahuRam
    Participant

    Thanks ZN. All of this is giving me Alzheimer’s.

    #15686
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Thanks ZN. All of this is giving me Alzheimer’s.

    Uh…all what is?

    We were discussing curry recipes,right? (?)

    #15687
    OahuRam
    Participant

    A buddy of mine also fact-checked me. I was thinking of a former owner of the St. Louis Blues:

    “The Mizzou deal was his brother in law Bill Laurie and he named the Mizzou arena, Paige after his daughter…. That was before he traded Pronger and destroyed the Blues team”

    Carry on……such sadnesssssssss

    #15688
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Well, let’s say that St. Louis keeps the name, “Rams”.

    If St. Louis doesn’t get a team for a few years the Rams cease to exist.

    Maybe they never get a team.

    Maybe they become the Oilers.

    In a case like that I’d probably become a “Surf” fan since that’s where the players are I was following.

    It would be weird.

    Very weird.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #15689
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Well, let’s say that St. Louis keeps the name, “Rams”.

    If St. Louis doesn’t get a team for a few years the Rams cease to exist.

    Maybe they never get a team.

    Maybe they become the Oilers.

    In a case like that I’d probably become a “Surf” fan since that’s where the players are I was following.

    It would be weird.

    Very weird.

    Oooo…”the Rams cease to exist altogether” plotline.

    Good one.

    That will throw the Huddle into complete chaos. Probably already happening in one of the alternate universes.

    #15691
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    First of all to this bull about St Louis keeping the Rams name. DON’T MAKE ME LAUGH!!! If any city could keep the name of the team and the colors and the logo etc it would have been LA Keeping the Rams name in 1995. Where the hell do the St Louis fans think that their city has the right to keep the Rams name when the Rams were in LA for 50 years?!

    Did Brooklyn keep the Dodgers name? Did the Bronx keep the Giants name when they moved to SF? Did Oakland keep the Raiders name when they moved to LA in 1982?

    Did Houston keep the Oilers name when that franchise moved?

    Lets stop the BS hate LA stuff and stuff about St Louis which STOLE THE TEAM IN THE FIRST PLACE keeping the name.

    Grits

    #15692
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/how-will-la-fans-react-to-a-losing-team-espnla-host-marcellus-wiley-tells-the-fast-lane/

    Good listen. Marcellus Wiley is one of the more neutral and fair minded commentators I’ve listened to from any sports talk venue these past four years on this subject. He’s blatantly honest and for a long time he didn’t buy into the Rams moving thing but now he does and here he explains to Karraker and Farr why this is going to happen and why it will work in LA.

    Same stuff I’ve been saying since this process started in February 2012 yet people here and other boards throw Shane Gray (laughable) into my face and Soka! Really. Time to smell the coffee folks cuz its happening.

    Grits

    #15694
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    Love it ZN. Now listen to a story about a man named Stan, a poor NFL owner who owned at team called the Rams….
    His stadium sucked and he knew it but what was Stan to do? He loaded up the trucks and he moved to Inglewood!

    Grits

    #15696
    Avatar photowv
    Participant
    #15697
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    …i wonder how a move would affect the players?
    Distraction? Problems? Pluses? Minuses?

    Will they bring the equipment manager with them?

    What if Fisher goes all Hollywood on us
    and starts wearing a cape ?

    w
    v

    #15698
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Lets stop the BS hate LA stuff

    Actually let’s tone it down. Round these parts, we don’t get on posters like that. Asking a StL guy to accept the Rams moving would be like someone asking you in 95 to accept the same thing. So let’s not even go there. It’s not an attack on you if a StL guy has his own feelings on the issue, and vice versa. I’m in an interesting position on this because I don’t live in either the LA area or St.Louis but have lived in both (well Claremont for so. cal but close enough).

    Just respect persons and sound reasonable about opposing arguments. And if some positions rile us, maybe we should just shrug and say nothing. Fair enough?

    #15703
    Winnbrad
    Participant

    …i wonder how a move would affect the players?
    Distraction? Problems? Pluses? Minuses?

    Will they bring the equipment manager with them?

    What if Fisher goes all Hollywood on us
    and starts wearing a cape ?

    w
    v

    The team is my only concern. I’ve lived in NC and VA my entire life, so I don’t care which city the Rams play in.

    But moving a team is a huge deal. Lots of like distractions. And this team has enough problems as it is.

    EDIT: I would enjoy the cape, though.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Winnbrad.
    #15705
    21Dog
    Participant

    …i wonder how a move would affect the players?
    Distraction? Problems? Pluses? Minuses?

    Will they bring the equipment manager with them?

    What if Fisher goes all Hollywood on us
    and starts wearing a cape ?

    w
    v

    Who wears a cape?

    #15706
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>wv wrote:</div>
    …i wonder how a move would affect the players?
    Distraction? Problems? Pluses? Minuses?

    Will they bring the equipment manager with them?

    What if Fisher goes all Hollywood on us
    and starts wearing a cape ?

    w
    v

    The team is my only concern. I’ve lived in NC and VA my entire life, so I don’t care which city the Rams play in.

    But moving a team is a huge deal. Lots of like distractions. And this team has enough problems as it is.

    EDIT: I would enjoy the cape, though.

    Well its settled then — Fisher should wear
    a cape. But should it be blue and yellow
    or blue and white?

    Coupla good thingz (for me) about a move
    to LA:
    1) More likely to wear BLUE and WHITE
    (at least on throwback days)
    2) Outdoor stadium (I hate domes)

    Bad thingz:
    1) I am not crazy about 4 pm EST
    starting times…

    w
    v

    #15708
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/even-if-kroenke-plays-by-rules-relocating-would-be-arduous/article_460da03e-0329-58b5-977b-bc5167ce952c.html
    JT article

    see link “….The NFL recently decreed that there will be no relocation to Los Angeles by any team in 2015. And it appears the Rams will comply with that request. Team officials have told the Post-Dispatch that they will not file for relocation this year.

    But if Kroenke changes his mind and moves without league approval, there are penalties involved that weren’t there in the ’80s and ’90s.

    “The league has put in place a number of safeguards, if you will, which make it very, very, very hard for a team to … act as a rogue agent,” Trask said.

    “These safeguards are really draconian. They involve financial penalties and other penalties that really should deter teams from doing things like that without (league approval).”

    Among them are forfeitures of part of a team’s annual share of leaguewide television revenue. Another is forfeiture of a team’s share of leaguewide income from NFL Properties — the league’s merchandising arm.

    “Now some owners may assess the costs and benefits and say I’m willing to do that, I can bear the financial burden,” Trask said. “And if I have to have a fight with the league, I’ll have a fight with the league. I’m going to do it anyway.

    “But I think an owner will have to think long and hard about so doing.”
    ========================

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #15709
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    <DIV class=d4p-bbt-quote-title>wv wrote:</DIV>
    <P>…i wonder how a move would affect the players?<BR>Distraction? Problems? Pluses? Minuses?</P>
    <P>Will they bring the equipment manager with them?</P>
    <P>What if Fisher goes all Hollywood on us<BR>and starts wearing a cape ?</P>
    <P>w<BR>v</P>

    <P>Who wears a cape?</P>
    <P><IFRAME height=465 src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/KDbN9TZqFcg?feature=oembed&#8221; frameBorder=0 width=620 allowfullscreen></IFRAME></P>

    BTW, the man in the cape is Larry David…….

    #15710
    Dak
    Participant

    I don’t see anyone attacking any cities in this thread.

    This really is all about what Kroenke wants. And, I’m not surprised by the Florio article where SK says he can move if he wants, whether he gets NFL approval or not.

    If that’s the case, it’s the worst-case scenario for St. Louis, because the NFL isn’t part of this deal, and the NFL can’t even consider plans for a team in St. Louis as a contingency if the Rams are to move.

    I don’t want the Jaguars, btw. I mean, I’d rather wait another decade or so and see what else becomes available than accept another crappy franchise moving here. The Rams were bad enough, but at the time, we fans in STL were just hungry for any type of NFL football. Let’s face it, this franchise was horrible back then, and caught lightning in a bottle with DV and the GSOT. Now that the franchise seems to be heading in the right direction, SK wants to take off for L.A. And, there wasn’t anything that L.A. did or didn’t do to get this team. And, it sure wasn’t anything that St. Louis fans did (other than put up with complete futility since the GSOT). It was a Stan Kroenke strong-arm move that will make it happen. It will move Kroenke up the Fortune 400 list and make him the wealthiest owner in the NFL, and it will leave heartache behind him … both in St. Louis, and maybe the NFL in general. I mean, if Kroenke can move over the NFL’s objections, anyone can move, and what power do the NFL owners really have, then? But, honestly, I think the NFL owners all know this already, and they’re not likely to get into a big spat about this. They’re going to get richer with a team in the L.A. market, aren’t they? And, why not make Stan pay the relocation fee and avoid a court battle? No, there will be no heartache or even heartburn at NFL Inc. There will just be a team in L.A., and none in St. Louis, same as before the Rams moved here in ’95 — but more money in everybody’s pockets outside St. Louis. The best we can hope for in St. Louis is a vague promise from the NFL that St. Louis will get a replacement team if we can put together a stadium deal. I hope that’s not the Jaguars, but probably that’s the best we can hope for. In that case, I might just follow the Rams, and root for SK to contract gout or something.

    #15712
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I don’t see anyone attacking any cities in this thread.

    This really is all about what Kroenke wants. And, I’m not surprised by the Florio article where SK says he can move if he wants, whether he gets NFL approval or not.

    If that’s the case, it’s the worst-case scenario for St. Louis, because the NFL isn’t part of this deal, and the NFL can’t even consider plans for a team in St. Louis as a contingency if the Rams are to move.

    I don’t want the Jaguars, btw. I mean, I’d rather wait another decade or so and see what else becomes available than accept another crappy franchise moving here. The Rams were bad enough, but at the time, we fans in STL were just hungry for any type of NFL football. Let’s face it, this franchise was horrible back then, and caught lightning in a bottle with DV and the GSOT. Now that the franchise seems to be heading in the right direction, SK wants to take off for L.A. And, there wasn’t anything that L.A. did or didn’t do to get this team. And, it sure wasn’t anything that St. Louis fans did (other than put up with complete futility since the GSOT). It was a Stan Kroenke strong-arm move that will make it happen. It will move Kroenke up the Fortune 400 list and make him the wealthiest owner in the NFL, and it will leave heartache behind him … both in St. Louis, and maybe the NFL in general. I mean, if Kroenke can move over the NFL’s objections, anyone can move, and what power do the NFL owners really have, then? But, honestly, I think the NFL owners all know this already, and they’re not likely to get into a big spat about this. They’re going to get richer with a team in the L.A. market, aren’t they? And, why not make Stan pay the relocation fee and avoid a court battle? No, there will be no heartache or even heartburn at NFL Inc. There will just be a team in L.A., and none in St. Louis, same as before the Rams moved here in ’95 — but more money in everybody’s pockets outside St. Louis. The best we can hope for in St. Louis is a vague promise from the NFL that St. Louis will get a replacement team if we can put together a stadium deal. I hope that’s not the Jaguars, but probably that’s the best we can hope for. In that case, I might just follow the Rams, and root for SK to contract gout or something.

    Well, ok…and not to be an instigator….but…how did you feel
    when Georgia and shaw took the team away from the Los Angeles fans?
    Know what i mean. We fans love the players and the game, etc — the
    owners though….ya know.

    Corporate-Fandom is easier as a Nomad.

    w
    v

    #15713
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    they’re going to get richer with a team in the L.A. market, aren’t they?

    I hear this, but I don’t see how it’s true. I think the NFL shares a percentage of ticket sales, but there is no guarantee that a team in LA substantially increases that. I mean, once you divide it by 31, what does that percentage represent? And putting a team in LA doesn’t change the tv contracts, which is the NFL’s prime source of revenue.

    I read the rest of your post with interest. I am just picking on that one thing cause I have seen it around, but am not sure it’s true.

    #15714
    Dak
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dak wrote:</div>
    I don’t see anyone attacking any cities in this thread.

    This really is all about what Kroenke wants. And, I’m not surprised by the Florio article where SK says he can move if he wants, whether he gets NFL approval or not.

    If that’s the case, it’s the worst-case scenario for St. Louis, because the NFL isn’t part of this deal, and the NFL can’t even consider plans for a team in St. Louis as a contingency if the Rams are to move.

    I don’t want the Jaguars, btw. I mean, I’d rather wait another decade or so and see what else becomes available than accept another crappy franchise moving here. The Rams were bad enough, but at the time, we fans in STL were just hungry for any type of NFL football. Let’s face it, this franchise was horrible back then, and caught lightning in a bottle with DV and the GSOT. Now that the franchise seems to be heading in the right direction, SK wants to take off for L.A. And, there wasn’t anything that L.A. did or didn’t do to get this team. And, it sure wasn’t anything that St. Louis fans did (other than put up with complete futility since the GSOT). It was a Stan Kroenke strong-arm move that will make it happen. It will move Kroenke up the Fortune 400 list and make him the wealthiest owner in the NFL, and it will leave heartache behind him … both in St. Louis, and maybe the NFL in general. I mean, if Kroenke can move over the NFL’s objections, anyone can move, and what power do the NFL owners really have, then? But, honestly, I think the NFL owners all know this already, and they’re not likely to get into a big spat about this. They’re going to get richer with a team in the L.A. market, aren’t they? And, why not make Stan pay the relocation fee and avoid a court battle? No, there will be no heartache or even heartburn at NFL Inc. There will just be a team in L.A., and none in St. Louis, same as before the Rams moved here in ’95 — but more money in everybody’s pockets outside St. Louis. The best we can hope for in St. Louis is a vague promise from the NFL that St. Louis will get a replacement team if we can put together a stadium deal. I hope that’s not the Jaguars, but probably that’s the best we can hope for. In that case, I might just follow the Rams, and root for SK to contract gout or something.

    Well, ok…and not to be an instigator….but…how did you feel
    when Georgia and shaw took the team away from the Los Angeles fans?
    Know what i mean. We fans love the players and the game, etc — the
    owners though….ya know.

    Corporate-Fandom is easier as a Nomad.

    w
    v

    I felt bad for the diehards in L.A., I’m sure.

    Again, this is nothing against the L.A. fans. They do deserve to have the Rams back, really, if I’m being honest.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Dak.
    #15716
    Dak
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dak wrote:</div>
    they’re going to get richer with a team in the L.A. market, aren’t they?

    I hear this, but I don’t see how it’s true. I think the NFL shares a percentage of ticket sales, but there is no guarantee that a team in LA substantially increases that. I mean, once you divide it by 31, what does that percentage represent? And putting a team in LA doesn’t change the tv contracts, which is the NFL’s prime source of revenue.

    I read the rest of your post with interest. I am just picking on that one thing cause I have seen it around, but am not sure it’s true.

    OK, fair enough, but you’re looking at revenue. I’m thinking “net worth.” What’s SK worth? Where does that put him on the Fortune 500?

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Dak.
    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Dak.
    #15717
    bnw
    Blocked

    First of all to this bull about St Louis keeping the Rams name. DON’T MAKE ME LAUGH!!! If any city could keep the name of the team and the colors and the logo etc it would have been LA Keeping the Rams name in 1995. Where the hell do the St Louis fans think that their city has the right to keep the Rams name when the Rams were in LA for 50 years?!

    Did Brooklyn keep the Dodgers name? Did the Bronx keep the Giants name when they moved to SF? Did Oakland keep the Raiders name when they moved to LA in 1982?

    Did Houston keep the Oilers name when that franchise moved?

    Lets stop the BS hate LA stuff and stuff about St Louis which STOLE THE TEAM IN THE FIRST PLACE keeping the name.

    Grits

    All those examples of moves are old. The precedent is Modell’s move to Baltimore in which he couldn’t keep the Browns name. So not only keep the Rams name but the records and the Lombardi trophy too. Consider it a condition of moving the team while breaking multiple NFL rules and enriching your snake bellied weasel self as a result.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #15718
    Dak
    Participant

    Here’s another viewpoint looking at this:

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-nfl-in-la-20150106-story.html#page=1

    I think it’s possible that the stadium in L.A. could be the home of the Chargers or Raiders in the future. We don’t know how much of the partnership for that land belongs to Kroenke. He stands to make money on the deal even if the Rams stay in St. Louis, and he collects rent in L.A. while getting a sweetheart deal in St. Louis.

    I don’t know if I buy any of that. But, there’s the possibility.

    #15732
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I’ve read around on this now, and I still can’t get a grip on this.

    My assumption is that Kroenke is not a fool. I don’t think a man builds an empire, one transaction after another, after another, piling up billions of dollars without learning to conduct himself wisely. So it is hard for me to believe that SK is just smashing his way all King Kong like back to Los Angeles with no regard for NFL politics. He has been involved in the business of sports forever, the business of development forever, and the NFL for 20 years. He knows whom and what he is dealing with, and he knows the legalities of all of this both on a civic side and the NFL side.

    Consequently, I have a very hard time believing that SK is blindly stepping on toes among his co-owners, or blind-siding the league office with his procedures. I have to believe that he knows what he is doing. I don’t think he is brashly making mistakes.

    So either he has done the research and concluded that 1) the NFL will never approve of his move, and 2) he can pull it off against their wishes and still make more money than he can ever hope to make staying put

    or

    he is operating with league knowledge and approval, and all we are getting is a scripted storyline that protects the league image.

    The thing is, though, I don’t really like either one of those interpretations. I don’t doubt he can make more money in LA. Everyone knows the franchise is worth more money there, especially with stadium ownership. Beyond the value of the franchise, and the increased merchandising revenue, as well as related media ventures, he will be making god-awful amounts of money on the retail and residential properties on this piece of land. No way he can build a financial bonanza like that in St. Louis even if the city gives him property for free. So the money is in LA. But the NFL can apparently screw a bunch of money out of him, too, and they have other ways of making life difficult for him. And Stan just does not strike me as a maverick like Al Davis, willing to be a pariah on the big stage.

    And I have a hard time believing the NFL has made some kind of secret handshake deal behind the scenes that they can prevent from leaking somehow. I just don’t like either interpretation.

    And I’m vexed.

    Something is afoot here, and I don’t think anybody has put their finger on the pulse of it yet.

    Where is Matt Taibbi when you need him?

    #15746
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    the league knows and approves. i’m sure of it. they’ve known this for awhile. wouldn’t be the first shady thing they’ve done.

    i bet even peacock knows while getting assurances that st louis will get a team in the future. maybe jacksonville.

    #15750
    bnw
    Blocked

    the league knows and approves. i’m sure of it. they’ve known this for awhile. wouldn’t be the first shady thing they’ve done.

    i bet even peacock knows while getting assurances that st louis will get a team in the future. maybe jacksonville.

    Plausible.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

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