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  • November 22, 2020 at 8:12 pm in reply to: The Queen’s Gambit #124685
    waterfield
    Participant
    Billy_T wrote:

    Loved it too. Very strong performances, especially by the lead, whom I remembered from “The Witch.” Well written, paced, directed. Very compelling.

    The series spurred me to read the novel it was based on, by Walter Tevis. It’s pretty good so far, though a few early scenes made me cringe. Won’t give anything away, except to say I think the TV folks made some wise decisions regarding what to keep and what to leave out.

    Some talk about a second series, but I don’t think it needs that at all. Apparently, Tevis was thinking about writing a sequel before he died.

    Seriously good “peak TV.”

    I have an attraction to strong successful women. Can’t help it. Tayor-Joy not only is weirdly attractive but also flawed in the series. Who wouldn’t be given her natural and adopted mothers. But she is so gifted. I can readily identify with the scene in the restaurant where she initially orders a coke. She then spots someone drinking a Gibson and changes her mind and orders a Gibson with a twist. Been there done that. That’s exactly how easily relapses are-but they do say that they are also part of the recovery.

    • This reply was modified 4 years ago by waterfield.
    November 20, 2020 at 4:11 pm in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124606
    waterfield
    Participant
    zn wrote:
    waterfield wrote:

    1933 Germany

    Except in 33 the bad guys actually won the election. They didn’t try to steal it through bogus ideas about voter fraud.

    That’s my point. Over 70 million people and 90% of those who identify as being republicans actually believe he won the election. Scary times here.

    November 20, 2020 at 2:21 pm in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124602
    waterfield
    Participant

    1933 Germany

    November 18, 2020 at 10:07 pm in reply to: Portland anarchy #124532
    waterfield
    Participant
    wv wrote:

    Did you see this, W ? Different subject, but something you might be interested in:
    Law:https://www.courthousenews.com/justice-department-asserts-unreviewable-discretion-to-kill-us-citizens/

    “…WASHINGTON (CN) — Drawing alarm at the D.C. Circuit, a lawyer for the United States argued Monday that the government has the power to kill its citizens without judicial oversight when state secrets are involved.

    “Do you appreciate how extraordinary that proposition is?” U.S. Circuit Judge Patricia Millett asked Justice Department attorney Bradley Hinshelwood, paraphrasing his claim as giving the government the ability to “unilaterally decide to kill U.S. citizens.”

    The hearing before the federal appeals court came as the government fights to hold off allegations by two journalists who say it wrongly targeted them as terrorists in Syria.

    One of the journalists, U.S. citizen Bilal Abdul Kareem, says his interviews with al-Qaida-linked militants landed him on the U.S. kill list. Just in June and August 2016, Kareem says, the U.S. government targeted him five times, including one drone strike involving a U.S.-made Hellfire missile….see link”

    I don’t think the government’s argument can be taken seriously. What is alarming is that they made it! The States Secrets Privilege is essentially an evidentiary common law adopted by the U.S. Supreme Court in the early 50s. It’s origin and purpose was in litigation where one party requested information held by the government which refused to produce under the notion that to do so would harm national security interests. How that translates to the right to kill someone because state secrets are in play is beyond me. As the article points out the case involved a suit brought by journalists who were wrongly targeted as terrorists in Syria. The government refused to produce documents under the states secrets privilege arguing to do so would do great harm to our national security.

    November 16, 2020 at 11:44 pm in reply to: Portland anarchy #124462
    waterfield
    Participant
    wv wrote:
    waterfield wrote:

    This following article was on the front page of the L.A. Times this morning under the title “Portland anarchists spark backlash”

    “Portland’s anarchists say they support racial justice. Black activists want nothing to do with them….

    ==================

    I have many layers of thoughts/feelings about ‘anarchist’ direct-action campaigns like this. Too many to list.

    …On the one hand, i think most-if-not-all of the young-anarchists have a higher Political-IQ than 90 percent of the American population. I think they understand what capitalism is doing to the nation, and to the biosphere.
    So, they are smart, informed, passionate, critical-thinkers, for the most part.
    (at least the ones who are legit anarchist, and not proud-boy-types doing false-flag games)

    But, being young, and passionate the anarchists are utterly stupid when it comes to strategy, tactics, etc. Many are impatient, and reckless and selfish. And they are young, so there is no getting thru to them.

    And to just shoot from the hip…I have noticed in my life, that Anarchists tend to be giant pains-in-the-Ass. To everyone. Including other Anarchists.

    Switching to another layer….when i put it in a wider context, Corporate-capitalism is causing mass extinctions, fracking poisoning of children, pollution, Climate Change, Mass Incarceration, Ungodly-Inequality which leads to massive suffering and death, Imperialism, Massive Lie-Campaigns, Coups, Torture, etc etc etc.

    So you have THAT on one hand. Meanwhile the LA Times focuses on a small group of anarchists breaking windows.

    That is corporate media. Perfect example of corporate media. What they cover. How they cover it. And what they dont cover.

    w
    v

    Well-the L.A. Times has published many articles about Portland that run the spectrum. So I don’t subscribe to the notion that they “focus on a small group of anarchists breaking windows”. I also don’t accept the idea that the anarchists were simply breaking windows. I don’t live there and was not there at the time but my childhood and long lasting friend lives outside Portland and said it wasn’t just “windows”. Also my son and his family were visiting Portland after picking up my grandson after a ski camp at Mt. Hood. He said also that it was scary and he is not afraid of broken windows.

    As far as anarchists having a higher IQ than 90% of the US population. That’s simply an outburst. Me? I think most “anarchists” love anarchy. Doesn’t matter what the issue is. They love causing unrest. Not because of political issues. They simply love causing unrest. These are not college post grads going back to coffee houses and discussing Marx and Keynesian economics. No these are simple souls saying “hey look at me. Rage against the machine. You don’t like it-fuck you . Ha,Ha,Ha !” That’s my outburst.

    November 13, 2020 at 6:23 pm in reply to: Waterfield, about your “me first” question . . . #124273
    waterfield
    Participant
    Billy_T wrote:

    To me, it’s not a puzzle at all. No nation has embraced the capitalist ethos so violently, with so little questioning, or so many absurd, fairy tale assumptions. No nation has ever been so conditioned to buy into all the bullshit that entails, from the top down, with such blind, perversely stubborn faith. All the empty, endlessly broken promises of riches and kingly living that never happen for 99% of the population, out there for all to see, to no avail. We’re still in the rat race all too often for ourselves alone.

    What a monstrously stupid rationale for an economy, much less a life: to organize things around the personal pursuit of personal wealth, instead of fulfilling the needs of all, the common good, and the creation of more and more truly free time.

    Prior to the pandemic, up to the end of 2019, total US income was nearly 20 trillion. If we divided that income by the number of households, every household could live comfortably. More than 140K per. No more hunger, no more poverty, everyone would have more than they needed. But because we have such wild chasms between the haves and the have nots, tens of millions starve here, and billions worldwide.

    We should be ashamed.

    That’s the root of “me first.” Our economic system shouts it to the rooftops, glories in violent selfishness and cut-throat competition, rather than a joyful life, peace and cooperation. Our economic system turns people into things, into means to an end for the few, for their lust for wealth and power, instead of our happiness as a species, instead of (universal) mutual aid and love thy neighbor.

    Can’t have both. Can’t have a system designed to concentrate wealth and power at the top, for the few, and a sharing, giving, loving, selfless society that benefits all. It’s impossible.

    Not sure I have the background to respond to you other than in very simplistic terms. Yes Capitalism by its nature, in theory, affords people the freedom of gathering for themselves at the expense of others. No other political systems gives one as much freedom to do good and do bad. There is no perfect economic system be it capitalism, socialism, or communism. The theory of capitalism , at least as I understand it, is that private ownership allows the development of ideas, the fuel for growth, and without growth, by its nature capitalism will die. So there must be innovation which can be accomplished better with freedom to make both gains and losses at one’s own expense. The problem arises when it becomes totally free without governance because human nature kicks in and the more I get the more I want; the the more I got the more I need prevent others from getting what I got. (I love that sentence precisely because of its grammar)And that leaves others behind-further and further behind. Private ownership simply cannot be unfettered otherwise we reduce ourselves to selfish robots. And I think we’ve been headed that way too long. We seem to care less and less about those less fortunate. Perhaps someday this direction will reverse itself simply because we want it to. Maybe it won’t. I don’t know.

    November 12, 2020 at 11:16 pm in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124247
    waterfield
    Participant
    Billy_T wrote:
    Zooey wrote:
    wv wrote:

    Well, what exactly are Democrats supposed to do? Trump is taking cases to court. Courts will decide them.

    w
    v

    Sirota is arguing that the Democrats should be out there controlling Spin as well. He’s right. They do a very poor job of framing issues. They should be out there using language like “Coup, unAmerican, Democracy” Whatever. Call them out for what they are doing.

    I think they need to do more than just counter the narrative, but that is essential. I think they need to bring counter-suits, alleging voter suppression by the GOP. They can easily show evidence of Trump and GOP efforts to jam up voting via the Postal Service, purging voter rolls, reducing polling places in areas dominated by Dem voters, etc.

    They can’t count on the courts to rule in their favor. The system is far too political and partisan for that.

    Trump and the GOP have shown that reality can be overturned by unified, relentless, unwavering lies. He would have been booted from office already if that hadn’t been surprisingly successful. They created an alternative reality, which means we have a duel.

    If one side doesn’t even show up, the lies and the alternative reality win.

    “They can’t count on the courts to rule in their favor. The system is far too political and partisan for that.”

    The Democrats are winning in court. Meaning they are in court opposing what the Republicans are doing. On another court issue re the ACA-Kavanaugh is agreeing with Roberts that if one part of the Act is unconstitutional (i.e. tax on those who don’t sign up) that doesn’t mean the entire Act is unconstitutional. Hopefully, this is a sign that the US Supreme Court is now quite as politicized as feared. If the Courts did everything the Republicans wanted we would be back in 1933 Germany. (i.e. Judgment at Nuremberg)

    November 11, 2020 at 4:28 pm in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124201
    waterfield
    Participant
    wv wrote:

    Well, what exactly are Democrats supposed to do? Trump is taking cases to court. Courts will decide them.

    w
    v

    I suspect election boards in the contested states are filing briefs in opposition and likely supported by Democrats filing amicus curiae (not a party but friends of the court) briefs-wouldn’t you think ?

    November 11, 2020 at 2:51 pm in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124195
    waterfield
    Participant
    Zooey wrote:

    Well my Twitter feed is ablaze with fear of a Trump coup after Pompeo’s remark.

    Here is David Sirota:

    https://www.dailyposter.com/p/trump-is-staging-a-coup-why-are-dems

    Trump Is Staging A Coup — Why Are Dems Not Sounding The Alarm?
    Republicans are following a clear plan to try to overturn the election results, just like they did in 2000. And once again, Democrats are not sounding a loud enough alarm.

    David Sirota

    The recent HBO film 537 Votes about the Florida 2000 election mess offers one overarching message: Democrats’ refusal to sound a clear alarm about the slow-motion heist in process ultimately let the election be stolen.

    In that debacle, Democrats seemed to think things would break their way with well-honed arguments inside the cloistered confines of the legal system — they never understood how public-facing politics can play a role in what ultimately ended up being a pivotal political brawl outside the courtroom.

    Twenty years later, the lesson of that debacle isn’t being heeded. Donald Trump and his cronies are quite clearly waging a public-facing campaign designed to create the conditions for the Electoral College process to pull off a coup.

    This is a full-scale emergency — and yet the Democratic strategy seems to be to try to pretend it isn’t happening, in hopes that norms win out, even though nothing at all is normal.

    Trump Has A Deliberate Strategy
    In the week since the election, Trump’s and his Republican allies have waged a public campaign to call the election results into question — not just in the courtroom, but in the public’s mind. Their lawsuits and Attorney General William Barr’s recent memo are designed as much to win rulings and initiate prosecutions as they are to generate headlines. Their tweets asserting fraud, and their high-profile promises of financial reward for evidence of fraud are all designed to do the same thing.

    Most ominously of all, Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Arizona are already insinuating the results may be fraudulent, even though they haven’t produced any evidence of widespread fraud.

    Why is public perception so important? Because as Ohio State University law professor Edward Foley shows in a frighteningly prescient 2019 article, legislatures could use the public perception of fraud to try to invoke their constitutional power to ignore their states’ popular votes, reject certified election results and appoint slates of Trump electors.

    In an article that predicted almost exactly what has already happened in Pennsylvania, Foley imagined Trump seeming to be ahead at first, then losing his lead as votes are counted, then making allegations of fraud, setting the stage for this:

    At Trump’s urging, the state’s legislature — where Republicans have majorities in both houses — purports to exercise its authority under Article II of the Constitution to appoint the state’s presidential electors directly. Taking their cue from Trump, both legislative chambers claim that the certified popular vote cannot be trusted because of the blue shift that occurred in overtime. Therefore, the two chambers claim to have the constitutional right to supersede the popular vote and assert direct authority to appoint the state’s presidential electors, so that this appointment is in line with the popular vote tally as it existed on Election Night, which Trump continues to claim is the “true” outcome.

    The state’s Democratic governor refuses to assent to this assertion of authority by the state’s legislature, but the legislature’s two chambers proclaim that the governor’s assent is unnecessary. They cite early historical practices in which state legislatures appointed presidential electors without any involvement of the state’s governor. They argue that like constitutional amendments, and unlike ordinary legislation, the appointment of presidential electors when undertaken directly by a state legislature is not subject to a gubernatorial veto.

    Foley notes how public-facing politics — outside the cloistered legal arena — could then come into play.

    “It might be too much of a power grab. One would hope that American politics have not become so tribal that a political party is willing to seize power without a plausible basis for doing so rooted in the actual votes of the citizenry,” he writes. “If during the canvass itself, Trump can gain traction with his allegation that the blue shift amounts to fraudulently fabricated ballots — along the lines of his 2018 tweet about Florida — then it becomes more politically tenable to claim that the legislature must step in and appoint the state’s electors directly to reflect the ‘true’ will of the state’s voters.”


    Normalizing The Idea Of A Second Trump Term

    To be sure, pulling this off would be complicated.

    Republicans would have to get not one but many of the five Biden states with GOP legislatures to try to ignore the popular vote.

    Congress would also have a role to play deciding which electors to recognize, which gives the House Democratic majority some leverage.

    And it’s not clear that any of the maneuvers would hold up in court (though let’s remember: the Supreme Court now includes three Republican-appointed justices who worked directly on the Bush v. Gore case that stole the 2000 election for the GOP).

    But this is quite obviously what the GOP is aiming for — and they’ve basically said it out loud. Indeed, Trump’s son has promoted the idea of legislatures overturning the election, and so has Trump’s staunch ally, Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis. Meanwhile, a Republican lawmaker involved in Wisconsin’s new election fraud investigation suggested his state’s popular vote could be ignored.

    This is why we’ve seen Republican officials and policies continue pretending that Trump didn’t lose the election, and presuming that there will be a second Trump term. This isn’t merely infantile behavior or an immature temper tantrum — it is part of a cutthroat plan.

    They are trying to normalize the idea that regardless of how Americans actually voted, a second Trump term is inevitable because state legislatures and Congress will ultimately hand him the Electoral College.

    Where Is Democrats’ Call To Action?
    One big takeaway here should be that in the long-term, the Electoral College has to go — it has now become an even bigger threat to democracy, beyond just routinely throwing elections to the losers of the national popular vote. The system is being weaponized by a Republican Party determined to thwart the will of voters.

    In this particular crisis unfolding right now in the short term, a strong and serious response is needed.

    We do not need silly, self-aggrandizing, money-wasting vanity stunts from grifter groups like the Lincoln Project, who are preparing a campaign to try to make Trump attorneys at Big Law firms feel bad about themselves — as if a vicious pol like Trump can somehow be deprived of ruthless legal representation.

    We need a vociferous public campaign focused on preventing state legislators from feeling empowered to ignore their own voters. And such a campaign could be successful because at least some of these states’ legislatures are only narrowly controlled by the GOP — meaning they may be sensitive to a future voter backlash in 2022 that could come from their actions to steal a presidential election.

    And yet… instead of sounding the alarm, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris seem to have settled on a “nothing to see here” approach.

    The Biden-Harris campaign has been proceeding as if everything is fine, rolling out some transition team names and announcing that Biden has talked to some world leaders. Biden’s comments today about the election were even more sedated and anodyne than Al Gore back during the 2000 Florida recount. The most he could muster was an assertion that the GOP’s behavior is embarrassing and might hurt Trump’s legacy — as if this is a West Wing episode inanely presuming that any single Republican elected official in the country cares about such things.

    Zooey: this might help calm your nerves-it did for me-for at least a few minutes. She is a Boston U prof, historian, and general political/psychology background. All facts-no hype.

    https://www.facebook.com/heathercoxrichardson/videos/379595136792840/

    November 11, 2020 at 1:47 pm in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124196
    waterfield
    Participant
    InvaderRam wrote:

    i’ll be honest. some of you guys got me a little shook. i mean this couldn’t possibly happen could it? could trump turn this country into a dictatorship? that would have to be the mother of all hail marys.

    This might help calm our nerves. It did for me -for at least 5 min. She is a prof. of history at Boston U. and specializes in historian views of politics with a psych. background. No hype -just all facts. Professor Heather Cox Richardson

    https://www.facebook.com/heathercoxrichardson/videos/379595136792840/

    November 11, 2020 at 1:00 am in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124176
    waterfield
    Participant
    InvaderRam wrote:

    i’ll be honest. some of you guys got me a little shook. i mean this couldn’t possibly happen could it? could trump turn this country into a dictatorship? that would have to be the mother of all hail marys.[/quote

    1933-Germany

    November 10, 2020 at 6:20 pm in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124161
    waterfield
    Participant

    One last note on Bush v Gore: If I recall the decision specifically stated that the case was limited to the particular facts of that case meaning it did not carry precedent.

    November 10, 2020 at 6:06 pm in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124160
    waterfield
    Participant
    Zooey wrote:

    the task is enormous, though. They have to have some kind of legal pretext to throw out votes, and it has to pass at least 2 courts, a state court, and the SCOTUS. At least, I think that’s how it works. They really cannot just say, “These ballots were mailed, so they should be thrown out.” That just won’t fly.

    It will be state by state and decided by the highest court in each state-not the US Supreme Ct. Each state has it’s own constitution and the final determinations of any alleged violation of state election laws are not reviewable by the US Supreme Ct. unless the state’s election procedure has violated federal law or the US Constitution. Bush v Gore was a very unusual circumstance and arguably the single worst decision ever made by the Court with separate opinions by each jurist sitting. How the court found a US federal violation either by federal statute or the Constitution is what baffles scholars today. The order by the US Supreme Court that Florida Supreme Court’s decision to keep counting Florida votes must stop was based on the simple notion that the USSC had jurisdiction because the founders had provided for each state to make its own election laws. How circular is that ? Most Constitutional scholars believe the matter should have ended with the Florida Supreme Court.

    I’m sure there is a far better explanation re Bush v Gore. All I know is that most constitutional lawyers-at least the ones I drink with-don’t believe the US Supreme Court has jurisdiction to hear the issues being raised in these Trump lawsuits alleging voter fraud. The Republicans can’t argue voter fraud in Pennsylvania is against federal law-its against Pennsylvania’s election laws. So it is only about overturning the state’s election and not the entire election. Its a state by state jurisdiction.
    c

    November 10, 2020 at 3:59 am in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124124
    waterfield
    Participant
    zn wrote:

    And there is no Congress that would sanction disavowing direct elections.

    I would hope and pray that you are right but not this Congress. They (Republicans) can’t do that because they are now in charge and looking to 2024 and are aware that over 40 million of their voters support whatever Trump will do. They won’t do anything to lose support of those voters. If you were right there would be a groundswell of Republicans in the Congress who would right now be disavowing Trump’s refusal to accept the “direct election”. So far nothing. That is because of 2024 .

    What’s is really scary to me is that 57 % of white Americans-not just men-voted that Trump continue in power. Why ? I don’t think we can put all this on corporations. There is something going on that I can’t put my finger on. Is it the increase in overt racism? If so how did we elect Obama? Are the majority of white Americans truly in fear of our changing demography? Are the majority of white Americans truly afraid that Biden is a communist? Do the majority of white Americans truly believe that COVID is a hoax and we don’t have to take precautions? Do the majority of white Americans truly believe that Trump is ordained from God to change abortion laws?

    I appreciate your knowledge of these issues and would like your input as to each of my questions. Because I have no answers.

    • This reply was modified 4 years ago by waterfield.
    November 10, 2020 at 1:57 am in reply to: Biden-anyone believe he can take office? #124119
    waterfield
    Participant
    zn wrote:

    Well, to be honest, it doesn’t matter that he commands the military. I can’t think of any possible conditions under which the military would act to maintain him in office. If anything they would forcibly remove him. He is no longer president after a certain date and at that point Biden commands the military. And he will have no legal grounds to claim the election is void, no matter what he thinks of the fairness of the vote. His presidency expires. Removing him is easy–at a certain point he just no longer has the right to occupy office, or the white house, or to expect to be able to command the federal government.

    Keep in mind the only “official” date I know is 12/14/20 when the electoral college actually meets and cast the necessary votes. Trump can do a lot of damage to interfere with that. Not all states are under the same legal mandate to cast their votes as we assume. 70 days can give him time to do whatever he wants knowing he’s got a Republican congress in his hands. Moreover, over 40 million people do not support a transition of power. He has cards to play including the prospect of a civil war. The lawsuits seeking emergency relief are only his first step. My fear is we are in danger of losing a peaceful transition unless we exercise the 25th amendment now and to do that we need the Congress which we don’t have at this time. This could end up, god forbid, in invalidating any and all elections. We then have a true dictatorship-which may have been his goal all along.

    November 9, 2020 at 8:58 pm in reply to: A little up beat from the cynicism #124109
    waterfield
    Participant
    waterfield wrote:

    Democrats can dance !!

    One thing I like about Kamala is she has so much joy. I compare her to Spence and its laughable.

    November 9, 2020 at 8:56 pm in reply to: bad stuff #124108
    waterfield
    Participant

    In some ways the horrific times for blacks then explains that how in a relatively short period of time (today) the remnants of that prejudice still exist. And its likely to continue albeit declining but slower than it should. Maybe the grandkids of our young adults will be able to live in a relative racist free society. But not in my lifetime or yours.

    November 9, 2020 at 6:05 pm in reply to: A little up beat from the cynicism #124102
    waterfield
    Participant
    wv wrote:

    My sister, wv-ewe, still cannot relax. The Monster-Trump cant die, she says. He’s too evil.

    She told me, she’s seen too many Monster movies where in the last scene, the monster’s hand pushes up through grave to the surface…

    No dancing for her. She’s…waiting. For the hand.

    w
    v

    I’m like WV-ewe. But I’m dancing. I do look around just to see if the hand is near. Like the last scene in Deliverance when the hand pops out of the water.

    November 9, 2020 at 4:37 pm in reply to: A little up beat from the cynicism #124098
    waterfield
    Participant

    Democrats can dance !!

    November 9, 2020 at 1:06 am in reply to: Election Day(s) #124073
    waterfield
    Participant

    I highly recommend AOC’s interview with Jake Tapper of CNN. She acknowledges the fact that candidates for a House seat that supported Medicare for All won but she also recognizes the House lost power in the House to Republicans. At no time, whether you want to be cynical and call it “pragmatism” , or something worse, did she ever promote the notion that Biden is really a Republican. She acted like a smart adult and I felt profound respect for her. That is precisely how a progressive movement can have teeth and gather even more support that what they have now. She’s smart. She knows that the door is now open for a younger and more progressive movement to become much larger players in the democratic party-something that never would have happened had we seen another 4 years of Trump. I like her.

    November 9, 2020 at 12:16 am in reply to: Election Day(s) #124072
    waterfield
    Participant

    To Wv: If Biden is just another centrist Republican like you claim Obama and Clinton are- tell me why do 40 million plus people think he’s a communist. I have yet to find a Republican communist in our recent history. What pisses me off is the following: I saw an interview today with AOC on CNN. She pleaded with progressives and moderate DEMOCRATES to come together and join to accomplish what is best for America. By calling Biden a moderate REPUBLICAN is no different than calling him a communist. Moreover, it is precisely what AOC is advocating against and will only further the difference within the DEMOCRATS. . Biden is not or now or ever has been a liberal, moderate, or right wing REPUBLICAN. To say that he belongs in that group is why people don’t trust progressives. Simply put, they know better. If you really want a progressive movement that can actually accomplish stuff just listen to AOC and stop fueling the fires that will never allow that.

    November 8, 2020 at 5:24 pm in reply to: Election Day(s) #124052
    waterfield
    Participant
    wv wrote:

    The last few days I’ve been live-streaming ABC News, NBC News and PBS News to follow the election. I wanted to stream Fox but i guess they didnt have a live-stream.

    Anyway, this is the first time Ive actually watched the Corporate-Network-Pundits in many many years. I had forgotten what they are like. It…is…APPALLING how they ALLLLLLLLLLLL sound like David Gergin. He’s the smooth, soothing, civil, moderate-republican from PBS. I mean they ALLLLLLLLLLL push moderate-republican/Dem-Centrist strategies. ALLL of them.

    I had to turn it off. It was physically painful to listen to it.

    My god in heaven. I had forgotten what a propaganda-wasteland TV ‘news’ is.

    There’s a reason we have another Biden in office now.

    w
    v

    Before there can be any real progressive movement in this country they have to let the following sink in: Over 40 million people in this country think Biden is either a socialist or a communist.

    • This reply was modified 4 years ago by waterfield.
    November 8, 2020 at 12:13 am in reply to: Election Day(s) #124015
    waterfield
    Participant
    wv wrote:
    Zooey wrote:

    Well, my “feeds” aren’t any better. Worse, even.

    Everyone gloating.

    And…it’s Joe Fucking Biden we’re gloating about.

    I mean….

    =============
    Really? Geez, we have totally different feeds. I only have a twitter feed, i dont do facebook. But my feed is all about “Guillotining Biden” and such. Then again, I have made it a point to follow Stalinists, Maoists, Leninists, Anarchists, etc.

    They hate Biden more than Trump. If i try to argue Trump is worse, I’m labeled a “Liberal.”

    Tough crowd.

    w
    v

    Not a tough crowd. An ignorant crowd. As AOC said as she worked hard for Biden he is the ONLY choice in this election. So what do the ignorants say to her? I give her a lot of credit to all her energy and courage to support Joe Biden. She is smart-not ignorant. Same with Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA), Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), and Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI). They stood for Biden when it counts. I give them not only credit but also courage for their support. Progressives are the future. The above know this. The others you mentioned don’t care about the future -they care about making a statement no matter the cost.

    November 5, 2020 at 7:12 pm in reply to: Election Day(s) #123904
    waterfield
    Participant

    I’m so fucking stressed! Between losing some very close friends, worrying about Trump winning, arguing with my wife and dog, worried about how half the country can support Trump and they won’t go away no matter who wins, it is not a good time in the Waterfield household.

    November 5, 2020 at 11:58 am in reply to: Election Day(s) #123881
    waterfield
    Participant
    Zooey wrote:

    Mackeyser, I don’t think you have those numbers right. Every site I look at has Biden at 253 (264 now that AZ has been called for JB), including the NYT which shows the ME vote going to Trump (btw…anyone here from ME? WTF, man? I would’ve laid $ on Collins losing).

    The NYT also has a flow chart of all the possible outcomes, and a tie can only be achieved by is if Biden wins GA, and Trump wins all the others. And now that AZ has gone to Biden, a tie is no longer possible.

    I think Mac could very well be right. Right now Trump is leading in each state Biden needs to win to go to the WH. What’s depressing to me is that no matter who wins roughly 1 out of 2 voters have given a thumbs up to the behavior of a man who believes in bullying, lying, racist, zenophobia, misogyny, climate denial, etc. And it is not just angry older white men. Here in blue, blue, liberal California he has drawn more minorities and especially women of color than ever before in any Presidential election year. I have about 5 friends of color-I mean close friends-friends we do stuff with-friends that are there when you need them. 2 of the 5 voted for Trump. How is that even possible. I read a quote in the L.A. Times from a woman an African American contributor. She wrote: “Biden was wrong about Trump being an aberration when he said “It’s not who we are, he said again and again on the campaign trail.’Its not what America is” Wrong. that is exactly who we are as Americans”

    Let that sink in and ask “how did we get there” ? I have my own theory which my wife does not buy-maybe some of you will. I’ll post it separately.

    • This reply was modified 4 years ago by waterfield.
    November 4, 2020 at 1:27 am in reply to: So far this election results tell me #123815
    waterfield
    Participant
    zn wrote:

    The young educate themselves my friend. My daughters are very politically savvy and they did not get what they know from me or my wife–they learn it on their own.

    That is precisely what I mean when I say : The people that should be having children are not and those that shouldn’t be are. I doubt seriously they learned nothing from you and your wife. I know nothing about your relationship with them or your wife’s but IMO that is simply nonsense. They must have unless you are not part of their lives-which I very highly doubt. !

    At bottom is the fact that you and I may be a part of a dying breed. And that makes me sad.

    October 31, 2020 at 8:39 pm in reply to: Biden, Trump, the left, elections… #123650
    waterfield
    Participant

    Mack”

    wv wrote:

    4) #2 needs to be repeated. There has been no fight about Trump’s court appointments. There was no fight to get Obama’s court appointments through.

    OK Mack: tell me this. Just what would you have done when the ONLY weapon available in a Republican controlled Senate is a filibuster-something we no longer have. Ironically, it was the Democrats under the Obama administration that voted to oust the filibuster rule for judicial nominees leaving as an exception the U.S Supreme Court. That one exception was erased when the Republicans took control under Trump. Nevertheless, the Kavanaugh hearing was a good fight notwithstanding the outcome was certain-unless a few Republican senators would see the light.

    October 27, 2020 at 12:32 pm in reply to: Things I don’t understand #123466
    waterfield
    Participant

    I believe that time is coming Billy. Whether it’s structural socialism as our text books read or some other form. As our demographics change the door to exploring more progressive changes keeps getting wider and wider. There are leaks in the dam.

    October 26, 2020 at 7:58 pm in reply to: Things I don’t understand #123424
    waterfield
    Participant
    wv wrote:

    The dum rightwingers actually believe the lie. They actually believe Biden/Hillary/Obama are evil-socialists.

    I guess my real question should be: how can they possibly believe that? I mean is it simply political in that they don’t believe it but are simply repeating what Trump says for effect? Or are these people really that stupid. I can understand if they don’t believe it but will still vote for Trump. But to actually believe he is a communist or socialist -I mean if they only get their news on Fox-no one at Fox even says that.

    October 26, 2020 at 4:47 pm in reply to: Things I don’t understand #123417
    waterfield
    Participant
    zn wrote:
    waterfield wrote:
    zn wrote:
    waterfield wrote:

    Many of my friends, like most here, don’t like Biden because he’s not progressive enough. OTOH several of my Republican friends say stuff like: “Biden? Who wants to live under socialism or communism?”

    Are the any people left who are not so polarized in their views?

    Well if you’re a real progressive, yeah he’s not progressive enough. That’s just a simple fact. I don’t know why that’s “polarized.” Some progressives will not vote for him for that reason, and some make the pragmatic choice and vote for the guy who is just simply not as bad as Trump.

    As for your Republican friends, they are doing what a lot of right-wingers do these days. Living in amazing delusions.

    I wrote “polarized” simply to illustrate how far apart people are these days. 2 people at a bar. One is a progressive and the other is a Republican. Progressive says “I don’t like Biden because he doesn’t believe in

      socialized

    medicine”. Republican responds “I don’t like him either because he’s a

      socialist”.

    Makes no sense-does it. Which is why the two could never have a talk over a beer. Two different planets.

    Yeah it makes sense. Progressives recognize he’s not progressive, and Republicans who see him as the reincarnation of Che Guevara are just blithering on about their delusions. That’s polarized to YOU because you’re doing the “I’m in the middle with the truth” number centrists do. And that’s not even me being critical or snarky. You see polarization with your position being in a “healthy” middle, I see an unprogressive Biden and delusional republicans.

    You are being critical and snarky whether you admit it or not when you claim that my motive is to show only my view is the “healthy” one.

    I’m only trying to point out how silly and ignorant it is for the “right” to argue Biden is a socialist or communist. Progressive must think the opposite and even laugh at such a notion. That is what makes conversations so difficult with Republicans. If that means I think my “position” is the healthiest -well, I guess I can’t help that.

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