Billy_T wrote:

I think you’re making a much more sensible argument than most of those videos you post. Unlike them, in general — with exceptions — you readily admit that Trump and the GOP are also guilty of X, Y and Z . . . and then you zoom out big picture to say that national borders aren’t important. It’s the corruption shared by political actors, the degree of corruption, the quid pro quo of it all, etc. It’s the gangsterism of it all. Their venal “weddings.”

If I read you correctly, that is. Which is a pretty good argument for total repeal and replacement of our current system. I think you and I both want full democracy instead, egalitarian, free from concentrations of wealth and power, and oh so green, clean and sustainable . . .

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Well probly the no.1 voice I’m echoing is Chris Hedges. He sez Trump is a monster, but he aint buying into Russia-gate or Syria-gate. I agree with him. Again, he KNOWS trump is a monster. He’s not saying Trump is not a monster — but he doesnt like the WAY the russia-gate story is being written and told. Too much is being left out. Too much context is left out to make sense of the story. The way the story is being told by the Dem-MSM is merely going to lead to another Hillary/Obama/Goldman-Sachs.

1) Yes Trump is a monstrous-monster.
2) But the MSM reflects the Deep State agenda — and that agenda is not to get at the truth or talk about the truth. (truth being the big picture, context, empire, etc)
3) And without that big-picture-context, any MSM stories about Trump — end up being Propaganda. Add the big-picture-context and then, yes, the stories about Trump might make the bewildered-herd into actual functioning citizens.

I would not have said this about five or six years ago. I would have said something like “a story about Trump is perfectly fine if its narrow and only about Trump”. But now, I see it differently. Now i see that the OMISSION of context leads to idiot-citizens. It just does. The way the MSM tells stories just leads to the idiot-voters voting for Hillary…or Trump…or Obama…or Bush…or Reagan…or…Clinton….

There’s no real, useful, comprehensible ‘truth’ as long as what I’m calling ‘the context’ is being left out. (and its being left out for all the reasons Noam and Herman talked about in Manufacturing Consent)

Among knowledgeable, critical thinkers with high POLITICAL IQs (leftists like you)
these MSM stories can be understood and critiqued and used. But among the bewildered Herd these stories about Russia-gate (and i would argue Syria as well, and a gazillion others) amount to nothing more than deep-state Propaganda.

…ps — and one teeny tiny pet-peeve that annoys the hell out of me. And it points to what I’m talking about in a very small way — WHY does the MSM use the word “Oligarchs” to describe rich russians but not billionaire Americans? Why would that be? They want us to go in search of enemies. They want us to think in terms of Nationalism and borders. They do not want us to think in terms of power. Who has it, and who doesnt.

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Billy_T wrote:

When you get the time, I still would like to hear what you think did happen, during the campaign, with Trump, Russia, and the whole deal. Not about the false narrative you think is being presented. But what you believe actually happened instead.

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Billy, I dont think anything ‘worse’ happened than whats happened with Obama or Clinton or Bush, with regard to…say…Israel. And i dont hear a firestorm from either the Dem-MSM or the Rep-MSM about ‘that’.

Thats not the ‘kind’ of answer you are looking for, I know, but thats how wv-brain looks at this stuff, nowadays.

You noted some of the vids i post almost make it out that Trump is a ‘victim’ — well, i dont think he’s a victim, i think he’s a monster, but i totally ‘get’ the subtext among some radicals that he’s a victim. They are picking up on the fact that the MSMs didnt go after Obama or Bush or Clinton for ‘their’ various collusions with mega-powers. Be they Israel or Mega-toxic-Corporations (I dont see the difference btw, in ‘colluding’ with Russia or colluding with Monsanto or Exxon. See the famous movie ‘Network’ speech — you know the one 🙂

PS — as for the specifics of the Trump and Russia thing — I dunno what happened. I dont think we ever get to know the full extent of these kinds of gangster weddings. I’m sure Trump and his evil henchmen got in bed with all kinds of other National and Corporate gangsters and Oligarchs. But i just dont see what they did as any more harmful than what Obama did getting in bed with Goldman Sachs, etc. I mean you can say the russia thing was “illegal” and the Goldman Sachs thing is all nice and “legal” — but are ‘you’ satisfied with that kind of distinction? 🙂

We are being fucked to death…by…”powerful forces of Nature, Mr Beale” 🙂

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Billy_T wrote:

WV,

Adding a bit more to what I think happened and why:

Trump’s business was massively in debt. Still is. He’s gone bankrupt six or seven times, and was no longer able to borrow from anyone, really, but the Russians. He has a terrible reputation for stiffing his business partners, workers, suppliers, banks, etc.

Putin and his oligarchs are rolling in money. Hundreds of billions. Trump wanted, desperately needed a piece of that. Putin wanted help with sanctions. Also, desperately. It was a “marriage of convenience,” transactional, opportunistic.

So they “colluded” on the election. I think Kushner gave the Russians help with micro-targeting via his Cambridge Analytica, and Russia did the heavy lifting via stealing the emails, flooding the zone with “fake news,” twitter and facebook bots, and endless attempts to game google. Wikileaks, we now know, was directly involved in favor of both Trump and Russia. We have that paper trail. Assange offered direct help to the Trump campaign, and they exchanged emails. Roger Stone had direct connections to Gucifer 2.0 and bragged about it.

Long story short, I think it’s a slam dunk that Trump or his campaign broke our election laws, lied about it, lied about his connections with Russia, got caught, tried to cover it up, and has been extremely busy trying to kill the investigation. Mueller likely has him on several counts.

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Well theres a whole lot there that you are asserting is true or proven. You and i would have to take each assertion one by one, and look at the actual evidence. But I doubt we would end up agreeing because I doubt i would trust your sources.

Plus there’s parts of this that just dont ‘bother’ me. Like Assange favoring Trump over Hillary. I dont care if he did. Its not illegal for him to favor Trump over Hillary. He called them both diseases, btw, as we know. Though, from day one, i suspected he favored Trump. I mean why wouldnt he. He knew Hillary wanted him in prison. He didnt know what Trump would want at the time.

My main point though, is, i dont trust the sources you are relying on, to tell us the facts/truths. Its a big issue for me now. Loss of trust in sources of info.
It changes things for me.

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nittany ram wrote:

For me the priority is removing Trump/Pence from office. So while I agree that it’s important for Americans to be aware of our own interference in elections in other countries, the focus should be on Trump’s collusion with Russia and anything else that makes his removal possible. All other considerations are secondary to that.

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Ok, cool, but i couldnt disagree more 🙂

Trump is driving the biosphere off the cliff at 90 mph.
The Dems would drive the biosphere off the cliff at 75 mph.

I just dont see replacing trump with a dem as a priority.

When we are this-totally-fucked….i dunno what the priority is anymore.

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Ok, how about the ‘context’ and the ‘big picture’. Which is a separate-but-inseparable aspect of this to me. 🙂

Assume for the sake of argument that Trump had connections and deals with Russians that amount to “collusion” or whatever terms you wanna use. OK, assume the worst and assume its all true and even more is true that we dont even know about.

Put it in context.

How does it fit with all the ‘collusion’ America/CIA/NSA/Pentagon/Executive-Branch has done all over the world since, say, the end of World War II ?
Do you see any problem with the MSM discussing Russia-gate without putting it in historical context? IE, telling a story of russia being the bad guys and america being the shining city on the hill?

Second question — Again, assume all the russia-gate stuff is true, for the sake of argument — How is the system USING this issue? In what ways, if any, are the MSM/Dems using this issue?

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I wonder if losing wentz ended up helping the Eagles. I mean…who knows.

Strange year.

I wonder if this will affect Wentz and the eagles locker-room in any way next year.

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What happened to their 2nd round pick? Are they still dealing with the Goff trade-up? Or was that the Watkins trade?

I dont like that mock at all. No LT? Really? Aint gonna happen that way.

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PA Ram wrote:

For us, it’s cheesesteaks and tastykake cupcakes. Those are both Philly things.

I must confess that I’m not a huge cheesesteak fan–at least the way they make them in Philly which involves minute steaks and a cheese whiz option.

I live in a Philly suburb and here in the magical land of Berks County we eat are steak sandwiches with a tomato sauce on top. Delicious. But today–my wife insists we go traditional.

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Im eating cheesecake.

…I ate here a couple times last year. Had the best doughnut I’ve ever eaten. Ever go there?

nittany ram wrote:

Yes, I’ll watch it. I haven’t missed one as long as I can remember. I’m going to a party. The guy who’s throwing it is a friend of mine and a Pats fan, so in deference to our friendship I’ll be silently rooting for the Eagles.

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What if Foles outduels Brady.

What then?

What would it mean?

End times?

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Quinn will be an interesting decision too. Or is he already signed for next year?

Seems like there’s a lot of disagreement over the value of:
Barron, Quinn, Tru, and Watkins.

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