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znModeratorBut who is ignoring race? Turn on CNN. Turn on MSNBC.
We are, in this discussion so far. That’s what I meant. I am aware that the mainstream media is mishandling the race issue, which means they’re talking about it.
But we would not be discussing cops at all in this thread if race (in all its complexity) had not made that the driving issue behind the entire “police” discussion.
So I was just saying that OUR discussion, right here in this thread, is leaving it out.
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znModeratorIt’s always interesting to read what other people think about the Rams offense and defense, but I do not put much stock in it. Articles like this are part retrospective to last season, part projection to next season and loaded with assumptions. We will know what we have after four games, and then reassess again in week 10 or so.
I agree.
Plus it’s PFF. PFF as a rule is unusually, strongly held in check by previous grades. They can’t look at contexts and situations and assess the trajectory of a unit or team. For example last year the Rams OL, which was inexperienced in the first place, went through a very debilitating injury bout. Can PFF account for that? No. It just goes “look see bad grades” and then has no choice but to assume the future will just mechanically repeat the past.
znModeratorznModeratorI know that doesn’t always work–I get that. But in the case of Castille or Sterling wouldn’t that have been a preferred option if the cop thought he was in danger?
Sterling WAS tased. They then interpreted his post-tased jerking on the ground as “threatening.”
Castille was not doing anything. In that case the officer was a freak out artist. He asked the Castille for his license and when he reached for it the officer shot him.
I don’t care if these are “difficult decisions.” You’re not supposed to have poorly trained freak out artists blowing innocent guys away because you asked him for his license.
Plus of course ignoring race in this is just failing to come to terms with the biggest issue here. These things, by measurable percentages, are just far more likely to happen to black men. That doesn’t mean the cop doing it is a ranting bigot, it means he has absorbed a lot of cultural biases and assumptions and sees danger where there is none with the black man, more often than not.
The only way to handle THAT is to make it part of a discussion we all share.
And we can’t do THAT if there are people busily trying to get race out of the discussion.
Listened to the news this morning, the Fresno kid had said he did not want to live, for whatever reason. This could be considered “suicide by cop”.
Yes.
That’s how I took that story from the get-go.
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.znModeratorSanders sold out. Now he gets the nicely upholstered chair in the senate democrat caucus? So much for his principles.
what it means is that he – regardless of his own political positions – has the same choice everyone else does: Clinton or Trump.
And in his estimation, Trump will be more regressive than Clinton.
And here we have the classic partisan divide. Now of course some of the rhetoric is–as it were–trumped up to be this bumper sticker version of “truth,” but we all know that’s just partisan rhetoric. It will be written as proclamations, declarations, and “god told me so” assertions, but we all know better. Facts are not at stake here, it’s about value judgments.
It gets down to this.
#1. The pro-Trump guy sez Sanders sold out.
#2. The anti-Trump guy sez Sanders recognizes Trump is far, far worse.
And people are left booing or cheering one position or the other.
My own view is this. Assume both statements are true, just for argument’s sake. If, for arguments sake, both statements are true, I side with #2, because #2 most strongly echoes my own feelings and beliefs.
There will be no “truth-winners” to this discussion. This is about votes, not truth. As in literally who votes for statement #1, who votes for statement #2. In fact, let’s pretend, for argument’s sake, that principle really is at stake. Let’s say for argument’s sake of the 2, Trump or Sanders, on this issue, Trump is the more firmly aligned with his own principles. My own view? I don’t care, they’re bloody awful principles and I don’t want to have anything to do with them.
Another view of this is that in fact, Sanders had a strong effect on the democractic party platform, rhetoric, and goals. I happen to believe there’s some truth to that. In which case, I endorse the principle of compromising here—he got something out of it, AND he puts in strong against the really, really bad (from my point of view) things Trump stands for.
So it’s us voting with our own partisan views guiding us. That’s all it is. Pretending otherwise strains credulity. “Fighting” to see who “wins” a debate like this is a waste of time. It’s clashing perspectives. That’s all it ever can be. I personally have low tolerance for the claim that it’s a winnable truth debate. It ain’t no such thing. It’s a war between partisan viewpoints and both from the start and in the end, plus along the way in the middle, all we have on this is votes and value judgments.
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znModeratorPretty funny. And original.
But, one quibble. I think Hitler would have been pro-Joffrey, not pro-Ned.
Oh, well.
Btw, any chance of getting Ramsmaniac to fix the video resolutions, so they fit within the post?
The Hitler vids are not based on Hitler’s views or ideas. They simply take a famous rant from the film and then re-write so that, as a rule, Hitler becomes the voice of an Ordinary Guy. It really has nothing to do with Hitler per se—it’s just the rant that counts. In this case, he’s just an ordinary GOT fan who is shocked by Stark;s fate. Here’s another in the same general vein, very typical. This time Hitler is a Seattle fan reacting to the famous superbowl INT:
znModeratorNothing partisan about it.
If course it is, and that’s all is. I mean there’s no shame in that. There’s no attack here. But political discussion like this is partisan. Everyone’s just playing out their spot in the political spectrum poll. Everyone identifies with the candidate who best represents their own vision and then dismisses, ignores, downplays, evades, erases, and otherwise steers clear from the bad stuff about their candidate.
The fact that you don’t see it that way is precisely part of BEING partisan. As a rule I find that being blind to one’s own partisanship is one of the big elements of being partisan.
Which is why I don’t get into the minutia wars. The whole thing is pre-scripted by partisanship.
But see to me, from my partisan position, it doesn’t matter what kind of guy Trump is. It’s not about character…that’s just marketing. I oppose his policies and overall vision. I don’t like the way he sees things, and I don’t like his priorities. If you managed somehow to convincingly defend his character (which I don’t think is possible but just for argument’s sake), I wouldn’t care…I would still oppose his vision and his policies.
And now that it has gotten down to DT and HC, I don’t care if you attack her character. I am just partisan enough (exactly like you) that it wouldn’t matter. “Character” is PR. Attacking character is PR.
But I will say that this game where somehow DT has integrity and HC doesn’t? It’s always just going to be seen as an inevitable part of the partisan game. It won’t mean anything. To me it would just always be you being partisan.
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znModeratorznModeratorShould Trump warrant it he’ll get it too. Waiting on the VP pick.
See? Partisan.
That’s how everyone is going to see those comments.
Not “truth giver is among us.”
But, “oh yeah…the Trump guy.”
Show me where Trump warrants it now. As I said I’m waiting on the VP pick.
It;s partisan to even put it that way my friend. Trump has been so controversial that it’s hard to escape this. You can overlook it and “demand proof” etc. but this stuff is kind of in your face and only a partisan could respond the way you are.
Though, that’s not to say the others aren;t partisan too. They clearly are. But someone like zooey can criticize both Trump and Clinton, and you can only do one…and have to ignore a lot to do it that way.
July 13, 2016 at 1:05 pm in reply to: mayors speaking out about open carry, policing, blacklivesmatter, etc. #48631znModeratorDallas mayor: Our police officers died for Black Lives Matter movement
Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings on Tuesday dismissed former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani’s comments about Black Lives Matter, saying that the five fallen officers from the Dallas police ambush died fighting for the movement.
Appearing on CBS’ “Face the Nation” Sunday, Giuliani said Black Lives Matter was “inherently racist.”
“Our police officers died for Black Lives Matter movement,” Rawlings told “CBS This Morning” on Tuesday. “We were protecting those individuals. That is not a racist organization. They’re trying to do better, but I ask everybody to start at the level playing ground that there are police are there to serve them and to serve everyone.”
Dickerson reacts to Giuliani calling Black Lives Matter “inherently racist”
Play VIDEO
Dickerson reacts to Giuliani calling Black Lives Matter “inherently racist”
Rawlings also said President Obama had reached out to him and he disagreed with some law enforcement officials who said that the president had not been supportive enough.“He’s told me that the words that come out of leaders are important and we’ve got to always believe we can do better,” Rawlings said. “But it’s got to start with our self-esteem as a police force and understand 99 percent of what they do is what we want and that we’re proud of them. Sometimes, people hear what they want to hear in those conversations.”
Rawlings also described Dallas Police Chief David Brown — who likened police officers to superheroes at a vigil for the five fallen Dallas officers Monday — as one of the “heroes we need,” after he called for black protesters to become “part of the solution, serve your communities” by joining the police force.
“Look, we can dissent without demonizing and I think we’ve demonized our police for too long and we have to stop that. We will always get better but we have to salute them because as we’ve seen, they do die for us,” Rawlings said.
The mayor also said that he hoped if there was anything that came out of the officers’ deaths, it will be drawing Dallas closer to a vision of a “strong and safety city.”
znModeratorThough, perhaps the biggest of them all is why the White Walkers are taking so long to move south? Did they sign a special contract with HBO on the side? Hold back for five, six years, and we promise to give you your own series — that kind of thing?
That one I can answer! The Walkers come with winter.
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znModeratorBefore killing Alton Sterling, Baton Rouge police had a history of brutality complaints
Jarvis DeBerry, NOLA.com | The Times-Picayune By Jarvis DeBerry, NOLA.com | The Times-Picayune
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/07/baton_rouge_police_brutality.html
Alton Sterling was selling CDs outside a Baton Rouge convenience store early Tuesday morning when the police responded to a 911 call that Sterling had threatened the 911 caller with a gun. That’s sufficient reason for the police to come to the scene, but – just in case this needs to be said – that’s not sufficient reason for the police to kill him.
The Baton Rouge Police Department – like so many other departments across the country – is notorious for its brutal treatment of black people. And the confrontation that ensued between Sterling and Officers Blane Salamoni and Howie Lake II should be discussed within its proper context. The Baton Rouge Police Department has a history of brutality against black people.
Many law enforcement officials came to Louisiana immediately after Hurricane Katrina to provide reinforcements, and one state trooper from Michigan said Baton Rouge police attempted to thank him for his help by letting him “beat down” a prisoner. A trooper from New Mexico wrote a letter to the Baton Rouge police expressing the concerns of seven New Mexico troopers and five Michigan troopers that Baton Rouge police were engaging in racially motivated enforcement, that they were physically abusing prisoners and the public and that they were stopping, questioning and searching people without any legal justification.
In case you weren’t paying attention, I’ll repeat it: The people accusing Baton Rouge police of brutality and racism were other law enforcement officials. And, yet, the general response from Baton Rouge was that those outside officers didn’t know what they were talking about. An attorney for the Baton Rouge police union said all the stops the outside troopers criticized were legal. Baton Rouge Mayor Kip Holden, a black man, said that he had heard of looting in New Orleans and was determined not to have any such thing in Baton Rouge.
The visiting troopers say Baton Rouge police told them that they were under orders to be so hard on New Orleans evacuees that they’d decide against settling in Baton Rouge.
As if.
So that’s what we’re dealing with: a police department whose behavior worried other law enforcement officials and whose leadership has been more defensive than responsive to the claims of racist policing.
But the bad reports aren’t confined to the time around Hurricane Katrina. In 2014, a 15-year-veteran of the force resigned after a series of racist text messages were attributed to him. Michael Elsbury, who routinely patrolled an area around Southern University, resigned as the department was looking into text messages that called black people monkeys (and worse) and expressed pleasure “in arresting those thugs with their saggy pants.”
In April 2016 we saw a video of a 22-year veteran of the Baton Rouge force repeatedly punching a teenager in the back of the head as other officers held the teenager on the ground.
So let’s not look at Sterling’s death as an isolated incident.
The police reportedly scuffled with Sterling, held him down and fired multiple shots at him, killing him. Their body cameras didn’t’ record everything that happened because, officials say, they fell off as the officers struggled with Sterling.
The video recorded by a bystander has sickened people across the country.
Sterling was 37 years old. He joins a long list of black people whose killings at the hands of police seems unnecessary.
We should all be thankful that Baton Rouge police aren’t going to be investigating the actions of Baton Rouge police. (Like they investigated themselves and found themselves innocent of racism and brutality when outside officers who were deployed after Katrina expressed horror at what they saw.) On Wednesday, FBI New Orleans division spokesman Craig Betbeze said that federal officials will “conduct a fair, thorough and impartial investigation” of what happened outside the Triple S Mart Tuesday morning.
When the Department of Justice looked into Ferguson, Mo., they decided against charges for Darren Wilson, the police officer who killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown. At the same time, the Justice Department described a police force that blatantly and repeatedly harassed black people and put them in jail for made up reasons.
Who knows what the feds will say about Sterling’s death? But if investigators thought the whole Ferguson department was rotten, they’re likely to reach a similar conclusion about the department in Baton Rouge.
znModeratorCongressmen Garret Graves and Cedric Richmond introduce bill to address Sterling shooting
BY MARK BALLARD | THE ADVOCATE
In the wake of last week’s police shooting of Alton Sterling, the two congressmen representing Baton Rouge will introduce legislation Wednesday to provide police with training on de-escalating incidents and help law enforcement get nonlethal weapons.
Sterling, a 37-year-old black man, was killed by Baton Rouge police in a convenience store parking lot on July 5 following a brief confrontation. Since his death, which was caught on graphic video, there have been several days of protests throughout the city that have led to nearly 200 arrests.
The two congressmen, one a white Republican, the other a black Democrat, said it is important to find some way to address the growing violence and the divide between law enforcement and many members of the public. Their bill won’t tackle all the issues, but it’s way to get started quickly.
They plan to introduce the legislation first thing Wednesday morning in the U.S. House of Representatives. The measure likely will be referred to the House Judiciary Committee.
“It is important that we respond now and show that we get it,” said U.S. Rep. Cedric Richmond, a New Orleans Democrat who represents the north Baton Rouge neighborhood where the shooting occurred.
“We don’t think this is the end-all. But we think that starting to look at this research is a very good start,” he said in an interview with The Advocate late Tuesday.
“Congressman Richmond and I are trying to come up with some solutions, at least in the interim, ” said U.S. Rep. Garret Graves, R-Baton Rouge, who lives about two miles from where the shooting took place.
After the rain cleared Monday evening, about 700 people showed up at Parc Sans Souci in down…
The bill would establish a new office within the U.S. Department of Justice to review, develop and deploy nonlethal technology, Graves said in an interview with The Advocate late Tuesday. It would also provide funds for training police around the country on de-escalation techniques.The new Justice Department office would look at technology being developed by the military and at the Office of Homeland Security, then try to refine those weapons for law enforcement. Additionally, it would look to developing new technologies, Graves said.
Richmond added, “Is there anything between a Taser and lethal force? We’re the country that put a man on the moon. If we put the incentives out there, someone will develop it.”
Graves said the bill would authorize $150 million of spending in the first year, then $100 million for the next three years and $125 million in the fifth year. The new spending is offset against existing funding so that it doesn’t create new taxpayer liabilities, he added.
The office also would facilitate training of de-escalation techniques for law enforcement around the country.
One of the main complaints among Baton Rouge protesters is that interactions between police officers, whose jobs are stressful and inherently dangerous, and some members of the public, particularly young, African-American males, often become overly aggressive and lead to irreversible results. The training would help officers develop skills and techniques that would better handle anger-provoking situations.
Graves said the goal is to “give law enforcement more tools and try eliminate or decrease these incidents where you have these outcomes like we saw recently in Baton Rouge or other places.”
“It was important for Garret and I to do something early and to demonstrate that we can cross party lines to do something,” Richmond said, adding they are hopeful this legislative would set the tone for future discussions of a very complex issue. “We are in for a long, hot violent summer, if we don’t take this seriously.”
znModeratorShould Trump warrant it he’ll get it too. Waiting on the VP pick.
See? Partisan.
That’s how everyone is going to see those comments.
Not “truth giver is among us.”
But, “oh yeah…the Trump guy.”
znModeratorWell, his options were to 1) do nothing, 2) run with Stein, 3) endorse Hillary.
None of those are good options, but #1 accomplishes nothing but makes him appear spineless,
No it doesn’t. It would show he stands on principle. But he doesn’t. He supports Hildabeast like a typical political hack.
He IS standing on principle.
You just don’t like what that principle IS.
You mean he now believes Hildabeast has the judgement to be president?
He now believes she is progressive while being owned by Wall Street?
He now believes she won’t support the TPP?Give it up he’s a hack.
Well, I doubt anyone here is going to take it seriously if you attack Sanders’s character and then actually defend Trump’s. Naturally, people just see both judgments as partisan. Because…duh.
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znModeratorznModerator—
I don’t like the way this guy writes this but still, it’s a view you see out there.===
4 ways Bernie Sanders changed the Democratic Party
Let’s all give a standing ovation to the gentleman from Vermont. While some have criticized him for prolonging the Democratic primary process and slowing down Hillary Clinton’s inevitable title as the Democratic nominee for president, he still does deserve our praise. Once a little-known senator from one of the smallest states in the union, Bernie Sanders (Vt.) is now a household name and the starter of a political revolution of epic proportions.
What Sanders has done to the Democratic Party and our nation is quite remarkable. Through rally speeches, simple messaging and bold ideas, he has been able to galvanize an entire generation and brought millions into a political process that was once just limited to the older party faithful.
As Sanders now prepares to exit the race after running an impressive campaign, here are four marks he has left on the party and our nation:1. Pressured the Democratic Party to support the middle and working classes.
One of Sanders’s key issues has been his rigorous messaging for the betterment of the middle class. With proposals such as a $15 minimum wage, the Vermont senator has turned the heads of millions of people in the country working long hours and struggling to make ends meet. The bottom line is that the shrinking middle class is an undeniable reality and one that has not gone unnoticed by the American people.
Sanders provided a strong and impactful voice for the middle class and has empowered millions of working-class Americans to become politically involved. This is something that Clinton and future Democratic candidates will need to address in order to capture what can be now called the “Sanders coalition.”
2. Forced the Democratic Party to address the issue of money in politics.
The past series of Democratic candidates have all been guilty of accepting huge sums of money from undisclosed donors. While the controversial aspect of this uncomfortable truth has been largely unnoticed by the American people, it is yet another issue that Sanders brought to the forefront of his campaign as he relentlessly attacked the corruption brought on by Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.
Although Sanders’s opposition criticized him for being repetitive on this issue, money in politics is a legitimate concern of the American people. By showing the country that a candidate can be truly supported by the people, Sanders has forced the Democratic leaders, party faithful and elite fundraisers to realize that there is such as thing as too much “big money” in our politics.
3. Made the Democratic Party the party for millennials (to a certain extent).
Throughout his entire campaign, the 74-year-old Vermont senator won by a landslide when it came to voters under the age of 35. This is simply due to his out-of-the-box thinking and his bombastic policy proposals, such as calling for free college tuition regardless of socioeconomic status, Medicare for all and advocating for stiffer Wall Street regulations. These messages resonate deeply with young voters and were key points utilized by the candidate to spark what some have called a “political revolution.”
While some have shunned Sanders’s proposals as far-fetched, millennials have grasped onto them as a way to level the playing field and make our nation better for generations to come. Sanders’s appeal to millennials may actually help the party if it makes the bold choice to listen to these voters and their concerns. If the Democratic Party makes the decision to not to listen to these voters, they could lose an entire generation of voters to apathy. Now is the time for the party infrastructure to reflect the voters it so desperately depends on to win.
4. Upended the Democratic Party’s status quo.
Sanders has set a new standard for the type of candidate that many liberal voters seek. Like presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump, Sanders saw much of his success from his attacks on establishment Washington politicians. Although he was not able to capture enough votes to win the nomination, Sanders’s anti-establishment messaging and attacks on the money-related corruption in Washington has set a new precedent for the Democratic party.
Whether you are looking at the massive crowds he gathered at his rallies, or the millions of votes he won throughout the primaries, it cannot be denied that Sanders has created a coalition of voters looking to challenge the status quo and fight for serious fundamental change in the Democratic Party. The fact that his millions of supporters stood by him until the very end — many refusing to switch to the Clinton camp — is clear evidence that the Democratic Party will need to make some adjustments to appeal to Sanders’s following.
Putting aside the historical significance of this election with respect to Hillary Clinton’s accomplishments, as well as the less fortunate reality of Donald Trump’s success, this election will be looked upon as a time of political revolution because of the amazingly impressive work of a 74-year-old senator from Vermont.
znModeratorThis was posted elsewhere by a liberal/pro-Hillary (ie. non-leftist) friend of mine.
That’s a voice I just wanted to add to the conversation.
==
off the net from Ronald Schmidt
Political parties are diverse and so they’re hard to sum up; but Democrats and Republicans are opposed on voting rights, marital equality, bodily autonomy, immigrant rights, and the first, second, fourth, fifth, and fourteenth amendments. If the issues you care about most aren’t in that list, then Thank You, very much, for continuing to insist on your representation! But *please*, for the sake of the millions of people whose lives literally depend on what I mentioned above, don’t say that there is “no difference” between the parties.
znModeratorI’ve now completed the first two seasons, and am well into Season Three. The ability to watch back to back episodes is addictive — and really bad for my time management.
Just finished an episode with one of the best dialogues between Littlefinger and Varys. Video of scene follows. Trigger warning, just in case: One of the images especially is very graphic and unsettling:
For those who don’t know, Varys (no hair) and Littlefinger aka Baelish (mustache) are members of the council advising the king, who is a young monster. Both Varys and Baelish employ spies and informants. What Baelish reveals here is that the young monster king wanted to use his new crossbow on a whore…that’s the “daring” thing being referred to…and the whore Baelish supplies is a spy in the service of Varys. That’s a deliberate move on Baelish’s part. Basically, Baelish is taunting Varys with this revelation, saying, see this time I outmaneuvered you.
July 12, 2016 at 11:31 pm in reply to: mayors speaking out about open carry, policing, blacklivesmatter, etc. #48604znModeratorBill de Blasio: Black Lives Matter changed discussion ‘for the better’
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/politics/bill-de-blasio-chirlane-mccray-black-lives-matter/
Washington (CNN)New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said Monday that the Black Lives Matter movement has changed the discussion on race in the United States “for the better.”
“I think that movement, just the very phrase ‘Black Lives Matter’ has changed the national discussion,” he told CNN’s Poppy Harlow on “New Day.” “Now, as with any movement, there are some people that I don’t agree with. But I have to tell you, they’ve changed the national discussion for the better.”
He appeared alongside his wife, Chirlane McCray, who said Black Lives Matter has encouraged a healthy discussion on race relations.
In Poland, Obama confronts a legacy reality check
“Black Lives Matter is a force for good. It’s about peaceful protest. It’s about shining a light on the problems we have in race relations across this country. We’ve had a history of it,” she said. “And it has not gone away, but we haven’t had enough positive action taken on making change and I am very encouraged by the Black Lives Matter movement. I think this is such a force for good.”
De Blasio said he believes the way to fix problems with police across the country are through retraining, helping law enforcement realize there’s “implicit bias” and work to get the bias “out of our systems.”
“I think all of us in ‘white America’ have to understand better that young men of color live in fear all of the time,” he said, adding, “White America’ doesn’t understand the extent of the problem … I actually think ‘white America’ will participate in that change.”July 12, 2016 at 10:03 pm in reply to: "One of the cops under my command is a young Asian officer" #48599znModeratorOf course the person in question was racist. Do you think either the black or asian policemen didn’t already know that? Of course not. The act itself of refusing assistance was an asshole move. Therefore I did state it accurately.
Where did anyone say anything about “refusing assistance”? That’s not in the article.
And my point was, if you acknowledge the real problem—saying RACISTS are everywhere, not assholes are everywhere—then it looks different. It’s less of a cover up to put it that way. Because after a while you eventually have to recognize, the racists have no excuse and ought to change…being racist is on them. Recognizing that means we move away from the position of being white while telling minorities the “proper” way to handle racism when that’s simple arrogance…we don’t encounter racism like that. So who are we to tell anyone how to handle it.
..
July 12, 2016 at 9:41 pm in reply to: mayors speaking out about open carry, policing, blacklivesmatter, etc. #48596znModerator
‘Jackass remarks’: Minneapolis mayor slams police union official over WNBA protestA day after a Minnesota police union chief voiced strong support for four off-duty officers who quit rather than provide security for a WNBA team that demonstrated its feelings about three high-profile incidents that resulted in deaths last week, the mayor of Minneapolis slammed his comments as “jackass remarks.” Mayor Betsy Hodges did not mince any words Tuesday in distancing herself from what Lt. Bob Kroll had said.
[Off-duty cops quit security for WNBA game after players wear Black Lives Matter shirts]
On Monday, Kroll, the president of the Minneapolis Police Federation, praised the officers for walking off the job after Minnesota Lynx players wore shirts bearing the message, “Change Starts With Us — Justice and Accountability,” plus the names of two black men killed by cops in separate incidents last week, one in Minnesota, the logo of the Dallas Police Department and the phrase, “Black Lives Matter.” The players also offered remarks before a home game Saturday condemning both “racial profiling” and “violence against the men and women who serve on our police force.”
Kroll commended the officers for quitting and suggested their colleagues might also refuse to work Lynx games in the future. He also took a swipe at the attendance of the team, which won last year’s WNBA title and has been the champion in three of the past five seasons, saying, “They only have four officers working the event because the Lynx have such a pathetic draw.”
That had Hodges taking to social media to blast Kroll’s comments. In a note posted to on her Twitter and Facebook accounts, the mayor said, “Bob Kroll’s remarks about the Lynx are jackass remarks. Let me be clear: Labor leadership inherently does not speak on behalf of management. Bob Kroll sure as hell doesn’t speak for me about the Lynx or about anything else.”
The Minneapolis police chief, Janee Harteau, also issued a statement Tuesday, saying, “Although these officers were working on behalf of the Lynx, when wearing a Minneapolis Police uniform I expect all officers to adhere to our core values and to honor their oath of office. Walking off the job and defaulting on their contractual obligation to provide a service to the Lynx does not conform to the expectations held by the public for the uniform these officers wear.”
“While I do not condone the actions of the officers, I realize how every member of law enforcement throughout this country, including myself, is feeling right now,” Harteau added. “Everyone is hurting and we all need to find a way to come together. … I believe every cop wants what every American wants: a safe place to live. We are all in this together, and in the days and weeks ahead, I’m hopeful that common goal will guide the work that leads us to a better place.”
[Browns’ Isaiah Crowell apologizes for posting image of cop getting throat cut]
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Kroll, in his comments Monday, chided the Lynx players for furthering some “false narratives” about incidents of police officers killing black people. “Rushing to judgment before the facts are in is unwarranted and reckless,” he said.“While our players message mourned the loss of life due to last week’s shootings, we respect the right of those individual officers to express their own beliefs in their own way,” the Lynx said in a statement released Tuesday. “At no time was the safety of our game in question as Target Center staffs extra personnel for each and every game. The Lynx and the entire WNBA have been saddened by the recent shootings in Dallas, Baton Rouge, and St. Paul. We continue to urge a constructive discussion about the issues raised by these tragedies.”
Other WNBA teams that publicly reacted to the killings last week included the New York Liberty, whose players wore shirts with “#BlackLivesMatter” and “#Dallas5″ on the fronts before a game Sunday, and the Los Angeles Sparks, which showed the phrase, “All Lives Matter,” on arena video screens during a game Sunday. In 2014, several NBA stars, including LeBron James, wore pre-game shirts with the phrase, “I can’t breathe,” to protest the killing of a black man by New York police.
Lynx players did not wear the shirts before a game in San Antonio Tuesday, and a spokesperson for the team said that the players had no plans to wear them in the future.
znModerator
znModeratorGM Les Snead on the State of the Rams –Audio
Rams GM Les Snead discusses the state of the Rams & his impressions of Goff. Plus, Snead explains how they plan to execute Gurley’s running game & Bailey’s role with the team. He appeared on ESPN LA-710
znModeratorI think that statement ignores the context. That context being…the Universe is like…an ocean… and human knowledge is like a drop of water.
Well (as you know) one thing with that is, the unknown etc. can be “filled in” as much by our wishes, fears, and hopes as by any potential truths. So it could just be that as we stare into the unknown, we are just using it as a mirror for our own psyches as anything else.
Johnny Caspar: It’s gettin’ so a businessman can’t expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can’t trust a fix, what can you trust? For a good return, you gotta go bettin’ on chance – and then you’re back with anarchy, right back in the jungle.
znModeratorWell, to be clear I understand that fantasy/sci-fi/horror represent three different genres but that doesn’t mean they don’t have things in common. One of those things they have in common is that they are often story driven as opposed to character driven. The authors of all three of those genres also use words strung together in sentence form according to the rules of a given language to convey the meaning of the stories. All three genres are also written by authors that are human and they are often but not always given money in exchange for their writings. Actually, when you think of it there really is very little difference between them.
Well except the things you describe in terms of what they have in common defines an umbrella that also includes tv commercials and comic strips, among other things.
It’s tricky but there are differences.
Just for convenience sake the wiki will do on this.
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wiki
Fantasy is a genre of fiction that uses magic or other supernatural elements as a main plot element, theme, or setting. Many works within the genre take place in imaginary worlds where magic and magical creatures are common. Fantasy is generally distinguished from the genres of science fiction and horror by the expectation that it steers clear of scientific and deliberately shocking themes, respectively, though there is a great deal of overlap among the three, all of which are subgenres of speculative fiction. Essentially, fantasy follows rules of its own making, allowing magic and other fantastic devices to be used and still be internally cohesive. The history of modern fantasy literature is usually said to begin with George MacDonald, the Scottish author of such novels as The Princess and the Goblin and Phantastes (1858), the latter of which is widely considered to be the first fantasy novel ever written for adults.
In popular culture, the fantasy genre is predominantly of the medievalist form.
The Gothic tradition blossomed into the genre modern readers call horror literature in the 19th century. Horror is a genre of fiction which is intended to, or has the capacity to frighten, scare, disgust, or startle their readers or viewers by inducing feelings of horror and terror. In horror, these are not just episodic elements of the work, but the work’s central, coherent purpose and the defining characteristic of its overall narrative. Horror can often, but does not have to, include the supernatural.
znModeratorFixed
znModeratorPoe wrote character driven stuff, IMO.
Also–Peter Straub is a lot like King in that regard.
You;re basically evoking 3 different genres.
Poe is one thing. He did not write fantasy in the way we understand that term from the works of Tolkien and Martin.
Straub is horror. Different thing. That’s #3. (Naming what Poe does is more tricky, though it is doable. But it’s better to just say “Poe” and steer clear of the nuances.)
King ranges widely and has written both horror and fantasy.
It is true that those genres influence one another. And both are influenced, in different ways, by earlier gothic. But they are also quite distinct from one another. Horror is not fantasy and vice versa.
In terms of character driven works in fantasy, that would include Martin. Arguably he was actually making up for a deficiency he saw in Tolkien.
Straub is just horror? Shadowland? The Talisman? He may be mostly horror but he has dabbled in fantasy horror. But that misses the point.
Nittany said “horror” and you didn’t yell at him. I knew he was your favorite. I knew it.
Yeah point taken about Straub.
On Nittany…I see no differences between you outlanders.
You’re all mormons to me.
Or is that amysh.
Whatever.
znModerator—————–
Oh yeah, well if Shakespeare did a movie trilogy today,
it’d be largely ignored.w
vHmm. You do know that Shakespeare has more movies to his credit than anyone else in the world?
Yeah yeah yeah.
So where’s the trilogy?
I notice you dodged that point.
.
znModeratorPoe wrote character driven stuff, IMO.
Also–Peter Straub is a lot like King in that regard.
You;re basically evoking 3 different genres.
Poe is one thing. He did not write fantasy in the way we understand that term from the works of Tolkien and Martin.
Straub is horror. Different thing. That’s #3. (Naming what Poe does is more tricky, though it is doable. But it’s better to just say “Poe” and steer clear of the nuances.)
King ranges widely and has written both horror and fantasy.
It is true that those genres influence one another. And both are influenced, in different ways, by earlier gothic. But they are also quite distinct from one another. Horror is not fantasy and vice versa.
In terms of character driven works in fantasy, that would include Martin. Arguably he was actually making up for a deficiency he saw in Tolkien.
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