Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Top 7 ways to tell if Someone is lying about being a ‘Salafi Jihadi’
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June 14, 2016 at 9:10 am #46086
znModeratorTop 7 ways to tell if Someone is lying about being a ‘Salafi Jihadi’
By Juan Cole
link: http://www.juancole.com/2016/06/someone-salafi-jihadi.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
Note from me: Juan Cole is a huge asset in discussing all this. Here is the wiki on him if you’re interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Cole
Regulars at Pulse Nightclub are saying that Omar Mateen, the alleged shooter in the early Sunday morning massacre there, was himself a regular! The Orlando Sentinel writes, “‘Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and belligerent,’ Ty Smith said.”
So there’s just one thing about his claim to be acting on behalf of ISIL (with whom he appears never to have had any contact): puritanical Muslim fundamentalists of the ISIL sort don’t behave that way. Unbalanced, disturbed young Christian Americans who want to act out power fantasies that end in murder-suicide tend to claim a KKK, neo-Nazi, Christian fundamentalist or other white-nationalist identity in a desperate bid to make their loser lives and loser behavior seem cosmically important. And, Jewish young men with mass murder on their minds tend to do so in the name of some flavor of radical Zionism (Jewish nationalism, which makes Judaism a national identity rather than a private religious one). Muslim American young men with similar power fantasies and violent impulses inflate their egos with reference to al-Qaeda, ISIL, whatever the far right fringe Muslim boogey man of the day is.
As I wrote yesterday, it seems to me a distinction must be drawn between nihilism and terrorism, between the senseless action of a disturbed individual (no matter how he justifies it) and an actual political group to which a suspect actually belongs that deploys terrorism to achieve a deeply political goal.
So here are some tips for recognizing a Muslim fundamentalist who has turned to terrorism, i.e. what most counter-terrrorism experts call a Salafi Jihadi (I prefer the term fundamentalist vigilante). (Note: Only 15% of Muslims are fundamentalists; only 9 million out of 1.5 billion are Wahhabis; and the vast majority of Muslim fundamentalists are peaceful. ISIL in Syria and Iraq is estimated to have on the order of 25,000 fighters).
1. Salafi Jihadis don’t drink alcohol.
2. Salafi Jihadis don’t hang out in bars.
3. Salafi Jihadis don’t, in particular, frequent gay bars.
4. Salafi Jihadis don’t text potential hook-ups using a gay dating app.
5. Salafi Jihadis aren’t usually clean shaven.
6. Salafi Jihadis belong to a fringe interpretation of Sunni Islam and despise Shiites; they don’t typically claim to have an affiliation with a Shiite group such as Hizbullah, which is fighting ISIL in Syria. (Here “typically” means, like, “ever.”)
7. Salafi Jihadis don’t express a hope that non-Muslim police will assault their wives. In fact, they wouldn’t want men other than close relatives to so much as see their wives unveiled.Omar Mateen was a disturbed person, likely brought up a nationalist rather than a fundamentalist, and didn’t have the slightest idea of what a Salafi Jihadi was. He was a fraud in every way. Likely the failure of his first marriage came from his mistreatment of his wife because deep down he was not straight and his self-betrayal made him hate her. When he felt bullied at work for his race or religion, he talked big, invoking Salafi Jihadi groups, without any understanding of them. He never adopted that lifestyle or joined any such group. He didn’t even know the difference between Sunni and Shiite.
It is possible, in fact, that his psychotic break came from being jilted at the club, and the massacre was his revenge.
To put all this on Muslims and Islam in general is frankly absurd.June 14, 2016 at 9:22 am #46088
PA RamParticipantAnd yet Trump will benefit by convincing frightened people that this is just another part of the holy war and that the answer lies in building giant walls around our country.
And it won’t solve this problem.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
June 14, 2016 at 5:16 pm #46148znModeratorMateen was ‘searching,’ ‘curious,’ says transgender woman who met him at gay club
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mateen-searching-curious-says-transgender-000000002.html
ORLANDO — A transgender woman described Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen as being curious, searching, and uncomfortable when they met at a popular gay club late last year.
Daniele Tashner, 60, said she immediately recognized Mateen when he was identified as the gunman who killed 49 people and injured dozens more at the Pulse dance club in Orlando early Sunday morning.
“When they showed this guy on the news, my heart cringed and I almost broke out in tears. I saw this person about eight months ago. I actually realized that I spoke to this person for about 15 minutes sitting in a gazebo at the back of Parliament House,” she said in an interview with Yahoo News.
Parliament House is another popular gay club in Orlando that is about a 10-minute drive northwest of Pulse.
Yahoo News spoke to Tashner during a Monday night vigil, which attracted thousands of people, outside the Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts in downtown Orlando. Tashner is not an employee at Parliament House, but said she takes care of plants at the club and that customers often feel comfortable talking to her.
According to Tashner, Mateen, 29, arrived at Parliament House with a friend and introduced himself but then kept to himself and observed people in conversation. When he spoke up, she said, he had questions and was, “reaching out.”
“He was really searching. He wanted to talk. He was curious and everything. But he was real uncomfortable,” she said.
The interview about her chance encounter with Mateen comes amid reports from several outlets that the gunman had frequented Pulse and may have used gay dating apps. CNN reports that the FBI is investigating the possibility that he made surveillance trips to Pulse and Walt Disney World to stake them out as possible attack targets. NBC published a similar report saying he tried to communicate with Pulse customers on the Grindr dating app before the massacre.
Tashner said she is of Cherokee descent and identifies as “two-spirited,” which is a general term for gender nonconformists within Native American communities. Tashner was biologically male at birth but identified strongly with femininity and embraced this side of her gender identity as she grew older. She said she has known her gender identity since she was 10, but did not fully come out of the closet until age 47. Since then, she has lived “this way 24/7.”
“You need to know both of your spirits. Who is inside of you. What you are. I counsel too many people that are afraid of themselves,” she said.
Tashner said she thinks misunderstanding and ignorance too often lead to violence because anger is a natural reaction to fear and said she now wishes she could have helped educate Mateen in hopes that he might not have resorted to violence.
“I tried talking to him and I tried sharing with him. I probably didn’t get enough time to probably get the right questions that he wanted answered,” she said.
A worker at Parliament House named Christian, who asked to have his last name withheld, told Yahoo News that the Orlando LGBT community is close-knit and that many Parliament House employees and patrons are deeply hurt after Sunday’s loss of life.
“All I can say is it’s horrible what happened,” he said. “There are a lot of people that work here that have friends who were there.”
June 14, 2016 at 6:11 pm #46152
InvaderRamModeratorAnd yet Trump will benefit by convincing frightened people that this is just another part of the holy war and that the answer lies in building giant walls around our country.
And it won’t solve this problem.
yeah. absolutely.
i’m worried.
my wife is third generation japanese american. her great grandparents and grandparents were sent to internment camps during world war ii. i don’t think anything like that could happen in thus day and age. but i’m not so sure.
June 14, 2016 at 6:15 pm #46153InvaderRamModeratorMateen was ‘searching,’ ‘curious,’ says transgender woman who met him at gay club
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mateen-searching-curious-says-transgender-000000002.html
ORLANDO — A transgender woman described Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen as being curious, searching, and uncomfortable when they met at a popular gay club late last year.
Daniele Tashner, 60, said she immediately recognized Mateen when he was identified as the gunman who killed 49 people and injured dozens more at the Pulse dance club in Orlando early Sunday morning.
“When they showed this guy on the news, my heart cringed and I almost broke out in tears. I saw this person about eight months ago. I actually realized that I spoke to this person for about 15 minutes sitting in a gazebo at the back of Parliament House,” she said in an interview with Yahoo News.
Parliament House is another popular gay club in Orlando that is about a 10-minute drive northwest of Pulse.
Yahoo News spoke to Tashner during a Monday night vigil, which attracted thousands of people, outside the Dr. Phillips Center for the Performing Arts in downtown Orlando. Tashner is not an employee at Parliament House, but said she takes care of plants at the club and that customers often feel comfortable talking to her.
According to Tashner, Mateen, 29, arrived at Parliament House with a friend and introduced himself but then kept to himself and observed people in conversation. When he spoke up, she said, he had questions and was, “reaching out.”
“He was really searching. He wanted to talk. He was curious and everything. But he was real uncomfortable,” she said.
The interview about her chance encounter with Mateen comes amid reports from several outlets that the gunman had frequented Pulse and may have used gay dating apps. CNN reports that the FBI is investigating the possibility that he made surveillance trips to Pulse and Walt Disney World to stake them out as possible attack targets. NBC published a similar report saying he tried to communicate with Pulse customers on the Grindr dating app before the massacre.
Tashner said she is of Cherokee descent and identifies as “two-spirited,” which is a general term for gender nonconformists within Native American communities. Tashner was biologically male at birth but identified strongly with femininity and embraced this side of her gender identity as she grew older. She said she has known her gender identity since she was 10, but did not fully come out of the closet until age 47. Since then, she has lived “this way 24/7.”
“You need to know both of your spirits. Who is inside of you. What you are. I counsel too many people that are afraid of themselves,” she said.
Tashner said she thinks misunderstanding and ignorance too often lead to violence because anger is a natural reaction to fear and said she now wishes she could have helped educate Mateen in hopes that he might not have resorted to violence.
“I tried talking to him and I tried sharing with him. I probably didn’t get enough time to probably get the right questions that he wanted answered,” she said.
A worker at Parliament House named Christian, who asked to have his last name withheld, told Yahoo News that the Orlando LGBT community is close-knit and that many Parliament House employees and patrons are deeply hurt after Sunday’s loss of life.
“All I can say is it’s horrible what happened,” he said. “There are a lot of people that work here that have friends who were there.”
i don’t know how people will react to this but i really feel for this guy. he was surely mentally unstable and i wonder if his family gave him the right support system to deal with all the emotions he was going through. it’s sad because this could have been prevented. maybe possibly he thought his family would have rejected him if they knew who he was.
June 14, 2016 at 6:26 pm #46155
wvParticipantAnd yet Trump will benefit by convincing frightened people that this is just another part of the holy war and that the answer lies in building giant walls around our country.
And it won’t solve this problem.
—————-
Well if the majority of American citizen-voters thinks ‘like that’
and want Donald Trump to be President of the United States — what does that say about America, and how did those voters get ‘that way’ ?w
vJune 14, 2016 at 6:33 pm #46157
bnwBlockedAnd yet Trump will benefit by convincing frightened people that this is just another part of the holy war and that the answer lies in building giant walls around our country.
And it won’t solve this problem.
—————-
Well if the majority of American citizen-voters thinks ‘like that’
and want Donald Trump to be President of the United States — what does that say about America, and how did those voters get ‘that way’ ?w
vProvide proof that Trump has said he wants to put US citizens in internment camps! The real question is what does that say about those who won’t vote for Trump that they would fear monger such an outcome?
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 14, 2016 at 7:02 pm #46158InvaderRamModeratori’m not saying he’s said that. i was wondering if there was a possibility it could lead to something like that.
and i said i didn’t think so but also was not entirely confident in that answer.
June 14, 2016 at 7:17 pm #46160bnwBlockedi’m not saying he’s said that. i was wondering if there was a possibility it could lead to something like that.
and i said i didn’t think so but also was not entirely confident in that answer.
OK though the question was to wv. I’m amazed at the hyperbole used regarding Trump.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 14, 2016 at 7:19 pm #46161znModeratorI’m amazed at the hyperbole used regarding Trump.
I’m amazed you think it’s hyperbole.
June 14, 2016 at 7:23 pm #46162bnwBlockedI’m amazed at the hyperbole used regarding Trump.
I’m amazed you think it’s hyperbole.
Internment camps is hyperbole. Feel free to disprove it.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
June 14, 2016 at 8:17 pm #46164wvParticipantAnd yet Trump will benefit by convincing frightened people that this is just another part of the holy war and that the answer lies in building giant walls around our country.
And it won’t solve this problem.
—————-
Well if the majority of American citizen-voters thinks ‘like that’
and want Donald Trump to be President of the United States — what does that say about America, and how did those voters get ‘that way’ ?w
vProvide proof that Trump has said he wants to put US citizens in internment camps! The real question is what does that say about those who won’t vote for Trump that they would fear monger such an outcome?
—–
I dont know anything about Trump talking about internment camps, but he shoots from the hip constantly, so: A) it wouldnt surprise me if he said it, and B) I wouldnt take him seriously if he did talk about it.
I know you like Trump. You are entitled to like Trump.
My own thing is to lump Trump and Hillary together. I see them both as
reflections of an electorate that has been propagandized to the point
we get voters thinking the are wasting their votes if they DONT vote
for the corrupt-corporate-puppet-warmongerer, or
the billionaire talk-radio-Republican.w
vJune 14, 2016 at 8:35 pm #46165
ZooeyModeratorMy own thing is to lump Trump and Hillary together. I see them both as
reflections of an electorate that has been propagandized to the point
we get voters thinking the are wasting their votes if they DONT vote
for the corrupt-corporate-puppet-warmongerer, or
the billionaire talk-radio-Republican.w
vYeah, I hear people complain a lot about the two party system. I tell them that, in fact, there are other parties. And I see a little cognitive dissonance for a moment.
It is a self-limiting, self-fulfilling prophecy if one thinks a vote for any other party is “wasted,” or a vote for the “enemy.”
I’d love to see Sanders run on the Green ticket. It would put the Greens on the map, and force the democrats left. It would be substantial.
June 14, 2016 at 10:05 pm #46166
MackeyserModeratorI just posted on Facebook to a bunch of Hillary fans that since they disavow Bernie and his policies and his supporters that they should release him from his pledge to not run as an independent.
What harm can it do their cause if they’re so star-spangled awesome that they are super sure that they can win without Independents and certainly don’t need the “berniebros” or their unrealistic ideas that can’t happen.
What I feel certain would happen is that Bernie would win a 3 way race.
As for Juan Cole, I was telling my best friend in CA about this information and he was astonished. He doesn’t follow the news much, but the MSM isn’t passing this along at all. He kept saying, “let me put this together…”
I sometimes forget the scope of how much the MSM doesn’t inform or misinforms.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
June 15, 2016 at 12:15 am #46173bnwBlockedWhat I feel certain would happen is that Bernie would win a 3 way race.
That would be Trump in a landslide. He would have the congress too. Gridlock would end.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
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