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znModeratorThis is confusing since it rates players based upon potential or career apex. In other words you’re mixing two scales. Draft scale for potential in which the elite talent can still be a miserable bust. Player scale in which the players you listed are only at their particular ceiling, the height of their career. My 2 cents.
Yeah that’s fair. In other words, I think it will be seen as fair after a couple of years, when all the info is in.
znModeratorAs of today, it seems more of the mocks have offensive linemen sliding out of the first round. That makes it more likely that one of them might be there for the Rams at 41.
You have definite draftnik genes, and I don’t. So in reference to what you said…what’s your spontaneous informed guess about how often or to what extent mock drafts are right about things like that? That is, do the mock drafts map real trends when it comes to the real draft?
April 24, 2015 at 11:57 pm in reply to: new draft thread — mocks, scouting reports, different takes, etc. #23126znModeratorBreaking down Rams best case scenarios for ’15 draft
Lande/Shonka
ST. LOUIS — One week from today, 32 NFL teams will go on the clock, and the infinite speculation of who-goes-where in the draft will become a finite reality.
Until then, it’s anyone’s educated guess.
The St. Louis Rams currently hold the 10th and 41st picks through the first two rounds. The team boasts a jaw-dropping defensive front and an offense that needs help yesterday — certainly on the line, and possibly at the wide receiver position, where Tavon Austin and Kenny Britt have done well but leave room for a potential No. 1 receiver. Next week’s draft, if the cards fall right, could go a long way toward fixing both problems.
In fact, Dan Shonka of Ourlads’ NFL Scouting Services thinks it could be a promising draft for St. Louis.
“I think they could get three starters at 10, 41 and 72 (in the third round),” he says. “It’s just a matter of how they come off the board and who they decide on.”
With that in mind, here are several best-case scenarios for the Rams through the first two rounds.
BEST-CASE SCENARIOS, ROUND 1 (pick 10):
Amari Cooper (Alabama) or Kevin White (West Virginia), wide receivers
They’re the top-rated receivers in the draft, and Shonka, though he admits it will take some luck, could see either one available at the 10th slot. He suggests that quarterbacks Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, two highly rated interior defensive linemen, as many as four pass rushers and perhaps one offensive lineman could be taken before a wide receiver goes off the board — which means the Rams, sitting at 10, might get their No. 1 receiver.
Not a bad way to welcome new quarterback Nick Foles to St. Louis.
Brandon Scherff (Iowa) and Andrus Peat (Stanford), offensive line
Should neither wide receiver be available, two other best-case scenarios for the Rams would fall on the offensive line: guard Brandon Scherff and tackle Andrus Peat.
Will Scherff happen? Questionable. Scherff is currently the highest-rated offensive lineman on the NFL’s draft tracker, and if an O-lineman goes before the 10th pick, it will likely be him. But he also gives the Rams help just where they need it most. Tackle Jake Long and center Scott Wells aren’t returning, and Greg Robinson, a rookie last season, is still developing.
“I think that would be a home run for them. It would give them the opportunity to provide protection for whomever’s going to be their quarterback,” Russ Lande of GM Jr Scouting says of the Rams landing Scherff. “If they didn’t want him at right tackle, they could end up putting him at guard, or even at center.”
Shonka also likes offensive tackle Andrus Peat from Stanford, though he thinks the Giants might snag him with the ninth pick.
“The Rams could take him and then put him at right tackle,” Shonka says, “and then, if (Greg) Robinson can’t do it at left, maybe go ahead and put Peat over there, ’cause he’s used to playing left tackle and everything in a pro-style system, and then put Robinson at right tackle.”
Regardless of whose name is on the back of the jersey, the odds are the Rams’ 10th pick will be an offensive lineman.
“I think it’s probably the position that’s most likely to be selected, if you were to assign each position a percentage chance of getting picked,” Lande says.
After all, as Shonka points out: “It doesn’t matter who your quarterback is if you can’t protect him. It doesn’t matter who your receivers are.”
BEST-CASE SCENARIOS, ROUND 2:
Dorial Green-Beckham (Missouri), wide receiver
He’s tied for the sixth-best grade on the NFL draft tracker, but he’s also had a few run-ins with the law, which may cause teams looking for a sure bet early to pass him by.
But in Round 2, Lande could see the Rams taking the risk.
“Knowing Les Snead and Jeff Fisher’s willingness with guys like Janoris Jenkins and Alec Ogletree, and bringing back a guy like Kenny Britt, their willingness to take gambles on character guys, I think they would go for Dorial Green-Beckham,” Lande says. “If he’s sitting there at 41, I don’t know how you pass on him. He’s a freak talent. And at least everything I’ve been told is, although he has his issues, he’s not a bad kid inherently.”
Jay Ajayi (Boise State), running back
The Rams’ offense finished 28th overall in the league last year in total offensive yards, and their running game, though it ranked better than their passing, finished only 20th. While it’s unclear if a running back would be the Rams’ second-round priority, Shonka thinks Ajayi could be a “big-time running back” for them, and currently has the Boise State product penciled in for the Rams at 41.
“He’s a very powerful type runner,” Shonka says.
Cedric Ogbuehi (Texas A&M) and D.J. Humphries (Florida), offensive line
Shonka admits Humphries may go late in the first round, but adds that this draft features a cluster of guys with comparable-level talent at their respective positions, which means, depending on which directions teams go, Humphries may be a “possibility” at 41, and certainly a best-case scenario. Ogbuehi, meanwhile, suffered an ACL tear in Texas A&M’s bowl game, but Shonka likes his upside.
“This guy’s got a lot of talent, and he’s athletic,” he says.
And, just for fun, one totally unrealistic, but definitely best-case scenario:
What if the impossible suddenly becomes possible, and Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota is still on the board at 10?
“That ain’t gonna happen,” Lande says, while admitting the situation would be “perfect.”
“If he’s there, that, to me, is a spot you have to take him in,” Lande says. “And I’m leery of him, because I think he’s a project, because of the adjustment he’s gonna have going to a traditional offense.
“But I believe with the Rams, I mean, they have the tools to have an elite, top five defense in the league, and they’ve got some good, young running backs. … If they could run the ball a lot, with Mariota’s athleticism, he could avoid some of the pressure that’s gonna come from that offensive line. And if he’s just avoiding mistakes, they could probably be an above-average offense, or at least average. And that would probably be enough to get them to eight or nine wins, because of that defense and (kicker Greg Zuerlein).”
Landry says Mariota could be a “rock star” in terms of his ability to infuse life into the Rams’ offense, which begs another question: Would a best-case scenario involve the Rams trading up for him?
“I don’t think they would try to get to two,” Lande says, while pointing out Snead and Fisher aren’t afraid of taking risks. “But I will tell you, if he doesn’t go two, and he gets down to that five area, I think then they will realistically think about it.”
Shonka points out, however, that the Rams have only six picks in this year’s draft, which might preclude trading up.
“I don’t think you want to give a king’s ransom to go up there,” he says.
znModeratorYou started earlier than I did. My favorite pre-79 games are the 1978 home game against the Steelers (the Cappelletti bowl) and the 1978 home games against Dallas.
znModeratorYeah I used to like him. Now he’s gone all 1984.
znModeratorIan Rapoport @RapSheet
#Bama WR Amari Cooper has emerged as the consensus No. 1 player at his position, according to GMs and scouts. Kevin White a close 2nd.
3:16 PM – 24 Apr 2015April 24, 2015 at 7:01 pm in reply to: OL in the draft: Rams like Flowers? … Smith, Fisher, etc. #23115znModerator“Because this year’s class lacks an obvious Pro Bowl left tackle, it has been miscast as a below-average group,” says Rob Rang of NFLDraftScout.com. “In reality, clubs looking for help on the interior or right tackle can find players capable of competing for starting positions as rookies throughout the top 100.”
Hey. And the Rams are interested in obtaining OL. That works out nice for them.
znModeratorYeah that play in SF was completely out of nowhere unexpected.
It would be even more memorable if of course the Rams had a winning record that year.
Interesting on the Hadl to Jackson vid. They ended up trading away both Hadl and Jackson. The Jackson trade I didn’t get. He went on to play well for 4 productive seasons after they dumped him.
znModeratorInsider Buzz: Bradford Wants to Rebuild Value Before Talking Deal with Eagles
Sam Bradford has a new home in Philadelphia but doesn’t have a new contract yet.
Will Bradford and the Eagles discuss a contract soon? Why is Bradford hesitant to discuss a new deal?
Watch as Bleacher Report NFL Insider Jason Cole discusses Bradford’s situation in Philadelphia in the video above.
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2015 NFL Draft rumors: Sam Bradford thinks the Eagles might trade him
http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/04/2015_nfl_draft_rumors_sam_bradford_thinks_the_eagl.html
Even Sam Bradford, the guy the Eagles have insisted is in their future plans, believes the Eagles have a chance at Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota.
With trade rumors flying as the 2015 NFL Draft inches closer, a report from Jason Cole of Bleacher Report states that Bradford, recently acquired by the Eagles, believes there is a chance he could be traded during the draft.
Bradford doesn’t know where he’s going to be. Yes, he believes the Eagles are going to keep him at this point in time, trust them, but only so far because the [2015 NFL Draft] has not played out. So he believes there is still a possibility that he could be traded somewhere else. And if that’s the case, he wants to wait to see whether that’s a team he ultimately wants to stay with long-term.
Bradford doesn’t know where he’s going to be. Yes, he believes the Eagles are going to keep him at this point in time, trust them, but only so far because the [2015 NFL Draft] has not played out. So he believes there is still a possibility that he could be traded somewhere else. And if that’s the case, he wants to wait to see whether that’s a team he ultimately wants to stay with long-term.
Bradford’s lack of certainty about his future is apparently why he has yet to sign an extension with the team — that and the Eagles aren’t knocking down his door to do so.
Per Cole:
In talking to sources around the league and close to Bradford, basically what’s happened is Bradford is not willing to accept a substandard deal based on the injuries that he’s suffered the past two years and have kept him off the field.
So what does this all mean?
Bradford thinking he might get traded, and the fact that he hasn’t signed an extension with the Eagles, only adds more fuel to the fire that the Eagles do, in fact, intend on trading him.
One possible trade that has been floated around league circles is a three-team deal in which the Eagles send Bradford to Cleveland for the 19th overall pick, and then flip that pick to the Tennessee Titans (along with No. 20, Fletcher Cox and Mychal Kendricks) for the right to draft Mariota at No. 2 overall.
Whether Mariota ultimately ends up on the Eagles remains to be seen, but the closer the draft gets, it sure seems like head coach Chip Kelly is gearing up for a fight to get him.
April 24, 2015 at 4:55 pm in reply to: OL in the draft: Rams like Flowers? … Smith, Fisher, etc. #23108znModeratorRams draft preview: Offensive line
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/17881/rams-draft-preview-offensive-line-2
EARTH CITY, Mo. — The NFL draft is set to begin April 30 and the St. Louis Rams hold six picks in this year’s selection process. For the next week and a half, we’ll take a look at a different position every day — what the Rams have in place at a position, what they need, when they might address it and some possible fits.
We continue the countdown with a look at this year’s crop of offensive linemen.
In place: Greg Robinson, Rodger Saffold, Barrett Jones, Tim Barnes, Demetrius Rhaney, Garrett Reynolds, Brandon Washington, Travis Bond.
What’s needed: As we’ve discussed almost non-stop since the end of the season, there is no more pressing need on the entire roster than the offensive line. The Rams have Robinson and Saffold penciled into the starting lineup, and coach Jeff Fisher has made clear Robinson will be the left tackle moving forward. After that, it’s mostly guesswork. As it stands, Jones, Barnes and Rhaney will compete for the starting center job, a job left open by the departure of Scott Wells, who was released in March. There is still an opening at guard and right tackle, though, as Joe Barksdale remains unsigned and Reynolds was brought in for depth. It’s possible the Rams could bring Barksdale back and they also have interest in guard Justin Blalock, though it seems unlikely at this point that anything would happen before the draft. Jake Long and Wells remain available and likely will for a bit, but a reunion with Wells is more likely than Long at this point. Either way, the Rams must come out of the draft and the final stages of free agency with a starting-caliber guard and tackle at minimum, and another center would also be helpful even if the Rams are hopeful about the potential of the three on the roster.
Possible fits: The good news for the Rams is that this draft has no shortage of offensive linemen who could come in and make a difference right away. The bad news is there might not be a player worthy of going 10th in the draft if the team wants to address the issue early. Iowa’s Brandon Scherff is considered the top lineman in the draft, but many seem to believe he’s best suited to play guard instead of tackle. It’s not crazy to take a guard at 10 anymore and the Rams have definite interest in Scherff even though it’s unclear if he paid a pre-draft visit to St. Louis. As for that list, there is no shortage of players who are known to have visited. Stanford tackle Andrus Peat, Florida tackle D.J. Humphries, Pittsburgh tackle T.J. Clemmings, Miami tackle Ereck Flowers, Louisville tackle Jamon Brown, and LSU tackle La’el Collins are some of the edge protectors known to have visited. The Rams have also brought in interior players such as Florida State center Cameron Erving, South Carolina guard A.J. Cann, Duke guard Laken Tomlinson, Hobart guard Ali Marpet, Florida State guard Tre Jackson and Arizona State guard Jamil Douglas. From that group, there are indications the Rams are high on Peat because he comes from an power-run style offense and is polished enough as a pass protector while maintaining some upside. Guys like Cann, Ervin, Tomlinson and Jackson fit a similar mold and could probably plug and play right away as well.
Verdict: There is really no doubt the Rams are going to draft an offensive lineman, probably more than one. The only question is how early they will pull the trigger. Though the need is obvious, the value with the No. 10 pick might not intersect with that need. If it does, Scherff or Peat with Flowers as a dark horse seem like the most likely candidates. And for what it’s worth, though media mock drafts might have Peat and Flowers going much lower, there is a sense from scouts that teams value them in the range of the Rams’ top pick. If the Rams can find a trade partner and move down, that would likely bring names like Collins, Humphries and Erving into the mix. After that, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see the Rams use a second or third round pick on a player like Tomlinson, Cann, Marpet, Clemmings, Jackson or Brown. With six picks in the draft, the Rams don’t have a ton of firepower, but the guess here is that the Rams will use two picks in the first two days on offensive linemen.
znModeratorFowler, Williams at the head of the class on defense
By Jim Thomas
For weeks, even months, the predominant draft discussion has centered around Florida State’s Jameis Winston vs. Oregon’s Marcus Mariota. Who’s the top quarterback? And who goes No. 1 overall?
The defensive version of that debate, much less hyped, is Leonard Williams or Dante Fowler. Who’s the best defensive player in the draft? Is it Fowler, the end/outside linebacker from Florida, or Williams, the end/tackle from Southern California?
Most scouts and draft analysts think both have the potential to be perennial Pro Bowlers at the next level. Our Post-Dispatch positional rankings have Fowler ahead of Williams because of his pass-rush skills. In this day and age of the NFL, pass-rush ability trumps all else on that side of the ball.
Fowler can get around the edge, and get to the passer. He is powerful, athletic and knows how to defeat blocks.
“He just turns me on every time I watch the tape,” said Rick Venturi, the former Rams assistant coach and current NFL radio analyst.
He’ll get no argument from Fowler there.
“My film speaks for itself,” Fowler said.
Fowler has a quick first step and plays with a lot of energy. He’s a collision player, who seeks out and enjoys contact. He had 34 tackles for loss in 25 career starts for the Gators, and registered 8 ½ sacks last season when he was named team captain and team MVP.
He turned pro a year early, saying the firing of coach Will Muschamp was the “tipping point” in his decision to skip his senior season.
But before you start carving that bust for Fowler in Canton, he’s not perfect. His run defense needs work: just watch the tape of Louisiana State’s offensive lineman La’el Collins working him over for proof.
But you can always getting better at run defense; lots of pass-rushers do once they reach the NFL. It’s usually a lot more difficult the other way around — that is, developing run defenders into pass-rushers. Fowler definitely has the kind of skills that are in high demand in the NFL, including 4.60 speed in the 40, which is really moving for a 261-pounder.
“He’s a terrific player,” new Atlanta head coach Dan Quinn said. “I’ve known him all the way through, growing up. He has that kind of (special) versatility. He can play down (on the line). He can play inside or outside (at linebacker). That’s the way they tried to feature him there.”
Quinn was Florida’s defensive coordinator in 2012 during Fowler’s true freshman year in Gainesville. Atlanta picks eighth overall, but Fowler should be long gone by then.
Many mocks don’t have him getting past Jacksonville at No. 3 overall. As for Southern Cal’s Williams, most mocks had him going to Tennessee at No. 2 overall earlier this offseason.
But now it looks like Mariota will go second overall — either to Tennessee or a team trading into that spot. If that’s the case, the Jaguars could opt for Williams instead. Even if that’s the case, Fowler almost certainly falls no lower than Washington at No. 5.
The Rams didn’t bother to bring in either defensive stalwart for a pre-draft visit, perhaps realizing it wouldn’t be worth the effort since they won’t get close to No. 10 overall.
Williams has versatility of his own, although in different ways than Fowler. At 302 pounds, he could be an ideal fit at end for a team running a 3-4 alignment. In a 4-3, he could be a disruptive tackle. Either way, he will undoubtedly be moved around by the team that drafts him.
“One of the biggest things that made me so versatile in my career is I played for three different D-line coaches while I’ve been at USC … and three defensive coordinators as well,” Williams said. “I’ve played in a lot of defensive schemes. With that came moving around a lot. The versatility came.”
A former rugby player who goes by the nickname Big Cat, Williams was USC’s first two-time All-American at defensive end in 55 years after registering 80 tackles, seven sacks, three forced fumbles and an interception last season. He did all that despite an early-season high ankle sprain, an injury that can linger for weeks.
In a different draft year, Williams or Fowler probably would be strong candidates for the No. 1 overall pick. But it’s hard to compete against elite quarterbacks for the top spot when you play on the other side of the ball.
“I would say from the previous years, sometimes it’s taking a chance when you take a quarterback,” Williams said. “You never know what you’re going to get.”
Williams regards himself as more of a sure thing.
“I’m going to bring that disruption and physical-ness, and I’m going to get to the quarterback and get some sacks,” he said.
And that means he won’t have to wait long to hear his named called next week, even if it’s after both quarterbacks and Fowler.
“I think his beauty is that he can play anywhere up and down the defensive line of scrimmage,” said NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock. “He reminds me of Richard Seymour, who the Patriots took years ago at No. 6 and became one of the preeminent defensive linemen in the NFL for years.”
znModeratorNFL draft: Defensive linemen
By Jim Thomas
CREAM OF THE CROP
Player, positon, school, height, weight
DANTE FOWLER, DE/OLB, Florida, 6-3, 261
• Many regard him as best defensive player in the draft and an impact player.
LEONARD WILLIAMS, DE/DT, Southern Cal, 6-5, 302
• Many regard him as best defensive player in draft and Pro Bowler-in-waiting.
SHANE RAY, DE/OLB, Missouri, 6-3, 249
• Ultra-competitive; highly productive; foot issues contributed to so-so pro day.
DANNY SHELTON, DT, Washington, 6-2, 339
• The best run-stuffer in the draft could go in top 10; can also push the pocket.
BUD DUPREE, DE/OLB, Kentucky, 6-4, 269
• A mind-boggling 4.56 in the 40 with a 42-inch vertical at nearly 270 pounds.
DON’T OVERLOOK
Arik Armstead, DT, Oregon; Malcolm Brown, DT, Texas; Markus Golden, DE/OLB, Missouri; Eddie Goldman, DT, Florida State; Jordan Phillips, DT, Oklahoma.
LOCAL LINE
Lingering foot problem is a concern, but Mizzou’s Ray still looks like a top 10 pick. His Tigers teammate, Golden (Affton High), looks like a second- or third-rounder.
FUN FACT
Washington’s Shelton was the only player in the country named first-team all-American and first-team Academic all-American last season.
QUOTABLE
“As the game grew into a passing league, there’s a new generation of guys like a Von Miller and Aldon Smith. I try to work my game around them.’’—Florida’s DANTE FOWLER
RAMS NEEDS
DT Kendall Langford was released by the Rams in a cap-related move and subsequently signed with Indianapolis. But he has been replaced by Nick Fairley as the team’s third defensive tackle. At end, all five players on last year’s roster are back, headed by starters Robert Quinn and Chris Long. So other than perhaps a fourth DT, the Rams really shouldn’t be looking for help. But we all know Jeff Fisher loves collecting edge rushers, and he could be staring at one at No. 10 overall.
RATING THE FIELD
It’s an excellent year for edge rushers (some of whom will be listed as linebackers Saturday in the Post-Dispatch’s draft series). Pass rushers always get pushed up in the draft, but there’s also lots to choose from at defensive tackle. So when all is said and done, there could be 10 defensive linemen/edge rushers taken in Round 1.
znModeratorNFL Owners Saw Dueling Presentations in St. Louis and Los Angeles Stadium Race
Luke Schnake
In the battle to convince the NFL that St. Louis is a worthy host, Dave Peacock reportedly came from his meeting with league officials feeling good.
Peacock, along with attorney Bob Blitz, development consultant John Loyd, and Eli Hoisington, vice president of HOK, the local firm in charge of the stadium’s design, comprised the St. Louis delegation for Wednesday’s New York meetings on the current stadium arms race.
dave peacock-3
Peacock presented the St. Louis stadium plans to NFL owners and executives in a Wednesday meeting.The St. Louis group’s pitch included a multimedia presentation followed by a question-and-answer session with NFL officials including Roger Goddell, and the league’s Los Angeles opportunities commission comprised of team owners.
The committee includes owners Art Rooney II of Pittsburgh, Robert Kraft of New England, Clark Hunt of Kansas City, John Mara of the Giants, Jerry Richardson of Carolina, and Bob McNair of Houston. This group is tasked with evaluating all city plans in the stadium melee.
It’s been said some of these members are sympathetic to St. Louis’ stadium plight.
At March’s Phoenix owner’s meetings, Kraft in particular commented that the league had to be “very careful and responsible to different markets who really step up and do what they want to do (in terms of keeping a team).”
Kraft went on to say the league has a “responsibility to make sure there’s a team in that market.”
League execs also saw plans for stadiums in Los Angeles-area towns Inglewood and Carson at the meetings. Stan Kroenke is backing the $1.8 billion Inglewood project, while the joint effort by the Chargers and Raiders is to be co-inhabitants of a Carson stadium.
Rams executive vice president Kevin Demoff sat in on the St. Louis presentation and was also present with Kroenke for the Inglewood portion. Demoff is not thought to have had any participation in the St. Louis showing.
According to a story by the LA Times’ Sam Farmer, “St. Louis went first, giving a half-hour presentation, followed by hourlong presentations by Kroenke and by the twosome of Chargers owner Dean Spanos and Raiders owner Mark Davis.”
Carson’s city council voted unanimously in support of the Chargers/Raiders project Wednesday, while Inglewood’s council voted in favor of theirs in February as well.
The Rams named a construction group Monday to build their structure along the north riverfront, but questions of financing and land approval linger.
Peacock is expected to break his silence Friday regarding specifics of the meeting. A video released by HOK with a flyby of the possible new St. Louis NFL digs, can be seen below:
znModeratorblueboys69
From what I’ve been told, they feel like they have the starting center on the roster right now. Some in the draft could happen and someone could fall in their laps, but the closer we get the more I think OT or OG in the 1st or 2nd round. And judging how round 1 plays out, maybe both by round 3.
some more on this, ie. roster guys possibly developing …
..
from off the net
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CoachO
Offensive linemen routinely take a couple of years to develop into quality players. There are many more 3rd & 4th year players turning into quality starters than “plug & play” impact players in years one and two. While most fans tend to under value guys they don’t know much about, IMO, if this coaching staff wasn’t comfortable with guys that are still here, it would have been very easy to let them go as well. At some point, guys who they have chosen to keep around for the 3rd and 4th year, will show why. As I said, I think there are a whole lot more cases of players such as Barnes who entering his 4th year develop into a solid NFL player, than can be made when talking about the “plug and play” success stories.
For example Washington has obviously shown them something to still be here. He missed a lot of training camp last year, but the first day back, he was inserted immediately into the mix. I will be the first to admit, he looked much improved over his first training camp here. So, at least for me, if he improves over what I saw last year, he could be a shining example of developing.
Saying that drafting Barrett Jones was a mistake because he was still recovering from his foot injury just doesn’t make sense to me, unless people who are saying that somehow expected him to be an immediate “plug and play” addition. IMO, they never planned on his first year being anything more than a “red-shirt” year, and they would and could develop him. Last year’s back injury did more to delay his progress than the foot injury coming out. It was the back injury from LAST YEAR that has hindered his progress. He was rendered totally inactive for 10 weeks and was hardly close to being in game shape even when he was activated in late October. And based on early reports, he is bigger and stronger and HEALTHY reporting to the team workouts this week.
There is a huge difference between a player who cannot play due to legitimate injuries (B. Jones) and someone who isn’t able to get on the field because of a lack of talent (Givens).
Barnes can and has played Guard. So has Barrett Jones. That they didn’t use them, should only exaggerate the point that they just weren’t available. Just run down the list of players who ended up on the injured list at one point or another: Scott Wells (infection, elbow injury); Barrett Jones (back surgery); Tim Barnes (pinched nerved, shoulder injury, bruised ribs); Demetrius Rhaney (knee injury – IR); Jake Long (ACL – IR) Rodger Saffold (shoulder injury); Mike Person (shoulder); Brandon Washington (missed 3 weeks in training camp). Mike Person was the #10 man on the depth chart and he was pushed into duty due to all of the injuries. Plus players such as Jones, Washington, Barnes and Rhaney all offer a lot of versatility in that they ALL can play multiple positions.
When they signed Scott Wells, he was coming off a ProBowl season. Wells wasn’t injured when they signed him. He had a MINOR procedure to clean up his knee. He was ready to go in game one. His knee had nothing to do with his broken foot. His knee wasn’t the reason he broke his foot in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season. Prior to that, he had been a model of consistency for the Packers in terms of durability. IMO, it’s a revisionist approach to second guess the signing based on his “being injury prone”.
It’s quite subjective to say that Wells has been bad for the last two years, when in fact, he was pretty good when healthy. There in lies the biggest issue with Scott Wells. When he came back from the broken foot in 2012, he played well, as did the entire unit at that point. When he was on the field in 2013, he played “well enough”. He missed the last 4 games, and Barnes stepped in.
Admittedly, at the time, Tim Barnes was not ready. Physically, he wasn’t strong enough. But that all changed when he came back to training camp LAST YEAR. I have posted this in a few other threads, all the talk was about how Barrett Jones had reshaped his body, and gotten stronger. But, the more noticeable change, was in Tim Barnes. The day he stepped onto the practice field, he “looked” the part of a legitimate NFL Lineman. He had a very good training camp. But being the last man standing , so to speak, (Wells recovering from the tick bite, Jones having back surgery, and Rhaney being a raw rookie), Barnes took 2 out of every 3 reps in camp for the first 3 weeks. As he became more dinged up, (pinched nerve in his neck), and with the return of a now undersized Scott Wells, they moved forward with the plan was to have the veteran presence on the field.
That being said, one has to assume they will add someone early in the draft to throw in the mix, and round out the unit heading into the OTAs and Training Camp. And until Barksdale and/or Blaylock sign elsewhere, I would think they remain part of the equation moving forward.
April 23, 2015 at 11:33 pm in reply to: vids & audios: Matt Bowen, Schefter w/ McShay+Kiper, Casserly w/ Eisen #23071znModeratorWith one week before the 2015 NFL draft gets underway, it’s time to round out our positional reviews with the draft-eligible defensive backs. And who better to talk with than Matt Bowen, former NFL safety and current Lead NFL Analyst with Bleacher Report? Matt brings his unique knowledge of pro schemes and college players to our podcast, and there’s a wealth of information here.
Bowen talks exclusively about DBs, but he is very informative. Good listen.
April 23, 2015 at 9:50 pm in reply to: OL in free agency … Barksdale, Blalock, Wisniewski, etc. #23070znModeratorThe only thing for certain is that the Rams starting Center next year is not going to have much – if any – starting experience.
I don;t know what will happen, but if this does, it would not be rare. Time to drum up a reminder: several centers played last year as rookies. In comparison, at least Jones and Rhaney have gone through a training camp or 2.
Rookie centers starting last year include
ROUND PICK PLAYER GAMES STARTED
4 105 Bryan Stork 11
4 111 Russell Bodine 16
5 161 Corey Linsley 16
6 205 Luke Bowanko 14April 23, 2015 at 9:42 pm in reply to: OL in free agency … Barksdale, Blalock, Wisniewski, etc. #23068znModerator
from that article:Wiz was the last serviceable Center on the Free Agent on the market. What the Rams lack with proven commodities at center, they make up for with youthful options. The team currently has Tim Barnes, Demetrius Rhaney, and Barrett Jones under contract.
Barnes filled in reasonably well in 2013 when filling in for Scott Wells. The Rams thought enough of Barnes to bring him back after non-tendering him. Rhaney has been praised frequently by Fisher, but was unable to do much last season due to injury. After a decorated career at Alabama, Jones has done next to nothing in the NFL and is largely an unknown.
Barring a trade – and with Snead you can never rule that out – the Rams not in position to draft a Center in the 1st round. Cameron Erving is the highest rated Center in the draft and he would be a reach at #10. After Erving, you have a cluster of players who could be selected in rounds 3-5. I’m not saying that those players aren’t going to be good pros, but I question whether any of them would be an immediate upgrade over the group that the Rams have.
The only thing for certain is that the Rams starting Center next year is not going to have much – if any – starting experience.
April 23, 2015 at 9:37 pm in reply to: new draft thread — mocks, scouting reports, different takes, etc. #23055znModeratorfrom off the net
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RockRam
There is exactly ONE elite player in this draft. And that elite player is Leonard Williams.
Some might argue that Beasley or Gregory are elite (not me). But both are indeed upper tier.
There are no other “elite” players in this draft. The rest do not measure up to elite or transcendent unless we greatly degrade the meaning of that term.
Robinson was elite-ish (but he was so raw that it’s hard for me to go all the way and just say he was elite). There are no Robinsons in this draft.If you take Cooper, you’re getting a very good player. Not elite. He is not Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. All the WRs have some good qualities but none have that over the top HOF look written on them.
If you take Trae Waynes, you are not getting Revis or Neon. You are not getting elite, but you are getting a very good player.
No doubt Scherff is not elite. But you are getting a very good player, and for the Rams at a position of great need.
Elite isn’t in this draft, unless someone outperforms their evaluation. And even then 1 or 2 good years doesn’t make an elite NFL player. So for instance, I wouldn’t at all put Julio Jones in the elite category. You have to stay on the field to be eliteznModeratorfrom off the net
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stlfourlife53
I Heard Fisher Has “High Regard” For Todd Gurley
Todd McShay said on NFL Live yesterday that he knows Jeff Fisher has “high regard” for Todd Gurley. Ive been saying more than once that it wouldnt shock me if the Rams selected Gurley. He is my sleeper pick for the Rams.
April 23, 2015 at 8:45 pm in reply to: Cosell: on QBs, RBs, WRs/TEs, OL, DL, LBs, DBs – podcasts & vids #23052znModeratorI took all 3 of Cosell’s podcast sites and updated the posts. So everything is in order and complete as of today. It was getting kind of messy.
Looks good. There’s a ton.
April 23, 2015 at 8:44 pm in reply to: vids & audios: Matt Bowen, Schefter w/ McShay+Kiper, Casserly w/ Eisen #23051znModeratorCharley Casserly of NFL Media Talks NFL Draft on The RE Show – 4/22/15
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Adam Schefter joins Todd McShay, Mel Kiper Jr. and Chris Sprow to discuss his days creating mock drafts, the odds Tennessee trades the second overall pick and much more.
znModeratorfrom off the net
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blueboys69
Here’s some nuggets I’ve heard in recent days from a couple of different sources..
Barksdale is still a possibility but Rams feel like they could upgrade in the draft.
The Rams like two offensive linemen in this draft that fit that top 10 range and one could slide in there. But, another source told me today the Rams are inquiring about a trade up (maybe as high as 3) for a certain Hawaiian. You have Foles, and a pretty solid QB class next year. I like Mariota, but not sure how you would use in this offense. Anyway if that happens expect Barksdale to come back.
From what I’ve been told, they feel like they have the starting center on the roster right now. Some in the draft could happen and someone could fall in their laps, but the closer we get the more I think OT or OG in the 1st or 2nd round. And judging how round 1 plays out, maybe both by round 3.
From what I hear, they like Erving but he’s in that gray area where even trading back might be still too high. One of my favorite prospects but no team is drafting with any notion to ever move him back outside again. He got moved inside by one of the best college oline coaches in the country. After starting there the year before and he was replaced by a redshirt freshman who played every bit as well as he did. He excelled at center and I think he will continue to grow there.
I don’t mind the idea of a 1st rounder at right tackle. Mainly, because the new CBA makes that much more affordable than it use to be. If they were to draft Peat and he was paid similar money and based on last year’s RT salaries he’s coming in as the 19th highest paid RT in the league. I don’t think it is a league anymore where you can just have one exceptional tackle and another a decent one on the other side. If you can manage to get bookends, you do it.
Also, it’s worth noting that these back ups like Washington, Barnes/Jones have been here from a little while. And, while they haven’t started they do address continuity.
Blalock was coached by Boudreau and plays guard. I’d rather pay Dan Connolly to come home after being the Pats Captain last year than to pay Joe and give him a new position. Not too mention there are some extremely polished guards in this class in Cann and Tomlinson.
znModeratorRams draft preview: Wide receiver
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/17861/rams-draft-preview-wide-receiver-2
EARTH CITY, Mo. — The NFL draft is set to begin April 30 and the St. Louis Rams hold six picks in this year’s selection process. For the next week and a half, we’ll take a look at a different position every day with what the Rams have in place at a position, what they need, when they might address it and some possible fits.
We continue the countdown with a look at this year’s crop of wide receivers.
In place: Kenny Britt, Brian Quick, Tavon Austin, Stedman Bailey, Chris Givens, Damian Williams, Devon Wylie.
What’s needed: As a team, the Rams’ group of wide receivers finished second-to-last in production in 2014, finishing only behind Kansas City’s wideout corps. Some of that can be attributed to poor and inconsistent quarterback play and others might argue that it’s a young group still finding its way but the fact remains that this unit still lacks a true No. 1 option. Britt emerged as a solid threat, particularly on the deep ball and his numbers would’ve been better with more accurate downfield passing, but he’s still never even cracked 800 receiving yards in a season. Quick was on track for a possible breakout year before a serious shoulder/arm injury that ended his season early. His return will happen but whether he picks up where he left off in this, his contract year remains to be seen. Austin has been a disappointment in his first two seasons and though the Rams insist they’re working on ways to get him the ball more in the passing game, that’s been a popular refrain the first two years. Bailey is a solid, if unspectacular option, who can step in. Givens might be fighting for his job. The Rams have some capable wideouts but none really fit the bill as a game-changing, No. 1-caliber type of player.
Possible fits: This class might not trump the historically great group that came out in 2014 but there’s no shortage of talent to be found here. Among the types who might fit the No. 1 label, Alabama’s Amari Cooper, West Virginia’s Kevin White and Louisville’s DeVante Parker are generally regarded as the cream of this year’s crop. Cooper and White, in particular, are thought to be top-10 picks with Parker not far behind. For those willing to roll the dice on a physically gifted but troubled type, Oklahoma’s Dorial Green-Beckham is also thought of as a potential top receiver. The Rams have expressed interest in all four, hosting each on a pre-draft visit to Rams Park. Beyond the top echelon is another group that includes Central Florida’s Breshad Perriman, Arizona State’s Jaelen Strong, USC’s Nelson Agholor and Ohio State’s Devin Smith.
Verdict: It still seems like a little bit of a long shot that Rams coach Jeff Fisher would use a top-10 pick on a wideout for the second time in three years, especially since the team is still waiting on Austin to pan out. But it would also be silly to entirely rule it out because there are a couple of wideouts who would represent a great intersection of need and value at No. 10 if they fall. Namely, if Cooper or White makes it to 10, the Rams would have to take a long look. That said, I don’t believe either makes it to the 10th spot and though I believe the Rams do like Parker, they’d probably tend to lean somewhere else if he’s the best wideout available at No. 10. Beyond that, it wouldn’t be a surprise if the Rams grabbed someone from that second tier in the second or even third round. But with only six picks, if the Rams can’t get a receiver they believe capable of being a top option, they might again choose to address other positions instead.
April 22, 2015 at 11:41 pm in reply to: Rams Near Deal To Spend Part of Training Camp With Cowboys In CA #23029April 22, 2015 at 11:34 pm in reply to: So the great debate continues to divide Ramdom — how good is Barksdale? #23028znModeratorI’ve seen a lot of posts lately that argue
they dont need to draft Olinemen in the early rounds
cause they can get solid players in the later rounds.Everything seems to suggest that only works if you give the guys time to develop. We don’t see many rookie OL starters who are taken after round 3.
April 22, 2015 at 10:21 pm in reply to: So the great debate continues to divide Ramdom — how good is Barksdale? #23022znModeratorIt is like Barksdale was on his way to being a good tackle, then, puff! He is only filler?
You know my theory right. He played fine until in 2014 when the entire OL fell apart in one day (Chiefs game). He was the only healthy competent vet on a line with Robinson, an injured Saffold, an injured Wells, and Joseph. Under those conditions he was much more exposed and went all Miller v. Kearse on us. But I think he is a good solid piece on a line that is at least relatively healthy.
April 22, 2015 at 9:47 pm in reply to: So the great debate continues to divide Ramdom — how good is Barksdale? #23018znModeratorThe Rams are seemingly incapable of developing offensive lineman.
?
Where does that come from?
First “the Rams” in this case are both Fisher and Spags. Under Spags, they drafted 2 linemen–Smith and Saffold. They went 50% on that. At the point that article was written (2013) Fisher had draft 2 OL, Watkins and Jones. There was going to be no info on Jones at that point. Not in 2013. He was a redshirt. Watkins got cut for an eating disorder, not for lack of development. In other words, at that point, in terms of self-developed linemen, the Rams had nothing to work with–they chose to stock the OL through free agency. Then this writer mistakenly thinks that means they made up for their own purported inability to develop them by signing two guys. Well. Uh. Free agency is yet one more way to built a line, it’s not failing…it’s doing something else. In fact the Eagles OL in 2014 was rated #1 by PFF and it had 2 free agents. The GSOT OL had 3 free agents … Nutten McCollum Timmerman.
And it is also true they develped JB as the writer says.
April 22, 2015 at 9:14 pm in reply to: So the great debate continues to divide Ramdom — how good is Barksdale? #23011znModeratorTitans add right tackle Byron Bell
The Titans agreed to terms Wednesday on a one-year contract with veteran tackle Byron Bell, who could replace Michael Oher on the right side of the offensive line.
It’s an interesting twist, considering Oher signed with the Panthers, Bell’s former team, earlier this offseason.
Bell’s deal is worth roughly $1.5 million. He could earn an additional $750,000 depending on playing time. The 6-foot-5, 340-pound free agent visited the Titans earlier this month.Bell started 56 games (41 at right tackle, 15 at left tackle) during his four years with the Panthers, including 15 starts last season. He entered the NFL as an undrafted free agent from the University of New Mexico.
Bell is in line to start for the Titans, but will face competition in training camp from returning linemen Jamon Meredith and Byron Stingily. Tackles Terren Jones and Will Poehls also return. The Titans could also draft a tackle.
Bell struggled last season. According to Pro Football Focus, he allowed nine sacks of Panthers quarterback Cam Newton. The Panthers ran the ball well with Bell in the lineup, however, finishing ninth in the NFL in rushing, including 975 yards in the last five games.
The Titans also hosted former Rams tackle Joe Barksdale recently.
znModeratorDouble trouble: Rams close season with two West Coast trips
By Jim Thomas
OK, the Rams don’t close the season at Seattle this time around. But it’s worse, if you can imagine that. The Rams play at Seattle on Dec. 27, the second-to-last week of the season. And they close the year with another West Coast trip, Jan. 3 in San Francisco.
There’s only one prime-time game on the Rams’ schedule, released Tuesday night by the NFL. It’s a Thursday night game Dec. 17 against Tampa Bay at the Edward Jones Dome. With the potential move to Los Angeles looming after the 2015 season, it could be the last home game for the “St. Louis” Rams. Traditionally, the last home game is Fan Appreciation Day for the Rams.
The Tampa Bay game concludes a stretch of three consecutive home games for the Rams to start December. But then comes at Seattle and at San Francisco. The team has a tough opening stretch, with games against Seattle, Pittsburgh, Arizona, and Green Bay among their first five games _ all playoff and potential Super Bowl contenders.
Rams 2015 Schedule
(Home games in cap; starting times are Central)
Sun., Sept. 13 SEATTLE, noon
Sun., Sept. 20 @ Washington, noon
Sun., Sept. 27 PITTSBURGH, noon
Sun., Oct. 4 @ Arizona, 3:25 p.m.
Sun., Oct. 11 @ Green Bay, noon
Sun., Oct 18 Bye
Sun., Oct. 25 CLEVELAND, noon
Sun., Nov. 1 SAN FRANCISCO, noon
Sun., Nov. 8 @ Minnesota, noon
Sun., Nov. 15 CHICAGO, noon
Sun., Nov. 22 @ Baltimore, noon
Sun., Nov. 29 @ Cincinnati, noon
Sun., Dec. 6 ARIZONA, noon
Sun., Dec. 13 DETROIT, noon
Thurs., Dec. 17 TAMPA BAY, 7:25 p.m.
Sun., Dec. 27 @ Seattle, 3:25 p.m.
Sun., Jan. 3 @ San Francisco, 3:25 p.m.
PRESEASON
Fri., Aug. 14 @ Oakland, 9 p.m.; Sun., Aug. 23 @ Tennessee, 7 p.m.; Sat., Aug. 29 INDIANPOLIS, 7 p.m.; Thurs., Sept. 3 KANSAS CITY, 7 p.m.
April 22, 2015 at 1:41 pm in reply to: new draft thread — mocks, scouting reports, different takes, etc. #23002znModeratorT-Minus 14 Days: Why Team Visits Don’t Matter
Pre-draft visits by prospects get a lot of media attention, but many are calculated ruses by teams looking to gain an advantage. Remember Blake Bortles? Plus, the draft’s best corner (in his own mind) and the first running back off the board
By Robert Klemko
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/04/16/nfl-draft-prospects-team-visits-blake-bortles/
Two gems from Pro Football Focus, which is charting collegians for the first time.
No draft eligible cornerback was targeted as infrequently as Florida State’s Ronald Darby. He was targeted once for every 9.8 snaps in coverage as teams shied away from going after him (preferring to go after PJ Williams, whose 5.4 number was 17th from the bottom)
Todd Gurley had a nation-leading an elusive rating of 123.5 versus Power 5 opponents. The only NFL player to break a 100-plus elusive rating since 2007 was Marshawn Lynch last season. Including the playoffs, Lynch still only reached a 104.2 elusive rating.
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Last year the Jaguars appeared poised to draft any player not named Blake Bortles with the third overall pick. It was leaked, in every manner imaginable, that their interest was not in taking a quarterback, and if they were to grab one, it would be Johnny Manziel out of Texas A&M and not the UCF standout.Jaguars management stressed to the Bortles camp that he wouldn’t be the guy. The team hosted both Bortles and Manziel for visits, and in the interest of spreading that belief, during an early offseason practice before the draft, an offensive coach finished his meeting with the words: “Don’t worry about this stuff. We’ll put it in when Johnny gets here.” The ruse was bolstered many times over.
Having made every effort to raise the value of their No. 3 selection in the eyes of whoever wanted Manziel (the Browns), Jacksonville was in a position to trade back. Instead, they took Bortles third, to the surprise of Bortles, Manziel and just about every schmo who typed up a mock draft last year.
“That’s pretty good,” said one high-level personnel evaluator I spoke with this week, who works for neither the Browns nor the Jaguars. “We’ll invite guys in for the visits as a smokescreen to get other teams thinking we’re interested in certain guys, but that’s pretty good.”
In the same vein, the Buccaneers hosted Manziel and fellow quarterbacks Teddy Bridgewater and Derek Carr for pre-draft visits, but not the player they eventually selected, former Texas A&M wide receiver Mike Evans. There’s a certain level of respect for that kind of gamesmanship this time of year. Most agents and NFL personnel aren’t easily offended, and both sides use grateful media figures like me and those many rungs above me, to dispense bad information. What I’ve done for the past several weeks is try to build a consensus on a few players and scenarios that interest me. Through unanimity, may we discover truth … or something like it.
In my mind, the most disingenuous thing about pre-draft coverage is the media interest in individual visits. Unless you’re talking about quarterbacks, it’s essentially clickbait. All three 2014 first-round passers had visited the teams they were eventually drafted by, and Bridgewater saw the Vikings twice. Outside of those three, only 16 of the remaining 29 first-rounders had pre-draft visits with the clubs that chose them. Among those who weren’t invited to the top 30 party of their chosen teams: Fifth-overall choice Khalil Mack (Raiders) and the seventh pick, Evans (no doubt an effort by the Buccaneers to convince the world they’d pick a QB). Eventual Chargers first-round pick Jason Verrett spent the offseason working out in San Diego, several miles from the Chargers’ facility, and didn’t communicate with the team between the combine and the day they drafted him 25th overall. And yet, reporters continue to break news of leaked visit plans as if it means something. I got in on the shameful practice the other day and I still feel dirty about it.
Five things you need to know about the draftThe Rumors About Rivers
The dots are being connected on a potential big trade between the Chargers and Titans, involving Philip Rivers and the No. 2 pick. Will it happen? Peter King explores the possibility in his mailbag.
FULL STORY
1. The Rivers trade—not gonna happen. As you read in Peter King’s mailbag, the big trade rumor has the Chargers dealing an L.A.-wary Philip Rivers to Tennessee for the second pick, ostensibly to draft Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota, provided the Bucs tab Jameis Winston as the first pick. Here’s a one-time colleague of Tom Telesco and current NFL talent evaluator on the likelihood of such a deal going down: “I worked with Tom [Telesco], and he’s a sharp guy and I miss working with him, but he’s not a guy who gives up picks or a guy who’s going to make a big, bold aggressive move like that. I don’t see it.” Indeed, to see a Pro Bowl-caliber quarterback traded at 33 years old for the second pick in the draft would be arguably the biggest trade since the Vikings traded their future for Herschel Walker.
2. Fowler or Williams? The popular notion that USC defensive tackle Leonard Williams would be the second overall pick for the Titans if not Mariota doesn’t jibe with a handful of decision makers I polled. For some, Dante Fowler, the defensive end out of Florida, is the clear choice as the top defensive player. Said one high-level evaluator: “I think Fowler is the top guy. Tremendous athlete. You see him impact his guy like DeMarcus Ware, Von Miller. Williams is a good player. A top-five pick. I don’t want to say it’s a hype machine, but he’s got some tape where he just disappears and doesn’t make plays.” The statistics culled by Pro Football Focus highlighting Williams as a mediocre pass rusher echo that sentiment.
3. First running back off the board: Wisconsin’s Melvin Gordon or Georgia’s Todd Gurley? While the draftnik community is split, teams are leaning towards Gurley and what is seen as a higher ceiling than Gordon, despite Gurley’s surgically-repaired knee. The predominant thinking is that if you’re going to draft a running back in the first round in 2015, he needs to be a playmaker and not necessarily a workhorse. Said one draft decision maker: “There’s more production on the film with Mel Gordon, but I like guys who can create, and Gurley is such a freak athletically, and he has such explosive plays that really get your attention. The elite athleticism overtakes the conventional football production that you want to see. People will say, if this isn’t an explosive player I’m not going to take a back in [round] one.” If one of the two is going to slip into the second round, bet on Gordon.
4. The Randy Gregory rumors. There has been speculation among NFL teams that Nebraska defensive end Randy Gregory could have been popped for more than just marijuana at the combine, which would raise serious concerns about his future in the league before his career even begins. I’ve seen the drug report, via a league source, and Gregory tested positive solely for marijuana and not any other substances. Gregory is in the midst of a month-long visit marathon as a result of the failed test as teams seek to get a handle on his background. He’s been forthright, and teams know he failed two drug tests for marijuana while at Nebraska. It’s possible the whispers about other drugs are coming from interested teams intent on hurting his stock. How far he drops as a result is anyone’s guess. Said one NFL decision-maker: “Talent-wise, he’s one of the best players in the draft. I can’t see him falling out of the first round.”
5. Parker climbing? I think there’s a real chance that DeVante Parker won’t be there for the Vikings, his presumptive best fit, at 11th overall in the first round. The Bears (7th) are now a realistic landing spot for the former Louisville wide receiver. Beyond that, the Vikings aren’t as enamored with Teddy Bridgewater’s former teammate as everyone thinks they should be. If they were to pass on him, the furthest he would slide would be No. 14, to the Dolphins.
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