What seems like the majority of posters at Democratic Underground hate Bernie. They blame him and the progressives for any of the divisiveness within the party. They do not care that the party voted to keep corporate donations. They are a much more centrist group who only seems to play to the left when it’s against Trump or on most social issues.

A group of progressives actually split to a new board.

This party may be broken beyond repair.

And that’s bad news for the liberals and leftists alike.

The Democratic party is stubborn, hopeless and committed to a corporate agenda at the risk of everything else. They want to “message” differently. I’m not sure they want to “govern” differently. No Democrat should have cast a single vote for ANY Trump cabinet nominee.

But they did.

They don’t want to be an opposition party–they want to be a get-along party who works on the things they can agree on(which really means corporate wealth transfers) and put on their little battles in the other areas.

“Hey–we gave them a fight” and then roll over and play dead.

I WISH they were like the Republicans. This group of losers would NEVER have had the guts to let a Supreme Court nominee sit for 10 months. Never.

They are dying.

Something new has to emerge from this. A true people’s party.

And it probably will.

But in the meantime they will lose elections and the right will get stronger–set up permanent structures to hold a majority forever and do more damage than can ever be undone.

And that’s too bad.

Ozoneranger wrote:

Bernie was\is clueless. I think even to leftists like you. His sole argument was “free stuff,” essentially. Tuition, medical care, school lunches…even cars, maybe? To a kid facing $100k in student loans, I can see his allure. It cost me over $200k to put my daughters through school (tuition, housing, books, etc- they got jobs to pay for food and entertainment) …one public, one private. But that front end cost would have been on the back end in the form of crushing taxes for my household.

That’s the standard right wing talking point on Bernie–and hey–it worked. Of course it isn’t really true but it plays well on the right and to scare some moderates, I suppose. Bernie always offered to show how he would pay for things like “free tuition”. That would have been largely covered, if I remember correctly by a small tax on trades. Now you can argue with his numbers–but his proposal would raise 300 billion dollars and pay for the cost estimated at 75 billion. Again–these were proposals and and details would have to be worked out but at least he HAD some plans unlike Trump who seemed to make broad nebulous proclamations. No one cares what his wealthy tax cuts will actually cost the middle class. Or his border wall. Or for that matter what it costs to keep him secure in three separate residences. Trump gets free stuff because we KNOW he doesn’t pay taxes. But that’s okay somehow.

Bernie wants to use the wealth in this country which mostly sits at the top–to help everyone and not just a few. If that’s clueless–sign me up. It isn’t about taking from the rich–it’s about being fair. This country used to stand for “rising waters lifting all boats. It’s how we built a middle class–which will never happen on its own.

But it comes down to the type of country we want. We do not have to have a middle class. It’s a choice.

Of course some will argue that the way to achieve that is through “trickle down” economics which has never worked. Look at the Republican utopia that is Kansas right now. All those rich tax breaks did not help them. Now Republicans want to raise taxes there.

So, Bernie–clueless? I don’t think so. While he may not have achieved everything he wanted–or been able to do it the way he wanted exactly–he would always keep the people first and would walk away from an idea before it forced people into a lower standard of living.

So anyway–we disagree about Bernie.

I found this link of his proposals and how he would pay for them. It wasn’t with magic fairy dust. Or it wasn’t getting Mexico to pay for our school tuition.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

I wonder how wv is doing. He’s stuck in the heart of Trump country. Hopefully he’s lost himself in a book about exotic birds or the Mothman or in some French film. Between Trump and corporate Dems he’s probably not feeling very politically motivated these days.

One other thought on the Academy Awards this year.

I have zero interest in the nominated films. I believe that the only one I saw was “Hell or High Water” and that was…eh. Okay. Not great.

Oh…and “Arrival” and I already said what I think about that snoozefest.

I can’t remember a year recently where there was just no interest for me at all. I’m actually more interested in the tribute to the dead actors than the films being honored.

For the record…my two favorite films last year:

“The Nice Guys” and “The Jungle Book”.

I hope this year is better.

There is no way that the powers that be will ever let the internet stand as it is today.

This is all going to change to be more controlled.

There is too much power in the hands of ordinary people to let this stand.

They won’t let it stand.

Mackeyser wrote:

Except… he only got stronger… and the corporate soulless sellout fucks on the Dem side had no idea that people actually WERE paying attention to all their…inattention…and what the Dems had done that did actually hurt working people and the poor. And while it was unfortunate that the alternative was a completely malignant narcissistic shitbag, Trump hadn’t been at the epicenter of a system that had been openly and belligerently screwing them while lying to their face about that very screwing for decades. So, even for those who realized en toto who Trump was, they simply weren’t going to vote for the “screwing they knew” any more.

I’ll tell you what makes me sick though: it’s that these Trump voters(not all of course) are given way too much credit. They are portrayed as the hard working blue collar crowd, fed up with the screwing from Washington. I see it differently. While that may be true for a portion of them I still believe the majority are low information voters who vote on emotion and feelings and are easily stirred up by the Rush Limbaughs of the world and believe that the government in the enemy–without knowing all the details or that this is not simply a black and white fact.

Yes–the Dems are a mess. Yes–they sold their soul to the corporations. Yes–people feel wage stagnation and higher health care costs.

But that’s where it ends for MOST of these voters.

The Republicans are no less corporate. Anyone paying attention to Trump had to know he would be a corporate wet dream. Anyone paying attention had to know he would be a nightmare in international relations.

I AM one of those blue collar workers. I work with guys who voted for Trump. But don’t get into any deep conversation with them regarding the details of government failures, or corporate welfare because their eyes glaze over and you lose them.

“Well…both parties are bad.” In other words—Trump is no worse than Clinton would have been.

That’s where they lose me.

I could not stand Clinton. Still can’t. I know EXACTLY what she would have been.

But this….this is a country suddenly on fire. The damage in four years will be hard to fix–if it ever is.

So yes–I hold the VOTERS accountable for the mess that is Trump. THEY own it.

They didn’t care enough to truly inform themselves on these issues. They didn’t care to see through this billionaire con man.

And yes–I know that there are SOME voters, some very smart voters, who voted for Trump. And yes–other voters DO agree with Trump on things like the wall. But THEY own it too. All of it.

Trump insists that he inherited a “mess” from Obama. The numbers don’t support that but people believe it. They haven’t seen anything yet. And what bothers me maybe more than all of it is that when that does happen–when they finally FEEL this—they won’t blame Trump. They’ll blame the media. They’ll blame the liberals in congress. They’ll blame Obama.

They won’t see what is directly in front of them. Instead they’ll vote in 2020 for more of the same. So Trump can finish the important work of cleaning up Obama’s disaster. And if it’s getting horrible–his core group of supporters will insist it’s going to take time to fix everything the Dems have done. And we’ll go down in bigger flames.

You can vote out disaster politicians. But if half the population agree with him and will follow him to hell–you need to BEAT the other side. You need more people involved. You need a surge in voters who see the truth and give a damn. But my fear is that any surge will be matched by one from the ignorant and emotional side as well.

It’s hard to be optimistic about the future.

It’s pretty bleak.

That’s ALMOST inconceivable at the energy scales typical of the particle interactions in our bodies

Almost!!!! He said, “ALMOST”!

A-ha!!!! Nothing is proven. Nittany is posting “fake science” again.

I read some of the apocalypse article on him and all the corporatist stuff aside(he surely is that too)he’s a bit of a nut. He believes there is a cycle for these world wars and seems to think we’re due. He was predicting war with China a while ago and seems to want to make it happen now. And yes–he’s pretty happy about all of that because of the reasons Zooey mentioned.

These guys running things are not mentally stable.

That should terrify everyone.

Have I ever told everyone how much I hate the NFL? Yes–great game. But I don’t feel great watching the Evil Empire win another one–especially the way they did it.

Falcons though–real choke job.

Ryan CAN’T take that sack. And then,insread of running and taking the FG, Shanahan decides to throw again. Holding. No FG. No momentum. No hope. Game was effectively over.

Awful to watch. I feel for the Falcon fans. I see a bad Superbowl loser hangover coming for that team next year.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by PA Ram.

The core of his base watches Fox News, listens to Limbaugh and Hannity and others.

The narrative is that Trump is:

1. Doing what he said he’d do

2. Is a victim of the “drive-by” media

3. Everything other than Fox News or something said by Trump is “fake news”

4. Protests are paid for by someone like George Soros

Rush said today that the media was out to get Trump and that his supporters should not be disheartened because the polls about his popularity are fake.

Fox News credits the positive job report to Trump.

They blame the Yemen raid on Obama.

His supporters go to sources that confirm their emotional belief.

Cognitive dissonance.

It doesn’t matter what Trump does. They would have to be affected in a very personal way and somehow BELIEVE that he was responsible, before they abandoned him. They are seeking out information that gives Trump credit and no blame. So…..

Bannon isn’t stupid. He’s getting Trump to lock in the evangelical base. There is no more fervent supporter than an evangelical one. If he gives them Christ in the schools and anti-abortion they’ll follow him to Armageddon.

They will love him. It’s kind of a way to get Republicans in line.

I think one of the most interesting things to watch in this car crash is how the Republicans handle all of this–how they try to stay out of inconvenient issues and disasters Trump creates, while still showing support for fear of their rabid base who brought him to power.

It’s going to be quite a show.

And not just them–Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, etc. So far the “entertainment” guys have been solidly behind Trump. Fox is like a Trump campaign commercial and they are attacking his enemies pretty hard. They even let loose on Starbucks.

May as well enjoy the show as the ship sinks, I guess.

The NSC has the right to authorize assassinations of U.S. citizens without due process. That’s kind of horrifying. Steve Bannon now sits on that council.

I think the Republicans are just waiting for him to dig himself in too deep and then replace him with Pence. They’re just grinning and bearing it right now and trying to keep their distance. They have their own agenda.