what ails the passing game?

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  • #33361
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net

    CoachO

    IMO Foles is the biggest reason for the offensive performance at this point. I’ve said this from the first day of training camp. He has the arm to make all the throws. His issue is reading what the defenses are doing. When his first read is there and he can get the ball out “on time” he’s fine. When he has to go thru his progressions or look to a secondary option he gets jittery in the pocket and more often than not he makes an ill advised throw (usually off his back foot) into coverage.

    I also don’t think he is very accurate. There have been countless throws that go down as “drops” by the receivers that are either high or behind them. One example that I can use is the last play of the Pittsburgh game. Britt has to go high to catch a pass and when he is taken to the ground the ball comes loose. Britt is tagged with a drop. Yet the throw itself was the issue.

    Also I think he tends to want to throw the ball outside the numbers way too much. He hesitates to get the ball to guys going across the field. Can’t count the number of times he has overthrown Austin on a basic out route. Sailing the ball over his head. But doesn’t seem to want to throw the same routes to Quick. Who by the way has been on the field a whole lot more than most realize but just doesn’t get the targets.

    Then you have Bailey running underneath routes from the slot and Foles won’t look at him unless he’s outside the numbers. And forget about Quick running a deep dig route. Foles never looks in the middle of the field unless it’s to force a throw to Cook.

    I hate to say this but I see a lot of Kellon Clemens in Foles albeit with a better arm. When he steps in to a deep dig route and completes that throw with any consistency then I may believe he can be something more. But I don’t recall him even attempting one single throw on a deep crossing route all year.

    The other thing I’ll say. And this is on Cignetti and the scheme. Where are the slants to Britt and Quick? These big body receivers should be automatic whenever they want it maybe a first down slant on occasion? Being asked to run deep sideline routes and not much more. Britt is targeted at least 3 times a game but yet isn’t asked to run a slant utilizing his size and strength. Say what you want about either Quick or Britt. You use them the same way Palmer uses Fitzgerald and Floyd and I think you might be shocked at the results.

    The problem for me is I’m seeing the same issues 7 games into the season that I raised throughout training camp. Jittery in the pocket when his first read isn’t there. And forces throws into coverage. And an overall lack of accuracy. He has to shoulder a lot of the blame for the number of hits he takes because he tends to hold the ball too long when the first read isn’t there. And often the hits he takes are when he bails on the pocket. The pass blocking isn’t the issue until Foles had to look for something other than his first option. Then he tends to get panicky and usually bales on the pocket. Again. If this is such a concern then the best way to minimize the negative impact is get the ball out quick. Slants and swing passes. Not five step deep fades or drag routes that force him to hold the ball.

    Look I’m not trying to say there haven’t been issues in the offensive line. But just because a QB takes a hit doesn’t automatically mean it’s on the OLINE.

    • This topic was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by Avatar photozn.
    #33365
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i felt like he had a clean pocket today. not a lot of pressure, and he still struggled. so either the receivers aren’t getting open. or foles isn’t making the right decisions. i don’t have a clue which one it is. my best guess is it’s a combination of both. connor cook in 2016?

    The other thing I’ll say. And this is on Cignetti and the scheme. Where are the slants to Britt and Quick? These big body receivers should be automatic whenever they want it maybe a first down slant on occasion? Being asked to run deep sideline routes and not much more. Britt is targeted at least 3 times a game but yet isn’t asked to run a slant utilizing his size and strength. Say what you want about either Quick or Britt. You use them the same way Palmer uses Fitzgerald and Floyd and I think you might be shocked at the results.

    maybe there’s something to this too.

    #33366
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    The Rams Need More From Their Passing Game

    Bernie Miklasz

    http://www.101sports.com/2015/11/01/the-rams-need-more-from-their-passing-game/

    When it comes to passing the football, the Rams aren’t exactly delivering an impersonation of Air Coryell, or the Greatest Show on Turf. The 2015 Rams’ passing attack (if that’s the word) would have had Don Coryell and Mike Martz frustrated, embarrassed and on the verge of an emotional unmooring.

    But this 2015 is what it is.

    You mean, other than the sensational running back Todd Gurley?
    Well, this:

    — An offense that’s an extension of Jeff Fisher Football. Run the ball and defend. Run it some more, defend again. Run the clock down, and defend until the opponent surrenders.

    — An offense that has the NFL’s least experienced offensive line.

    — An offense that has a mostly mediocre cast of wide receivers and tight ends.

    — An offense being guided by a first-time offensive coordinator, Frank Cignetti.

    — An offense that has a new quarterback, Nick Foles.
    The imagination is limited. The creativity is limited. The scope is limited. The points-scored total is definitely limited.
    Will it change? There’s some hope, yes. But if the Rams are to emerge as a serious, rest-of-season threat to the first-place Arizona Cardinals in the NFC West, they’ll have to do more damage through the air.
    That said, the Rams did hang 27 points on the 49ers Sunday. And with Gurley in the house, the Rams have their first true threat, their first big-play performer, since Marshal Faulk’s knees creaked to retirement after the 2005 season.

    The offense remains under construction.

    Is that an excuse? Hardly.

    There are no excuses.

    I’m just reaffirming the reality of the circumstances.

    I don’t run the Rams. I just write about them.

    Fisher and GM Les Snead drafted, signed or traded for the players that line up on offense. Fisher and the offensive staff coaches them. When Brian Schottenheimer left as the Rams’ offensive coordinator to take the same job on the collegiate level at Georgia, Fisher had a chance to go outside of the organization to bring in a new OC, but he promoted inside the team’s walls by elevating Cignetti.

    This passing game was stocked by Fisher and Snead, and devised by Fisher’s coordinator and staff, and executed by players installed by the current regime at Rams Park.

    Yes, you can win games by going repeatedly with Gurley and waiting for him to carry this burden on captivating runs. And he’s done a remarkable, odds-defying job of that so far. But unless Gurley is planning on running all the way to Canton and the Pro Football Hall of Fame right away, he can’t continue to do this by himself … even though he’s mostly been doing it by himself for the last four games. At some point, he’ll be stuffed and held to a low rushing total in a game.

    The Rams have to give Gurley help. They have to cultivate a passing game that can burn defenses for loading up the box to squish Gurley under a pile of defensive linemen, linebackers and safeties.

    A few token suggestions:

    They Rams need to make more frequent use of play-action passes; Foles has been successful on those throws in Philadelphia and with St. Louis.
    The Rams need to use of the middle of the field more frequently. They concentrate their passing game on the outside, and it’s become predictable.
    And though the no-huddle offense was ineffective early against San Francisco, it’s too early to junk it.

    Use the running backs in the passing game; the Rams have gotten some good gains with short stuff to their backs.

    Why don’t the Rams go with quicker, shorter routes — like the slants?
    The passing game can be perked up by trying some different things.
    Because of the defense and Gurley, the Rams clobbered Cleveland and San Francisco for two consecutive wins and a 53-12 scoring differential despite converting only 2 of 21 third-down plays. Ugh.

    That said, there were a few positives on Sunday including:

    — The all-purpose shaking and baking by Tavon Austin, who had 119 yards and
    two touchdowns from scrimmage against the Niners. The haul: four catches for 98 yards, including a 66-yard catch-and-vanish touchdown that made the win a formality. And three rushes for 21 yards including a two-yard yard TD that put the Rams up by 14 points (20-6) at the half. True statement: Cignetti is getting more production out of Austin that Schottenheimer ever did.

    — Foles had a 101.9 passer rating and an average of 8.3 yards per passing attempt. Granted, both numbers were inflated by Austin’s ability to elude defenders in his 66-yard streak for a touchdown.

    — Foles hasn’t been intercepted during this two-game winning streak. In the Fisher Football formula, it’s essential for a quarterback to avoid giving gifts to the defense. The Rams have to make as few mistakes as possible on offense.

    — And as part of the Fisher Football template, the quarterback has to do his part in finishing off opponents after Gurley and the defense batters away to build a lead. In the last two wins, Foles has played well in the second half, completing 11 of 15 passes, averaging 11.53 yards per attempt, hooking up with Austin for a touchdown, and avoiding interceptions.

    — The Rams’ young offensive line gave up two sacks in the win over Cleveland, and didn’t allow a sack in the victory over the 49ers.

    — Well, now … Jared Cook lives. The enigmatic tight end has mostly been on the receiving end of booing and derision this season. Dropped passes and loose handling of the football have increased Cook’s disapproval rating with the public. It’s no wonder. But this offense can’t grow and become more threatening unless Cook reemerges as a middle-field presence to make the defense pay attention to him. He’ll have to rebound, or this passing offense will stay flat and continue to stagnate. As I said on my radio show last week, the Rams can’t give up on Cook. They have to get him going, and revive his confidence. Accordingly, Foles connected with Cook on a huge play in the second quarter against the Niners. Cook got free down the left hash, pulled in Foles’ throw, banged his way past two 49ers, and was dragged down inside the 5-yard line after a 49-yard gain that set up Austin’s touchdown dive at the right pylon. It was a big moment in the win.

    — The Rams have a good SEC combo working in the backfield. In providing quality relief for Georgia’s Gurley, Auburn football alum Tre Mason carried 15 times for 46 yards. Mason didn’t have much free space, but he was able to squirm for the available yards. Mason did a good job, and the Rams will need more of this from him. As great as Gurley is, he’s still on the way back from knee surgery. And though Gurley is in the clear medically, the Rams have to avoid overextending him. That’s where Mason comes in.

    Thanks for reading …

    #33370
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Well, I do not value Foles highly. Didn’t see anything in pre-season that made me a fan, and he has shown me no progress through the first half of the season. I just see a lot of 3 yard passes, with an occasional deep throw, and a lot of inaccuracy. I’d like to see more over the middle, too, and as both CoachO and Bernie point out, Quick and Britt seem like guys who could run slants.

    But the WRs aren’t winning me over, either. It’s not like I see lots of wide open guys Foles isn’t throwing to, and today Foles seemed to drop a deep pass right into Britt’s bread basket that he just dropped. They didn’t show a replay, so I dunno, but that looked to be all on Britt.

    But these WRs and Foles aren’t even doing a MEDIOCRE job.

    This offense has got to get its act together, and RISE TO MEDIOCRITY!!!

    #33371
    Avatar photoAgamemnon
    Participant

    The Rams have 3 QB coaches on their staff, if you count Garcia, who was almost hired as a QB coach. Weinke, he is the official QB coach and Cignetti who was the QB coach. So, they should know who Foles is and what he can do.

    They are probably having Foles do what he does best when it comes to calling plays and what routes the WRs run.

    Foles still has a lot to learn about playing QB in the NFL. As things progress they should start having Foles do more things and he should get more reps and execute better. imo

    Agamemnon

    #33376
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I started out with an “it’s Foles” post but this is very multi-faceted. So just starting with that post doesn’t indicate that I am setting up a proxy post to say “it’s Foles.” There are things I disagree with in CoachO’s account, but it’s not stupid fighting disagreement, it’s just minds cogitating and trying to think of a lot things kind of disagreement. For example, I am not sure Foles trusts the line, and is acting like it. So even when he’s not under heavy direct pressure, the OL struggles seem to have an effect on him.

    #33377
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    one thing i liked about today’s game was that the running backs got more involved in the passing game. i want to see more of that.

    just thinking out loud. but what if the rams sent tavon one way on a jet sweep. fake the sweep and have gurley run a pattern out onto the flat on the other side. get the defenses stretched out and watch gurley take off. don’t know if that would even work. just thinking out loud.

    i also like the comments about not using the middle of the field enough. maybe they’re not utilizing enough of the field and making it too easy to defend the receivers. or maybe foles is just too limited.

    #33384
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Well, it is interesting to me that the WR’s on this team are pretty much an afterthought. The Rams go to great lengths to get Tavon involved (and rightly so) and also have plenty of plays designed to go to the tight ends but Bailey, Quick and Britt are really under-utilized. Cignetti needs to get them more involved in the offense – hopefully starting this week.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    #33388
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I agree that its multifaceted. I dont think its a big mystery:
    New OC, New QB, Cook is Cook, Kendricks has the injury, the Young OLine
    has been abused a lot. Seems to me its ‘mainly’ been the OLine.
    I think a lot of Foles issues are directly related to
    bulgerization.

    One thing i am impressed with about these WR’s is
    their blocking. They are really showing up
    in that regard. They seem to take pride in it.

    Its fair to expect some improvement with this
    group as the games go by. But it ‘would’
    be nice if they could add a Calvin Johnson
    to the unit next year 🙂
    Seriously, they need a third weapon.
    Someone besides Tavon and Gurley.

    w
    v

    #33390
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    they definitely need a third guy to complement the gurley austin duo. it shoulda been cook but it’s apparent that’s not going to happen.

    and cignetti is still learning. never been an nfl coordinator before. perhaps fisher was a bit short sighted putting so much inexperience on the table with the oc and the oline.

    thinking about it more and more. while foles is definitely limited there’s definitely other factors coming into play. but i want to see progress. if i can get that then next year becomes even bigger. as it is i think the rams can still make the playoffs this year.

    #33392
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Mike Clay ‏@MikeClayNFL 4m4 minutes ago
    Rams have more than one passing touchdown in one game this season (Cardinals, Week 4)

    —————————————————————————————————————–

    Even Fisher is scared of the passing game. He’s more concerned they’ll screw up than do something right. Their own coach doesn’t have much confidence in it–no matter what he says. And sadly, he’s probably right.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by PA Ram.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #33394
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net

    TackleDummy

    When the Rams went all out and drafted 5 OL the handwriting was on the wall. They would go into this season with an extremely inexperienced OL. And the type of OL they drafted were better suited to run blocking than pass blocking. They will learn and eventually be pretty good. But not this year.

    If the five starting OL could give Foles an extra half a second or so on average while at the same time do it without added help from two tight end sets then you would see the receivers getting open more often, especially when you would see more three and four WR sets. But too often you see only two receivers downfield and even then Foles has to get rid of the ball quickly.

    It is easy to blame Foles. It is easy to blame the receivers. And of course there is always the coaches for scapegoats. But, by design, the Rams blew up their OL and started over. And it wasn’t for 2015 but for later.

    #33395
    Avatar photoEternal Ramnation
    Participant

    Coach O is so knowledgeable on the coach-able stuff he makes some good points. I look at the one constant on offense over the last four seasons. It’s Fisher. Look at the offenses he had at TN and you see the same stuff coming up over and over. I can’t blame the OC because we’ve seen this now through how many OC’s ? Almost 16 years ago to try and tie/win the Super Bowl Fisher goes with a pass to a big strong physical wr best known for his blocking in the run game .

    #33396
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    Foles had a 101.9 passer rating and an average of 8.3 yards per passing attempt. Granted, both numbers were inflated by Austin’s ability to elude defenders in his 66-yard streak for a touchdown.

    I never would have guessed Foles had a 101.9 passer rating yesterday until I read this thread… I had to double check on Agamemnon’s box score PDF thread to validate that number. Unbelievable.

    Other than his completion to Jared Cook that set up Tavon’s “pylon TD”, Foles didn’t hit any of his receivers in stride.

    Foles just doesn’t seem to make throws unless the receiver makes adjustments to try to make the catch. Foles hung it up on Britt’s drop, missed Baily, underthrew Tavon and missed a wide open TE on a 3rd down play in the 1st half, it don’t remember who the TE was. Foles also should have been picked off by SF DB Brock in the endzone on a terrible helium balloon floater; luckily Brock couldn’t get both feet inbounds…

    I can also understand Tavon’s fumble on the Foles’ pass because Foles hung up the ball like punt and Tavon had to comeback for it to make the that catch when he fumbled.

    We’re back to the future folks: it’s 1983 through 1985…

    1) Rams have a very decent Defense.
    2) A great feature RB
    3) A HC with USC ties
    3) A lousy QB… Rams have a mixture of Jeff Kemp, Steve Dils and Dieter Brock rolled into Foles.

    The only thing missing from the DeLorean Time Machine is playing home games in So Cal.

    #33403
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I can also understand Tavon’s fumble on the Foles’ pass because Foles hung up the ball like punt and Tavon had to comeback for it to make the that catch when he fumbled.

    We’re back to the future folks: it’s 1983 through 1985…

    1) Rams have a very decent Defense.
    2) A great feature RB
    3) A HC with USC ties
    3) A lousy QB… Rams have a mixture of Jeff Kemp, Steve Dils and Dieter Brock rolled into Foles.

    The only thing missing from the DeLorean Time Machine is playing home games in So Cal.

    ——————————

    I dunno, but I probly like Foles more than most on the board.
    I see him more as a Billy Kilmer type than a Kemp/Dils type.
    I think he’s got some serious toughness and clutchness to him,
    and i think the players would march through hell for him.

    w
    v

    #33407
    Dak
    Participant

    I think Foles is OK, most games, and would be significantly better if he trusted his O-line. But, you have to give him credit for a few good throws a game that move the team downfield. He’s hit some players in stride who have dropped the ball (Kendricks against Pittsburgh is one), and his ball was catchable enough in Philly, so I don’t know if I buy that it’s Foles’ lack of accuracy causing drops. If I could, please, I’d suggest our WRs make a play once in a while to help the QB.

    Austin’s TD was all Austin after he caught the ball, but Foles did recognize his read right away and got the ball to him quickly. You have to give the QB credit for that much.

    When I watch the game, I see an O-line often getting pushed back on the pass rush. And, I sense that Foles doesn’t trust the line. It goes back to getting clobbered for a few weeks in a row, especially against Green Bay. H

    I don’t know why the Rams aren’t completing more passes in the middle of the field, but it’s crossed my mind, too. There was one pass to Bailey where he alligator-armed it. But, I can’t think of many other patterns like that.

    #33410
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    but against the niners, he was untouched. now maybe he is getting bulgerized. i don’t know. but some of it is him. he might be closer to the foles of last year than the one who played two years ago.

    the one think i won’t fault fisher for is having a run based offense. it works. seattle proved it. going to a more pass based offense isn’t going to suddenly make foles a better qb. a good qb can play in any system. now that’s not to say i think foles is necessarily doomed. again. i’ll just let the whole year play out before making any concrete judgments. right now it’s not looking great. but again. lots of moving parts right now.

    the one thing i will fault him for is the young oline. but what are ya gonna do? they looked better. but it was against a weak pass rush. again. this could work out in the end in that they have at least 3 really young promising prospects. they can only get better.

    personnel decisions regarding wide receivers haven’t looked good either. for whatever reason they’ve picked disappointments in free agency and the draft outside of tavon austin. i was hoping bailey could emerge this year, but that hasn’t happened. quick is slowly becoming a bust as is the signing of britt.

    i also wonder if the rams offense would have been better off with a veteran offensive coordinator. but again. who was even available? and would they even want to take on a project like this under a conservative head coach such as jeff fisher?

    #33411
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    also want to add this.

    seattle in the 2 years they made it to the superbowl the passing offense ranked a remarkable 26th and 27th in the league. so the rams rank 31st this year. i think a rise in the rankings to the low 20s would be enough. high teens would be even better. but it’s not such a gap as one would think.

    the main thing they need to do??? they need to get better on third downs!!! they absolutely stink on third downs. so what does that mean? does the offense lack confidence? i don’t know. but i hope cigs can figure it out.

    #33412
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    the other main difference? seattle was averaging around 7-8 ypa during those 2 seasons. something like 8.5 in 2013 and 7.5 in 2014. rams right now are at 7.0. can they get it up to 8.0?

    they need to get the mid range passing game going. they need to use the middle of the field. cigs better figure this out.

    #33492
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net

    jrry32

    I pulled some stats on Pro Football Reference to investigate how often we were using our HBs in the passing game on first and second down (I felt they are being under-utilized when those sort of throws are often safe and generate positive yardage). However, I found something very interesting.

    Here are Nick Foles’s stats on first and second down only:
    78/116
    67.2% Completion%
    946 yards
    8.2 YPA
    2 TDs
    1 Int
    94.3 QB Rating
    9 Sacks
    7.2% Sack%

    Aside from the abnormally low QB Rating, these are outstanding numbers.

    Here are Foles’s stats on third down only:
    32/69
    46.4% completion%
    364 yards
    5.3 YPA
    5 TDs
    4 Ints
    62.7 QB Rating
    2 Sacks
    2.8% Sack%

    It’s very weird to me to see that sort of change in a QB’s numbers. It’s also very weird that his TD% jumps to the extent it does on 3rd downs. But still, what is it about 3rd down that transforms Foles from a (in terms of stats) Matt Ryan type QB to a Brandon Weeden like QB?

    I recognize that the receivers, OL, and coaching all share blame. But it just seems so odd how different these numbers are.

    In fact, the average drop in QB Rating on 3rd down by starting NFL QBs this year is 5.9 points. Foles’s QB Rating drops 31.6 points. The greatest drop by a starter is Matthew Stafford with a drop of 61.7 points. Including backup QBs that have starts under their belt, the average drop is 8.5 points and the greatest drop is E.J. Manuel at 97.7 points. Josh McCown has the greatest increase of any QB at 57.8 points.(his passer rating jumps 57.8 points on 3rd down)

    It’s interesting that Foles’s drop is five times greater than your average starting QB. I wonder what the cause of this is.

    Getting to the HB point, here are the HB numbers on 1st and 2nd down (as well as their percentage of overall production):
    17/24 (21.7% of completions and 20.6% of attempts)
    70.8%
    159 yards (16.8% of the yards)
    6.6 YPA
    0 TDs

    And on 3rd down:
    13/15 (40.6% of completions and 21.7% of attempts)
    86.6%
    101 yards (27.7% of the yards)
    6.7 YPA
    0 TDs

    Where am I going with this? With HB passes being high percentage plays and generating solid yardage, I wonder why we don’t incorporate more of these throws and check downs on early downs to help us get into 2nd and manageable and 3rd and manageable.

    #33507
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net

    fearsomefour

    the play calling and kind of routes the team is running is revealing to me.

    It is hard to tell watching a game with the normal tv view. Foles is late on a lot of throws or so it seems. The outs to the sideline the OC seems to favor protect the QB from having to make reads. It gives him a basket to throw into that is safe. If it is covered up it is an easy throw away. OCs protect QBs this same way with roll outs. One option or a throw away.

    You don’t see the crosses, slants and intermediate stuff with the
    Rams….the 15 to 20 yard cross. The Rams will run some stuff in the middle with the TEs but thats about it. That again is mostly scheme related trying to create some mismatches with LBs. The deep throws are usually one guy running deep with everything else underneath….again, no read here, there is usually one option, a predetermined deep shot. I like the deep shots and Foles throws a good deep ball.

    I really believe the coaches don’t trust Foles to read the D, be on the same page as his WRs and have the ability to find secondary guys. First and second down it is easier to run some plays where the receiver is predetermined. Third and 8 everyone knows you are passing. I don’t mind first down passes especially versus a loaded box.

    I believe the issue is Foles and his shortcomings as a QB. The OC is using him as a manager and little else. Take a few deep shots a game to try and create a big play or two….which can work as we saw vs Cleveland….beyond that don’t throw picks and let the D and running game do their thing. This approach can certainly work.

    It would be nice to have a full, grown up NFL passing game to complement what Gurley is doing.

    #33508
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net

    Hazlet Hacksaw

    Shotty loved the quick slants – they are gone from this offense.

    The Rams staple now is to attack the short outside on third downs less than 10 yds. The results have been very poor. You can almost predict the 5-6 yd out route on 3rd down when they need 8 yds. Everything is to the sidelines away from the QB – the hardest throws – and usually short of the first down marker. I’m sure Cignetti has his reasons but the results are lacking so far. 1/19 or whatever it was the last two games on 3rd down wont cut it against the better teams they will face in the next few weeks.

    We as fans will likely never know – all we do know is what they are doing so far has failed miserably on third down. For whatever reason, the middle of the field has not been friendly to the Rams receivers this year.

    It has to be a bad combination of routes, receivers, protection and qb. There I figured it out. Seriously I’m going to look at the all 22 for third down Sunday and see.

    I do like the fact that they went deep three times despite the lack of success.

    #33509
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    from off the net

    fearsomefour

    the play calling and kind of routes the team is running is revealing to me.

    That was a great summary and insightful point of view….

    #33510
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net

    fearsomefour

    the play calling and kind of routes the team is running is revealing to me.

    That was a great summary and insightful point of view….

    how so? Ie clarify…thanks.

    #33511
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net

    RustyRay

    Just watch Foles on 3rd downs and how many throws go outside the numbers. He is missing things in the middle of the field a ton.

    He has struggled due to pressure and his 1st instinct is to always throw outside…he has a heck of a time keeping his eyes down the middle of the field.

    People love to hammer on the Rams WR’s and TE’s….but in reality they are getting open more then people think…its a mixture of Foles failures to see them and of the Rams being able to pass block well enough for the deeper routes to come into play.

    #33512
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    This of course does not factor in 3rd down with the qb in obvious passing situations.

    But…. FOLES: Passes over the middle

    2013: 34 of 317 (10.7% of total attempts), 73.5% completions, 13.09 YPA, 154.7 qb rating

    2014: 37 of 311 (11.9% of total attempts), 64.9% completions, 11.73 YPA, 141.0 qb rating

    2015: 20 of 187 (10.7% of total attempts), 65.0% completions, 6.45 YPA, 101.9 qb rating

    #33516
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    With Gurley, Austin rolling, Rams should look to the middle more

    Nick Wagoner

    http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/23211/with-gurley-austin-rolling-rams-should-look-to-middle-of-the-field-for-more

    EARTH CITY, Mo. — St. Louis Rams coach Jeff Fisher has talked extensively this week about how running back Todd Gurley and receiver Tavon Austin have been able to have success in part because of each other.

    That was abundantly clear in last week’s 27-6 win against the San Francisco 49ers. And while the Rams would love Gurley and Austin to continue to be the focal points of the offense, they also could use some help as they’ve contributed 50 percent of the offensive yards and 71 percent of the team’s non-defensive touchdowns to the mix.

    So it stands to reason that if defenses have to worry about Gurley and Austin, something else should open up, right?

    “I would think so, yeah,” Fisher said. “Competitively, I won’t go into details. But, yeah, Todd’s doing some good things, as is Tavon. We have to be creative offensively to create issues from the defensive standpoint.”

    It’s certainly understandable that Fisher won’t get into his specific game plan for how his offense can capitalize on Gurley and Austin’s success, but here’s a modest proposal that could simultaneously help Gurley and Austin while bolstering the team’s ailing passing game: look to the middle of the field on a more consistent basis.

    Overall, the Rams’ offense ranks last in the NFL in passing yards per game and their QBR of 39.0 is 29th. But they’ve been particularly ineffective throwing the ball between those hashmarks that break the field into three pieces.

    In seven games, Rams quarterback Nick Foles has thrown for 87 yards between the hashmarks, which is just a single yard ahead of the Dolphins for the fewest in the league. That should come as little surprise since the Rams aren’t exactly attempting many passes between the hashes. Foles is seven-of-14 on such throws, with those attempts tied with Green Bay also for the second-fewest in the NFL.

    While those numbers aren’t good, it’s interesting to note that of those seven completions in the middle of the field, four have gone for first downs and two have resulted in touchdowns.

    The blame for those incompletions can’t all be put on Foles’ right arm. The Rams have struggled with drops all season and have three such miscues on pass attempts over the middle. One of the culprits has been tight end Jared Cook, who has two catches and two drops on throws between the hashes.

    But that doesn’t mean the Rams should go away from Cook, who is the player on the roster best equipped to make plays over the middle of the field. At 6-foot-5, 254 pounds, Cook was signed to be a capable target over the middle. In his nearly two and a half seasons with the Rams, he’s averaged 17.2 yards per catch between the hashmarks, and before this season he’d caught two-thirds of the balls thrown his way in that area.

    Cook also showed signs of getting back on track as a pass catcher against San Francisco, hauling in three passes on four targets, one of which went for 49 yards and another for a 2-point conversion.

    Regardless of whether it’s Cook, tight end Lance Kendricks or someone else, if the Rams offense is going to continue to evolve, they’ll need to get players other than Gurley and Austin to help shoulder the load.

    “If you’re concerned about Todd inside or on the edge, you may have to create a one-on-one with Tavon on the edge,” Fisher said. “So, those are the kinds of things that we’re working on.”

    #33518
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well I’m not a hundred percent sure we can
    extrapolate much from the last two games.
    I mean, the Rams got out to a lead and
    Fisher probly really trusted the defense
    and running game to win the last two.

    I’m not sure the same offensive-approach
    and play-calling will stay in place
    as the Rams face teams that can score
    more points. I dunno.

    Btw, you can ‘usually’ tell when Fisher thinks
    he’s an underdog because he tries to steal
    a possession with Hekker-Trickery.

    w
    v

    #33527
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    Well I’m not a hundred percent sure we can
    extrapolate much from the last two games.
    I mean, the Rams got out to a lead and
    Fisher probly really trusted the defense
    and running game to win the last two.

    I’m not sure the same offensive-approach
    and play-calling will stay in place
    as the Rams face teams that can score
    more points. I dunno.

    Btw, you can ‘usually’ tell when Fisher thinks
    he’s an underdog because he tries to steal
    a possession with Hekker-Trickery.

    w
    v

    that’s good point. i think we’re all getting perhaps a little more nervous than usual. this team seems close doesn’t it? with one of the few weaknesses being the passing game. so maybe it’s causing people to overanalyze foles and the receivers.

    i think the team is actually good enough to make the playoffs without a competent passing game. shoot. if the rams could get their ypa up a yard. and get their total yardage to around the low 20s or high teens. they’d be in contention to go to the superbowl. probably won’t happen this year though. hopefully, next year.

    #33531
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    This of course does not factor in 3rd down with the qb in obvious passing situations.

    But…. <strong class=”d4pbbc-bold”>FOLES: Passes over the middle

    2013: 34 of 317 (10.7% of total attempts), 73.5% completions, 13.09 YPA, 154.7 qb rating

    2014: 37 of 311 (11.9% of total attempts), 64.9% completions, 11.73 YPA, 141.0 qb rating

    2015: 20 of 187 (10.7% of total attempts), 65.0% completions, 6.45 YPA, 101.9 qb rating

    yeah. my gut instinct is it isn’t all foles. i am up and down on him. but when i have a level head. my instinct is that there’s many other factors out of his control. i mean we list them all the time.

    new coordinator (who happens to be a rookie coordinator)
    new system
    quality of receivers
    green oline

    i’m probably missing others. i just want to see improvement at this point. something to give me hope next year that this passing offense will be something other than what it is right now. although the truth is. slight improvements here and there will add up to make enough of a difference to make this team a contender. i mean one year of experience for cignetti. one year to develop a relationship with his receivers. one year of this oline gelling. and one more year of experience for foles (and this isn’t exactly a grizzled veteran we’re talking about here). that could be enough to vault this team all the way to mediocrity. and honestly mediocrity is all they need considering how good the defense and the running game are.

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