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znModeratorLet’s face it, this Ravens team is historically bad
Mike Prestonhttp://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-mike-preston-ravens-column-1116-20151115-column.html
Have you ever seen a Ravens team lose like this, and in so many creative ways?
The Ravens would have lost even if they had won.
In one of the most-bizarre endings in the modern day NFL, the Ravens lost to the Jacksonville Jaguars, 22-20, on Jason Myers’ 53-yard field goal with no time on the clock.
If there was any hope for the Ravens this season, it sailed through the uprights with Myers’ field goal. If there was any optimism about a turnaround, it disappeared into the cool evening air at M&T Bank Stadium.
Enough is enough.
Good teams don’t lose to Oakland, Cleveland and Jacksonville in the same season, with two of those losses coming at home. Possible long-shot contenders don’t struggle and then lose to teams like the Jaguars, which had lost 13 straight on the road before Sunday.
Ravens’ Flacco: ‘We’re not good enough’
“We’re just not the type of team that’s finding ways to win right now,” said Ravens QB Joe Flacco after his team’s last-second, 22-20 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars. (Kevin Richardson/Baltimore Sun video)
A loser’s mentality is starting to set in with this team because they would have been happy barely beating Jacksonville. Playoffs? Are you kidding me?Last week, Ravens cornerback Jimmy Smith was talking about the Ravens making history by winning eight straight and becoming the first team to start 2-6 and earn a playoff bid.
Well, the Ravens are on course to make history. While celebrating the 20th season in Baltimore they might be the worst in team history. There are no more excuses, not after Sunday.
I don’t want to hear about injuries or the officials. I don’t care if the Ravens haven’t given up or how they’ve been in every game until the final minutes. The Ravens find ways to lose, and if they don’t then they create new ones.
Jimmy Smith on the team’s missed opportunities
“We could have played better and that could have made a difference in the game,” cornerback Jimmy Smith said after the team’s 22-20 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars. (Kevin Richardson/Baltimore Sun video)
They had two weeks to prepare for Jacksonville (3-6) and came up with another losing, embarrassing effort. You can forgive outside linebacker Elvis Dumervil for his face mask of quarterback Blake Bortles on the next-to-last play of the game, which set up Myers’ game-winning field goal.That’s understandable, because it was a hustle play. But while Dumervil was playing until the final whistle, some of his teammates on the field were celebrating. If Dumervil had some help, maybe he wouldn’t have had to grab the face mask. If he had some help, maybe someone else would have gotten pressure.
Even more disturbing was that only several weeks earlier Ravens defensive players didn’t finish off Arizona Cardinals running back Chris Johnson, and he ended up making a big run.
Winning teams take care of business.
Takeaway drought ends, but defense can’t keep up with offense’s giveaways
Takeaway drought ends, but defense can’t keep up with offense’s giveaways
“We all thought the game was over, but we have to finish better,” said Ravens outside linebacker Courtney Upshaw. “We kind of left Doom [Dumervil] out there alone. We can’t stop like that. We have to finish the game.”You’d figure that the Ravens learned from some of their mistakes earlier this season, but not this bunch. They had a lot of penalties again (nine for 121 yards). They had four turnovers, three of those from quarterback Joe Flacco, who is becoming Mr. Turnover this season.
And after eight years in the league, Flacco still has problems securing the ball and throwing with accuracy. He often throws high, leaving his receivers vulnerable. If there are any questions, go ask Kamar Aiken.
If that isn’t enough, the Ravens secondary continues to struggle, and if they had played against a strong-armed quarterback Sunday they would have given up more than 300 yards and four touchdown passes.
Ravens suffer brutal 22-20 loss on 53-yard field goal with no time left
Ravens suffer brutal 22-20 loss on 53-yard field goal with no time left
Very little has changed since the season opener. They still can’t find a consistent punt returner and they lack discipline. They don’t have enough playmakers and the killer instinct is gone.How many times did the Ravens run pass patterns two or three yards short of the first-down marker Sunday? On a third-and-9 from the Jaguars’ 47 with two minutes left in the game, the Ravens threw a 4-yard pass to running back Buck Allen, and then punted.
If they had gotten the first down the game was over, because Jacksonville had no timeouts remaining. At 2-6, what did the Ravens have to lose? Instead, Jacksonville got the ball at their own 20 with 1:06 left against one of the worst pass defenses in the league.
That’s a loser’s mentality. Regardless of winning or losing, it’s starting to set in. Bad teams like Jacksonville don’t get extra opportunities.
“You have to get that first down, but obviously you want to keep the clock running and leave them as little time as possible,” Flacco said. “That’s always a debate.”
It’s really not open to discussion.
“We’re just not the type of team that’s finding ways to win right now,” Flacco said. “At the end of the day, we’re not good enough. It shows up in your record.”
It really showed up against the Jaguars, a league doormat for years. In Bortles, Jacksonville has a quarterback who stares down receivers and often doesn’t give them a chance to make plays in the end zone. When he did throw nice passes, his receivers dropped them.
Jacksonville has a secondary that is worse than the Ravens’, a group of misfits who apparently haven’t met a tight end they can cover. At one point Sunday, a Jacksonville assistant coach was screaming from the press box at cornerback Davon House, who had failed to cover receiver Jeremy Butler.
And yet Jacksonville, which had just 258 yards of total offense compared to 397 for the Ravens, won. If the Ravens had been victorious, they had a favorable schedule coming up with the St. Louis Rams next week followed by the Cleveland Browns on Monday night football.
Both of those teams lost Sunday, but who cares at this point? I’ve seen enough. The Ravens lost to Jacksonville. At this point of the season we’re often looking to see if the Ravens have gotten better and if they can make a deep run into the playoffs.
Not this year. A winning season will be hard to obtain at this point.
znModeratorRavens seem near breaking point
Mike Preston
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-column-1117-20151121-column.html
This is when players question coaches and coaches question players. It’s the breaking point for the Ravens.
There are various stages for a team during an NFL season, and the Ravens are at their breaking point.
If they had beaten the Jacksonville Jaguars Sunday to win a second consecutive game, maybe that could have served as a turning point. But they are past that stage now.
In the 22-20 loss, there were signs of a team falling apart, including numerous penalties, a lack of discipline and poor coaching, all of which led to a very quiet and frustrated locker room after the game.
The Ravens have lost a lot of games this season, but this one was devastating because it came in the final seconds against one of the NFL’s perennial losers.
NFL admits officials erred in final seconds of Ravens’ loss to Jaguars
NFL admits officials erred in final seconds of Ravens’ loss to Jaguars
“It’s a tough loss, man. I’ve never lost one like this before,” said Ravens running back Justin Forsett, a former Jaguar.“It’s heartbreaking,” Ravens outside linebacker Elvis Dumervil said.
To a man, the Ravens said they would bounce back and play hard like they’ve done every game this season, but these types of losses don’t just hurt. They eat at your soul and fester for a while. Some teams recover, but a lot don’t, especially when they fall out of playoff contention.
Will the Ravens become the 2015 version of the Cleveland Browns, a team that folds early every season? Or have they hit the proverbial rock bottom, which means the only way to go is up?
“That’s one thing I’m not worried about. Throughout this whole year, the adversity we’ve faced, we’ve always come to work and practiced harder than any other team I’ve played with,” Forsett said. “The guys are involved in trying to grow each week. We’re going to stay together; we’re going to fight. We’re Ravens. We’re going to be relentless, and we’re going to go out every game and prepare to win.”
Five up, five down after the Ravens’ 22-20 loss to Jacksonville
Five up, five down after the Ravens’ 22-20 loss to Jacksonville
That sounds good in theory, but the Ravens are struggling for answers and not finding any. With every loss there is more doubt about the schemes and the players, as well as the coaches. You can sense there is frustration about the offense.When some players are asked about the offense now, you are getting answers like: “I don’t call plays, I just do my job,” or “those types of decisions are above my pay grade.”
Really. That’s a bad sign.
So was the Ravens’ decision to throw a 4-yard pass into the right flat to running back Buck Allen with two minutes left in the game instead of trying to get nine yards for a first down that would have sealed the victory.
That is a loser’s mentality. It was so unlike Ravens coach John Harbaugh, who always stays in attack mode. It was a sign of panic, of a team in desperation.
Mike Preston grades the Ravens in their loss to the Jaguars
Mike Preston grades the Ravens in their loss to the Jaguars
Against Arizona a couple of weeks ago, we saw an offense that lacked direction in the final two minutes against the Cardinals. And Sunday, we saw a defense that started to celebrate one play too early.You have to question some coaching at this point. Why does offensive coordinator Marc Trestman continue to run pass plays where the receiver consistently comes up four-to-five yards short of the first down marker?
Are the Ravens so desperate on defense now that they need to play untested linebacker Arthur Brown and try cornerback Lardarius Webb at safety? Or are they making plans for the future?
Some of these things are puzzling, but not as baffling as the Ravens having nine men on the field to return a punt with about four minutes left in the game Sunday.
Let’s face it, this Ravens team is historically bad
Let’s face it, this Ravens team is historically bad
These things shouldn’t be happening in game No. 9. So, this is a time when coaches question players and players question coaches. It always happens with losing teams, especially after close losses.The Ravens have some leaders on this team, but not enough to fill the void left by injured players Steve Smith Sr. and Terrell Suggs. Maybe Smith would have told fullback Kyle Juszczyk to stay in bounds after his catch late in the game, or maybe Suggs would have told his teammates to keep hustling until the final whistle.
The NFL acknowledged Monday that officials blew the call on the play before the field goal because the Jaguars weren’t set. They should have been penalized, which would have resulted in a 10-second runoff and ended the game.
But those things happen to losing teams. Good teams make plays and don’t allow themselves to be put in that position at the end of games against bad teams like Jacksonville. Harbaugh has done a good job of getting his team mentally ready to play every week, but that was to be expected as long as the Ravens could possibly make the playoffs.
Jeremy Ross’ ball security issues forcing Ravens to make decision
Jeremy Ross’ ball security issues forcing Ravens to make decision
But those dreams faded a lot Sunday. When that goal is gone, sometimes veteran players stop playing hard and assistant coaches don’t put as much into the game plan.This team has always had a strong work ethic, going back to the days of coach Ted Marchibroda from 1996 to 1998, but those teams had a breaking point, too.
This is uncharted territory for Harbaugh, who is in his eighth season as Ravens coach. He better get them redirected soon, because a lot of teams don’t survive their breaking point.
They just break.
znModeratorThe Martz interview is very interesting, very good. I think a “must listen.”
—
from off the net
Merlin
as always I enjoy hearing what he has to say and this most recent stream was no different. One thing he mentioned that I felt was noteworthy was that he was not a fan of having the QB making protection calls and checking to other plays because he wants to make things as simple as possible for him to focus on getting the ball to the open receiver quickly with accuracy. Of course that really got me thinking of how the Rams are currently doing things and whether that type of approach might be something that could help them.
Some other stuff I enjoyed was him mentioning how they blindfolded Kitna and had him throw a route with 8/10 completions in practice simply to press home the point of timing and the WR being where they need to be. The attention to detail he discussed on route running, the receiver being exactly where he had to be at exactly the right moment is something that I think this offense is lacking.
znModeratorON FOLES
no ability to make throws off balance.
Foles arm limitations become very apparent when he throws under duress.
Tendency to let too much air get under intermediate throws.
Foles isn’t leaving throws on the field so much…he just is not executing on the challenged throws.
BRIGHT SIDE…THE DTs
Donald best initial movement of any NFL DT.
Fairley had by far his best game of the season. Flashed throughout, looked markedly quicker.
znModeratorTeam makes multiple moves to fill out roster
Joe Lyons
Another busy day in Earth City as the Rams made a number of roster moves and may have more in the works as they prepare for Sunday’s noon game in Baltimore against the Ravens.
After moving rookie offensive linemen Jamon Brown (lower-leg fracture) and Darrell Williams (dislocated wrist) on season-ending IR and promoting rookie Isaiah Battle from the practice squad, the team signed former Hazelwood Central product Brian Folkerts, a guard/center, off the San Francisco practice squad.
Battle, a 6-foot-7, 290-pound rookie out of Clemson, was selected by the Rams in the fifth round of the supplemental draft last July.
Folkerts, 25, is a third-year pro out of Washburn (Kan.) University.
The Rams also claimed center Eric Kush, another center/guard, off waivers. A third-year pro, he was released on Monday by the Houston Texans.
To fill a spot on the 53-man roster, the Rams released defensive tackle Doug Worthington, who may return as a practice squad player after clearing waivers.
In a pair of practice squad moves made Tuesday, the Rams released defensive end Gerald Rivers and signed guard David Arkin, a third-year pro from Missouri State.
znModeratorYeah I know.
Sigh.
.
znModeratorYou know Zack I don’t know what to make of any of this.
Personally? I am reserving judgement for a few games to see what’s going on.
In the meanwhile, my half-formed theory is that without Quinn and Long, the DEs were contained, and when that happens, the Rams defense isn’t as good, and when THAT happens, there is more pressure on the offense, and when THAT happens, the recent post-GB game Foles just plain self-destructs.
But we’ll see.
…
znModeratorThis article just repeats the press conferences from 11/17 so I put it here.
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Practice Report 11/17: Keenum’s First Session
By Myles Simmons
The Rams will have a different look under center when they play the Ravens in Baltimore this weekend, as Case Keenum takes over at starting quarterback. And after Tuesday’s practice — his first as QB 1 — it was clear how much Keenum relishes his new opportunity.
“I’m excited for my chance, I really am,” Keenum said. “I’m excited to go out there and compete again. You don’t get many chances to play in this league. I definitely count it as a blessing, and to get a second chance to come out and compete is incredible.”
Having been with St. Louis for much of last season, Keenum had plenty of familiarity with offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti prior to the trade that brought him back from Houston in March. That’s helped him this season in gaining comfort in the offense, even as things have changed within it.
“Cig and I spent a lot of time last year together — being the third guy, the practice squad guy for the last half of the season — just talking ball,” Keenum said. “I think as a quarterback, you want to be on the same page as your coordinator, see the defense with the same set of eyes. And I think we do.”
Because of that, head coach Jeff Fisher said the Rams do not have to pare down much with the playbook in order to get Keenum ready for Sunday. They will, however, make some adjustments based on what Keenum really likes.
“We made some minor adjustments in the plan just because there’s some things that he sees and sees a little differently than Nick [Foles] and [that] they prefer,” Fisher said. “It’s all good. All it does is, hopefully, translates into first downs.”
While Fisher has said the Rams may take advantage of Keenum’s mobility, the quarterback conceded he’d rather throw the ball than just run it himself all the time.
“I try to find the open guy and get the ball out of my hands and into the fast guys’ hands — that tends to work better, when I’m not holding it and they’ve got it in their hands,” Keenum said. “You know the talent we have in this locker room — you’ve seen it every Sunday. That’s my job.”
“I think that Case has shown that he can extend plays — scramble around, extend plays and make throws down the field,” Fisher said. “So, yeah, there are some things that we can do a little bit differently. But, it all starts with the run game and our ability to protect him.”
And when Keenum does throw it, he’ll have to be on the same page as his receivers. Getting the timing down between a new quarterback and pass catchers can be tough in the middle of the season, but Keenum does have experiences with his teammates to draw upon.
“I got a lot of reps with these guys during the preseason,” Keenum said. “They rotated receivers in and out, so I’ve seen every practice rep and everything that’s happened around here the whole time.”
“I think it always takes time — chemistry always takes time,” Keenum added. “That’s why we practice and go out there and play. The more you play and practice, the more experience you’ll get and that’s priceless.”
While he hasn’t started a regular-season game for the Rams, Keenum has gone against the Ravens. He started the Texans’ Week 15 contest against Baltimore last year, helping lead Houston to a 25-13 victory.
“It helps and it doesn’t,” Keenum said. “It’s previous years. It’s a new team, it’s a new opponent. There’s good and bad things to that.”
As a backup, Keenum said he’s done his best to prepare each week as if he would get in the game. It’s the way it must be done, as the No. 2 quarterback is always one play away from becoming No. 1. But Keenum admitted this week is a little different.
“You may dot a few more ‘I’s or cross a few more ‘T’s when you’re thinking about the plan,” Keenum said. “I try to prepare and be the most mentally ready that I can be every time I step on the practice field. Now, instead of sitting back there visualizing it and doing fake reps on air, I get the real reps, which is a lot better.”
Keenum said he felt a bevy of emotions after receiving the news he’d be starting from Fisher on Monday. On one hand, he was glad to get his shot. But on the other, Foles has become a close friend.
“We’ve been fighting hard to play the best that our position can play, and I have the utmost respect for Nick,” Keenum said. “That’s the first person I talked to after coach Fisher told us. We have a great relationship and I have his back no matter what.”
The same can be said from Foles’ perspective, as he reiterated how close the two have become and his team-first mentality on Tuesday.
“I love Case to death,” Foles said. “He’s one of my favorite people in the world, so I’m going to be right there to support him every step of the way and help him in any way possible.”
“I care a lot about my teammates,” Foles added, “so I’m going to do everything I can to prepare this week to help Case and help my teammates to get a win this week.”
The shift will be an adjustment for those around the quarterback as well, including running back Todd Gurley.
“It’s definitely a change,” Gurley said. “It kind of just popped up on us, but it’s something that we’ve dealt with in the past — whether it’s vets or me from changing quarterbacks in college.
“We believe in Case,” Gurley continued. “He’s a good quarterback, so we’ll see how that goes.”
With his teammates behind him, Keenum is looking forward to taking the next step in his NFL journey.
“I’ve been on a lot of sides of the quarterback position in this business,” Keenum said. “I’ve been named the starter after a guy gets injured or whatever it is. I’ve been a backup for a while, been replaced as a starter. I’ve been a No. 4 on one team and then started the next week with another team.”
“I’ve kind of been through it all,” Keenum continued. “You have to be ready when you get a chance, and I’m ready.”
ROSTER MOVES
Aside from the switch at quarterback, the Rams made a few roster moves to bolster the depth of their offensive line.
As Fisher previously announced would be the case, rookies Jamon Brown and Darrell Williams were placed on injured reserve on Tuesday. Isaiah Battle was also promoted from the practice squad to the active roster.
The Rams added two additional offensive linemen to the active roster as well. The first, Brian Folkerts is a St. Louis-area native and was signed off the 49ers’ practice squad. The second, Eric Kush, was claimed off waivers from Houston.
“[Folkerts] was really excited to come here and go down the street and live with mom and dad, I guess. So, that worked out good for us,” Fisher said. “Then, yesterday afternoon, the Texans waived Eric Kush. Eric’s got some center ability, some great feet. So, we claimed him today off the waiver wire. So, that was good and we’re moving people around.”
To make room on the 53-man roster, St. Louis waived defensive tackle Doug Worthington.
On the practice squad, the Rams released defensive end Gerald Rivers and added guard David Arkin.
Fisher said more moves may be coming as the week continues.
znModeratorThe Martz interview is very interesting, very good. I think a “must listen.”
znModeratorBalzer says, this roster bonus is not guaranteed. Who is right? We can only wait and see. imo
Yeah I just wrote about this in another thread without seeing this first.
Maybe interesting, maybe Balzer’s wrong.
znModeratorEverything is guaranteed, except the two highlighted boxes. Foles is here next year unless he is traded. imo
Intriguingly, Balzer said the roster bonus in 2016 is not guaranteed.
I know over.the.cap says it IS guaranteed.
Balzer could be wrong in this case of course but he kind of is a cap guy, or has been.
Meanwhile JT repeats that it IS. So maybe non-issue.
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/jt-chat-1117/
Foles has a $6 million roster bonus due next March that already is guaranteed. in addition, $2 million worth of unamortized signing bonus would count against the cap if he’s cut. So it sure doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.
znModeratorInjuries force Rams to go (offensive) line dancing
Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — Lost in the midst of coach Jeff Fisher’s announcement that the St. Louis Rams are making a change at quarterback was the news that his team lost not one, but two, offensive linemen to injury for the rest of the season — on the same play.
With 4:14 to go in Sunday’s 37-13 loss to the Chicago Bears, quarterback Nick Foles threw an interception to Bears linebacker Willie Young. On the ensuing return, guard Jamon Brown suffered a fractured lower leg and tackle Darrell Williams went down with a dislocated wrist.
Brown had to be taken off on a cart. Williams played the final five snaps with the injured wrist. By Sunday night, it was clear that both required surgery and will have to go on season-ending injured reserve.
“Coincidentally, it happened on the same play, both injuries happened on the interception return,” Fisher said. “So [Williams will] be lost for the remainder of the season as well.”
That means the Rams will have to do some major shuffling on the offensive line this week. Brown and Williams will head to injured reserve and Fisher acknowledged Monday that tackle Isaiah Battle will be promoted from the practice squad to take one spot.
“From a conditioning standpoint and a lower body strength and overall strength standpoint, he’s much further ahead than he was when he got here,” Fisher said. “He wasn’t in good shape when he got here for obvious reasons and so we had to get him in shape. He’s done a really good job in the weight room. He has a much better feel for what we’re doing. He’s got really long arms. He’s athletic. So, I spoke with him today. He’s a snap away from playing.”
The Rams will scour the free-agent market and, presumably, other practice squads to fill the other vacancy.
“We’re discussing stuff with our pro scouting department to see what our options are to get some depth in here and potentially some practice squad help,” Fisher said.
In more promising injury news, right tackle Robert Havenstein’s calf injury isn’t as bad as the Rams initially feared. Fisher said he’s considered day-to-day, but it’s uncertain what his status will be this week against Baltimore.
So while Battle and someone else will fill the two open roster spots, the Rams will have to do some shuffling on the offensive line. Fisher declined to offer specifics on how the Rams will line up but it’s safe to assume if Havenstein can’t play this week that rookie guards Andrew Donnal and Cody Wichmann would step in to the guard spots with left guard Garrett Reynolds moving over to right tackle.
If Havenstein can play, the Rams would be able to leave Reynolds at left guard and have to choose between Donnal and Wichmann for the right guard spot. Fisher said Demetrius Rhaney is viewed as the primary backup on the interior.
“Well, Andrew got to play last week,” Fisher said. “He got to start and played the whole game, so that’s valuable experience. Now, as we move forward, it looks like they’re both going to play. I mean, I’ve been pleased with Cody. Cody missed some time with the calf injury during camp, but since then, Coach [Paul] ‘Bou’s [Boudreau] getting him reps and he knows what to do — big, strong guy who can pull and can pass protect. So we’ll see.”
For an offensive line that entered the season with a litany of questions, the list has only gotten longer.[
znModeratorKeenum now front and center as Rams QB
Jim Thomas
Backup quarterbacks don’t do many interviews, so with a sense for the moment, Case Keenum spelled out his name — first and last — for the assemblage of reporters Tuesday at Rams Park.
“In case you were wondering,” he said, smiling.
And when backup quarterbacks do in fact get interviewed, the PR staff doesn’t hurriedly put up a team backdrop behind them. As of Monday, however, Keenum no longer is the backup quarterback. So yes, he got the full backdrop treatment for his media session following Tuesday’s practice.
Welcome to the backdrop, Case.
“Yeah, I made it,” Keenum said. “Is this where I stand?”
The Rams certainly hope Keenum knows where to stand Sunday in Baltimore. They need him to stand tall in the pocket — all 6-1 of him. And when that’s impossible, they hope he can use his legs to maneuver out of trouble and help rescue their 31st-ranked offense and 32nd-ranked passing game.
“I’m ready,” Keenum said. “I’ve been prepared, and that’s what I do every week is I get ready to play. I’m excited for my chance. I really am. I’m excited to go out there and compete again.
“You don’t get many chances to play in this league. I definitely count it as a blessing, and to have a second chance to come out and compete is incredible.”
Actually, it’s more than a second chance. If the former University of Houston Cougar were a cat, he’d be well on his way to nine lives. bouncing on and off the rosters — both 53-man and practice squad — of the Houston Texans and Rams since entering the league in 2012. He has been cut, signed, traded, promoted, demoted.
“I’ve been on a lot of sides of the quarterback position in this business,” Keenum said. “I’ve been named the starter after a guy that gets injured. Been a backup now for while. Been replaced as a starter.
“I’ve been a No. 4 guy on one team, and then starting the next week for another team. So I’ve kinda been through it all.”
So he can empathize with what Nick Foles, the man he has replaced in the starting lineup, is going through.
“Nick’s one of my best friends,” Keenum said. “I have the utmost respect for Nick. That’s the first person I talked to after Coach Fisher told us (about the QB switch). We have a great relationship and I have his back no matter what.
“Nobody cares more about this team, loves the guys on this team, respects the guys on this team more. … Just one of the best guys I know.”
As an example, Keenum said Foles gave the squad an impassioned speech at the team meeting Saturday night on the eve of the Chicago game.
“It moved me,” Keenum said. “One of the best I ever heard pregame. Everybody in this locker room knows how much he cares about this team, and nobody has a doubt in him as a player or a person.”
But it’s the Keenum show now. Whether the Rams make something of this season or fall short of the playoffs for the 11th consecutive season, depends largely on whether he can provide a spark to the offense.
It’s a tall task considering Keenum had yet to take even a regular-season practice snap with the starting offense — not one — until this week. That’s in nearly 1½ seasons with the Rams. In theory, he knows the playbook as well as anyone at Rams Park. Now he must apply that knowledge in “real life” if you will.
“I try to visualize when I’m not playing,” Keenum said. “I try to prepare like I am (playing). My routine is quite similar. I try to prepare and be the most mentally ready that I can be every time I step on the practice field.
“Now, instead of sitting back there visualizing it, doing fake reps on air, I get the real reps. Which is a whole lot better than sitting back there ‘on air’ doing that.”
Keenum already has a good rapport with offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti, dating back to last season.
“We talked a lot of ball,” Keenum said. “Not even our offense last year; just kind of ball in general. So kinda getting on the same page with him. We think a lot alike.”
They spent a lot of time working together last year before games — just Cignetti and Keenum out on the field early working some individual stuff on game days. When a quarterback can see the game plan and see the opposing defense through the coordinator’s eyes, that’s a good first step.
“What we liked about Case is the game’s not too fast for him,” Cignetti said during camp. “He processes information very well. Very smart. He’s a rhythmic passer. Very accurate.”
Fisher liked what he saw of Keenum so much that he traded a seventh-rounder to Houston to get him back last March after the Texans had signed him off the Rams’ practice squad last December.
“What we saw in Case here on the practice field was special,” Fisher said. “His instincts, his mobility, his arm strength, his anticipation. Mind you, it was just practice, it was running scout team.
“When he got to go two-minute against the defense, it was there. And he’s won games. He’s proven it. He’s won games in Houston with a team that had significant injuries around him, and found ways to win games.
“So we’re gonna trust his mobility, and his ability to extend plays and things, and just give us an offensive spark that we need.”
Part of the challenge is establishing as much chemistry and rapport with the starting receivers as possible in a compressed time frame. Keenum hasn’t thrown much to the Rams top receivers since training camp.
“I’ve seen Case ball before,” tight end Jared Cook said. “He brings a pretty good change-up into the lineup. Runs a little bit. Different trajectory on the ball, the way it comes out. He’s a little bit shorter than Nick. So we’ll see.”[
znModeratorIt looks to me like 2014 is the exception or outlier , Chip Kelly’s offense before the rest of the NFL caught. Foles never was that guy. imo
I think you’re thinking of 2013.
2014 is more the guy I would expect if he rights himself.
I agree that 2013 is the outlier.
znModeratorMod moment.
Some of these belong more in the thread about Foles so I moved em.
znModeratorMany people who were against the trade said there were flaws with Foles’ game, but there was nothing that could have predicted this complete futility.
Foles as a rookie for Reid. Why is he worse now?
It would be interesting to find out how much shotgun he played in for Reid. I believe he was all shotgun in college and certainly was all shotgun with Kelly.
So I think it’s telling that Fisher in effect says he still has to learn the offense.
I don’t think he means the playbook. I think he means executing the offense in real time with real bullets while dropping back from center.
A lot of that was new to him. To me he looked unconfident and overwhelmed. If he gets back to his Philly 2014 level he will be of course better than he was in his last 5 games. But that again may be rhythm, feeling comfortable, executing etc. while dropping back from center. ‘
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znModeratorfrom nfl.com
Overview
Keenum has been one of the most highly productive quarterbacks in college football history, setting the record for overall pass yardage in a career. If numbers were pure projections to the next level, Keenum would be the undisputed top pick. Unfortunately for him, his height might limit him as he moves to the next level. It’s obvious that Keenum is an accurate and prolific passer working from inside the pocket. How that production translates to the NFL is the big question.
Analysis
Strengths Keenum had an ungodly amount of production while at Houston. He is a good, mechanical thrower who makes quick decisions within the scheme. He understands how to read defenses and pick his spots in zones. He is an accurate thrower who puts good touch on his throws to lead his receivers. He is good to extend the play and work outside the pocket.
Weaknesses Keenum is an undersized prospect, which hurts his value. Like Russell Wilson, he will need to show he can throw effectively from the pocket. He also could be considered the product of an effective, high-octane collegiate spread offense
znModeratorfrom off the net
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Blue and Gold
Here are Foles’s first 4 games
70/111 63.1% 815 yards 5 TDs 1 INT 96.5 rating
Here are his last 5 games
75/145 51.7 % 863 yards 2 TDs 5 INT 60.2
What has perplexed me is who is the real Foles? Now, the drops were WORSE in the first 4 games than they have been the last 5 at least going by memory, the Kendricks drop stands out.
Maybe some are sure that the last 5 games is the “real” Foles . . . but the first 4 were more like he was in Philly
What happened?
znModeratorRams turn to Case Keenum to provide a spark, but it might not last long
Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — St. Louis Rams coach Jeff Fisher named Case Keenum his new starting quarterback on Monday evening, sending Nick Foles to the bench just nine games into his tenure with the team.
Some takeaways from Fisher’s decision and what it means for the Rams at quarterback, in both the short and long term:
1. With his team at 4-5 and flailing in the NFC playoff chase, Fisher made the right move here. Let’s not get it confused: Foles wasn’t the only problem for the Rams’ offense. They need more production from the offensive line and all of their pass-catchers. But, as Fisher put it, this is an offense sorely in need of some sort of a spark. The Rams are 31st in the NFL in yards per game and last in passing yards per game. Foles simply didn’t look comfortable in the pocket and hadn’t showed signs of improving in the past four or five weeks.
2. Keenum probably isn’t a major upgrade, let alone a panacea for the offense. So what does he bring to the table that Foles doesn’t? Fisher mentioned Keenum’s mobility and ability to extend plays with his legs multiple times at Monday’s news conference. Foles rarely makes plays outside of the pocket and part of his lack of comfort in the pocket stemmed from the amount of pressure the offensive line has allowed. The offensive line was already struggling, and now has lost guard Jamon Brown and tackle Darrell Williams for the season. Having a quarterback who is more willing to stay in the pocket when pressure arrives and is capable of escaping that pressure to make plays when he leaves the pocket is probably a good idea, given the state of the offensive line.
3. Just because Keenum is the starter now doesn’t mean he will be permanently, or even for the rest of the season. When Austin Davis replaced an injured Shaun Hill last year, he went on to start eight games. Davis went 3-5 in those starts before the job went back to Hill. But Davis held the job that long because he played well in his first few starts. Davis’ fearless, frenetic style worked for a few weeks before he played better defenses with a better idea of how to stop him. In hindsight, the Rams probably should have kept closer tabs on Davis and gone back to Hill before the spark fizzled. That probably won’t happen again. Fisher said Monday that Keenum won’t have a short leash, but he also said that “Nick also understands that he eventually will be under center for us again.” My expectation is that Keenum will get a chance to give the Rams the spark Fisher seeks and his hook won’t come out for three or four weeks. But if Keenum struggles or is struggling after getting a few opportunities, Fisher will go back to Foles before Keenum gets the same number of starts Davis did in 2014.
4. The Rams liked Keenum enough that they traded a 2016 draft pick to reacquire him from the Houston Texans after the Texans signed him from the St. Louis practice squad late last season. Keenum impressed the Rams with his work ethic and mobility on the practice field and then earned even more respect for winning two games for Houston at the end of the year. Keenum threw for 435 yards with two touchdowns and two interceptions in those two victories, one of which came against the Rams’ opponent this week, the Baltimore Ravens.
5. This quarterback change should serve as yet another reminder that the Rams still don’t have their long-term quarterback solution on the roster. Yes, they signed Foles to an extension before he ever played a snap for them, but the Rams structured his deal so they can get out of it relatively easily without much of a cap hit after next year. Keenum will get a chance to state his case, but his previous 10 starts don’t offer much hope he can be more than a spot starter. Third-round rookie Sean Mannion hasn’t had many reps in practice as the team’s third quarterback and he doesn’t appear to be close to competing for the backup job yet, not to mention the starting job. The Rams’ decision to pass on quarterbacks repeatedly in the draft, especially when they had extra picks from their 2012 trade with Washington, has left them with a number of other teams in quarterback purgatory. Until that gets fixed with someone capable of playing even average football on a weekly basis, it’s going to be hard for the Rams to have the playoff breakthrough they seek.
znModeratorRapoport: Keenum named starting QB in St. Louis
NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reports St. Louis Rams quarterback Nick Foles has been officially benched, and Case Keenum will be the Rams’ new starting quarterback.
znModeratorhow exactly does keenum alleviate any of those problems fisher just mentioned?
my guess is fisher thinks that to take a step forward the rams need to take a step back first? let foles sit back and get evaluate?
he pretty much says that foles will be the starter again at some point which to me seems to mean that he doesn’t think keenum is the answer.
What I got out of what Fisher said is that Foles doesn’t get/know the offense yet.
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does that mean keenum does? what advantage does starting keenum offer if he doesn’t think keenum is the long-term starter? cuz he says foles will be back at some point or is that just lip service?
Keenum has taken more snaps under center in the pros, yeah. He also adds some mobility.
znModeratorfrom off the net
—CoachO
I am shocked that Fisher made the move. Not that I don’t think it needed to be made.
As far as Keenum….. He’s gonna make his share of mistakes as well. He is in the same mold as Austin Davis. He’s gonna force some throws into tight windows and I fear we may see more turnovers.
But what he will also provide is more mobility and a better idea of where to go with the ball.
IMO the biggest negative with Foles was his holding onto the ball way too long. I lost count just in yesterday’s game the number of sideline outs he tried to force across the hash marks. And every single one of them came out late. More often than not Foles simply throws the ball in an area and hopes for the best. I’ve yet to see him (with any consistency) hit receivers in stride or put the ball in a consistent place where the onus isn’t on the receiver to make a circus catch. Even on routine routes. I’ve been consistently voicing my concerns about him since training camp. And all the things I saw up close and personal that concerned me in training camp and he’s still doing the same things. Slow thru his reads and a tendency to become very jittery when his first read isn’t available. Add to it the absence of even looking to the middle of the field.
For me it’s all about his lack of command in this offense. Even on balls that end up as competitions his accuracy just isn’t there. How many throws to Quick and Welker were so far off target that they couldn’t even get a hand on it? Keenum will be MUCH BETTER in that area as well.
I was encouraged yesterday they actually tried to incorporate some slants and dig routes from Quick. Just Foles confirmed my suspicions. He can’t make those throws with any accuracy.
If they stick with those concepts Keenum will complete them more than not.
In terms of the play-action? The conventional train of thought is to utilize a play action passing attack off of the success of the running game. But as Minnesota showed last week, if they continue to blitz it eliminates the ability to play action. Lost count of the number of times Foles would follow thru with his play action fake and immediately be faced with pressure coming from the blitz.
Kinda concerning that a fourth year QB can’t see it coming pre snap and make the necessary adjustments.
This is the pure definition of a red-shirt year for Mannion. Mannion for all intents and purposes hasn’t taken a meaningful rep in practice since training camp. Foles has gotten the lion’s share of reps every week with the game plan. Keenum takes nearly all of the “scout team” reps to stay sharp. That laaves Mannion on the outside looking in. So unless and until they move him up on the depth chart, he’s unlikely to be given any consideration at all. But IMO. He should come into 2016 with a legitimate chance to compete for the job. It’s no coincidence in my mind that Foles was given a two year deal. Sean Mannion could very well be the guy moving forward.
Austin Davis’ issues weren’t experience. They were physical. He just didn’t have an NFL caliber arm. He can’t make the throws needed to be consistent. I’m not missing the pick 6’s from his game. Or the badly underthrown desperation throws downfield that were late.
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znModeratorhow exactly does keenum alleviate any of those problems fisher just mentioned?
my guess is fisher thinks that to take a step forward the rams need to take a step back first? let foles sit back and get evaluate?
he pretty much says that foles will be the starter again at some point which to me seems to mean that he doesn’t think keenum is the answer.
What I got out of what Fisher said is that Foles doesn’t get/know the offense yet.
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znModeratorhe just seems really late on the throws.
Fisher had interesting comments on all that:
Nick also understands that he eventually will be under center for us again.
But, he just needs to get more experience under his belt in this offense.
There were some routes that weren’t correctly run. There were some protection issues where he had pressure in his face. There were some opportunities where we had some people open when the ball should’ve been delivered on time and the ball should’ve been completed. Again, it’s not just yesterday. It’s over the last few weeks.
There was a few times when, had we been a little more patient and gone through the progression, the ball would’ve gone to the correct place and we may have extended some drives.
znModeratorPeople are disliking Fisher right now. Okay, that makes sense, sure. But this press conference is about as good as it gets at handling this situation.
Of course. They also have to win. So we;ll see on the carry through.
But just today, this one event, where he addresses the situation…IMO …you can’t ask for it to be any better.
znModeratorIan Rapoport @RapSheet
Based on initial tests, #Eagles QB Sam Bradford expected to miss this Sunday & potentially Thursday, I’m told. Expect Mark Sanchez to start.znModeratorGordo: Rams’ giant step backward difficult to explain
Jeff GordonFor the first 2 minutes 59 seconds of clock time Sunday, the Rams looked playoff-ready.
They seemed prepared to beat the Chicago Bears, set aside last Sunday’s painful overtime loss at Minnesota, move back over .500 and climb into the NFC postseason picture.
“Everybody had an agreement that this was the start of the season, this was our chance to put our stamp on the season,” tight end Jared Cook said. “We’re at the halfway mark and it’s time to become a new team, it’s time to become a better team.”
They appeared energized by the large Edward Jones Dome turnout (58,653 tickets distributed, many to visiting Sons of Ditka). The stage seemed set for a huge victory, especially after the Rams raced to a quick 7-0 lead with a crisp first drive.
Instead, they reverted back to the same old Rams during a crushing 37-13 loss.
“We got outplayed, got outcoached,” Rams coach Jeff Fisher said. “We didn’t play well.”
That summed it up nicely in 10 words or less. This loss offered nightmarish flashbacks to Fisher’s previous seasons here. Errant passes, dropped passes, drive-killing offensive penalties and massive defensive breakdowns led the Rams down a familiar trail.
“It hurt,” defensive tackle Michael Brockers said. “Nobody likes to lose, especially this way and at home. It hurts.”
The game started with such promise. Quarterback Nick Foles opened the first series by rolling out on a misdirection passing play and hitting Cook, who rambled 29 yards.
One play later, running back Todd Gurley caught a pass from Foles and hurdled a defender on a spectacular 31-yard play. Then Gurley plowed through the Bears for 14 yards on two runs to advance the ball to the Chicago 6.
One player later, Gurley crashed into the end zone and the Rams led. Finally their offensive play script produced early results in a game.
“We came out, first drive, went down the field,” Cook said. “After that, it was just downhill, man. I don’t know. We’ve got to figure it out.”
Yes, they do. Gurley is a great running back, but defenses are sitting on him. He gained just 45 yards on 12 carries Sunday. And once the Rams fell behind the Bears by multiple scores, they had to abandon the run.
Foles was just awful, sailing many of this throws beyond his targets as if the footballs were filled with helium. He short-armed some other throws while restless Rams fans booed. He finished 17 for 36 for 200 yards, no touchdowns and one interception.
“I feel good,” Foles insisted after the game. “I feel good dropping back, throwing, reading defenses — I feel good about it.”
That makes one person who feels good about it. What happened to the Nick Foles who posted a 115.8 passer rating against Seattle and a 126.9 rating at Arizona?
Can somebody get THAT guy out to Rams Park on Monday?
“He’s a confident, competitive person,” Fisher said. “He thought, with seven minutes to go in the game, we were going to put two drives together and score.”
Again, that makes one person who believed. Foles seemed totally out of sorts, often throwing late and without much conviction. Fisher waved off questions about a quarterback change during his postgame media sessions, but those questions won’t go away.
Off course, Foles wasn’t the only offensive problem. Running back Tre Mason fumbled the ball away on his first carry. Receiver Tavon Austin dropped a potential third-down conversion pass over the middle. The mistakes just kept coming.
Second-year left tackle Greg Robinson earned three costly holding penalties, including one that erased an Austin touchdown run. Robinson is well into the second year of his NFL career and remains mistake-prone.
If he were a sixth-round pick, that might be understandable. But Robinson went second overall in the 2014 draft and he hasn’t come close to living up to that standard.
The offensive line took another big injury hit when rookie right guard Jamon Brown suffered a broken lower leg while trying to thwart an interception return. Also, rookie right tackle Rob Havenstein suffered a calf muscle strain in the game.
With veteran guard Rodger Saffold done for the season after shoulder surgery, the front wall will have a makeshift look going forward. That could make a sputtering offense even more inconsistent.
Like many, Cook is baffled by that offensive failure.
“When we have a good defense like we’ve got, man, there should be no reason why we shouldn’t be able to put up at least 20 to 24 points per game to keep us in the game,” Cook said. “Most of the time we haven’t been able to do that.”
Until this week the Rams defense has held up pretty well despite that lack of offensive support. But Sunday it suffered the sort of major mishaps that doomed previous Fisher teams.
This game turned when Bears quarterback Jay Cutler countered a Rams blitz with a quick pass to tight end Zach Miller, who cut back and raced 87 yards for the game-tying touchdown play.
Later, a simple screen pass sucked in the Rams and led to an 83-yard TD bolt for running back Jeremy Langford.
“We’re a good tackling defense but for whatever reason today, that didn’t show up,” middle linebacker James Laurinaitis said.
So much for the notion of starting a new and better season.
“Everybody still believes that,” Cook said. “I’m not going to say it’s panic time, but it’s time to come and get this train rolling.”
znModeratorfrom off the net
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guinnessram
Chip: “No matter how well Sanchez plays, Sam is QB when healthy.”
As per Mort on today’s “NFL Insiders”, so it looks like our 4th rder is safe.
They said Bradford suffered a concussion and a left (non throwing) shoulder injury, the severity of both hasn’t been determined yet. Should know details as early as tomorrow.
FWIW, Kelley didn’t sound too concerned, but with injuries (especially shoulder) you just never know.
November 16, 2015 at 2:58 pm in reply to: A well coached team with good QB play is hard to beat (post-Bears game thread) #34221znModeratorI have seen people asking if Fisher is gone after this year. I say no.
Something could happen to change that but this entire year they approach everything as if they would have time. Injured RB, young OL, new coordinator, new qb. They never acted like this was it, the judgement year.
And in fact I just don’t think anyone can rule out them being better next year. And even better this year.
They lost this game because the D fell below its usual standard. That’s in part because the DEs are banged up.
They have won games before with the offense struggling. But the D has to show up.
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znModeratorRams once again fail to sustain drives in loss to Bears
Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — Looking back at three things to watch in the St. Louis Rams’ 37-13 loss to the Chicago Bears on Sunday:
1. Possession priority: The Bears’ formula when they’ve had success this season has been pretty simple: control the ball and the clock and keep the defense on the sideline. Entering Sunday’s game, Chicago was fourth in the NFL in time of possession. Offensive coordinator Adam Gase has installed a system that allows quarterback Jay Cutler to take care of the ball, make plays when the opportunity arises and keep the Bears offense on the field.
The Rams, meanwhile, entered Sunday’s game near the bottom of the league in time of possession and first downs. It figured to be a dangerous mix if the Rams couldn’t find ways to stay on the field offensively.
As it turned out, that’s exactly what happened. Gase called a nearly perfect game and had the Rams defense completely off balance with a mix of quick passes and power runs. When it was all said and done, the Bears had the ball for 34:22 to the Rams’ 25:38. Chicago also had 17 first downs to the Rams’ 12. While the Bears also hit a couple of big plays, consider those just a bonus to a game plan that was perfectly executed. Given the time of possession disparity, the result of the game should be no surprise.
2. Whither Welker: As expected, Welker was active and involved on third downs less than a week after signing with the Rams. Quarterback Nick Foles targeted Welker quickly though he overthrew him on his first target. All told, Welker played just 11 snaps, most of those coming on third down and was targeted six times. He finished with three catches for 32 yards with a long gain of 14 yards.
Moving forward, Welker figures to be more involved in the offense as he takes on more of the playbook.
3. Holding their water: In the previous three weeks before Sunday’s game, the Rams were flagged for offside penalties a whopping 12 times, including five against Cleveland three weeks ago and five more last week against Minnesota. Those flags have given opponents first downs, made getting another first down more manageable and many times altered field position in a significant way.
It was a point of emphasis during the week for those numbers to decrease and it was one of the rare times the Rams actually followed through on it. They picked up just one penalty for jumping offside and it didn’t happen when the Rams were on defense. Safety Rodney McLeod jumped on an extra point attempt but otherwise the Rams were able to get the issue corrected for at least one week. It was actually one of the few things the Rams did well in an embarrassing loss.
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