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August 9, 2015 at 4:56 am #28374znModerator
Nick Foles remains a QB enigma
9/15/2014
PHILADELPHIA — It was the run-run-reach that derailed Nick Foles.
One Mississippi. Option No. 1, covered. Two Mississippi. Pump fake to try to shake the defender, unsuccessful. Three Missis … Bam!
Sack, Chris Clemons. Strip, Chris Clemons. Fumble, Nick Foles. Recovery, Ryan Davis. Turnover.
Nick Foles was besieged by Jacksonville’s defensive line in Week 1, something he rarely faced in 2013. Eric Hartline/USA TODAY SportsNot Nick Foles. Not Mr. Reliable. Not the quarterback who threw just two interceptions and lost three fumbles in 10 regular-season starts last season for the Philadelphia Eagles.
Oh, no.
There was more, and it wasn’t pretty. The entire first half against Jacksonville in Week 1 was, to be polite, a train wreck for Foles. The first drive of the season ended with veteran defensive end Clemons’ strip sack. Clemons plowed head on into Foles, contacting the quarterback’s right arm as he began to throw.
On the Eagles’ second drive, Jaguars defensive end Andre Branch caught Foles from behind after Foles looked to his first, second and third options and then back across the field. Branch swatted at Foles’ hand, and the ball popped out. Jaguars defensive tackle Ziggy Hood fell on it. Turnover No. 2.
The next three drives produced three punts and only two first downs. Then, with the Eagles trailing 17-0 but sitting at the Jacksonville 5-yard line, Foles fired a pass to tight end Brent Celek in the end zone that was picked off by Jaguars cornerback Alan Ball. Turnover No. 3.
Six possessions. Three turnovers. Was that the real Nick Foles?
When the sample size is just 17 career regular-season starts for a quarterback who was a third-round draft pick in 2012 — the 88th overall pick, no less — it’s legitimate to question who he is as a player.
Is Foles the efficient ball protector who threw 27 touchdowns last season? Is he the guy who became the seventh player in NFL history to throw seven touchdown passes in a game — and the first to do so with a perfect quarterback rating of 158.3? Does he really deserve to have his jersey hanging in the Pro Football Hall of Fame next to Peyton Manning’s? Should he be mentioned in the same breath as Aaron Rodgers, Manning and Tom Brady, who hold the four highest single-season passer ratings in NFL history, with Foles checking in at No. 3 with his 119.2 rating last season?
The answer isn’t sexy: Maybe.
“I think he’s legit,” one AFC general manager said. “I like him. But, Chip Kelly has taken average quarterbacks and won with them before.”
“He’s got talent,” said an NFC defensive coordinator whose team will face the Eagles later this season. “He’s big. He doesn’t make a lot of mistakes. But for as fast as they like to run, he doesn’t always make the quickest decisions.”
Which is where run-run-reach came into play.
In watching film from last season, the Jaguars saw what others have seen: Foles has a tendency to hold on to the ball too long. When he has to go through his progressions and find second or third reads, he can be hesitant, which leads to sacks.
The Jaguars thought if they could play solid zone coverage against the Eagles, their pass-rushers could get to Foles, which is exactly what happened in the first half.
“We knew if we started fast, he’d hold on to the ball a little bit, because they run long-developing routes,” Clemons said. “We knew if we could get to him, we’d go for what we call the run-run-reach, which is coming from behind and swiping the ball. When they can’t see you, it’s easy.”
Greg Cosell, executive producer of ESPN’s “NFL Matchup” show, has watched every snap Foles has taken as a pro. Cosell said the Eagles faced man coverage last season primarily from defenses that reacted to Philadelphia’s tempo. Cosell expects that teams will emulate what the New Orleans Saints did in a playoff win at Philadelphia in January and what Jacksonville did in Week 1: be more proactive and aggressive, particularly if the Eagles continue to have issues on their offensive line.
Last season, the Eagles’ starting offensive line of left tackle Jason Peters, left guard Evan Mathis, center Jason Kelce, right guard Todd Herremans and right tackle Lane Johnson started all 16 games and played 98.3 percent of the offensive snaps together. Kelce is one of the top centers in the game, and Peters is considered by many to be the most technically sound tackle in the league.
This season, Johnson is serving a four-game suspension for violating the NFL’s policy on performance-enhancing drugs. His replacement, Allen Barbre, suffered an ankle injury against the Jaguars and is now on season-ending injured reserve. Mathis sprained his MCL against Jacksonville and is on IR but designated to return in late October at the earliest.
That means, in all likelihood, that Foles will have even less time in the pocket. Plays will have to develop much more quickly.
“I think he has a tendency not to see things clearly,” Cosell said. “When he doesn’t see things clearly, he holds the ball. Because he’s not a quick-twitch athlete, he doesn’t look good when he’s in the pocket for longer periods of time. I think he ultimately needs the system to help him play.
“Do I think Nick Foles will ever be an Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers? No. Can he be a successful quarterback? Absolutely.”
“Who is Nick Foles?” That was the headline on a Philadelphia Magazine profile of Foles this summer. “Bland Ambition” was the headline for a Philadelphia Inquirer column on Foles.
That Foles is relatively unknown to the public and perceived as boring is by design. Foles is a private guy.
He grew up in Austin, Texas, and played football and basketball at Westlake High School, Drew Brees’ alma mater. Foles went to Michigan State but was buried on the depth chart behind Brian Hoyer, with a redshirt named Kirk Cousins waiting in the wings. After Foles’ freshman year, he transferred to Arizona and started for 2½ seasons.
Former Eagles offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg fell in love with Foles in college and convinced then-Eagles coach Andy Reid to draft Foles in 2012. Foles started six games late that season before breaking his right hand in the next-to-last game against Washington.
After Chip Kelly became Philadelphia’s head coach in 2013, Foles competed for the starting job with Michael Vick, eventually losing the competition in training camp. But he became the starter after Vick injured a hamstring in Week 5 against the New York Giants and remained in that role the rest of the season.
Even after the team acquired former New York Jets starter Mark Sanchez this past offseason, Foles entered the season as the undisputed starter. His teammates said neither his demeanor nor approach changed.
“What’s the Teddy Roosevelt quote? ‘Speak softly and carry a big stick.’ I think that describes Nick very well,” Kelce said. “He’s not going to be a guy that’s going to be down-talking people. He’s very much an enthusiastic, let’s-go guy, a very encouragement-based leader, and he’s always asserting himself. He’s not soft-spoken, but he’s also not out there commanding and being an overwhelming type guy.”
The newly married Foles makes a habit of going out with his offensive teammates on Thursday or Friday night each week, whether it’s somewhere in downtown Philadelphia, South Jersey or just a teammate’s house.
Sometimes Foles, who is still playing on his rookie contract, picks up the tab, but Kelce said, “We don’t put that on him. … As of right now, he’s making the least out of any of the starters, pretty much, so that’d be unfair to him.”
Eagles offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur likened Foles to another young quarterback with whom Shurmur worked: St. Louis’ Sam Bradford.
“Sam Bradford’s personality is very similar to Nick’s,” Shurmur said. “Very quiet, not overly boisterous. They’ll go to a party, but they don’t have to be the life of one. Nick’s that type of guy, but when he’s standing there, everybody knows who’s in charge.”
So is it realistic to expect Foles to duplicate last season’s production over the course of a 16-game regular season?
“I think if you’re asking if it’s legit, that’s almost like saying last season was a fluke, and I don’t think it was,” Herremans said. “I think Nick’s a great player. I think he’s a very good decision-maker, and that’s kind of what produced those numbers.”
After that abysmal first half against Jacksonville, the Eagles did not panic. Kelly’s message in the locker room was clear: Keep doing what you’re doing; it will work.
Kick-started by a 49-yard Darren Sproles touchdown run on the Eagles’ first drive of the second half, Philadelphia reeled off 34 unanswered points to win the game 34-17. In the second half, Foles completed 15 of 21 passes for 183 yards, two touchdowns and no interceptions. After getting sacked five times in the first half, he wasn’t sacked in the second.
It was one game, just the 17th start from a third-year quarterback who will continue to grow. What will Foles become?
“The sample isn’t large enough,” Cosell said. “Nick is a young quarterback working his way through a system. Now, defensive coaches have had a season to study and will play them differently. As a young, inexperienced quarterback, he’s going to have to figure out what defenses are doing. So it’s a growth process. None of this is abnormal.”
August 9, 2015 at 5:11 am #28375znModeratorCosell on Nick Foles
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2014/10/02/inside-voices-6/#fLD7zQjYI4shzS7Y.99
October 2, 2014
NFL Films Senior Producer Greg Cosell doesn’t see a different Nick Foles when he watches the tape, but rather a quarterback that is facing a new set of obstacles.
Really, it’s the defenses that are changing in Cosell’s view. Take, for instance, the Redskins and Niners. Both units largely remained in their base 3-4 against three-receiver sets when playing the Eagles, he said, which made it that much more difficult for the ground game to get going. With the run game stymied, Foles is frequently finding himself in third-and-longs .
“When Foles gets into more long-yardage situations — it’s tougher for any quarterback, that’s not just Nick Foles — but Foles is not the kind of quarterback that is going to stand in the pocket, sit on his back foot and drill the ball consistently between defenders,” he said.
Not only is Foles in a tougher spot when it comes to down and distance, but the windows he is being asked to throw into are often tighter than they were a year ago in Cosell’s opinion.
“Last year because all of this was new to defensive coordinators, we all agree that it looked last year like there were a ton of open receivers, which doesn’t happen that much in the NFL,” said Cosell.
“I think if you look at Foles the player, what you likely see is this: He’s got a good arm but not a gun; he’s not a power thrower, not a drive thrower. He’s a little more of a finesse thrower than a drive thrower. He does not have quick feet. There is no quick-twitch to his movement. There’s no explosive lower-body movement to him. When you look at Foles, I think what you see is a quarterback that needs the system to work for him and provide defined reads and good throws with the route concepts, just the whole system. He needs the system to work for him…
“I don’t think he’s really any different [from last year]. Because he’s not a quick-twitch guy, when he doesn’t feel comfortable making a throw he’ll start to look a little awkward because he’s not quick twitch, he moves around. There’s been more of that this year and I think that’s because defenses have done a really good job with the Eagles. Now it’s up to the Eagles to respond.”
August 9, 2015 at 5:22 am #28376znModeratorEagles QB Nick Foles Has Mental Problems
Oct 31, 2014
http://eaglesaddict.com/2014/10/eagles-qb-nick-foles-has-mental-problems/#.VccrlbWsR1g
Yes, Eagles QB Nick Foles has mental problems. No, he’s not about to be taken away in a straight jacket, I’m talking about his mental prowess as it relates to the game of football.
Back in July, I wrote an article in response to some “hype” Foles was getting and talked about Foles still having plenty to prove this season. Well, we’re seven games into the season and I still don’t know exactly what to make of him.
He’s had some good moments and several bad ones. We all knew coming into this season that repeating his statistical performance of last year wasn’t going to happen. Just as we couldn’t look at his brilliant stats from last year and anoint him the next great thing, we can’t look at his severely uneven stats this year and anoint him as the next Kevin Kolb or Bobby Hoying.
That’s why I’m throwing stats out of the window for right now and just concentrate on what I’ve seen with my own two eyes.
What I’m seeing from Foles is a quarterback who is mentally struggling. He is hesitating too often, he’s feeling pressure that isn’t there at times, his decision-making appears panicked at other times and he is not seeing the field well (i.e., he’s not seeing wide open receivers).
Foles is a young player and what it seems we’re seeing is what could be the most “Captain Obvious” type of answer:
He’s still in the midst of learning how to be a quarterback in the NFL.
What I’m trying to say is that Foles doesn’t have the physical talent to compensate for a lack of talent with the mental aspect of the game. Foles’ career will ultimately be decided by how quickly he can mentally process the game at a pace that is fast enough to make the correct decisions with the football.
Think how other lesser athletic QBs who have excelled in the NFL have done it. Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and Phillip Rivers have all had varying degrees of sustained success because of their mental acuity on the field.
Don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say…I’m not saying Foles has to be Peyton Manning, I’m saying that for him to be as successful as he’s ever going to be, he will have to master Chip Kelly’s offense from a mental standpoint.
Foles is still not fully confident in what he’s doing. If his first read isn’t there, that’s when his struggles begin. He doesn’t seem to calmly go to his second and third reads and be decisive with the football. Instead, he hesitates. That hesitation means the pressure is coming from the pass rush and panic starts to set in.
That’s why he ends up making bad decisions and off-balance throws.
My guess is that Foles is truly relying on what Chip Kelly is teaching him. Foles wants to be the perfect student to Kelly’s teachings and is trying to perform the way his coach wants him to. Kelly has a few simplistic, yet strong stances on the play of the quarterback.
He believes that when a QB is sacked, most times it’s the fault of the QB for simply not throwing it away (“if it’s not there, throw it away and line up again”). He also wants a QB with “repetitive accuracy” and detests interceptions. Decision-making is key for a Chip Kelly quarterback.
Kelly is lauded for his offensive attack and when you listen to him talk about it, he seems to infer that it’s really a simple thing: find the mismatch and exploit it.
Perhaps Foles is somewhat intimidated by Kelly’s approach and it’s making him “think” much more than he’s ever been used to doing. Because, that’s what it really seems like…Foles is thinking too much and it’s delaying his decision-making.
When you hear Foles say after almost every game that he’s “learning”, maybe that’s exactly the truth. He still has to learn how to engineer the offensive machine that Kelly has implemented.
The million dollar question is, will he ever learn it well enough to be consistently successful? Will he ever truly “master” it?
Or is it what we see now is what we’re going to get? There is such a thing as “scheme fit” which is why you see some players fail on one team but become solid players on another.
Is Nick Foles truly a fit for Kelly’s offense? If the season ended today and we had to go on what he’s done to this point, I’d be drafting another QB in April.
He has the rest of this season to continue his learning and show that he has what it takes. I don’t care about stats…if what I’m actually seeing on the field doesn’t improve significantly, I’ll be on the “we need another QB bandwagon” come the offseason.
I came into this year with cautious optimism regarding Foles as our next “franchise quarterback.” At just about the halfway point, that optimism has taken a slight hit.
August 9, 2015 at 6:24 am #28383AgamemnonParticipantAugust 9, 2015 at 6:31 am #28384znModeratorI don’t know who wrote the last article, but it seems to ring true or rings the most true.
I forgot the link. It’s there now, via the magic of “edit.”
Why does it ring the most true, or what rings true about it?
August 9, 2015 at 6:47 am #28387AgamemnonParticipantI don’t know who wrote the last article, but it seems to ring true or rings the most true.
I forgot the link. It’s there now, via the magic of “edit.”
Why does it ring the most true, or what rings true about it?
It seems to give the best explanation for Foles performance. Why he started having problems in 2014. For one thing, he has to improve the mental part of his game. imo
The more the defense makes him think, the worse he performs. Of course, this is all relative and it is something he will get better at. imo
- This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Agamemnon.
August 9, 2015 at 8:47 am #28389wvParticipantquotes from the articles:
“I think he has a tendency not to see things clearly,” Cosell said. “When he doesn’t see things clearly, he holds the ball. Because he’s not a quick-twitch athlete, he doesn’t look good when he’s in the pocket for longer periods of time. I think he ultimately needs the system to help him play. Do I think Nick Foles will ever be an Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers? No. Can he be a successful quarterback? Absolutely.”
“The sample isn’t large enough,” Cosell said. “Nick is a young quarterback working his way through a system. Now, defensive coaches have had a season to study and will play them differently. As a young, inexperienced quarterback, he’s going to have to figure out what defenses are doing. So it’s a growth process. None of this is abnormal.”
Cosell:“When Foles gets into more long-yardage situations — it’s tougher for any quarterback, that’s not just Nick Foles — but Foles is not the kind of quarterback that is going to stand in the pocket, sit on his back foot and drill the ball consistently between defenders,” he said.
Cosell: “I think if you look at Foles the player, what you likely see is this: He’s got a good arm but not a gun; he’s not a power thrower, not a drive thrower. He’s a little more of a finesse thrower than a drive thrower. He does not have quick feet. There is no quick-twitch to his movement. There’s no explosive lower-body movement to him. When you look at Foles, I think what you see is a quarterback that needs the system to work for him and provide defined reads and good throws with the route concepts, just the whole system. He needs the system to work for him…“I don’t think he’s really any different [from last year]. Because he’s not a quick-twitch guy, when he doesn’t feel comfortable making a throw he’ll start to look a little awkward because he’s not quick twitch, he moves around. There’s been more of that this year and I think that’s because defenses have done a really good job with the Eagles. Now it’s up to the Eagles to respond.
Kelce: “He’s not going to be a guy that’s going to be down-talking people. He’s very much an enthusiastic, let’s-go guy, a very encouragement-based leader, and he’s always asserting himself. He’s not soft-spoken, but he’s also not out there commanding and being an overwhelming type guy.”
Dave Stossel: Foles is still not fully confident in what he’s doing. If his first read isn’t there, that’s when his struggles begin. He doesn’t seem to calmly go to his second and third reads and be decisive with the football. Instead, he hesitates. That hesitation means the pressure is coming from the pass rush and panic starts to set in.That’s why he ends up making bad decisions and off-balance throws…When you hear Foles say after almost every game that he’s “learning”, maybe that’s exactly the truth. He still has to learn how to engineer the offensive machine that Kelly has implemented.
August 9, 2015 at 10:25 am #28391wvParticipantComparisons — Kerry Collins ?
w
v
Date of birth: December 30, 1972 (age 42)
Place of birth: Lebanon, Pennsylvania
Height: 6 ft 5 in (1.96 m)
Weight: 247 lb (112 kg)Carolina Panthers (1995–1998)
New Orleans Saints (1998)
New York Giants (1999–2003)
Oakland Raiders (2004–2005)
Tennessee Titans (2006–2010)
Indianapolis Colts (2011)Career highlights and awards
2× Pro Bowl (1996, 2008)
NFC Champion (2000)
Consensus All-American (1994)
Maxwell Award (1994)
Davey O’Brien Award (1994)
Sammy Baugh Award (1994)
College Quarterback of the Year (1994)
NY Giants single season record for passing yards (4,073) set in 2002, since brokenCareer NFL statistics
TD–INT: 208–196
Passing yards: 40,922
Passer rating: 73.8 -
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