Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
znModeratorI also think that Fisher’s penchant for gambling on potential rather relying on proven production on O is an enormous and undeniable problem.
There are a lot of views on Fisher. You and I still see a lot of this differently. For example, I like Fisher’s willingness to develop potential in very athletic players. He also relies on proven production, which explains why the team has both Robinson, who can be a great one, and Havenstein, who is already a top ranked ROT in the league. Then of course, there’s also Donald. Guys he drafted for potential include, besides Robinson, Brockers, Jenkins, Quick, Trumaine “small school” Johnson, Tavon, Ogletree, and McDonald. Most of those are already producing. I think it paid off, assuming, as I do, that Robinson comes through. Either way, whoever coaches the Rams next year, Fisher or someone else, they have a very significant talent pool to work with. So yes, just a different view but, I do deny it’s a problem.
Always good to hear from you Trench. And good discussion. Keep em comin.
December 15, 2015 at 4:17 pm in reply to: Gurley v. Martin? (ie. the official "can the Rams beat the Bux" thread) #35682znModeratorBux playing well.
Defense ranked 11th, offense ranked 11th
znModeratorSam Bradford following Carson Palmer’s NFL path
PHILADELPHIA — He won the Heisman Trophy. He was the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft. He tore his anterior cruciate ligament twice.
He could be either Sam Bradford or Carson Palmer, the two men who will start at quarterback Sunday when the Philadelphia Eagles host the Arizona Cardinals.
Palmer, 35, won the Heisman for USC in 2002 and was the first pick in the 2003 NFL draft.
Bradford, 28, won the Heisman as a sophomore at Oklahoma in 2008 and was the first pick in the 2010 NFL draft.
After six years with the Cincinnati Bengals, Palmer asked to be traded. When the Bengals declined, Palmer said he would retire. He held out until the middle of the 2011 season, when the Bengals agreed to trade him to the Oakland Raiders.
After five years with the St. Louis Rams, Bradford was traded to the Eagles.
There is a lesson in here about time, and its role in allowing NFL quarterbacks to reach their full potential.
Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger. Palmer is a little bit different. Since he got to Arizona in 2013, his record as a starter is 27-8 with a passer rating of 94.4. It didn’t take him years in coach Bruce Arians’ offense.
But Palmer still put in the years.
“He’s played a ton of football,” Kelly said. “The wealth of experience that Carson brings to Bruce’s offense is kind of unparalleled. He’s the guy that’s pushing the whole offensive system right now.”
Palmer will turn 36 later this month. He has never won a playoff game. During eight seasons in Cincinnati and Oakland, his record as a starter was 54-67. The best years of his career have been in Arizona, after he turned 33 years old.
Kelly has previously compared trading for Bradford to the New Orleans Saints’ signing of Drew Brees. The former San Diego Chargers quarterback was available only because of an injury to his throwing shoulder. The Saints took a chance on Brees, who has gone 92-63 and won a Super Bowl.
Bradford’s resume looks more like Palmer’s. The challenge for Kelly and the Eagles is to make sure that Bradford can accelerate the second part of his career. That means staying in Philadelphia and growing in Kelly’s offense, not moving on to a third team.
That is Kelly’s plan.
“We’ve always wanted Sam here,” Kelly said. “We wouldn’t have traded for him if we thought he was going to be here for a year.”
Bradford has exactly three games (plus playoffs, if there are any) remaining on his contract. The Eagles and Bradford’s agent discussed a contract extension, but those talks ended at the start of the regular season.
Bradford went 4-4 as the Eagles’ starter in the first half of this season. He was leading in the Eagles’ Nov. 15 game against Miami when he was knocked out of the game with a concussion and separated left shoulder. The Eagles lost that game, as well as their next two with Mark Sanchez as their quarterback.
Bradford returned for the game against New England. He won his two starts since returning from the injury. Before each game, he addressed his teammates.
“I’ve seen Sam gain more confidence as the season’s gone along here,” Kelly said. “I think that’s just a natural maturation process.”
That takes time. The big question is how much time Bradford will have in Philadelphia.
December 15, 2015 at 3:38 pm in reply to: Stalter: Trumaine Johnson’s Play Gives Rams Much Needed Offseason Flexibility #35679znModeratorRams drafts, DBs, across 2 decades, 1995-2014
This represents a total of 37 players.
Hits in blue-bold. There are a total of 12 hits across that time. Of those, 6 are from 2012-14. (And that doesn’t count UDFAs like McCleod and Roberson).
YEAR ROUND PICK PLAYER
2014 2 41 Lamarcus Joyner
2014 4 110 Maurice Alexander
2014 6 188 E.J. Gaines
2014 7 241 C.B. Bryant
2013 3 71 T.J. McDonald
2013 5 149 Brandon McGee
2012 2 39 Janoris Jenkins
2012 3 65 Trumaine Johnson
2011 5 158 Jermale Hines
2011 7 216 Mikail Baker
2011 7 229 Jonathan Nelson
2010 3 65 Jerome Murphy
2010 7 211 Marquis Johnson
2009 3 66 Bradley Fletcher
2008 4 101 Justin King
2008 7 228 Chris Chamberlain
2007 3 84 Jonathan Wade
2006 1 15 Tye Hill
2005 2 50 Ronald Bartell
2005 3 66 O.J. Atogwe
2005 4 117 Jerome Carter
2004 5 158 Jason Shivers
2003 4 107 DeJuan Groce
2003 5 170 Shane Walton
2003 5 172 Kevin Garrett
2002 2 64 Travis Fisher
2001 1 20 Adam Archuleta
2001 5 145 Jerametrius Butler
2000 2 62 Jacoby Shepherd
2000 6 198 Matt Bowen
1999 2 41 Dre’ Bly
1999 3 68 Rich Coady
1997 2 40 Dexter McCleon
1997 5 158 Taje Allen
1995 5 140 Mike Scurlock
1995 7 214 Gerald McBurrows
1995 7 220 Herman O’Berry.
December 15, 2015 at 3:12 pm in reply to: 3 Rams are PFF's "best at their position" this week & more PFF stuff #35677znModeratorDET-STL GRADES: GURLEY‘S MONSTER SECOND HALF PROPELS RAMS
The top takeaways and highest-graded players from the Rams’ 21-14 win over the Lions:TREY CASSIDY
Here are the top takeaways and highest-graded players from the Rams’ 21-14 win over the Lions:
St Louis Rams
– Although the St Louis pass rush appeared to create pressure on almost every play against Detroit, it was basically Aaron Donald (+6.9) alone. The Rams racked up four sacks and three quarterback hits yesterday and Donald recorded all but one of those sacks and all three hits. In addition, he also had two quarterback hurries and five defensive stops, leading his team in both categories. The fact that his grade was a bit lower than in other weeks was mainly due to the fact that, surprisingly, he did not have as much success against the Detroit offensive line in the running game than when he was rushing the passer.– After missing the last two games, Trumaine Johnson (+4.5) came back in style against Detroit as he earned the second-highest grade of his career. While his interception return touchdown was undoubtedly the highlight of his afternoon, Johnson made several other good plays. He could have easily had another interception, but his pass defense against Eric Ebron in the fourth quarter was still impressive. He also flashed quickness and good closing speed when he stopped Theo Riddick coming out of the backfield on a swing pass for a two-yard gain. Johnson surrendered two receptions and 10 yards on five targets and allowed a passer rating of only 8.3.
– While he wasn’t impressive initially, running back Todd Gurley (+2.5) took over the game in the second half. The rookie running back was able to break off the long runs that we have been waiting for from him over the last few weeks. Four of Gurley’s 16 carries went for more than 15 yards and he gained a total of 110 yards on these runs, which represented 78.6% of his total for the day. Once he found the rhythm that he has been missing in the last few weeks, it was almost impossible for the first defender to tackle Gurley, who averaged 5.44 yards after contact. What might be the scariest for opponents is that Gurley was just as productive inside the tackles (7.9 yards per carry) as he was when he cut outside (10.6 yards per carry).
Top performers:
DT Aaron Donald (+6.9)
CB Trumaine Johnson (+5.2)
RB Todd Gurley (+2.5)
LG Garrett Reynolds (+2.0)
DT Nick Fairley (+1.6)December 15, 2015 at 3:08 pm in reply to: 3 Rams are PFF's "best at their position" this week & more PFF stuff #35676znModeratorTOP 8 LATE ROUND OR UNDRAFTED PLAYERS THIS SEASON
7. Matt Longacre, DE, St. Louis Rams, 74.2
Draft Position: UndraftedPFF’s second-highest graded edge defender in the preseason (+8.9), the Rams initially had cut Longacre—despite the strong showing—presumably due to their strong defensive line depth. Having dealt with recent injuries to Chris Long and Robert Quinn however, St. Louis brought Longacre up from the practice squad last month, and he has picked up where he left off. The pride of Northwest Missouri State has been a solid addition to the Rams’ rotation, particularly against the run (+3.5 run grade).
December 15, 2015 at 2:37 pm in reply to: 3 Rams are PFF's "best at their position" this week & more PFF stuff #35673znModeratorfrom 10 THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT NFL WEEK 14
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/12/15/pro-10-things-to-know-about-nfl-week-14/
5. Todd Gurley was the highest-graded RB in Week 14.
Ah, there’s the Todd Gurley we saw in Weeks 4 through 8. On just 31 snaps and 16 rushing attempts against the Lions, the former Georgia standout notched 140 yards and a pair of TDs.
Much of Gurley’s success this season has come on “home run” rushes, as he leads the league in breakaway percentage, which shows which RBs earn the highest (and lowest) percentage of their yardage on runs of 15+ yards. 50.4 percent of Gurley’s yards have come on such rushes—Doug Martin is behind him at 44.7.
December 15, 2015 at 2:26 pm in reply to: reporters (including Tampa guys) set up the BUX game #35671znModeratorJenkins might return to face Tampa Bay
Joe Lyons
According to Rams coach Jeff Fisher, there’s a chance the team will get cornerback Janoris Jenkins back for Thursday night’s game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers at Edward Jones Dome.
Jenkins, a talented fourth-year cornerback, sat out Sunday’s 21-14 win over visiting Detroit after suffering a concussion the week before.
“He was limited today in practice,” Fisher said Monday when asked about Jenkins after a walk-through at Rams Park. “He passed all the tests today. He’s got one more phase, which is the exertion phase. We expect that to happen” Tuesday.
Jenkins, a second-round draft pick in 2012, started the Rams’ first 12 games this season and has 52 tackles, including 47 solos, and three interceptions. He has 10 career interceptions in 55 career starts.
With Jenkins out, the Rams’ secondary stepped it up against Detroit. The team’s other fourth-year cornerback, Trumaine Johnson — who had missed the previous two-plus games — intercepted a late first-half pass and returned it 58 yards for the game’s first score. He also helped limit the Lions’ Calvin Johnson, aka “Megatron,” to just one reception. It went for 16 yards.
“It’s next man up,” Rams safety Rodney McLeod said. “You miss having guys like Janoris and (safety) T.J. (McDonald) out there, but you see a lot of guys out there who’ve earned the right to be on that field and who really played well. Marcus Roberson was going against Golden Tate — that’s not an easy matchup — and Maurice Alexander filling the shoes of T.J. You can just go down the line. … All you can do is just try to battle through the injuries and keep trying to make plays.”
Fisher added that he was “really pleased. For Marcus to line up and make the plays he did and then for Maurice to step in for T.J. and play and run and hit and tackle in addition to doing the special teams stuff, I was pretty impressed with the way they played.”
GURLEY IS OK
Rams rookie running back Todd Gurley sat out the last few plays Sunday after getting the game’s final first down. But he said it wasn’t a big deal.
“I banged my knee up just a little bit,” he said following the game. “But you know, it’s part of the game. It happens every game. We got a quick turnaround, get in there and get some treatment and I’ll be fine.”
The Rams and Buccaneers were limited to walk-throughs Monday, meaning their injury reports were estimated. Gurley was listed limited/not injury related (rest).
“He was fine,” Fisher said. “We had to project today, but he was limited. There was no issues with Todd other than he had 16 carries for 140 yards.”
And two second-half touchdowns.
According to the Rams’ report, DE Robert Quinn (back), OL Andrew Donnal (knee) and CB Eric Patterson (ankle) did not practice, with WR Kenny Britt (shoulder), T Rob Havenstein (calf) and Jenkins (concussion) listed as limited.
The Buccaneers listed LB Bruce Carter (ankle), WR Vincent Jackson (knee) and former Illinois DT Akeen Spence (ankle) as not practicing. Listed as limited were LB Lavonte David (ankle), DE George Johnson (calf), G Logan Mankins (ankle), fand ormer Mizzou DE Jacquies Smith (hamstring).
SUNDAY PARTICIPATION
Six Rams defenders were on the field for all 71 snaps Sunday: Mark Barron, Eureka High’s Alexander, McLeod, Johnson, Roberson and James Laurinaitis.
According to the press box stats, Barron led the way with 11 tackles, with Laurinaitis and Roberson chipping in with eight each. Roberson also knocked down a pair of passes.
Johnson scored the game’s first points, with his interception. It was his career-best fifth interception this season and the 13th of his career. Johnson also had a pair of pass defenses.
The Rams’ Aaron Donald had three of the team’s four sacks. The other came from fellow defensive tackle Michael Brockers.
Quarterback Case Keenum and offensive linemen Tim Barnes, Garrett Reynolds, Cody Wichmann, Greg Robinson and Havenstein were on the field for all 55 offensive snaps.
RAM-BLINGS
Fisher said that receiver Stedman Bailey continues to make progress after being shot twice in the head on Nov. 24.
“We’re hoping to get some news here in the next couple of days, but he’s improving,” the coach said. “He’s still in the hospital. He’s more in the rehab phase right now than he is in the recover phase.”
Bailey was officially moved to the non-football injury list on Monday.
• Asked about the yellow uniforms the Rams will be wearing in Thursday’s “Color Rush” game, Fisher said: “I’m just glad it’s not baseball where I have to wear the uniform as well.”
• Midway through the first half Sunday, after a sack by the Lions’ Ziggy Ansah left the Rams with a fourth down at the Detroit 37, Fisher passed on a 55-yard field-goal try and opted for a punt.
“It was a field-position thing,” the coach explained. “It had nothing to do with (kicker Greg Zuerlein). Greg’s leg strength was there. You saw his kickoffs. You saw his PATs. It was just a field-position thing.”
Zuerlein, who kicked a franchise-record 61-yarder earlier this season, had missed the previous two games because of a strained hip.
On Johnny Hekker’s punt, reserve safety Christian Bryant came up with a stellar play at the goal line to keep the ball from getting to the end zone and teammate Chase Reynolds downed the ball at the Detroit 2-yard line.
December 15, 2015 at 8:59 am in reply to: Russell Wilson doing great lately; 49ers lose Boone; & other NFC west things #35659znModerator49ers’ Alex Boone expected to miss final three games
Still stinging from a humiliating defeat in Cleveland, the 49ers learned Monday that a knee injury will likely prevent left guard Alex Boone from returning this season, Daniel Brown of the San Jose Mercury News reports.
“A huge blow,” left tackle Joe Staley said, “I’ve been right next to Alex all year and he’s done a great job for us. … It’s a bummer situation for him to go down at the end of the year.”The 49ers did not announce the official results of Boone’s MRI exam, but a league source said it’s an MCL issue that, while not devastating, should be enough to keep Boone off the field for the team’s final three games.San Francisco’s offensive line already looked overmatched in a 24-10 loss to the lowly Cleveland Browns on Sunday, a defeat so listless that even 49ers players questioned their effort level.
znModeratorGreat read. It was fun to get the details on what Williams did.
Personally, I like it better when they win.
But that’s just me.
znModeratorIt’s coming. It’s on its way. It’ll be here soon.
The Bell Pepper Game.
znModeratorThe OL has just been Guernica.
Yeah and we remember the old days, long ago, when the Rams OL was just an endless list of healthy pro bowlers
znModeratorGurley gets some rest on estimated injury report
Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — The St. Louis Rams began their work week with a walkthrough Monday as they prepare for the quick turnaround for Thursday night’s game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Because the team only did a walkthrough but is required to submit an injury report, Thursday’s list is an approximation of how much or how little a player would have participated had there been a full practice.
Running back Todd Gurley, who left some fans holding their breath when he left Sunday’s game against Detroit, is apparently going to be just fine. Gurley told reporters after the game that he “banged up” his knee and though he’s listed as limited on Monday’s injury report, the reason listed is “not injury-related (rest).”
Elsewhere on the injury report, the Rams have still not placed end Robert Quinn (back) in injured reserve, so he’s listed as not participating. Offensive lineman Andrew Donnal (knee) and cornerback Eric Patterson (ankle) have the same designation.
Cornerback Janoris Jenkins, meanwhile, has passed all but the exertion test in the concussion protocol, according to coach Jeff Fisher. Jenkins missed Sunday’s game against Detroit and was limited Monday, but if he passes the exertion test will be cleared to return.
Here’s Monday’s full injury report:
Did not participate — DE Robert Quinn (back), OL Andrew Donnal (knee), CB Eric Patterson (ankle).
Limited participation — RB Todd Gurley (rest), WR Kenny Britt (shoulder), OT Rob Havenstein (calf), CB Janoris Jenkins (concussion)
znModeratorYeah, I think he might mean that Foles doesn’t have enough talent to be his No. 1 QB.
Or the right KIND of talent, eg. a quick release.
.
December 14, 2015 at 4:36 pm in reply to: 3 Rams are PFF's "best at their position" this week & more PFF stuff #35636znModeratorI wish there was a realistic way to keep both TruJo and Jenks now that they are both emerging as top CBs. Those two along with Gaines, Joyner, Roberson…talk about an embarrassment of riches.
Tru may end up getting more money than JJ.
Strange as that sounds.w
vYou know with this bunch, I trust them to make up for it if they lose someone.
Basically, they have one of the deepest corner units in the league, and it includes 2 2nd rounders and the rest all low round picks. Jenkins, Johnson, Gaines, Roberson, Joyner.
That means that within 3 years they built a corner unit THAT deep. Roberson was a UDFA so he doesn’t count toward this, but they drafted 5 CBs in 3 years and 4 out of the 5 made it (Gaines of course is injured). Only McGee didn’t. Compare that to 2000-2011, when they could not draft one single decent corner.
If they want to they can just keep doing it.
znModeratorPart of building a winning team, however, is acquiring enough depth to remain competitive when injuries inevitably occur.
Well, apparently, Fisher relies on a FIVE year
plan, TrenchAND that’s not real. When entire units are wiped out, particularly the OL, no one in the league…no one…has the depth to make up for that. Not to make up for multiple simultaneous injuries. That was the case with the Rams in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, and 2014.
Really, look around league history and point out all the teams that thrived on offense after losing multiple OL starters at the same time.
In other words, this is one of those things people say as if it’s true, but then can’t demonstrate that it’s true. Namely, the good teams have depth number. No, they don;t, as a rule, if an entire unit gets compromised.
Imagine for example if next year they lost Quinn, Donald, Brockers, Fairley, and Hayes. Do you think any team would have the depth to make up for that? Well that’s what happened to the Rams OL several times over the years.
Actually (IMO) it was a 3 year plan and it was working. Until 2014, which wiped out the OL and cost them Bradford. That’s a lot to make up for.
2015 was starting over. It was year 1 of that offense.
And btw as I said before, people can still say I don’t care I don’t like Fisher anyway. So it’s not as if this discussion can settle the issues.
.
znModeratorAaron Donald — the one that got away — haunts Lions (article from Detroit Free Press)
Jeff Seidel
ST. LOUIS – This was cruel and unusual punishment.
It’s one thing that the St. Louis Rams beat the Detroit Lions on Sunday, 21-14.
But how they did it was especially cruel for fans.
Because Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald just destroyed the Lions. He turned into a one-man wrecking crew who hit quarterback Matthew Stafford six times and finished with three sacks.
==
More of the same kinda thing.
===
FOUR DOWNS: Where was Megatron?
Four downs following the Lions’ 21-14 loss to the Rams includes where was Megatron, uninspired football, 2014 Draft revisited and good Gurley.
FIRST DOWN: WHERE WAS MEGATRON?Golden Tate stood at his locker after the Lions’ 21-14 loss in St. Louis Sunday and wondered aloud why Calvin Johnson wasn’t more of a factor in the game.
“It’s frustrating, man, because he’s such a huge part of this offense, this team, and even this organization,” Tate said of Megatron’s one-catch performance. “I know what he’s capable of, we all know what he’s capable of, it’s just unfortunate.
“I think we have to get him going early. He definitely helps us win. So we’re going to watch the film, see what we can all do better collectively and move forward.”
Johnson was targeted five times in the game and came down with just one reception for 16 yards. It appeared that catch might never come as the minutes fell off the clock in the fourth quarter, but he was able to snag a 16-yard rope from Stafford at the Rams 2-yard line with just under three minutes left in the game.
The play set up Golden Tate’s second touchdown of the game and pushed Johnson’s consecutive-game streak with a catch to 132 games.
“Every game’s different. Golden (Tate) caught nine balls, (Theo) Riddick caught seven balls, Calvin had five targets,” head coach Jim Caldwell said. “Every game is a little different.”
Every game is different. Every opposing plan to stop Megatron is different, too. But some how, some way, the Lions have to find ways to get their best player the ball.
Their inability to consistently block St. Louis’ front four was part of the problem.
Stafford didn’t have much time for plays to develop down the field and was forced to dump the ball and play small ball with Tate and Riddick for most of the game.
“I have to find a way to get him the ball,” quarterback Matthew Stafford said after the game. “Let’s be more aggressive to him, give him some shots.
“It’s on me to make sure he gets a little bit more involved earlier on.”
SECOND DOWN: UNINSPIRED FOOTBALL
Caldwell was asked if he thought Sunday’s poor performance had anything to do with a carryover effect from last week’s devastating loss to Green Bay.
He said he thought his team “fought hard” and “played tough” but just didn’t execute well enough.
For the last couple minutes that might be true, but for most of the game the Lions seemed to play pretty uninspired football.
They missed tackles, lost 50/50 chances and were on the wrong side of a lot of one-on-one matchups upfront on both sides of the ball.
It’s been a common theme this season. Something adverse happens, say a missed/bad officiating call, or a coaching or front office shakeup, and this team simply hasn’t been able to find a way to respond the following week for whatever reason.
THIRD DOWN: 2014 DRAFT REVISITED… AGAIN
Eric Ebron has been compared to Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald ever since the Lions passed on Donald and chose Ebron at No. 10 in the 2014 NFL Draft. The Rams selected Donald three spots later at No. 13.
Ebron’s answered questions regarding the comparison many times, including earlier this week ahead of Sunday’s matchup in St. Louis, but Ebron finally seemed a little frustrated by the line of questioning after the game.
“I’m happy for his success,” Ebron said of Donald. “I’m happy for the scheme he’s in. I’m happy that they’re giving him an opportunity to shine.
“I’m not upset. You guys are upset. The media is upset. The fans are upset. I don’t care. I didn’t choose to come here. They (Lions) chose me to come here. There’s nothing I can do about it.”
Ebron caught three passes for 27 yards in the game and now has 34 receptions for 384 yards and four touchdowns on the year.
Donald sacked Stafford three times Sunday and is well on his way to a second-straight Pro Bowl. He leads all defensive tackles with 11 sacks on the year.
“I have to go out and do my job,” Ebron said. “He (Donald) does his, I have to do mine.”
Ebron shows flashes of great play, albeit not consistently enough, but the story of that 2014 Draft is far from being written yet.
FOURTH DOWN: GOOD GURLEY
Rams running back Todd Gurley ran roughshod over and through Detroit’s defense on way to 140 yards and two touchdowns. The Rams as a team racked up 203 yards on the ground against a Lions defense that hadn’t allowed more than 68 yards rushing in any of their last four games.
“I know he ran through a lot of tackles and made some nice runs,” Caldwell said. “He’s got vision, he’s got power, he’s got speed and we didn’t tackle him very well. Like I said, a couple of our run fits might’ve been off as well.”
When the Lions have played good football defensively this year they’ve been very good against the run. Sunday, they were no match for Gurley’s physical brand of football. They missed run fits and didn’t tackle particularly well.
Gurley’s drawn comparisons to Adrian Peterson and Eric Dickerson since joining the league. The Lions did little to squelch those comparisons Sunday.
“He’s a great running back,” safety Isa Abdul-Quddus said. “Even though he’s young, he’s been running like a man. So, he had a good day today.
znModeratorand they are 10-2. There OLine and WR core has guys coming off the street, and they are playing well. Coach these guys up. The young team mantra needs to stop as well. Fisher has been here which will be 4 years, and all we got was sub-500 teams, in that span. Mediocrity is all we are getting. Change is a need.
Accounting for injuries is not an “excuse,” it represents an effort to find honest analytical explanations. Calling them an “excuse” is basically to say posters are rationalizing or in denial. And…we don’t want to go around saying that, it backfires. Anyway in terms of being tired of stuff, personally I am tired of hearing about the great exception to everything, the Patz, as if they set a norm. No they are an exception. In other threads I have detailed how the Patz problems on the OL got compensated for by Brady’s ability to play at a high level in a quick passing game. When he holds the ball longer than 2.1 seconds the offense does not do as well. So the only thing the Patz teach us is that everyone else should have drafted Brady.
(Besides, even with Brady, it’s no accident they lost twice when Gronkowski was out. Coincidence? I don’t think so.)
In terms of injuries, IF you have multiple simultaneous UNIT injuries, like to the OL, it has an effect. It just does, and that’s demonstrable throughout league history. For example, with the Rams, when both Johnson and Jenkins were out, it had an effect. How could it not have an effect. And who is 5 deep at corner (that is you have to replace 2 starting corners and a nickel since the previous nickel likely becomes a starting corner). The Rams defense is better when at least one of the 2, Jenkins or Johnson, starts. It’s only basic analytic thoroughness to account for something like that.
Same with the OL. Rams DID build effective OLs from 2012-14 and when they WEREN’T *multiply* injured they did well. IMO ignoring the multiple unit injuries is just not good analysis.
Besides, you don’t need to win the “injuries are excuses” debate—all you ever have to say is “I don’t care I don’t like Fisher as a head coach anyway.” I did that with Linehan. His OLs were injured at an unbelievable level in 2007 and 2008. And I just said I know, and they can’t play with that level of injuries, but I don’t care, I don’t like Linehan as a head coach anyway.
End of rant.
Everyone back to work. .
December 14, 2015 at 9:10 am in reply to: that is what football people call "a win" (Lions game thread) #35620znModeratorBtw, anyone notice much difference at all in how the game was called with Boras? I didn’t.
Well they can’t change the offense, but they can change how they respond to situations with this or that playcall. But you’re right that’s hard to notice.
I think the main difference was, there were just fewer mistakes. Part of firing Cigz was just a shock treatment. Wake up call.
znModeratorT. Johnson helps Rams stifle ‘Megatron’
Joe Lyons
Trumaine Johnson was up to the challenge — and then some — Sunday afternoon at the Edward Jones Dome.
Johnson, a fourth-year cornerback for the Rams, returned to the starting lineup after missing two-plus games with a thigh strain. His assignment: shadowing Detroit standout wide receiver Calvin Johnson.
“It was Johnson vs. Johnson all week, even in practice. No matter where No. 81 went, I knew I had to be there,” Trumaine said. “Going in, I knew it was a tough matchup, but I feel like I can match up with anybody. He’s one of the best in the league right now and all week I looked forward to going against him.
“And I’m really happy about the way it turned out.”
In his ninth NFL season, Calvin Johnson is one of the league’s premier receivers. A Pro Bowl selection in each of the last five seasons and a first-team All-Pro choice in three of the last four, Calvin entered Sunday’s action needing just 35 yards to reach the 1,000-yard mark for the seventh time in his career, including the last six.
But Trumaine, with the help of his teammates, limited the 6-foot-5, 237-pound “Megatron” to just one catch for 16 yards. And that came with 2½ minutes to play in the Rams’ 21-14 victory.
“We were in zone,” stressed Trumaine, laughing, when asked about Calvin’s 16-yard reception that set up the Lions’ second touchdown. “Seriously, it was a team effort. We knew he was a big part of their offense, but we worked together and we managed to shut him down.”
The Rams don’t do a lot of shadow coverage, but with the team’s other starting cornerback, Janoris Jenkins, sidelined with a concussion, the chore of matching up with Calvin fell to Trumaine.
“Coming off the quad, we weren’t quite sure,” Rams coach Jeff Fisher said. “I talked to (Trumaine) last Saturday night about coming back and taking the challenge on with Calvin this week… We did some coverage adjustments at times — everybody does when you face Calvin — and I thought Trumaine played a really good game.”
With Trumaine blanketing Calvin, Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford threw in the direction of his No. 1 receiver just five times Sunday. It wasn’t until early in the second quarter that Stafford threw that way for the first time. From his own 2, the quarterback pump-faked to freeze Trumaine for a split-second and had Calvin open for a big gainer down the sideline but overthrew him.
“I obviously missed him when we were backed up,’’ Stafford explained. “He ran a good route, the safety was streaming over the top, so I couldn’t throw a high arc, but I missed him on a good route. It’s just on me to make sure he gets a little more involved earlier on.’’
The next time Stafford threw in Calvin’s direction, Trumaine was ready — and waiting.
On a short pass to the right side, Trumaine jumped the route, picked off the pass and returned his career-best fifth interception of the season 58 yards for his second career pick-6 and a 7-0 Rams lead with 4:55 to play in the opening half.
“Lots of film study,” Trumaine said when asked about his 13th career interception. “All week, I watched them run that play and get completions. So when I read it today, I knew I had to step up and make a play.”
Trumaine, who was hurt on an interception return in the Rams’ loss at Baltimore on Nov. 22, was headed down the left sideline when a huge block from 5-10, 195-pound safety Rodney McLeod on 6-5, 312-pound Detroit tackle Michael Ola cleared the way for the touchdown.
“Just hustle,” McLeod said. “I had a good read on the play and just busted my butt to get there to make a play.
“Any time the defense can create a turnover and put points on the board, it’s huge.”
Stafford added: “Calvin looked to be doing everything he could, but (Trumaine) was just squatting on it and made a good play. I’m not upset at my decision or where the throw went. (Trumaine) guessed and he guessed right.”
With Trumaine blanketing Calvin, Stafford simply passed elsewhere. He threw 10 times and completed nine, including two TDs, to Golden Tate and completed seven of 11 passes to running back Theo Riddick.
Trumaine had a shot at another interception late in the game but was unable to corral Stafford’s under-pressure pass.
“Getting ‘Tru’ back was huge,’’ McLeod said. “He’s a veteran guy, a guy who studies a lot of film and who brings a lot of energy and playmaking ability.”
A third-round draft choice in 2012, Trumaine will be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. But that’s not his concern now.
“I’m just glad to contribute to the win,: Trumaine said after helping the Rams snap a five-game losing streak. “It felt great being out there with my brothers again. I just want to step up and be consistent. … I love my teammates. The chemistry is there on the defense. I’ve been playing with these guys for three and four years. I’ll worry about (the future) after the season.”
znModeratorRams notebook: No style points, but Keenum makes it happen
Jim Thomas
Case Keenum is taking any and all suggestions about what to call his longest completion of the day Sunday.
“I’ll let you come up with it,” a giddy Keenum told reporters after the Rams’ 21-14 victory over Detroit. “Just have some options for me tomorrow.”
When asked if three suggestions would be enough, Keenum replied, “Yeah, at least three and then we’ll name it.”
OK, how about:
1.) The Water Balloon.
2.) The Hail Barely.
3.) The Alley-oops.
Keenum’s 25-yard floater came down in wide receiver Kenny Britt’s arms, jump-starting the Rams’ longest drive of the season.
Just moments earlier, what looked to be an 83-yard punt return for a touchdown by Tavon Austin was nullified because of a holding penalty on Cody Davis.
So instead of taking a 21-7 lead, the Rams found themselves backed up at their 9-yard line with just a 14-7 advantage and 47 seconds left in the third quarter.
“Obviously, everybody was upset,” Keenum said. “I thought, ‘Heck, screw it. Let’s go 90 yards or whatever it is.’”
The Rams did just that with a seven-play, 91-yard touchdown drive. It began with the connection to Britt on a play in which Keenum knew it was a free play because of a penalty flag on Detroit.
“I threw it this time, instead of letting some guy dribble my head on the turf like I did the last time that happened,” Keenum said.
That, of course, was a reference to the controversial concussion he suffered Nov. 22 in Baltimore. He held onto the ball too long that day even though there was a flag on the turf for a Ravens offside.
This time he got rid of the ball before the pass rush arrived. The Rams took the gain, declining a pass interference call against the Lions. On the next play, Todd Gurley rambled 25 more yards off right tackle.
Next thing you knew, the Rams were in the end zone on a 15-yard run by Gurley and with a two-touchdown lead.
Like that throw to Britt, Keenum’s work wasn’t always pretty. He completed 14 of 22 passes for a mere 124 yards, with an interception and a passer rating of just 59.7. But the Rams did come up with four third-down conversions, and at day’s end they had a victory.
NO JENKINS
As expected, Janoris Jenkins was a pregame scratch because of a concussion. But Trumaine Johnson returned after missing two games with a thigh injury, and Johnson’s return proved to be huge with his interception return for a score and his coverage work on Calvin Johnson.
The Rams went with Marcus Roberson as their other starting cornerback. Lamarcus Joyner was at his usual nickel spot. A fourth cornerback, Eric Patterson, played special teams in his Rams debut after being promoted from the practice squad Friday.
Other Rams inactives: K Zach Hocker (thigh), QB Sean Mannion, G/T Andrew Donnal (knee), DE Robert Quinn (back), DE Matt Longacre, and G/C Brian Folkerts.
After missing the Cincinnati and Arizona games because of a right hip injury, Greg Zuerlein returned and handled kickoffs as well as kicking two extra points.
But perhaps out of concern for the injury, coach Jeff Fisher passed on a potential 55-yard field goal early in the second half, sending Johnny Hekker out to punt instead.
GAME BALL FOR BORAS
Johnson got a game ball Sunday and so did Rob Boras, who replaced Frank Cignetti as offensive coordinator last Monday.
“(Boras) worked really hard, as the staff did and the players,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “The players supported the staff this week, knowing it was gonna be difficult.”
ALEXANDER’S HOMECOMING
Eureka High product Maurice Alexander, who once worked as a janitor cleaning after Rams games at Edward Jones Dome, made his first home start Sunday. According to unofficial press box stats, he finished with five tackles.
“It went great,” Alexander said. “Just as I expected. You know you play how you practice. We came in with a great mindset as a secondary — no balls over the top of our heads.”
December 13, 2015 at 9:48 pm in reply to: that is what football people call "a win" (Lions game thread) #35611znModeratorfrom off the net
===
rfip the second
The Aaron Donald effect? Stafford had no passes thrown 20+ yards downfield. He had career-high 14 screen passes, 5 more than any other game. Per Wagoner
And
Per @ESPNStatsInfo, Stafford’s average pass traveled a mere 4.1 yards past the LOS!”
December 13, 2015 at 9:39 pm in reply to: that is what football people call "a win" (Lions game thread) #35609znModeratorThe offense clearly has a long way to go but I’ll just enjoy this one.
Yeah I share that way of lookin at it. My view is, a win is a win, and always enjoy a win.
On Sundays, I don’t care about the draft, the record, the coaching debates, the player controversies. I just enjoy wins when they win.
The cloudy hardcore realistic issues can wait till Monday.
znModerator0 ANYTHING, other than yards.
20 First downs? Okay. Or we could all buy lottery tickets.
20 Points? Crazy, but sure.
20 minutes of possession before the end of the 3rd quarter? Sure, why not…aim for the stars!Do we even have 20 TDs all year? It’s been so sad that I’m not sure we do.
That said, I honestly don’t think we break any of these barriers which any competent offense should do…except maybe the first downs… 20 is a bit high. Still doable, but high
Well they did get 20 points. Plus a freebie additional 1 point.
first downs? They only got 15.
TOP? 26:10. Not good enough but still, it’s a 20.
I will add 3rd down efficiency. Let’s say the goal is better than 20%. They got 4 of 11, which is 36.3%. If that were their season avg. they would rank 24th, which is way better than 32nd, which is what they did rank before today.
.
znModeratorRams snap five-game losing streak
Jim Thomas
What looked like a victory-clinching 83-yard punt return for a touchdown by Tavon Austin got called back late in the third quarter Sunday because of a holding penalty on Cody Davis.
So instead of going up 21-7, the Rams were backed up at their 9, clinging to a 14-7 lead over the Detroit Lions.
Those are the kinds of mistakes the Rams seem to make all too often. And those are the kinds of mistakes that doom 4-8 teams. But not this time.
“Obviously, everybody was upset,” quarterback Case Keenum said. “I thought, ‘Heck, screw it. Let’s go 90 yards or whatever it is.'”
Keenum and the Rams did just that with a seven-play, 91-yard touchdown drive. Keenum got things going with his longest completion of the game, a 25-yard floater to Kenny Britt. Todd Gurley followed with a 24-yard run off right tackle. Next thing you know Gurley was in the end zone on a 15-yard run, giving the Rams that two-touchdown lead early in the fourth quarter. It was the longest drive of the season for the Rams.
From there, they were able to hold off the Lions the rest of the way, snapping their five-game losing streak with a 21-14 victory at the Edward Jones Dome.
“We’ve had some tough ones,” Keenum said. “We were on this streak of not being successful. That’s what makes winning just feel so good. I mean, it may not look pretty at time but coming into that locker room — any winning locker room is pretty awesome.”
There were 51,202 tickets distributed for what could have been the Rams’ last Sunday home game in St. Louis. With owner Stan Kroenke planning to move the team to Los Angeles in 2016, the home finale is Thursday against Tampa Bay.
As Keenum mentioned, Sunday’s triumph was no thing of beauty. But the Rams took a 7-0 halftime lead on a 58-yard interception return by cornerback Trumaine Johnson. In the second half, the Rams finally got their offense going — the running game in particular — posting a couple of touchdowns on Gurley runs.
Gurley finished with 140 yards on 16 carries, his first 100-yard rushing game since the Rams’ last victory — way back on Nov. 1 against San Francisco.
“It felt good,” Gurley said. “We had lost (five) in a row so that’s never a good feeling. … We want to finish on a strong note. We might not be going to the playoffs, but it’s always good to bring that momentum going into the offseason.”
All told, the Rams (5-8) rushed for a season-high 203 yards. Gurley now has 975 yards rushing for the season with three games left to play.
Besides his “pick six,” Johnson did stellar work against Detroit star wide receiver Calvin Johnson, limiting the player known as “Megatron” to one catch for 16 yards. And as T. Johnson was quick to point out, C. Johnson’s only catch came against zone coverage.
(With C. Johnson lined up in the slot anyway, and not outside opposite T. Johnson.)
The Rams also had a revived pass rush, getting three sacks from defensive tackle Aaron Donald. With 11 on the season, Donald is the first Rams defensive tackle since D’Marco Farr (in 1995) with 10 or more sacks in one season.
“That’s kinda what we want to do,” Fisher said. “We want to run the football and play good defense.”
With Rob Boras calling plays in his first game as offensive coordinator, and Keenum making his second start at quarterback, the Rams couldn’t dent the scoreboard in the first half.
Keenum’s mobility helped on a couple of plays. Boras made sure that Tavon Austin was involved. Austin gained 13 yards on a run lining up in the backfield, something the Rams haven’t tried in a while. He also gained 20 yards on a jet sweep — with Gurley making the handoff out of the wildcat formation.
The Rams reached Detroit territory three times in the opening half, but were in field goal range only once. But on third-and-5 from the Detroit 27 early in the second quarter, Keenum was sacked for a 10-yard loss by Ziggy Ansah.
Instead of trying a 55-yard field goal by Greg Zuerlein, who was back in the lineup after missing two games with a right hip injury, Fisher decided to punt.
But Boras, who replaced the fired Frank Cignetti on Monday, finally got some points on the board in the second half.
“(Boras) worked really hard, as the staff did and the players,” Fisher said. “The players supported the staff this week, knowing it was gonna be difficult.
“I’m sure he’s looking at it right now wishing he could have a bunch of calls back. But as a first time play-caller it’s hard to convince him sometimes when you don’t get a first down on first down — it’s not your fault.
“You’re playing a good defense. It’s hard to just call things and have success all the time. But you set things up. The most important thing from our perspective, which he did, was adjust. I thought the staff did a good job adjusting.”
Both Boras and Trumaine Johnson received game balls after the contest. Johnson, who had missed the past two games with a thigh injury, now has 13 career interceptions — the most for any player in his draft class (2012). His five interceptions this season are the most for a Ram since Oshiomogho Atogwe had five in 2008.
In a tactic rarely used by the Rams, he shadowed Calvin Johnson all over the field. He had known all week that was going to be his assignment.
“It was Johnson vs. Johnson the whole week,” Trumaine Johnson said. “I knew it was going to be a tough matchup, but I feel like I can match up with anybody with my big frame, especially him.”
Even so, Detroit (4-9) made a game of it. Golden Tate caught a two-yard TD pass from quarterback Matthew Stafford with 2:05 left, to make it a one-score game at 21-14. And then the Lions recovered an onside kick on their 47 with 2:03 to play and all three timeouts remaining.
But the Rams defense held. It was four-and-out for Detroit, and just like that the local gridiron nightmare was over.
“No matter what your record is, we’re going to keep playing and keep battling,” Donald said. “We’ve got to finish strong. That’s what it’s about. That’s what we’re going to do.”
znModeratorDonald, Trumaine Johnson up, Greg Robinson down in Rams’ win
Nick Wagoner
ST. LOUIS — A look at St. Louis Rams players who were “up” and those who were “down” in Sunday’s 21-14 win against the Detroit Lions:
UP
DT Aaron Donald: We’re officially running out of superlatives for the Rams’ second-year defensive tackle, but he has to land on this list after posting his first NFL hat trick of sacks. Donald had five tackles to go with those sacks and the unofficial press box statistics also credited him with three tackles for loss and a whopping six quarterback hits. He should be in the mix for Defensive Player of the Year and is a lock to go to his second straight Pro Bowl.
Offensive coordinator Rob Boras: Boras didn’t reinvent the wheel and the Rams’ offense still only mustered 317 yards of total offense, but Boras lands here because he went through an extremely difficult week and there were no obvious signs that the job was too big for him. Boras is in a really tough spot taking over as offensive coordinator with just four games to go, but he should be commended for sticking with the run and helping the Rams’ offense find the end zone twice, something it hadn’t done since Week 8.
Calvin Johnson
Trumaine Johnson put the clamps on star Lions WR Calvin Johnson on Sunday, including returning this interception for a touchdown.
P Johnny Hekker: Like Donald, Hekker continues to amaze with his consistently outstanding production every week. He punted six times with a net average of 45.5 yards and dropped four of those inside Detroit’s 20. You never know how Pro Bowl voting will go with a punter but it’d be a farce if Hekker is left out.CB Trumaine Johnson: In returning from a thigh injury he suffered against Baltimore three weeks ago, Johnson had the task of shadowing Lions receiver Calvin Johnson all day. Johnson did it as well as any corner has since Johnson came into the league. Calvin Johnson finished with just one catch for 16 yards and Trumaine Johnson sent the ultimate exclamation point with an interception he returned 58 yards for the game’s first touchdown.
DOWN
OT Greg Robinson: It’s been a long, tough year for Robinson, who had his hands full all day with Lions defensive end Ezekiel Ansah. Robinson picked up a penalty for a chop block and had another holding call declined. Ansah had a sack and two quarterback hits.
znModeratorAaron Donald, Todd Gurley lead the way as Rams beat Lions
Michael David Smith
Fisher’s last two first-round draft picks, running back Todd Gurley and defensive tackle Aaron Donald, both had outstanding games today as the Rams beat the Lions, 21-14.
Gurley had 16 carries for 140 yards and two touchdowns, one of the best games yet for one of the favorites to win the Offensive Rookie of the Year award. It was a sensational game for Gurley, who showed once again that he’s a unique talent who was worthy of a Top 10 pick.
And Donald may have been even better. He sacked Matthew Stafford three times and had three other tackles behind the line of scrimmage. The Lions passed on Donald in last year’s draft so they could take Eric Ebron instead. That was a huge mistake.
The Lions’ offense couldn’t get much going. Calvin Johnson didnt catch his first game until just before the two-minute warning in the fourth quarter, narrowly avoiding the first catchless game of his career. But they did make a game of it in the end, scoring a touchdown just before the two-minute warning and then getting the ball back. Unfortunately for Detroit, their last chance ended on a fourth down when a shotgun snap got past Stafford, and his bailout throw to Ebron fell incomplete.
Neither of these teams is going anywhere, but the 5-8 Rams have to feel pretty good about having young talent like Donald and Gurley. And the 4-9 Lions have to wish they had made some of the draft moves the Rams have made.
znModeratorNew coordinator Rob Boras gets Todd Gurley, Rams’ run game going
Nick Wagoner
ST. LOUIS — The only offensive success the St. Louis Rams have had this season has been tied directly to the effectiveness of running back Todd Gurley. As Gurley has gone, so have the Rams.
St. Louis went just about nowhere in their previous five games, losing all of them to form a streak that spurred coach Jeff Fisher to fire offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti and promote Rob Boras to the job last week. After a first half that looked eerily similar to those five games, the Rams’ offense took off in the second half as Boras dialed up Gurley’s No. 30.
By the time it was over, Gurley had shouldered the load for the Rams’ 21-14 victory at the Edward Jones Dome on Sunday.
Earlier in the week, Fisher said that in making the move to Boras, he hoped his new coordinator could help spark the run game. Boras said he wanted to feed Gurley as much as possible, especially after the rookie back had just nine carries in each of his past two games.
Whatever Boras did this week apparently worked. Gurley finished with 140 yards on 16 carries with two touchdowns. It was his fifth 100-yard game of the season and his first since Week 8 against San Francisco. As a team, the Rams rushed for 203 yards on 29 carries, an average of 7 yards per attempt.
Make no mistake, the Rams’ offense is still far from being even mediocre. But for one day — or one half — at least, Boras was able to get Gurley going again. It’s no coincidence that the result was a victory.
What it means: The Rams snapped the aforementioned five-game losing streak, getting their first win since that game against the 49ers on Nov. 1. The victory is essentially meaningless as the Rams improved to 5-8 but are, for all intents and purposes, out of the playoff race.
One reason to be excited: The Rams have difficult decisions to make this offseason when it comes to their many free agents, but it looks like they’re at least going to have good choices at cornerback. They likely can’t afford to keep both Janoris Jenkins and Trumaine Johnson, but both have proved that they’re worthy. If Jenkins’ price gets too high, Johnson might be a solid, more cost-effective option. His 58-yard pick-six and the job he did against Detroit receiver Calvin Johnson showed that Johnson has developed into a good NFL cornerback.
Fantasy watch: The matchup didn’t look favorable, especially with so many injuries, but the Rams’ defense rebounded well from a couple of tough weeks against strong opponents. Johnson’s interception return for a score plus the Rams’ four sacks offered some big points for those who stood by their defense.
Ouch: The Rams made it through the game without any serious injuries of note, or at least none that were obvious during the game. Of course, they didn’t have much room for more serious injuries given their luck of late. They were without Jenkins (concussion) and end Robert Quinn (back), in addition to the many other injuries they’re dealing with on defense.
What’s next: It’s a short week for the Rams as they turn around and play Thursday night against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers at the Edward Jones Dome in what could be their final home game in St. Louis. It’s also the color rush game with the Rams wearing all yellow — if you’re into that kind of thing.
December 13, 2015 at 6:58 pm in reply to: Fisher, Keenum, Gurley, Donald, Brockers, Johnson…transcripts #35594znModerator(On if getting in 1-on-1 situations helps the team)
“It means everything. You’re supposed to win 1-on-1s. That’s why they brought me here. When I get (a 1-on-1 opportunity), I’m supposed to win it. I’m just doing my job.”I love it.
.
-
AuthorPosts
