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znModeratorKaeperPick just tossed an int. Perfect.
Raiders with the ball at the 2 minute warning.
znModerator24-13 Oakland, 4th quarter
znModeratorRedskins hit bottom with embarrassing shutout loss to Rams
By Tom Schad – The Washington Times
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/washington-redskins-shut-out-st-louis-rams-embarra/
All season, rock bottom has eluded the Washington Redskins. So all season, they have continued to sink, lower and lower, in an apparent effort to find it.
At a chilly, half-empty FedEx Field on Sunday afternoon, they appeared to come close. There was a failed fake punt and a punt returned for a touchdown. There were St. Louis Rams receivers running wide open toward and through the end zone. There were interceptions, dropped passes, missed blocking assignments, penalties, sacks and chants of “R-G-3! R-G-3!” ringing through the stands in the third quarter.
The Redskins lost again on Sunday, 24-0, the most recent embarrassing performance in a season filled with them. Quarterback Colt McCoy was generally inaccurate in his third start of the season, throwing two interceptions before leaving the game with a neck strain at the two-minute warning. He completed 20 of 32 passes for 199 yards.
Upon his exit, the chanting fans got their wish. Robert Griffin III, the former face of the franchise who was benched by coach Jay Gruden last month, took the field and completed three passes. On fourth down, he overthrew tight end Jordan Reed and trotted back to the sideline, flipping his helmet to an attendant on the way out.
The Redskins fell to 3-10 for the second consecutive season and left the field to a chorus of boos.
Alfred Morris finished with eight carries for six yards. Meanwhile, Shaun Hill threw two touchdown passes for the Rams and Tavon Austin returned a punt 78 yards for a score of his own.
The first half was forgettable at best for both teams. But it began with a promising first drive by the Redskins.
All week, Washington’s coaches had stressed the importance of getting wide receiver Pierre Garcon more involved in the offense, and in the first seven plays, they succeeded. Garcon caught McCoy’s first pass for a 10-yard gain and had three catches for 44 yards in the first seven plays alone.
The drive unraveled when McCoy appeared to overthrow intended receiver Ryan Grant, who didn’t help matters by slipping on the route. Rodney McLeod dove for the interception, stopping Washington’s opening drive just outside the red zone.
And it was all downhill from there.
Facing a Redskins defense without two of its starters — linebacker Keenan Robinson and safety Brandon Meriweather — the Rams moved the ball at will for much of the first half. They got on the board midway through the first quarter, when Hill found tight end Jared Cook running open down the middle of the field from 35 yards out, a play reminiscent of last week’s frequent blown coverages in Indianapolis.
Fortunately for Washington, Rams kicker Greg Zuerlein missed the extra point. For the rest of the first half, in fact, his inaccuracy was all that prevented St. Louis from widening the gap. He missed two field goals, each a chip shot, allowing the Redskins to escape the first 30 minutes with only a 6-0 deficit.
However, there was still one more half to play, 30 more excruciating minutes for those in the half-empty stadium, new lowly depths for the Redskins to discover.
znModeratorWASHINGTON FAN COMMENTS
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Prime Time
This Inept heartless bunch of losers has drained all my passion and fun of a game I’ve loved since childhood.So tired of watching prideless quitters bumbling around field disgracing what Redskins once stood for!!!!
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It’s gotten so bad I almost read a book today.A book.
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I’m hearing a lot from people decrying or naysaying, saying a petition won’t work, a boycott won’t work, etc… etc… and yet I see more and more people every day making the choices I’ve made as a fan.I no longer spend money on this team like I HAVE spent until recently.
I no longer contribute to ratings by watching the games at home.
Looking like nobody showed up to the game today. If you want to show your lack of support, show it in whatever way you want. Just like the phrase “winning solves everything,” when they start doing things right, we’ll cheer and stuff. If they don’t, well, just not cheering has gotten to be underwhelming. I won’t be a fan of another football team. The NFL and its rules are progressively making football less fun for me. However, I will and have stopped watching and supporting the redskins as a football team.
I just follow rugby now.
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i’m afraid the only way dan would sell would be if someone could come up with some dirt on him, ala donald sterling.. sigh
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I despise you, Snyder. With the burning, white hot heat of a thousand suns. You and your lapdog ass-sniffing soulless corporate lackeys. There’s a Bible verse that says, “don’t throw your pearls before the swine.” Then there’s the swine, who say, “Don’t throw the pearls someone threw us to Snyder.”===========
======Hacksaw
Their kicker is our best player.. smmfh
Oh, they’re just taunting right in our faces.
Goodness gracious. Time to bring in Sonny. He hasn’t lost a step in the last 40 years…
This is a replay of st louis vs oak last week.. but dare I say worse??
OK, folks: are the Redskins playing against the ’85 Bears or the 2014 Rams?
Shut out at home? Not good Gruden.. not good
This will be a blowout…..what a sad state our beloved Skins are in
Will Haslett’s D make Shaun Hill look like Johnny Unitas?
Hazbeen is beyond embarrassing!
I still get the sinking feeling that Hazmat will be back next year
Forget going for the interception. Let’s just go for the head of the defenseless reciever! Genius players we have out there on D!
Look at the Rams. Young at key positions, well disciplined. Well coached. Smart, quick football team getting better through the season
Then look at this group of ****wads wearing the burgundy and gold. Loser city.
**** you Snyder. **** youThis defense reminds me of a wet Kleenex
Yeah the kind you blast a hole through in the urinalThe Rams are terrible on 3rd down and 30+.
16 mil to punt!!! We’re do I sign up!
Shaun Hill is awful.
Britt smoked Thomas and Breeland.
Benny “Barry Sanders” Cunningham
He had it set up for a seamless transition to Gregg, whom most all fans and players wanted; until lil’ Danny and the bug eyed buffoon intervened
Shaun Hill is a BEAST!
Remember the days when we lost to the Rams but we went into the game actually THINKING we’d beat them?
The Rams have speed all over the field. Must be nice.
Brian Shottenheimer out coaching us.
Loserville, Dan Snyder mayor
Damn, did RG3 just sneak into the game for the Rams?
Zuerlein with Chuck Knoblauch syndrome
Zuerline point shaving? Things that make you wonder.
I’m enjoying the Rams kicker…lol..he’s playing like he’s on the Snyders payroll
We’re getting shut out today by Rams at home….yikes!
There’s only like 50 Redskins fans at the game and you can still hear them booing.
Yeah, this is fun…..getting blown out at home against the Rams. Not sure why I expected a win. Wow. I am an idiot.
Rams are looking at back-to-back shutouts.
LOL we forgot that they have receivers. The Rams had 2-3 guys completely uncovered.
BeatDown by the Rams SMDH rubbing it in now 2 pt conversion yikes!
That’s how you do a fake.
Rams and Fisher rubbing our nose in it..LOL
Handclap for the Rams. Love it!
Well, at the least the Rams are TRYING to teach them something. Idk if the mental capacity on the Redskins side can handle the lesson.
Sims personifying what the rams are doing to us
All the way for Tavon ! and the embarrassment never stops !
Listen to the RG3 chants LOL
Chants for RGIII. Oh good.
Maybe it’s from laughing Rams fans?znModeratorXXXIVwin
Shaun Hill was AWESOME today!
He’s 3-1 as a full time starter for the Rams– GORGEOUS game against Denver, two BLOWOUT wins, and a nail-biting loss.
After today he is 75 of 121 for 895 yds 6 TD and 3 INT, for a 2014 QBR of 90.7…. nice stat line!!
He plays UGLY BEAUTIFULLY– his passes wobble, he waddles when he runs, and he’s no GQ model. But he plays SMART, is an excellent game manager (this is a GOOD thing BTW), and has a much stronger arm than people give him credit for.
Did I mention that he WINS GAMES?
Look, I love all my Rams brethren, but all of this “meh” and “career backup” crap is starting to get under my skin…. we have a solid QB right in front of us… the Rams would be CRAZY to let Shaun Hill walk next year!!!!
znModeratorRams defense, 4th down, last 4 games:
opposition 7 4th down attempts, 0 1st downs.
znModeratorMaddy wrote:
Fisher had the six players from the RGIII trade as coin toss captains. That’s pretty good.OMG, are you kidding me?
You are, arent you.w
vNo it’s true. JT tweeted it.
znModeratorRams romp to another shutout win
• BY JIM THOMASLANDOVER, Md. • For those keeping score, it’s now 76-0 Rams in the last two Sundays. They have scored back-to-back victories for the first time since Games 15 and 16 of last season after Sunday’s 24-0 blanking of Washington at FedEx Field.
A victory this Thursday night at home against Arizona will put them at a place rarely seen this late in the season for the Rams — .500.
After a first half in which the Rams seemed to take a step backward for every step forward, they dominated Washington in the second half with aggressive defense, some Jared Cook, and lots of excitement from Tavon Austin.
Cook scored two touchdowns, including one in the second half. Austin had a 78-yard punt return to seal the deal in third quarter. The Rams are now 6-7; Washington falls to 3-10.
The St. Louis defense registered back-to-back shutouts for the first time since they were the Cleveland Rams in 1945. For the second game in a row and the third time in four games, the opposing offense did not reach the red zone.
The Rams had all kinds of chances to bury Washington in the first half. But penalties, sacks and a major case of the yips by place-kicker Greg Zuerlein left them with only a 6-0 lead at the intermission.
Zuerlein missed the first extra point of his NFL career after a 39-yard touchdown pass from Shaun Hill to tight end Cook early in the second quarter. Zuerlein had made all 91 of his career extra points before that one went wide right.
OK, chalk that up as a fluke, right? Well, Zuerlein then missed two field goals before the half was out. He was wide right on a 28-yard field goal attempt with 5:32 to go in the first half. Until then, Zuerlein had been 16-for-16 on attempts of less than 30 yards in his three-year pro career.
And as time expired in the second quarter, Zuerlein missed from 38 yards. Again, it was wide right. It was only his fourth miss in the 30-39 range in his career. So instead of having a 13-0 lead at the half, the Rams had only the six points from the Cook reception.
After the Rams won the coin toss but deferred, Washington drove to the St. Louis 32 on its opening possession. But free safety Rodney McLeod ended that threat with his second interception of the season, coming on an overthrown pass from Colt McCoy intended for Washington wide receiver Ryan Grant.
The Rams then drove to the Washington 22, but an illegal hands to face penalty against center Scott Wells and an offensive pass interference penalty on fullback Cory Harkey on back-to-back plays pushed the ball back to the 42. The Rams had to punt.
In the second quarter, a 37-yard punt return for Austin, his second-longest return of the season at that point, went for naught on Zuerlein’s first missed field goal. The Rams had a first-and-goal from the 6, but back-to-back sacks forced them to kick a field goal. Or make that try a field goal.
On the Rams’ next possession, a 41-yard completion from a scrambling Hill to Kenny Britt gave St. Louis a first down at the Washington 38. But a second sack by Ryan Kerrigan forced the Rams to punt.
A 28-yard punt return by Austin gave the Rams possession at the Washington 47 on their next series. But that led to Zuerlein’s second miss at the end of the half.
But the Rams got going in the third quarter. After taking the kickoff to start the third quarter, they finally got a field goal from Zuerlein, who squeezed in a 34-yarder to make it 9-0 Rams after a drive that lasted nearly 7½ minutes.
After what looked like a 3-and-out by the Rams’ defense, Washington tried a fake punt on 4th-and-5 from its own 33. But punter Tress Way was stopped after only a two-yard gain, and the Rams took over at the Washington 35 with 6:07 left in the third quarter.
After a holding penalty on Harkey set the Rams back 10 yards, a 36-yard catch-and-run by Stedman Bailey on third-and-12 gave them a first down at the Washington 1. On the next play, Hill connected with Cook in the back of the end zone for Cook’s second TD of the day.
Instead of having Zuerlein kick the extra point, holder Johnny Hekker took the snap, raised up and threw a 2-point conversion pass to Harkey to give St. Louis a 17-0 lead.
Hekker is now six for seven as a passer in his career with two touchdowns.
Then Austin, who has flirted with a punt return TD on several occasions this season, put the capper on the day with a 78-yard return for a score with 1:36 left in the third quarter. This time, Zuerlein kicked the extra point and the Rams were up 24-0.
Many Washington fans headed for the exit after that score, and many of those who stayed started chanting for now backup quarterback Robert Griffin III to come off the bench.
RGIII did get in on the final possession of the day for Washington, which ended with an incomplete pass by Griffin.
BURWELL TRIBUTE
There was a seat set aside for late Post-Dispatch columnist Bryan Burwell in the press box Sunday at FedEx Field, with a vase of flowers and a photo placard that read: The Washington Redskins honor the life, work, and spirit of Bryan Burwell.
Several media members stopped by to look at the tribute, say a prayer, and take a photo. There will be a moment of silence in honor of Burwell prior to kickoff.
znModeratorWith Jenkins and Johnson healthy, appears Rams have answered how they’re going to handle having 5 healthy corners. Joyner/Roberson inactive.
That I guess means Gaines is the nickel, and if they lose a corner, Gaines goes to corner and McCleod covers the nickel.
They have 5 active safeties, looks like. Besides Mc and Mc, they have Barron, Alexander, and Cody Davis.
znModeratorLooking at the two fill-in QBs this year, Austin Davis has a higher QBR (85.1 to Shaun Hill’s 81.3) and better completion percentage (63.4 to 59.6).
I know you were just noting that as this interesting thing and not making any kind of case. But still, this to me shows that just doing raw averages doesn’t tell you much.
So for example if you compare Davis’s 1st 3 games then his last 3, they are vastly different.
Example, using traditional qb ratings (I tend not to use QBR)…
Davis’s first 3 games … 91.3 qb rating, completion percentage 71%
Davis’s last 3 games … 60.8 qb rating, completion percentage 57.28%Raw averages hide that difference.
znModeratorThey could go anywhere in this draft.
IMO they need a qb, a FS, a linebacker, and O-linemen.
But then when it comes to the OL, I think they will keep using every approach at once…though maybe not a big-time FA this time.
Cuts, ronin, and low-market young vets (Barksdale, Person)
Lower developmental draft picks, rounds 4-7, + UDFAs (Rhaney, Jones?)
Re-cycled low-market FAs (Joseph)
High draft picks, rounds 1-3 (like they would have done with Warford in 2013)
High-market FAs, though I doubt they do that this time
BTW Boudreau has been making something out of players like Barksdale and Person his whole career.
.
znModerator7 things to watch: Rams at Redskins
By Jim Thomas
COLT IS IN CHARGE IN WASHINGTON
After washing out in Cleveland, then holding a clipboard for a year in San Francisco, Colt McCoy has another chance to show he can be a starting quarterback in the NFL. Sunday marks his third start this season for Washington, and the second since Robert Griffin III was benched by coach Jay Gruden. McCoy has good mobility and pretty good accuracy. He doesn’t have the greatest arm strength. There are times when he gets the ball out quickly, but also times when he waits too long reading the field and gets pulled down by the pass rush. It’s a common mistake for young quarterbacks. McCoy was sacked six times last week against the Colts, one of which resulted in a fumble that was recovered by Indy and returned for a touchdown. “He’s done a pretty good job,” Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams said. “I see a lot of progress in his game since the last time I’ve gone against him a few years ago when he was in Cleveland.”
IN THE BACKFIELD
He hasn’t come close to matching his franchise record 1,613 rushing yards as a rookie in 2012, but Alfred Morris is on course for a third consecutive 1,000-yard rushing year. He’s among NFL leaders in rushing yards (893) and rushing TDs (seven). At 5 feet 10, 224 pounds, Morris has excellent lower-body strength. “He’s got our attention on how he’s able to press the hole,” Williams said. “He’s been a great one-cut runner. He’s more explosive than people give him credit for.”
HELU, TOO
The one thing Morris doesn’t do is catch many passes. Those chores usually fall to former University of Nebraska star Roy Helu Jr. The Rams haven’t always been attentive to running backs leaking out of the backfield to catch passes; doing the same against Washington would be a big mistake. The speedy Helu is third among NFL running backs in reception yards (436), and leads all NFL pass-catchers — be they backs, wideouts, or tight ends — in yards after the catch (12.7).
THE RECEIVERS
The Rams will catch a break if DeSean Jackson (shin) can’t play. He’s listed as questionable, which might be an optimistic assessment because he didn’t practice all week. If he’s out there, Jackson has big-play potential as evidenced by his career average of 17.5 yards per catch. Don’t sleep on Pierre Garcon, who has more catches (162) since the start of last season than anyone in the NFC. Jordan Reed is an emerging tight end who had nine catches for 123 yards last week.
SHORTHANDED SECONDARY
Washington has been without veteran cornerbacks DeAngelo Hall and Tracy Porter for most of the season. Both are on IR. And it looks as if starting strong safety Brandon Meriweather and backup cornerback E.J. Biggers will be out because of injuries Sunday. CB Chase Minnifield (concussion), who started last week, already has been ruled out. After giving up four TD passes of 30-plus yards, including two of 70-plus yards against Indy, the secondary appears very vulnerable.
KERRIGAN and QUINN
The 2011 draft was a banner year for pass rushers, featuring Von Miller, Aldon Smith, J.J. Watt, the Rams’ Robert Quinn and Washington’s Ryan Kerrigan. Washington traded down, from No. 10 overall to No. 16, to take Kerrigan and in essence pass on Quinn, who went at No. 14. Kerrigan has a career-high 9½ sacks this season and has 34 in his career. After a slow start this season, Quinn has been on fire lately. He’s credited with nine sacks in 2014 and has 43½ in his career.
TURNOVER BATTLE
The winning formula for the Rams isn’t all that complicated in 2014. They are 3-0 in games where they don’t commit a turnover. Washington had three takeaways last week but still lost to the Colts 49-27, and has been anything but a turnover machine this season — with 15. Only five teams in the NFL have fewer. The Rams, meanwhile, are coming off a season-high five takeaways registered in last week’s 52-0 route of Oakland and have 21 takeaways this season.
znModeratorDeSean Jackson out for Sunday
by Mike Floriohttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/06/desean-jackson-out-for-sunday-2/
Washington receiver DeSean is out for the Week 14 game against the Rams, according to Dianna Marie Russini of NBC 4.
Jackson, who had been listed as questionable, suffered a bruised leg bone during last Sunday’s loss to the Colts.
The former Eagle has 47 catches for 942 yards this season, an average of 20 yards per reception. He had career highs of 82 receptions and 1,332 yards last season, his final in Philly.
December 7, 2014 at 1:47 am in reply to: The fact that Rams seldom win in DC makes this a big game. #13257znModeratorRams are 3-3 at home, and 2-4 on the road.
But then they only played one losing team on the road. Tampa (2-10).
They beat SF (7-5).
They lost to Phil (9-3), KC (7-5), ARZ (9-3), and SD (8-4).
So the average record of teams they played in their road losses is 8.25-3.75.
Washington is 3-9.
Their qb situation is infamous. But they have a very good OL, plus good weapons even if D.Jackson doesn’t play–Garcon and Morris.
Their defense is another Haslett paradox–11th in yards, 27th in points.
But still, that 11th in yards is deceptive. In their last 4 games their defense has averaged:
1.75 sacks ( extrapolated, would be ranked 25th)
1.75 turnovers (would be ranked 11th)
30 points (would be ranked 32nd)
388 yards (would be ranked 30th)In some respects, it’s like they are the reverse mirror image of the Rams last 4 games on defense.
Though they remain a darn good rushing defense. If anything, in the last 4 games, they have gotten better. If you look at the 12 games average, they ranked 9th on rushing defense. But in the last 4 games, if you extrapolated their numbers, they would be ranked 3rd.
Denver ranks 2nd and the Rams ran on them, but that gets us back to the issue of road games…..
znModeratorWilson is a very good qb. They take advantage of his running without getting him slaughtered. But when he has to make a clutch throw, he does.
Not every starting qb with run-first ability is Wilson. Just as not every pocket passer is Brees or Warner.
Besides.
Wilson has 4 TDs on 91 rushing attempts, which is a 4.4% percentage.
Hill has 1 TD on 4 rushing attempts, which is 25%.
So this absolutely PROVES, just completely without doubt DEMONSTRATES, that Hill is the better running qb.
Doesn’t it.
znModeratorWell, some of the ‘running qbs’ have
had a bad year, but a ‘running qb’
still quarterbacked the team that won
the Ring last year.And yes i know about Seattle’s
D and running game. But ask
any seattle-watcher what they think
of R.Wilson. He’s clutch.w
vBut the key there is “clutch,” not “running.”
Wilson is a very good qb. They take advantage of his running without getting him slaughtered. But when he has to make a clutch throw, he does.
Not every starting qb with run-first ability is Wilson. Just as not every pocket passer is Brees or Warner.
znModeratorPeople say that down field plays are set up by adjustments to TA.
Some have been.
Well, both Cosell and the announcers during the game remarked on how the defense went Tavon’s direction leaving space on Masons’s side on a screen pass, the one that went for the TD.
There was another game where Tavon underneath drawing coverage left a Rams receiver open deeper, and that drew a lot of attention from the game analysts.
So it has happened.
Either way my bet is that sooner or later Tavon proves his value to the point where all agree on it. And I don’t mind waiting for that. Not everyone hits their stride early. Not even in their 1st 2 years.
I learned my lesson on that. I wrote Quick off completely last year.
znModeratorWhat to Watch For: Rams vs. Redskins/ Wagoner
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/14302/w2w4-st-louis-rams-17
EARTH CITY, Mo. — The St. Louis Rams and the Washington Redskins kick off Week 14 on Sunday at FedEx Field. Kickoff is set for 1 p.m. ET on Fox regional coverage.
Here are three things to watch from the Rams’ perspective:
1. Keep it simple: Winning the turnover battle is an unavoidable formula for winning games in the NFL. Yes, it’s simple and obvious but it’s also as close as you can find to a predictor in figuring out wins and losses in a given week. The Rams have been a perfect example of that this season. In games where they have committed zero turnovers, they are 3-0 and they haven’t lost a game in which they’ve been on the positive side of the turnover ledger. Conversely, they’ve lost any time they’ve been on the negative side. Games where they’ve broken even have been a coin toss. The Redskins don’t give it away as much as last week’s opponent, the Oakland Raiders, but they are pretty generous. They are 27th in the league in turnover margin at minus-7 and their 22 giveaways are 24th in the league. The Rams, meanwhile, have 21 takeaways, which is the eighth most in the league.
2. Pass rush production: The population of sack city has increased tremendously over the past seven or so weeks. After setting a league record for futility in that statistic the first six weeks, the Rams have become the pass rushing team that had set out to be at the beginning of the year. Since Week 7, the Rams have 27 sacks, which is the second most in the league in that time frame. End Robert Quinn is up to nine on the season and coming off a three-sack effort last week while defensive tackle Aaron Donald is leading all rookies in sacks with six of his own. The Redskins have yielded 39 sacks this season, the second most in the NFL. This is a dangerous mix for Washington heading into this week.
3. Penalty prone: Both teams enter this matchup among the most penalized teams in the league. That should be no surprise to fans of either team as they’ve likely grown annoyed by the persistent flags. Washington is 28th in the league in penalties with 93 while the Rams aren’t far behind at 90. And both teams aren’t just getting penalties but they’re getting costly ones. The Rams’ 851 penalty yards is second most in the league and Washington’s 828 are fourth most. So don’t be surprised if this game takes a while. The team that can control itself best will be doing itself a great service in improving its chances for a win.
znModeratorRams-Redskins: Matchup breakdown
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/14305/rams-redskins-matchup-breakdown
EARTH CITY, Mo. — A look at three individual matchups to keep an eye on when the St. Louis Rams and Washington Redskins meet at 1 p.m. ET Sunday.
Rams safety Mark Barron vs. Redskins tight end Jordan Reed
It’s an old SEC rivalry with the former Alabama star Barron against the former Florida Gator Reed. The Redskins’ offense has been stuck in the mud most of the season, but Reed has at least offered some hope with his recent productivity. He had nine catches for 123 yards against Indianapolis last week and appears to be fully healthy finally. Washington has good weapons on the outside in DeSean Jackson and Pierre Garcon but with Colt McCoy at quarterback, it seems he feels a bit more comfortable working with a safer outlet such as Reed.
The job of covering Reed falls to plenty of Rams other than Barron, but it’s been interesting to watch how the Rams deploy him. He played 46 snaps last week against Oakland, which is the most he’s been on the field since coming to St. Louis in a trade with Tampa Bay. Barron has become essentially a hybrid who spends much of his time near the line of scrimmage as a de facto third linebacker but also has the ability to drop and cover tight ends. It wouldn’t be a surprise to see the Rams use him in similar ways against the Redskins with Reed as a regular counterpart.
Rams right tackle Joe Barksdale vs. Redskins left outside linebacker Ryan Kerrigan
For the second week in a row, Barksdale find himself in an intriguing matchup. Kerrigan and Jason Hatcher are the Redskins’ biggest defensive threats and Kerrigan has become one of the league’s better pass-rushers. He has 9.5 sacks, three forced fumbles and 24 quarterback pressures and hits on the season. He’s deceptively quick and is adept at converting speed into power, which makes him tough to handle in Washington’s base 3-4 defense.
Barksdale had a good outing against Oakland last week but has had some trouble with better pass-rushers such as Kansas City’s Justin Houston. Kerrigan is closer in class to Houston than many of the other pass-rushers Barksdale has seen, so it will be important for the Rams to find ways to offer him some help on the edge to keep Kerrigan at bay.
Rams defensive end Chris Long vs. Redskins right tackle Tom Compton
Compton replaced Tyler Polumbus about halfway through the season and has had his ups and downs since stepping into the starting lineup. Still, he’s been an upgrade over Polumbus, who struggled mightily at the beginning of the season. At 6-foot-5, 314 pounds, Compton has more of a reputation for his work in the run game but not so much as a pass blocker.
Long, meanwhile, returned to action last week for the Rams after an ankle surgery, and immediately made his presence felt with a sack and a forced fumble. He played about half the snaps in his first game back and though the Rams will continue to be cautious with him, his role should continue at about the same level or perhaps a little more moving forward. Long and William Hayes make a strong tag team and they could make life very difficult for Compton and a Redskins’ offense that has yielded the second most sacks in the league this season.
znModeratorI heard Young talk about this on his weekly segment on local SF radio. Sid Gillman tied Young’s legs with a rope to avoid Young from scrambling.
SY: Well, I was throwing the ball a lot (at BYU), so I had some concepts that were taught to me by (quarterbacks coach) Mike Holmgren in college. But I also ran around like crazy. Ironically, it was in the USFL with (Hall-of-Fame coach) Sid Gillman. People don’t remember that Sid Gillman was my coach. He was an old crotchety guy, but he was the first one to basically say, ‘You can’t just run around.’ … I remember, he literally tied my feet up. He got a rope and said ‘OK, you can’t go anywhere. What are you going to do? You can’t move. What’s your next plan?’ So that got me thinking about that.
I think tying Young up and leaving him out there facing the D was a good idea. I mean I don’t know about the qb mechanics part of it, I just know he deserved it. Then, of course, they screwed up and untied him.
znModeratorRams4life wrote:
It’s just to me this should be a non issue.That’s fine. As long as you acknowledge that there are a myriad of opinions on this subject that are equally as valid as the ‘non-issue’ viewpoint. Some of us find the term Redskin to be self evidently offensive due to its historical connotation. Yeah there are native Americans who don’t really care about the word but there are also native Americans and others who are offended by it and their opinions have to count for something too, right?
The question remains, is this too political a subject to be on the football forum?
As you know, this community has gone back and forth on that.
znModeratorfrom off the net
==
Billy_T
a prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich, if he or she wants to. In 2010, there were 16,000 grand juries, and only 11 of them failed to indict. McCullough has a long history of protecting police, and it’s a rather incestuous relationship between local prosecutors and the police in the first place. They’re colleagues. It shouldn’t be in the hands of a local prosecutor to begin with. There is an obvious conflict of interest.
Some relevant articles:
It’s Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Ferguson’s Just Did
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/What America’s police departments don’t want you to know
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-its-a-crime-that-we-dont-know-how-many-people-police-shoot-to-death/2014/12/01/adedcb00-7998-11e4-b821-503cc7efed9e_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_popOfficer Darren Wilson’s story is unbelievable. Literally.
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-sideAmid Conflicting Accounts, Trusting Darren Wilson
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/us/ferguson-grand-jury-weighed-mass-of-evidence-much-of-it-conflicting.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=b-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=2znModeratorznModeratorThis is just getting ridiculous. I thought this was a football forum?
It is. And on most Rams boards, the Washington team name issue isn’t permitted. Here, so far…and who knows how long…we have kept it on the football forum because we think people can discuss it and differ in a civil way. It’s one of the things the board takes pride in…we just don’t have conflicts like that. Looking at it from that perspective, arguably, controversies are part of the NFL and so controversies over a team’s name can be seen as part of discussing the NFL (same as, for example, players and domestic abuse).
Still, some issues just might be too volatile. Is this one of them? I know we (as a group) have been back n forth. Previously, months ago, the posters at the buzz voted that all politically charged issues should be off the football board. But then, there was a kind of change on the new huddle, and the thought was, it could work on the football board.
But if people want this moved to the other forum (“The Public House”) then, that’s how we’ll do it.
I am open to any decision the posters themselves make.
Discuss?
znModeratorI’m really on board with this trade…
if you look at how many 1st rounders are on this Rams team… it’s staggering. And it’s not like we collected everyone else’s 1st round busts… losing + draft manipulation + heads up pro evaluations has lead to some pretty stout roster building.
I’m stoked going forward.
Yeah, it’s Long, (Bradford), Quinn, Brockers, Austin, Ogletree, Robinson, Donald, Barron, Britt, (Long).
2 are uncertain going forward but that’s 11.
According to this list, that’s the most in the NFL:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/6/12/5796672/nfl-rosters-by-draft-round
The least is Chicago with 3.
znModeratormore from
Mackeyser
(Responding to a concern that it would be hard to believe that the DA had a remotely prosecutable case, but just decided to shelve it) Well, yeah, that’s pretty much what happened. Justice Scalia in 1992 laid out very clearly the role of the Grand Jury and the presentation of evidence.
“It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880). As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented.”
I’m quoting from an article on Alternet, but there are several good articles out there on this very topic. The article goes on:
The passage was first highlighted by attorney Ian Samuel, a former clerk to Justice Scalia.
McCulloch allowed Wilson to testify for hours and made sure the grand jury was aware of every possible piece of evidence that could exculpate the cop. In his rambling press conference Monday night, McCulloch explained that the refusal to indict resulted from the combination of contradictory eyewitness testimony and other exculpatory evidence. But it was immediately obvious to legal experts that the way the prosecutor presented the evidence virtually guaranteed that there would be no indictment, and therefore no trial. As the cliche goes, a prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. But, it should be added, the prosecutor has to want the ham sandwich to be indicted. (emphasis mine)
There was so much wrong with how this went down that books will be written about it. McCulloch should have recused. He didn’t. He should have actually presented the charges to the Grand Jury. He didn’t. Not in the same manner as every OTHER Grand Jury. Normally a DA will actually present the charges and then essentially make his Prima Facie (or first facts) case as to WHY the Grand Jury should indict. It’s the whole point. His office functioned as de facto defense attorneys in the Grand Jury for Officer Wilson, a breach of the duties of his office before the Grand Jury. Other than giving the Grand Jury a list of charges, the Assistant DAs, NOT the DA himself, did NOT make any case for the return of any of the charges. As the Grand Jury was not sequestered, they KNEW they were in on the biggest case in the country and for the DA to not be presenting the case for indictment sent a STRONG signal to them that he didn’t expect an indictment. DAs are political animals and you will NEVER see a DA pass up a chance to get an indictment on a high profile case before the Grand Jury because if it goes to trial, he will want to ensure that everything before the Grand Jury is perfect. As an example, if this were going to trial, there’s NO WAY Wilson goes before the Grand Jury because the DA would want to tear into his inconsistent testimony on cross examination. Why the different distances? Why was his testimony from that day so different from the subsequent testimony a week later? How does he reconcile the testimony of the other person with Michael Brown who says Officer Wilson actually opened his car door and slammed it into Brown, which also puts everyone and the DNA in the right place, but puts Wilson on the aggressive and totally contradicts his account? NO ONE has put Wilson on a stand and cross-examined him. EVER. And now, it can’t happen. Which…was pretty much the plan all along. It had to be. There are just simply too many affirmative actions (no pun intended) taken to come to any other conclusion.
The shocking part isn’t that Officer Wilson wasn’t indicted. It was that it went to the Grand Jury at all and that they went to all the trouble of trying to cover for Officer Wilson when the outcome was predetermined. There is NO WAY after the release of that information that a discerning person can say that the DA sought justice or even the unvarnished truth.
The DAs office’s intent was to ensure that Officer Brown was NOT indicted. And they ensured that successfully.
I totally agree that any looting and burning is sad, unnecessary, counterproductive and wrong. What I appreciated were folks in the crowd wearing black hoodies with “Peacekeeper” on it in white letters and phone cameras and rather than videoing the cops, they were taking footage of the people. And whenever a crowd gathered, you’d see folks get there and try to start talking to people. Didn’t always work, but there were and are a lot of people who want to see this turn into positive change. MOST (easily 99+% of the people there throughout the months of protests) are looking to see positive changes… like community policing, body cams on police and a host of other things to make their community a better place.
One thing DA McCulloch DID say that is very true. If we want different outcomes, change the laws. Don’t burn things down. Now, with gerrymandering and all the political shenanigans all over the place, that’s a tough row to hoe, but if we as a people can deal with all we’ve changed from only white landowners participating in the political process to where we are today, we can certainly move even farther toward our founding ideals where we state that all men are created equal (and thus are treated equally under the law).
****DA McCulloch misused the Grand Jury. Plain and simple.
As Justice Scalia points out, the Grand Jury is NOT the venue for exculpatory evidence. Moreover, Officer Wilson’s testimony was RIDDLED with inconsistencies that should have been subject to cross-examination at trial.
The purpose of the Grand Jury is NOT to convict. It’s to INDICT. And there was enough to indict. There just was.
Now… especially because Officer Wilson is a Police Officer, because the eyewitness testimony was inconclusive and because the forensics were also inconclusive and there was no video evidence, it’s pretty unlikely Officer Wilson would be convicted. At least of a higher crime like murder. Depending on what happened at trial, a REALLY good prosecutor might get him on a lower charge of a lesser manslaughter if he were able to establish better about the distances because Officer Wilson’s testimony didn’t match the forensic evidence…EITHER. That part gets glossed over by his defenders.
I’m not arguing that Officer Wilson is guilty…or innocent.
I’m not arguing that Michael Brown is guilty of anything since he’s not on trial (and he shouldn’t be PUT on trial in some BS equivocation nonsense).
I’m arguing that the Grand Jury process was subverted and, thus that justice was denied.
You don’t seem to argue that fact, but seem to rationalize it.
I wholeheartedly, to the marrow of my bones, respectfully disagree. The law is the law and we should follow it for all.
Officer Wilson was denied his day in court by this and thus was denied justice as well. Not to the degree that the Brown family was, obviously, as they lost a son. My point is that in subverting the Grand Jury process for a political outcome, justice was DENIED to all involved.
And anyone pointing to the Grand Jury process in this case as a vindicatory process simply doesn’t understand what happened.
****(regarding the contention that the evidence dump was rigging the process)
the accusation that giving the jury all the evidence is the VERY DEFINITION of rigging it.I’m sorry if you don’t understand that.
It is NOT, absolutely NOT the job of the Grand Jury to adjudicate the merits of guilt or innocence or to exonerate a person.
I’ve posted probably half a dozen times the standard articulated by Justice Scalia. That is NOT what McCulloch did. Moreover, what McCulloch did isn’t just kinda, sorta outside the norm. It’s SO UNUSUAL that it borders on the “unheard of” and people struggled to find precedent for it…anywhere.
Further, your statement that “it means there was no evidence of a crime” is just not correct. We don’t know that because the DA never ASKED the Grand Jury for an indictment. They put the Grand Jury in a very difficult position, a position that no trial jury is in because evidence there has the benefit of scrutiny by opposing counsel. They were asked to “figure it out” when the DA essentially created reasonable doubt by presenting all of the exculpatory evidence.
And let me be clear here. The ONLY evidence the DA SHOULD have presented was that evidence necessary to obtain an indictment. The DA before the Grand Jury functions in a prosecutorial role. Many veteran prosecutors have come forward (and they tend to lean pretty conservative) and said that they’ve never seen or heard of a DA or their office NOT presenting a case, only presenting the evidence AND presenting exculpatory evidence before the Grand Jury.
So, the only evidence the Grand Jury should have seen were those pieces of evidence that supported the charges AND THAT’S IT.
That’s the function of the Grand Jury. They perform a preliminary function in the judicial process.
It’s not exactly basic civics, but we can’t conflate juries.
And what DA McCulloch did sets a potentially disastrous precedent for DAs around the country to pawn off cases where they don’t want to indict onto the Grand Jury and then subvert the Grand Jury with these tactics.
It’s just really, really bad from a process standpoint. The Grand Jury is really important for a lot of reasons and its misuse by prosecutors should be heavily scrutinized and sanctioned.
****
I wanna say one thing.The Grand Jury not indicting Officer Wilson does NOT mean he was innocent or guilty.
The Grand Jury not indicting Officer Wilson also does NOT mean that Michael Brown was guilty of anything (he was never on trial. Remember… he was the victim and he’s a dead human being).
What it means is that the Grand Jury returned No True bills on the charges presented.
I’ve read several people post things like “the evidence exonerates Officer Wilson” and stuff like that.
Well, no, it doesn’t. While there was a LOT of evidence, much of it including Officer Wilson’s testimony was NOT subject to Cross Examination nor secondary examination AND much of it was contradictory. All the more reason it should have gone to trial, really.
My point is that there was still a lot of work left to do and that SHOULD have been done at trial. Just the fact that Officer Wilson’s testimony was so grossly inconsistent from his initial statements to his later statements and how the distances didn’t match should have been enough to indict considering that enough distance would have put his other testimony in question.
But, basically, that’s it. The Grand Jury coming back didn’t “acquit” or “exonerate” Officer Wilson.
It may have exposed a very flawed, biased system and it certainly exposed a misuse of the Grand Jury by DA McCulluch (as defined by Justice Scalia), but all the Grand Jury finding did is say that the process wouldn’t continue. It didn’t express innocence or a lack of guilt.
Of anyone.
==
while I’m HARDLY a Scalia fan, he’s absolutely RIGHT about the function of the Grand Jury.
It has a function. If you’ve ever seen the movie, My Cousin Vinny (which, like all movies in a legal setting, get aspects of the law incorrect), the inexperienced lawyer Vinny has to appear before the judge at the Arraignment. However, because Vinny understands the law, but not the procedures of the court, he struggles so mightily that he gets himself thrown in jail because he cannot fathom that the arraignment is simply and ONLY the act of entering a plea. That’s it.
Well, the Grand Jury has a specific function.
It is not and never has been about innocence or guilt and that’s why exculpatory evidence is not required.
The Grand Jury is the check on a prosecutor’s power so that a DA can’t just bring ANY charge against ANYONE, ANY time he/she feels like it. So, for major crimes, the DA or AG must go before the Grand Jury and present that prima facie evidence to at least establish that there is at least enough to CHARGE the person. NOT convict. Just to charge.
That is why McCulloch so misused this process. Well, it was two-fold. Firstly, he gave them all the evidence WITHOUT the benefit of rigorous cross examination. Trial juries at least have the adversarial process of the trial in which both sides CONTEST the evidence and THEN they can sort out the evidence. The Grand Jury in the Wilson case didn’t have that. They had the raw evidence and were forced in many cases to accept suspect evidence as is and then make a judgment based on that. If a person receives a proper defense, the trial jury isn’t put through that.
Secondly, DA McCulloch did NOT provide the narrative of WHY the evidence supported the charges. He stated himself that he gave the evidence to the Grand Jury and let them come to their own conclusion and EVEN IN cases where Grand Juries are investigative (like RICO cases), the DA or AG still goes to often great lengths to explain how the evidence supports the charges expressly in order to get indictments.
The very common misunderstanding in this case is that what DA McCulloch did is reasonable.
It not only isn’t reasonable, it’s unconscionable, unethical and sets a potentially disastrous legal precedent for high profile cases. Worse, it preys on the common ignorance of the legal system. DA McCulloch knows full damn well that if Michael Brown had killed Officer Wilson and claimed self-defense, even if there were video directly exonerating him, IT STILL WOULD HAVE GONE TO TRIAL. And the words he would have used were, “it’s important for this to run its course through the legal process”.
Now, if DA McCulloch simply didn’t want to charge Office Wilson, that was always at his discretion. He could have simply refused to charge him. Heck, he could have properly used the Grand Jury, GOT an indictment AND STILL not charged him. That’s happened before, too. Getting an indictment doesn’t automatically mean that the DA must file those charges.
But what DA McCulloch did was wrong on a lot of levels. Unfortunately, because they are procedural, it’s even easier for those who are on Team Wilson (not saying you, just saying those that clearly ARE on Team Wilson) to create tons and tons of obfuscation about how getting it so wrong is OKAY… because the outcome is what they wanted.
znModeratorLooks like a brilliant move to me,he looked fine in coverage against Oakland but in any case love the way he hits!
I agree.
There was a lot of speculation in this thread, including by me, but now we have seen the games. That was early on…now we know more.
Just to state the obvious–Wms. is using Barron as a part of big nickel packages (4 DL, 2 LB, 3 safeties, 2 CBs) and so far Barron has been a kind of hybrid LB/DB.
It has worked very well IMO. So I think, well, they use the nickel more than the base 4/3 D, so why not. It puts a dynamic player on the field in a useful position (ie as the nickel safety) and I think yes worth the trade.
The future? Will he be a true FS, a true SS, or continue to be the nickel?
I dunno…but I trust them to take good advantage of what they have.
When it all comes together (sooner or later) I think this secondary will be as good as any the Rams have ever had. I really believe that.
,
znModeratorThanks for that post, Dak. Here’s more, from off the net
==
Fearsome
Very classy move by the Redskins:
A moment of silence for Bryan Burwell, and an empty seat in the press box with his name on it. Extremely classy move, and just another reminder that life is bigger than sports.
I had the privilege to meet Bryan several times, and everything that has been said about him is completely true. He was a very kind and warm person. Treated everyone with class and respect, no matter who it was. He will be missed.
RIP buddy
znModerator(On if it’s been a while since he could have an injury report will all probable players)
“It’s been a while. It’s good stuff.”Eerie.
What the hell happened to the Rams multiple seasons long injury streak.
It’s…unfamiliar territory…
znModeratorWas Randall Cunningham not a refined pocket passer? Was Warren Moon not really that mobile? Seems like there have been guys who were good at both.
I think the way Cosell is defining it, if you can run, cool, but first and foremost you have to pass from the pocket.
Cunningham of course became a better passer with the Vikes, and Moon could always pass the ball at a high level. Young learned to become a pocket passer, etc.
I think if he had his choice, he would take a guy like Luck who can pass but then can run, but if that wasn’t there (and it rarely is) he would be just fine with a pure passer. I think what he doesn’t want is a tweener who has to learn to become a passer…a guy like CK.
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