zn wrote:

wv wrote:
Foles isn’t a pressure quarterback

That’s my worry.

Best case – Foles overcomes his issues and develops into a consistent, solid to good QB.

Worst case – he’s a temporary place holder for the QB they draft this spring.

wv wrote:

There’s just somethin about Bradford
they didnt like.

I have only seen Foles stats. I’m
curious what kind of “leader” he is.
Cause i got a feeling the Rams
might want a different type of leader.
Just wild speculation of course.

Sam Bradford, an Eagle. Wow.

w
v

Yeah, I dunno. I can’t speak to whether Foles is a leader. The Eagles didn’t want him though. Sam certainly can run a spread offense…

I can see trading Bradford if you no longer think he’s your guy, but settling for Foles makes me gag. And why did it take Snisher so long to figure out Bradford wasn’t their guy? If they had figured that out a year ago or sooner they could have had better options for a replacement.

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by nittany ram.
• This reply was modified 10 years ago by zn.

So the Seahawks just improved their Superbowl-caliber team by adding Jimmy Graham.

Meanwhile, the always hapless Rams just traded their injured but talented QB for another injured QB with less upside.

Ok, I think a pattern is starting to materialize.

bnw wrote:

Weird thing is Russel Wilson probably does better when he is hurried.

Not according to PFF…
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/27/seahawks-russell-under-pressure/

And women don’t buy the value of hurries especially if I’ve showered.

I couldn’t find any stats on that.

PA Ram wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>wv wrote:</div>
I couldn’t care less about that kind of thing myself.

Cause to me, the CIA “itself” is a murderous, secret, lowdown,
evil, monstrous organization-from-hell. So, i start
from ‘that’ premise…so, to me, every chief of the CIA
has been a criminal. I could go on…

Have a nice day

w
v
“Our present economic, social, and international agreements are based,
in large measure, upon organized lovelessness.”
Aldous Huxley

I’m not sure what that has to do with it but okay. To me, I find it unjust. They want to hang Snowden to the cross. Petraeus walks. That bothers me. I care about it.

But can I do anything about it?

No.

Yeah, that’s what immediately came to mind – Patraeus vs Snowden.

wv wrote:

@nwagoner: … Blalock also has a history of playing and playing well under the guidance of Rams offensive line coach Paul Boudreau. I’d tend to think the Rams will look for a younger option to fill their need at guard, but if they decide that an older veteran might serve as a solid placeholder, a guy like Blalock would make a lot of sense…
============================

Well as I’ve droned on and on about,
I think they will go overboard on the OLine.
I bet they stock up on it more than ever before.
Cause the entire season depends on it, and this
aint year One, or year Two, or year Three.
They know they have to win.

They onliest way they dont go nutz
on Veteran OLinemen and Draftees,
is if they really think they already
have some studs among the group of ‘unknowns’
that they have. But i am skeptical
about that group.

If I was the Rams GM Blalock would already be signed.

zn wrote:

And it’s good. The first section is about corn, and demystifies a lot of things. For example, those seeds that were developed to allow high yields of corn were (1) patented, and (2) designed so the corn that grows from them cannot produce viable seeds capable of growth. They also require massive amounts of fertilizer, which washes down the Mississippi and produces a huge dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. Plus of course, being so cheap (because it’s subsidized), corn gets fed to mass-produced cattle, which can’t digest corn properly…and the result is, corn-fed cattle is constantly on anti-biotics.

It’s all one big mess.

Sounds like an interesting book. I may have to read it. I could not find anything that supports the idea that GMO corn requires more fertilizer than any other corn, but I have no doubt that excessive amounts of fertilizer is being used. A lot less fertilizer would be required if crops were rotated but because corn is so profitable, risk free and subsidized, crop rotations do not happen. But this isn’t a GMO thing, this is a ‘disregard what’s best for the environment to increase profits thing’.

Keep in mind through all of this I am no fan of Monsanto or of the huge agribusiness corporations. I have mixed feelings about being able to patent these crops. Afterall, Monsanto didn’t invent the genes they are inserting into these crops’ genomes. They were around long before Monsanto existed. They are just stealing them from existing organisms. However, the processes involved in identifying the gene, isolating it, figuring out the proper place to put it, inserting it, etc. and then doing all the testing to make sure it’s safe and doing what you want it to do must be time-consuming and expensive. And the result is a variety of corn that is unique. In that sense I can understand them being allowed to patent the corn, but like I said, I have mixed feelings about it.

As far as the nongerminating seeds go, Monsanto placed a terminator gene in their GMOs. Now, they may have done this in response to the concern that GMO crops could lead to a lack of genetic diversity because they could spread to neighboring non-GMO fields. This makes the GMO pollen nonviable and it won’t produce a seed. In reality that just may be a convenient maneuver to force farmers to buy seeds every year but farmers have had to buy seeds every year for hybrids since they came on the scene in the early 20th century so it’s nothing new for them.

But, my main point in this thread that there is nothing inherently evil about GMOs although the companies that control them may follow the same ‘profits above everything’ mantra that all other major corporations follow. But GMOs themselves are a good thing and the available data would back that up.

bnw wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>nittany ram wrote:</div>
The true path is unknown to you?

Are you not of the body?

If the body is a slavish devotion to swirls masquerading as horns on a helmet then no. In fact I am sworn to cleanse the helmet born of the graffiti insult of an obviously bored Rams player wanting a career in fashion design. Down with the body.

You will be absorbed.

zn wrote:

Nittany, have you read The Omnivore’s Dilemma?

No I haven’t. It was written by Pollan, right?

A few thoughts…

Well I’m all for having the debate. Let’s have it. The vaccination debate is finally happening and perhaps it’s way past time that it happens for GMOs.

About monocultures. This method of farming existed long before GMOs came on the scene. It’s driven by economics. In places like Iowa corn is typically planted because it produces a higher yield with a smaller risk than other crops. So it’s planted over and over again with little crop rotation. But this didn’t happen as a result of GMOs. It was already happening and GMO corn was just thrown into the mix.

My take away from that video is that Pollan seems like a thoughtful and reasonable guy but he still doesn’t understand the science. Granted he says he isn’t convinced that GMOs represent a health hazard but he also doesn’t seem to see the benefits. He dismisses the environmental benefits out of hand. To me that’s not something to be glossed over. It’s estimated that there will be 10 billion people on this planet by 2050. We need a way to drastically improve crop yields if we are to save any of the remaining wild areas on the earth, or risk it being all plowed under. Improved farming methods can only take you so far. At some point you need to improve the crop itself. Put it this way, if GMOs are harmful then we better figure out a way to make them not so because our future depends on them.

BTW, my interest in GMOs is limited and has little to do with food production anyway. It has more to do with disease eradicaton and saving wild species. See examples of this in the links below…

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2014/12/20/gmo-trees-saving-the-american-chestnut-tree/

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2014/12/09/gmo-hiv-still-helping-kids/

wv wrote:

But I’ll say this — I would put the ‘burden of proof’ on
the GMO Corporations to PROVE its safe. I would
not put the burden on the consumers.

True. And as the article says, GMO foods are the most highly tested food there is.

I’d also make the GMO Corps stop fighting honest,
open and accurate Labeling of their products.
Why are they fighting that? Let consumers have
a choice and decide for themselves.

Here’s my problem with that. Then all food has to be labled GMO. That’s even true for so-called organic food because it’s all been genetically modified. It’s been modified through artificial selection. And the unavoidable byproduct of life is genetic modification. It’s going to happen whether it occurs naturally or artificially. Someone might say, “but that isn’t the same” but any geneticist will tell you that “yes indeed, it is the same”.

Personally, like i say, I doubt if there is a problem
with most GMO food. But i do think, sooner or later
there will be a problem. Just a guess though.

Well, I don’t think there will be but that’s why all this stuff is tested so thoroughly.

One of the things i’d discuss with that Pro-GMO-writer
is — he makes it seem like this is a debate about “science”.
But there is no “pure food science,”
there’s only science-mixed-with-mega-Corporations.
And the Corporations have a long record
of lying about…um….everything.

True, but the safety of GMO foods has been verified by plenty of independent laboratories as well.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by nittany ram.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/anti-gmo-propaganda/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Published by Steven Novella under General Science
Comments: 1
There is so much anti-science propaganda out there I often feel like I am emptying the ocean with a spoon. Just today I was faced with an array of choices for my post – should I take on anti-vaccine, anti-GMO, or anti-AGW propaganda? For today, anyway, anti-GMO won. I’ll get to the others eventually.

This was sent to me by a reader – 5 reasons to avoid GMOs. The content is mostly tired anti-GMO tropes (lies, really) that have been thoroughly debunked, but it is good to address such propaganda in a concise way. Also, it is a useful demonstration of the intellectual dishonesty of the anti-GMO movement. I may not get through all of them today – each one is so densely packed with wrong, and it takes longer to correct a misconception than to create one. Here is point #1 – GMOs are not healthy:

GMOs are unhealthy: Since the introduction of GMOs in the mid-1990s, the number of food allergies has sky-rocketed, and health issues such as autism, digestive problems and reproductive disorders are on the rise. Animal testing with GMOs has resulted in cases of organ failure, digestive disorders, infertility and accelerated aging. Despite an announcement in 2012 by the American Medical Association stating they saw no reason for labeling genetically modified foods, the American Academy of Environmental Medicine has urged doctors to prescribe non-GMO diets for their patients.

The author begins with an assumption of causation from correlation. The increase in food allergies actually does not correlate well with the introduction of GMOs. The correlation between organic food and autism is much more impressive. In fact, the organic food industry has been rising steadily over this same time period, and so one could make the even stronger point that organic food causes all the listed ills.

Food allergies is a particularly bad target for fear mongering, however. There has yet to be a single case of food allergy linked to a GMO. Not one. Further, GMOs are tested for the allergic potential. Allergenic foods have features in common. For example, the proteins that provoke and allergic response are able to survive stomach acids sufficiently intact that they can still produce a reaction. Scientists can therefore test any new proteins against known allergens and look for homology. (The same is true for known toxins.) This, of course, is not an absolute guarantee, but it is a very good safety net, and it has worked so far.

What about the animal studies? Well, 19 years of animal feeding with GMO has not resulted in any detectable increase in negative health outcomes of livestock. Further, systematic reviews of animal feeding studies have shown no harm. The author here is cherry picking a couple of poor quality outliers. They don’t give specific references, but the same few studies (such as the retracted Seralini study) always crop up on such lists.

They finish with an odd argument from authority. They mention that the AMA says GMOs are safe, but fail to mention the dozens of other medical and scientific organizations that have also reviewed the evidence and found current GMO crops to be safe. Instead they cherry pick another outlier, an anti-GMO environmental group.

They increase herbicide use: When Monsanto came up with the idea for Round-up Ready crops, the theory was to make the crops resistant to the pesticide that would normally kill them. This meant the farmers could spray the crops, killing the surrounding weeds and pests without doing any harm to the crops themselves. However, after a number of years have passed, many weeds and pests have themselves become resistant to the spray, and herbicide-use increased (both in amount and strength) by 11% between 1996 and 2011. Which translates to – lots more pesticide residue in our foods – yum!

The story is more complex than this cartoon. First, the introduction of Bt GMO varieties has clearly reduced the use of insecticide (pesticides include insecticides and herbicides). The introduction of glyphosate resistant crops has increased the use of glyphosate (an herbicide), but decreased the use of other herbicides. Total herbicide use has actually decreased. Further, glyphosate is among the least toxic herbicides, and so the trend has been to replace more toxic herbicides with a less toxic herbicide.

Therefore, the bottom line conclusion of the author – more pesticides in our food – is the opposite of the truth.

Herbicide resistant crops has also allowed the reduction in tilling, which harms the soil and releases CO2 into the atmosphere.

It is true that overreliance on any single strategy for weed control will lead to resistance. This is a generic problem with any strategy that we use. This is a problem of the massive farming needed to feed the world, and is not unique to GMO. Therefore, of course we need to use technology carefully and thoughtfully to optimize sustainability. Some form of integrated pest management is therefore probably a good idea, but this is not incompatible with GMO technology.

They are everywhere! GMOs make up about 70-80% of our foods in the United States. Most foods that contain GMOs are processed foods. But they also exist in the form of fresh vegetables such as corn on the cob, papaya and squash. The prize for the top two most genetically modified crops in the United States goes to corn and soy. Think about how many foods in your pantry or refrigerator contain corn or its byproducts (high fructose corn syrup) or soy and its byproducts (partially hydrogenated soybean oil).

So what? GMO are safe to eat. They are good for the environment. I would be happy if 100% of our crops were genetically modified in order to optimize their traits. In fact, 100% of our crops have been extensively genetically modified through breeding over centuries and even millennia. You would hardly recognize the pre-modified versions of the food you eat every day.

GM technology is faster and more precise. It can also introduce genes from distant branches of life, but again – so what? All life on earth shares a common genetic code and basic biochemistry. We share genes with peas. There is no such thing as a “fish gene” really. There are just genes that are found in fish, most of which are also found in vegetables but some that aren’t. As long as we know what the genes are doing, and test their net effects on the crop, who cares where they came from?

GM crops don’t ensure larger harvests. As it turns out, GMO crop yields are not as promising as some projections implied. In fact, in some instances, they have been out-yielded by their non-GMO counterparts. This conclusion was reached in a 20 year study carried out by the University of Wisconsin and funded by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Thus negating one of the main arguments in favor of GMOs.

This is one of those – sort of true, but very misleading – factoids that are common in propaganda. The currently available GM crop traits are not specifically designed to increase yield. They are designed to make yield more predictable, by reducing loss through pests, drought, or disease. Higher yielding traits are in the pipeline, however.

What about that University of Wisconsin study the author specifically cites (it’s nice when they give a specific reference to check their sources)? It concludes:

Their analysis, published online in a Nature Biotechnology correspondence article on Feb. 7, confirms the general understanding that the major benefit of genetically modified (GM) corn doesn’t come from increasing yields in average or good years, but from reducing losses during bad ones.

That’s a little different than what the author implied. It reduces losses in bad years – which mean overall yields are increased. This also only referred to corn. Bt cotton has increased yields by an average of 24%, increasing profit and quality of life for cotton farmers in India.

A 2014 meta-analysis concluded:

On average, GM technology adoption has reduced chemical pesticide use by 37%, increased crop yields by 22%, and increased farmer profits by 68%. Yield gains and pesticide reductions are larger for insect-resistant crops than for herbicide-tolerant crops. Yield and profit gains are higher in developing countries than in developed countries.

Still, anti-GMO activists continue to lie about the data, claiming the exact opposite of what the scientific evidence shows.

And finally:

U.S. Labeling suppression: Many of the companies who have an interest in keeping GMOs on the market don’t want you to know which foods contain them. For this reason, they have suppressed recent attempts by states such as California and Washington to require labeling of GMO products. And since they have deep pockets, they were successful – for now. The companies who spent the most on these campaigns are Monsanto (who produces the GMO seeds), and Pepsi, Coca Cola, Nestle and General Mills, who produce some of the most processed foods in existence. Incidentally, most other developed countries such as the nations of the European Union, Japan, Australia, Brazil, and China have mandatory labeling of genetically modified foods. Food for thought!

They somehow fail to mention that the multi-billion dollar organic food industry lobbies for labeling. But again I say, so what? The fact that there is a political argument about labeling does not directly imply anything about the safety of GMO or whether or not it is a good thing for people and the planet. In fact – that is the very reason that many people (the corporations aside) oppose labeling.

Mandatory labels imply that there is something for the consumer to worry about. It is a transparent attempt to demonize a safe and effective technology, so that anti-GMO propaganda will have a target. This is also an attempt by a competitor – the organic food industry – to create a negative marketing halo around its competition.

Conclusion

This is only a small sampling of the anti-GMO propaganda that is out there. I am all for a vigorous evidence-based discussion about the true risks and benefits of a new technology. This includes how to optimally regulate such technologies. I believe in the need for thoughtful and effective regulations of any technology that has health or environmental impacts. We have seen what happens when an industry, like the supplement industry, is not effectively regulated.

GMOs are highly regulated. They are the most tested food that we eat. Cultivars that resulting from hybridizing plants and mutation farming, using chemicals or radiation to speed up the process of DNA mutation, are not tested and are even considered organic. This is a double standard, but fine. Let’s test the hell out of GMOs to make sure there are no surprises. This is already happening – and GMOs currently on the market are safe.

The anti-GMO campaign is largely an anti-science campaign. This one article is not an outlier – it is squarely in the mainstream of anti-GMO rhetoric.

The Immaculate Reception is only 13th? No way. Top 3 easily and perhaps number one.

zn wrote:

How about it guys? One for the gipper?

Um, no thanks.

But happy birthday anyway. 😉