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  • in reply to: wikileaks – neutral or biased? #58551
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    That might be it, but it might be something else.

    It might be that the Obama Administration and Clinton by extension tried to create a facade of transparency and fairness when in reality, they were being horribly vindictive and persecutorial (meant it that way, not prosecutorial) with respect to whistleblowers.

    We saw a TREMENDOUS acceleration of Wikileaks action AFTER Clinton’s answers regarding what she thought should happen with Edward Snowden.

    There is NO WAY Wikileaks would have gone after the DNC or Bernie Sanders in the same way they went after Clinton.

    I think in large part this was a massive FUCK YOU to the huge hypocrisy of the Obama Administration and by extension, the Clintons.

    Clinton would have no problem jailing reporters and prosecuting intelligence officers who raise issues of constitutionality.

    I really don’t know if Assange gave a shit about the ramifications.

    But, ya know… it’s so much easier for the corporate media to call Assange a misogynist than to actually think about what Assange is and has done and where Clinton stands and where those intersections lie.

    I swear, we have the laziest fucking media.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58527
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Gays attacked for no good reason? There are countless knock out videos of black on white violence that never make the MSM with the exception of FOX News on occasion. That is what Obama has brought. Violence on the left is far more the norm than on the right. Flying the stars and bars isn’t uncommon in the South. Usually the stars and bars flies with the stars and stripes. You should know that living there and it isn’t a protest against a trans child. Why you fear Trump I cannot fathom.

    I live in Florida and at least in this corner of the deep south… the stars and bars do NOT fly with the American flag. That’s just horseshit. Patently false. If there’s room for two flags, you get two stars and bars.

    It’s rare to see them together. RARE.

    But more importantly, I refuse to engage in equivocation. WRONG IS WRONG. PERIOD.

    So, not only don’t I give a shit about “knock out videos”, I’m not talking about them nor will I. If you wish to champion that cause, then do that. I’ll be glad to hear your arguments and maybe if the argument is valid, I’ll change my mind and begin to care.

    Beyond that, my child has real concerns because real violence is happening in the LGBTQ+ community. That’s real and doesn’t require equivocation, defense or mitigation. It’s just a fact and violence based on identity is simply unAmerican.

    • This reply was modified 8 years ago by Mackeyser.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Taibbi on Trump #58523
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Yeah… he eviscerated Wall Street.

    He needs to eviscerate the media in the same vein.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: A little Q & A with Thich Nhat Hanh #58516
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I’ve found that a lot of Buddhist wisdom has helped me to be a much better Christian.

    Especially that last point.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    That you call Noam Chomsky a low information pseudo-intellectual is…well…just wow.

    That’s just so counterfactual, I can’t even…

    The denial is strong with this one.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Robert Reich: The Democratic Party Needs To Clean House #58460
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I wasn’t condescending to you. I was challenging you on your points. I thought those were fair game.

    Also, text is a tricky thing. I dunno if it was in the phrasing or how you chose to read what I wrote or what, but I can tell you that my tone wasn’t intended to be in the manner in which you received it.

    Maybe that preamble was needed after all. As I said before, don’t confuse my stridency for authority.

    Fair enough. And maybe I was being over-sensitive, because I’ve been defending my choices and my POV for a few days, across multiple platforms, and to all kinds of people (in person). I have a lot of respect for you, Mackey Mack, and for everyone on this board, quite honestly. You’re all very smart and scholarly. Like wv said, it’s difficult to keep our animosities in check when discussing politics, but I had/have high hopes for this board in particular to do just that. So, going forward, I’ll try not to read ‘tone’ into the discussion, and I’ll do my best to elucidate in the same manner.

    Now. Let me address a couple of you retorts.

    As far as any votes in the past goes, it’s awfully hard to judge them acontextually because in a lot of instances, they were symbolic votes, knowing either the Dems would block or Obama would veto. I mean, look at the “repeal Obamacare” legislation. On January 20th, the Republicans hold the House, Senate and Presidency. Are they going to repeal it on day 1? Nope. Moreover, you know have those same Reps who voted for repeal saying quite openly that it won’t happen for AT LEAST A YEAR. Why? Because it simply can’t.

    I’ve often said that the Dems should walk out and let the Reps vote and just…go ahead. Simply abstain so that a quorum is present, but the Reps still have to own the vote. You’d be amazed at how often these “symbolic” votes where supposed sober leaders are so busy shouting are stuck with actually having to deal with the actuality of their ideas coming to fruition.

    So, no. There is in reality ZERO chance that the Fed is audited. If I could bet, I’d bet everything I own including organs. Less than zero. It’s a private corporation and if the public actually knew how much THEY control the US economy as opposed to the President or Congress…well, it’ll never happen.

    It’s hard for me to talk about things like abortion and marijuana because I’m such an Anti-Federalist. I mean, I’m a Vet and a US Citizen, but if I lived in CA or CO, I could use medical marijuana to alleviate my service-connected pain without much chance that using such would endanger my benefits unless doing so broke the already existing laws such as DUI, disturbing the peace, public intoxication, etc. However, because I live in FL, I cannot. My rights under the Constitution are DIFFERENT. I’m still an American, but because of this fucked up system, my rights AS an American aren’t based on my citizenship in full, but based on which state I live. Which is absurd. That exists in no other country on earth. Germans don’t live with different rights because they live in Dusseldorf or Berlin. Brazilians don’t have different rights in Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paolo. But an American sure as shit has different rights in all sorts of ways between Boulder, Colorado and Tuskegee, Alabama. So… I’m sorry. It’s just hard for me to even hear these “states rights” arguments because enshrined in them are so much inherent and system racism, bigotry and denial of rights across the board that even if none of that applies to an individual instance, it doesn’t change that it applies to the whole. So, yeah… sometimes I talk apples to oranges on these topics because I tend to want to indict the entire topic because I see the whole thing as complete and utter BS. I see Americans as Americans, but Federalism enshrines in law that we aren’t and can’t be fully Americans. We’re States citizens EXCEPT where specifically under the auspices of the Constitution. Which, imho, is some tired, 18th century horseshit. Ymmv. This is my baggage, tho. I know it cuz it’s one of “those topics” where if anyone says “states rights” the kids roll their eyes and leave the room. /shrug

    As for destroying Islamic fundamentalism, we’re probably talking past one another. What I mean is that while you can destroy organizations, you can’t destroy what created them. As in…we still have white nationalists (Steve Bannon is the White House Chief Strategist…), neo-Nazis and white supremacist movements all over the world. So, can we defeat a Nazi army? Sure. Can we defeat White Nationalism or White Supremacy once and for all? Nope. Which is the same thing as saying we can destroy Islamic fundamentalism. Can we destroy ISIL? Yep, it’s an organization. And there are SMART ways to do that. One would be to stop killing innocent people indiscriminately and funding countries that sponsor terror (like Saudi Arabia). We can engage rather than demonize. Iran isn’t refining further nuclear materials AND we’re not party to starving Iranian children because we’re engaging with the Iranians now. Point is that in this fractured world, the way forward is to grow our positive relationships and to realize that there is no “other”. Iranians want the same things that Germans want the same things that the Thai people want the same things that South Africans want the same things that Peruvians want the same things that we want.

    I think when the organizations that traffic in terror are conflated with the negative impulses and/or ideologies that lead to those organizations, we end up talking past one another. I think we’ve done a great job of eliminating the influence of the KKK in American politics (the story of that is fascinating tax law, btw). We’ve done a terrible job of eliminating racism or white supremacy or white nationalism in this country.

    So if you had said, we need to eliminate Terrorist threats that are based in Islamic fundamentalism, I’d agree with you. Organizations like ISIL, Boko Haram and others absolutely need to be shitstomped and right quick. Beyond that, we have to grow as a species and a civilization and that’s going to take hundreds or maybe thousands of years, presuming we survive that long.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Climate change: Learning to think like a geologist #58376
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Well, I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida.

    And I’m here to tell you that the insurance companies just rezoned the entire state and moved the flood zones significantly…in a way that reflects directly the climate change models.

    Now, why would they do that unless their actuarial tables reflected the actual risk of climate change to be real? Based on actual loss as measured on world wide climate, not just local variables?

    Money. They want to make money with as little risk as possible.

    So, they used the Climate models for shits and giggles? The raise in premiums was pure greed, but the risk allocation was exactly matching the climate models..what…to troll environmentalists?

    /smh

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Climate change: Learning to think like a geologist #58371
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Well, I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida.

    And I’m here to tell you that the insurance companies just rezoned the entire state and moved the flood zones significantly…in a way that reflects directly the climate change models.

    Now, why would they do that unless their actuarial tables reflected the actual risk of climate change to be real? Based on actual loss as measured on world wide climate, not just local variables?

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Robert Reich: The Democratic Party Needs To Clean House #58369
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    See, I can see why people voted for Trump. He was the ONLY remaining candidate who actually spoke the words that the economy was rigged and politicians were liars.

    M’okay. Problem is that nothing he said about actual governance has any chance of actually happening. As in…NO CHANCE. I don’t have to “give him a chance” because I’m not in Congress. However, if I listen to Ryan and McConnell and look at who it looks like Trump will appoint to key positions… HOLY SHIT. He didn’t drain the swamp…he flooded it.

    I was asked if I tried to understand Trump’s positions, and if I actually knew what they were. That was condescending enough, but I let it slide. I was also told that none of his policies will work at the same time I was asked to verify that I knew what his policies even were. You just used a shit-ton more words to tell me the same thing, and then “M’okay’d” me dismissively because, and I quote, “I can see why people voted for Trump. He was the ONLY remaining candidate who actually spoke the words that the economy was rigged and politicians were liars.”

    That’s not why I voted for him. I don’t vote for sound-bytes. But thanks for thinking me that shallow. If he doesn’t get all of those things done, then I will have learned my lesson. But at least I will have given it a shot. In the process, I don’t need to be slapped on the hands with a ruler before he even takes office by people who can read tea leaves, though. I can tell you that much.

    So with that, I think I’m done talking politics. There’s no balance of intellect or morality here. There’s everyone, and then the few who aren’t everyone. You guys win. Scales are tipped in favor of your superiority. And I don’t deserve to be hopeful about the future, because that’s just delusional apparently. Also, there’s no point in debating against opinions based on speculation. How do you even have those conversations? “Nobody’s done anything before, so nobody will do anything in the future.” Oh. Okay. Got it. Case closed.

    I’m just gonna genuflect real quick and then find my way out. Because at this point, I can honestly see the benefit of surrounding yourself with like-minded people. It’s also nice to have hope and people like to think that they’re making good choices or that their opinions matter. This is just a constant reminder that I’m apparently a moron (and any number of “ists”). So, yeah. No thanks. And you know what the worst part is? Any of you could have seized the opportunity to teach me about your ideologies and use persuasion and tact to make me, at minimum, a sympathizer. Instead, laughs and condescension because … my opinions.

    “Okay, I laughed at this”
    “That’s a nonsensical statement.”

    Awesomesauce.

    I think you misunderstand me.

    I probably had harsher critiques for Hillary.

    And I get super frustrated to the point of getting angry that it’s impossible to make a point without having to equivocate. It shouldn’t be necessary.

    I wasn’t condescending to you. I was challenging you on your points. I thought those were fair game.

    Also, text is a tricky thing. I dunno if it was in the phrasing or how you chose to read what I wrote or what, but I can tell you that my tone wasn’t intended to be in the manner in which you received it.

    Maybe that preamble was needed after all. As I said before, don’t confuse my stridency for authority.

    I can break it down in a few sentences.

    Trump promised stuff. It’s not a matter of “hoping” he fulfills his campaign promises. There are real structural and political impediments that make doing so either virtually or actually impossible. These are the “known knowns” as Rumsfeld would say. Part of the critique of Bernie’s programs for example, was logistically how he would implement them.

    Well? It’s no different for any candidate who once they’ve won the office has to transition to governance. Governance is a real thing, there are limits based on the Constitution. There are political considerations from both parties. There are processes which must be navigated.

    The LAST thing I want to do is drive someone away from the conversation. So if my stridency did that, I apologize. I can work on that. Maybe…hopefully….sometimes.

    Edit: as for “Okay, I laughed at this”….I did. The idea that either party would do fuck all with ethics reform…is laughable. I’m not laughing at you. I’m laughing at the idea that ANY major party would do anything about ethics reform. I, personally, would love ethics reform. Real and true reform. As for “That’s a nonsensical statement”, I could have phrased that better. I didn’t mean for it to be dismissive (if you’d heard me say it, it wouldn’t have sounded dismissive, but text doesn’t allow for much context), but more definitional. Your statement about defeating Islamic fundamentalism once and for all is sentimental, but isn’t something that can have a foundation in policy or be logistically implemented in any real way. Not unless we as a country take responsibility for our role in world events and the US refuses to do that. Like I said, we kill 85 totally innocent people with a drone and the government literally says…nothing. But in the absence of being able to talk in person, as I said, I can do better about communicating not just the message I want to convey and the facts I want to convey, but also the tone.

    • This reply was modified 8 years ago by Mackeyser.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Robert Reich: The Democratic Party Needs To Clean House #58367
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Conservatives don’t march. They get in line.

    Marching doesn’t do shit either. Right now it’s a tantrum parade.

    He’ll be held accountable by going through the process. Writing our Representatives, Congressmen and Senators to get our displeasure on record before the following elections. Think representatives want to lose the votes of their constituents? Holding someone accountable doesn’t mean we, personally, can make him do what we want by force. Nobody can accomplish that. You can only do what’s lawfully within your capabilities to do, so we’ll do that. You’re probably right that we won’t get out there with our Fuck Trump signs and piss and moan about broken promises and threaten revolution. And considering you just called all conservatives mindless robots, I guess we won’t do anything other than bend over and take it up the ass. That’s the caricature, right? Just get in line and accept your fate.

    I wonder how many times I’ll get insulted on this board for not being a progressive or liberal, while reading about how that’s not the way it’s done around here.

    You misunderstand me. I was using half of a pretty popular quote about Dems and Reps. The actual quote is “Dems fall in love. Reps fall in line”

    And we’ve seen that. Dems are acting heartbroken. That word is being used to death to describe Dems right now. Well…Reps fall in line. Typically, that’s the case. We saw it throughout the Bush years. With 7 years of solid data, even then most Reps wouldn’t criticize the federal spending, the bloated debt, the interventionism, the unfunded mandates, the federal overreach, the seizing of executive power, etc.

    A lot of that is partisan stuff. But the partisan stuff is stronger on the Rep side. Hillary lost because the Dems didn’t fall in love. If the Dems fell in line like Reps, she’d have won overwhelmingly because there’s just a lot more Dems than Reps. It’s a simple numbers game.

    So, I wasn’t trying to insult anyone. At all. Well, partisans, but I’ve already made that point, I think.

    As for marching, I don’t think it’s a tantrum parade. Was MLK’s People’s March on Washington a tantrum parade? Well, that’s what it was described at the time. That’s being kind. It was called much, much worse. Were there Dems there doing the partisan thing? Sure. And I have about as much patience for that as Reps chest bumping over a Trump victory. Of course, let me say that any march where there’s violence…that’s just bad.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Climate change: Learning to think like a geologist #58365
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Was just in the ER with my first Ophthalmic migraine last night so I’m admittedly not at my best.

    Best I can do is note a few things.

    1) Focusing on Al Gore rather than the findings of actual climate scientists diminishes the seriousness of the critique. Al Gore is basically a concerned citizen who tried to assemble the scientific consensus and present it to the masses. Essentially, it’s focusing on the messenger vs the message and it’s disingenuous.

    2) On topic, I really don’t care about what the temperatures were 65 million years ago. We currently have MOST of the population of the earth living within 100 miles of a coast line. So rising sea levels is a massive cause for alarm. We cannot just move Rio de Janeiro, Miami, New Orleans, New York, Washington DC, Shanghai, Hong Kong, London, Sydney, and a HOST of other major coastal cities.

    3) What doesn’t get much discussion are the rising levels of disease interaction as the tropical band width increases. Diseases that used to be restricted to a fairly narrow band near the equator and stayed there because the rest of the world was too cold…are now migrating much farther north and intermingling with other viruses creating the crucible for the next super pandemic. And thanks to the US not nationalizing the manufacture of vaccines (the vaccine manufactures gave the ultimatum that they’d leave and do all manufacturing off shore leaving the US without in the case of a pandemic, so the Congress caved and granted vaccine manufactures with blanket immunity from all prosecution. Fracking being the only other industry with that distinction. A vaccine maker could distribute actual disease and not suffer a nickel of liability)… we have this crippled vaccine structure which doesn’t test and does a terrible job of developing new vaccines…because there is no incentive. They get paid massive amounts to produce the same old stuff and there’s no legal penalty if any of it causes damage. As we saw when H1N1 happened…and I know because I when CNN announced there were 6 confirmed cases in Florida, I was informed that *I* had Swine flu. I dunno where in the top 20 or so I fell, but I was up there. And there was no vaccine for my family. They actually wanted my family to stay home. They’d likely get it, but the spread would stay within our home. So, I’ve actually had to live through how they deal with a new virus. When something actually big hits due to the collision of diseases that normally aren’t outside the tropics and diseases like avian or swine flu…look out. That will solely be a function of ONE of the changes wrought due to Climate Change.

    4) The Joint Chiefs said that Climate Change is the single biggest threat to our national security. Just look at Syria. Even if the factions stopped fighting TODAY, all of those refugees couldn’t go back. Why? NO WATER. NO PROSPECT OF WATER. As the Joint Chiefs pointed out in their brief, access to resources, chiefly among them clean, potable water will cause mass migrations which will lead to significant regional instability. That factions will use this instability towards their own ends won’t change the underlying cause.

    Bottom line is this. Global sea level has AlREADY risen 9 inches. That wasn’t supposed to happen for decades. The latest NOAA report puts the worst case scenario at 9 feet sea level rise within the next 20 years. Do you have any idea how much disruption that will cause?

    YOU may not lose a home, but most of southern Florida…disappears. The outer banks of North Carolina? Gone. We joke about Washington DC, but logistically, it would be a nightmare having to relocate the seat of our national government. And we would if we saw 9 feet of sea level rise. Moreover the added energy available for storms would allow for the creation of storms we’ve never measured before.

    It’s a mistake for people to think in geological time because we don’t exist in geological time. The last ice age, we wore pelts and hunted bison and mammoth. Now, we use sensitive electronics and make jokes about exercise. We do not have the infrastructure of the economy to move 10s of millions of people. And that’s just in THIS country. That doesn’t take into account the political unrest and fallout caused by the potential dislocation of HUNDREDS of millions of dispossessed around the world due to Climate change.

    And this is from the very sober, mission-oriented Generals and Admirals of the Joint Chiefs.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Robert Reich: The Democratic Party Needs To Clean House #58361
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    He will be held accountable.

    ahem… how.

    No really. What in Heaven’s name does that mean. Conservatives don’t march. They get in line.

    So…when infrastructure dies because as Mitch McConnell has already said, “it’s not very high on the agenda” and the wall doesn’t get built, cuz, well…it’s infrastructure…and mass deportations don’t happen because net immigration is zero and the number of criminals was so grossly overstated by Trump as well as deportations was already so high under Obama that it just wouldn’t be feasible short of massive spending…which again…Congress won’t allocate.

    So, no wall. no mass deportations. no infrastructure…so no jobs. No serious change to trade deals (those take Congress to change…and the corporations won’t let Congress change them)

    So…honestly, what does that LOOK LIKE. In real terms.

    Waiting two years and voting for people MORE conservative? Writing letters to the editor? Calling Congress?

    What does that look like in real terms? What does “holding Trump accountable” look like beyond the rhetoric?

    At the ballot box like civilized people.

    Pretty sure the exercise of the First Amendment to freely assemble is civilized. Especially since, in the age of media and lobbying, money votes every day…citizens vote once

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Robert Reich: The Democratic Party Needs To Clean House #58360
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I’m against NAFTA

    All trade agreements have to be ratified through Congress and they have no appetite to change it because…they’re still bought by the corporate interests who benefit the most. There is ZERO chance he fundamentally changes any trade agreements.

    I want to limit U.S. hegemony by not being the world’s police anymore

    That’s an excellent sentiment. If only the people he was appointing weren’t the most hawkish of the hawks. James Woolsey is in consideration for heading the CIA? Really? Well, if you want to limit US Hegemony, then guys like Woolsey would be at the bottom of the list. The fact that he’s likely going to head the CIA shows that we’re going to be getting deep into things around the world. Again. Buckle up.

    I’m for term limits on Congress

    That would require legislation from Congress. Never. Happen. Moreover, if you term limit Congress, you put the functioning power of Congress further into the hands of lobbyists because it takes a fair bit of time to learn how the organization functions. People think legislation is easy. It is not, even without the fundraising.

    I want ethics reform to limit lobbyism

    Okay, I laughed at this. The last Republican who gave a single damn about ethics was Eisenhower. That’s a fact. Moreover, the fact that the “outsider” just appointed or will appoint mostly lobbyists to key positions is proof that the revolving door isn’t remotely about to close. I’d LOVE for that revolving door to be forever locked shut. Unfortunately, it was reinforced as a path to power.

    I want to eliminate health care monopolies like we have now

    This is really going to suck. Paul Ryan will finally have a President who will allow him to try and dismantle Medicare and move Medicare to private insurance vouchers. And the appointments at the FTC will only make the corporate merger environment more fertile. Same with the SEC and other agencies. So, rather than eliminating the monopolies, they will only be made stronger. There will be fewer companies offering less for more. Why? Because they can. Moreover, the collusion will go unpunished because anti-trust is rarely prosecuted in Republican administrations (check for the 20 years of Reagan, Bush and Bush). I despise these monopolies. However, they’re only going to get stronger under this current administration. All of the appointees firmly establish this path.

    I’d like to destroy Islamic terrorists once and for all

    That’s a nonsensical statement. That’s like saying you’d like to destroy racism once and for all. It’s an excellent sentiment, but not one that can happen in reality. Example: We slam people Arab countries who want to harm us, but when we kill 85 innocent people with a drone strike, we don’t even say a word. We don’t apologize…not even a my bad. The families of those innocent victims have legitimate grievance against the US. However, because there is no venue for legitimate grievance, we foment radicalization (note: this isn’t the only avenue for this). But keep this in mind: The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Such statements like yours above is such a statement. A good intention that leads logistically to no good. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t address the underlying causes of radicalization. We should.

    I want decisions like legalized marijuana and abortion to revert back to the States

    Well, I’ll save my full rant about why Federalism sucks ass for another day, but this is, but one of a million examples. States rights? really? All states rights really net in 2016 is the unequal application of the Constitution between the member states. Moreover, almost all of the most divisive issues have to do with religious based issues. Well, I’m a devout Christian and I DO NOT want to live in a Christian Theocracy or a Christian based government of any kind. So I take issues with States that continuously try to legislate religious doctrine which is mostly what States rights have devolved into. I mean, marijuana from a scientific perspective may be everything from a superfood to a bonanza to alleviate suffering and help heal brain and spinal injuries. Thanks to religious opposition, we can’t have that. States rights and all.

    I’m against common core

    Me, too. It will likely be removed or altered, but they won’t eliminate the endless, mindless testing. Why? Because that would mean trusting teachers to teach and holding both teachers and students accountable for actually learning. Well, many conservatives can’t separate teachers from the teacher’s union, so now all teachers suck. As well, far too many parents on every end of the spectrum refuse to hold students accountable. And honestly, a lot of students don’t see the point when the economy has been so systemically rigged against most of them remotely tasting anything beyond being a roommate or living with their parents forever.

    I’m strongly in favor of immigration reform

    Okay. Does that include H1-B Visa abuse? I’m asking. Also, demonizing immigrants is likely to cause a massive brain drain as something like 70% of the STEM PhD candidates are foreign, most deciding to stay in the US. I absolutely agree that we desperately need immigration reform. I mean the legal pathway is so archaic and fundamentally broken that it can take more than 20 years to navigate. It makes the old CA DMV seem like a Tokyo bullet train ride. So, while I agree that the SYSTEM needs a massive overhaul, I have massive doubts that anyone in this Administration will give one iota about reforming the system when they gain political capital demonizing immigrants who generally have very little and can misdirect the ills of a complex economy onto poor immigrants.

    I’d like to see him audit the Fed

    You and every single critic of the Fed on the right and left. Guess what? It’s NEVER, EVER, EVER going to happen.

    See, I can see why people voted for Trump. He was the ONLY remaining candidate who actually spoke the words that the economy was rigged and politicians were liars.

    M’okay. Problem is that nothing he said about actual governance has any chance of actually happening. As in…NO CHANCE. I don’t have to “give him a chance” because I’m not in Congress. However, if I listen to Ryan and McConnell and look at who it looks like Trump will appoint to key positions… HOLY SHIT. He didn’t drain the swamp…he flooded it.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Robert Reich: The Democratic Party Needs To Clean House #58352
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    He will be held accountable.

    ahem… how.

    No really. What in Heaven’s name does that mean. Conservatives don’t march. They get in line.

    So…when infrastructure dies because as Mitch McConnell has already said, “it’s not very high on the agenda” and the wall doesn’t get built, cuz, well…it’s infrastructure…and mass deportations don’t happen because net immigration is zero and the number of criminals was so grossly overstated by Trump as well as deportations was already so high under Obama that it just wouldn’t be feasible short of massive spending…which again…Congress won’t allocate.

    So, no wall. no mass deportations. no infrastructure…so no jobs. No serious change to trade deals (those take Congress to change…and the corporations won’t let Congress change them)

    So…honestly, what does that LOOK LIKE. In real terms.

    Waiting two years and voting for people MORE conservative? Writing letters to the editor? Calling Congress?

    What does that look like in real terms? What does “holding Trump accountable” look like beyond the rhetoric?

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Robert Reich: The Democratic Party Needs To Clean House #58351
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Alan Grayson commissioned a full nationwide poll 2 days after the election. Cross tabs and everything.

    Bernie trounces Trump. So much so that Bernie would have won Texas. Let that sink in. We haven’t seen that kind of beating since Reagan in ’84.

    The media went for the paycheck and literally wouldn’t let anyone else have the mic because Trump got ratings.

    Well, so did the White Ford Bronco. The media used to have a sense of perspective and responsibility regarding the narrative. The media gave Trump over $2B in free media…BEFORE THE PRIMARIES WERE COMPLETE.

    The political inertia from that was massive.

    Lastly, I’m familiar with all sorts of conservative, liberal and now progressive thought having been a conservative growing up and as a young adult. Seriously, bnw, the only thing that’s off-putting is treating this like it’s a team sport.

    Honestly, the partisanship is just bullshit. The parties are bullshit. If you think the campaign rhetoric wasn’t bullshit… well, it’s all been saved, we can revisit it in 6 months or a year. And for the equivocation crowd…because that’s another bullshit American thing because principle’s been dead in this country for decades now… Obama’s been getting slammed around here for 7 plus years. I was his biggest supporter when he initially got elected and it wasn’t long before I was calling him, I believe it was a “sellout fuck”.

    So, and it’s just me, but I’m totally cool with anyone speaking to their beliefs and principles. Differing views are cool.

    That taunting stuff is small minded horseshit and if you want to be treated seriously and your ideas treated seriously, just don’t do it. Basically, the whole partisan schtick is just…tired, small-minded and thoughtless. It’s on the intellectual level of cheerleading.

    If you wanna do that, fine. Just understand that the aspirations for the discourse of this site is MUCH, MUCH higher than that. Bring your best and treat everyone with respect (which of course, you are completely capable of doing) and we’re all golden. Diversity of ideas stimulate vigorous debate.

    But, honestly, that taunting or team-first pom-pom waving shit won’t just get old… it’ll be taken as being openly aggressive and hostile and treated accordingly. The reason for that, just to be clear, is that I can’t think of anyone here who is partisan. I mean, I can’t think of any partisan Dems… well, maybe Waterfield, but had Hillary won, I’m certain he wouldn’t have been doing an end zone dance.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    That’s funny, bnw

    I mean, the Insurance industry doesn’t argue Climate Catastrophe. They sent the state of Florida into a PANIC earlier this year because they rezoned the state’s flood zones.

    Why?

    Climate Change.

    So, while they still spend money to elect guys who SAY they don’t believe in it, when it comes to their Risk Assessment business, they KNOW not only that Climate Change is real, but they have actuarial tables that are telling them that the risk requires further mitigation in the form of higher premiums and that more homes are in the “DANGER ZONE”.

    You can ignore a problem all you want. I nearly died doing that, so I’m kinda an expert at ignoring a problem until it’s (almost) too late.

    And no, no amount of posting facts, articles or peer-reviewed science journals will change your mind.

    But… as it all goes down… the truth will be undeniable. Well, presuming the dogma isn’t so strong that it overwhelms your free thought. I dunno. That’s to be seen on this subject.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Question about Hell #58208
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I’m reading Inferno, the Dan Brown book now. Good read.

    There’s a math issue in it. Almost feels like an homage to Michael Crichton.

    Funny you all should bring this up…

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58206
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    1) I don’t think the GOP has faith in democracy when it comes to voting rights, gerrymandering, voter suppression, voter disenfranchisement, or enacting popular policy. That wasn’t what I said. I specifically restricted my remarks to the primary process. And when it came to the primary process, they really DID let the voters decide. I mean, how many times did folks think Reince Priebus had lost his mind by not “doing something” to derail Trump? Instead, he didn’t alter the schedule, allowed for a LOT of debates, gave every candidate plenty of room to have a forum to reach potential voters and they chose Trump. There is NO DOUBT that if the DNC had played it as neutral as the RNC had, Bernie would have won the Primary and the election.

    2) As to why my trans child has reason to be afraid? Okay. Here’s where I try to stay calm. I realize that YOU may not feel antipathy for trans/gay/lesbian people or people of color. HOWEVER, just in the few days since the election, the level of actual violence against the LGBTQ+ community has SKYROCKETED. Now… if you don’t have any exposure to that community, you probably wouldn’t know about it because other than a few stories, much of it isn’t widely reported. But, and I say this as someone who’s learning… you really have no idea how bad it’s already gotten. The pictures are already STREAMING in. One easy example is a guy was just having a drink at a bar. Another guy walks up, smashes a bottle in his face and yells, “FAG”.

    The level of this antipathy has gone bonkers just since the election. Now, is the media covering all of these stories? HELL NO. You think that sellout, soulless son of a bitch Phil Griffin at MSNBC will allocate coverage? Of course not. The only coherent person on CNN is Van Jones. The rest of that crew makes the View seem like the Mt Rushmore of journalism. And it’s not like FoxNews is gonna be on the vanguard of LGBTQ+ coverage.

    So, the truth is that LGBTQ+ have REAL reasons to fear in some cases to be violently attacked for no damn reason and in some cases to be killed…and that’s real. Just because our sellout corporate media that was complicit in electing Trump won’t cover the fallout of his appeal to the worst elements of society is what it is.

    I’m fine with critiquing white liberals who say nonsensical things like “electing Trump is the worst thing this country has ever done”. Umm…no.

    But I live in a conservative county in Central Florida… and I don’t just THINK that things have changed. I KNOW they have. People proudly flew confederate flags and shouted FAG and talked racist/homophobic/xenophobic nonsense BEFORE Trump. I’m not surprised it’s escalated to violence.

    I’m only surprised at how quickly it’s escalated and to the degree.

    The fear is real and based on real violence. I mean it took the Rodney King beating caught on video for white America to wrap their heads around the idea that sometimes cops just beat the shit out of black people for no reason. It took the Matthew Shepherd murder for straight America to see that it actually happens that gay people can be brutally murdered for just walking down a road…and literally nothing else.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: "Something positive to read" ? #58183
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    edit: sorry if I double posted this. Thought it got lost…

    Posted this on Facebook. Tried to post this before, but it didn’t work, so here goes gain. This forums software…argh. Anyway… I included a preamble which you all don’t need, but here’s the whole post.

    Just got back from the Trump Protest in Sarasota and wanted to share some thoughts.

    A primer to my posts to those that don’t know me (normally I post in forums):

    1) my posts are long. If that’s not okay. Don’t read, but don’t complain about the length. I hate bumper sticker sloganeering. I want to get into the weeds on issues, so I take the time and space to articulate my thoughts.

    2) I am very thoughtful and mindful. I don’t come by these thoughts cavalierly, nor are they unsupported by facts, evidence, logic, reason and substantive deliberation.

    3) I want to be part of a conversation. Don’t mistake my stridency for authority. If I’m wrong, I’ll be the first to admit it. What I have is enthusiasm, not ego.

    4) What governs my drive is principle, not politics, partisanship or personal gain. I won’t take the time or space to articulate every instance where I’ve lived my principles.

    I dunno how this foray into social media will go, but… here goes.

    So… just got back from the protest. I have some thoughts.

    Firstly, I’m always heartened when individuals exercise their rights under the Constitution, especially the First Amendment. To me that is key to fulfilling the promise of the Declaration of Independence which was the preamble to our democracy and ultimately a promise of our principle and promise, which states that: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. So to see people across this land exercise their rights…and be ABLE to do so. Well, I was heartened.

    Secondly, based on the appointments, it’s clear that Pence is setting himself up to be the next Dick Cheney. Virtually every appointment looks to be a hard right Conservative and many are actually against much of what Trump ran on. Many people opposed Bush not realizing they were really fighting Cheney. Well… when people think they’re fighting Trump, they’re really going to be fighting Pence and the hard right. We haven’t seen the kind of fight we’re going to need since the 60s. NOT KIDDING. We are going to need MILLIONS in the streets on a weekly basis to truly drive the change that must happen.

    Thirdly, I’m sorry that this didn’t happen sooner. Yes, Bernie had YUGE crowds, but we knew in freakin’ MAY after that disgrace of a primary season that the DNC had no faith in democracy. At least the Republicans had faith in democracy. They were willing to let their party burn to the ground, but…they let the people who showed up at caucuses and primaries decide WITHOUT anyone at RNC HQ deciding the outcome. Contrast that with the DNC essentially trying to fix the outcome for Clinton even as solid data came in that Hillary looked weak against Trump, but Trump would get roflstomped by Sanders. Heck, Alan Grayson did a poll two days after the Election and Bernie wouldn’t have just won… Bernie would have won TEXAS!!! Think about that. So while we’re fighting, we have to ALWAYS remember that half measures often count for nothing at all. Buh-bye corporate sell-out Dems.

    Fourthly, I’m mixed, though I pass for white. I’m a Service-Connected Disabled Vet. I could sit back and hope to protect my trans child under my umbrella of supposed “protection” or privilege or whatever. But actually…I can’t. Because…until, we’re all free, NONE OF US IS FREE. And that’s just not abstract. Hey Bush and Obama fans. Here’s a reason why those of us on principle hated Patriot Act. Suspension of Habeas Corpus for one. And the killing of the Dallas shooter was the first use of a drone (technically a bomb bot) against a US citizen on US soil. How long before THAT line is crossed by the DOJ, NSA, FBI, CIA or other Federal, State and Local agencies under President Trump. And how long before we see a return of Extraordinary Rendition, Torture, Black Sites and the like. Think that’s crazy? Did anyone not see what the Boston PD looked like after the Boston Marathon bombing? They looked better equipped than our troops were during the Surge in Iraq.
    The culture wars are just the beginning. Couple that with authoritarians who have access to the least accountable, most powerful and secretive intelligence apparatus on the planet and…well, there is serious cause for concern. We MUST support our Constitution. ALL of our freedom depends on it.
    Lastly, in many ways the fog has been lifted. In ways great and small, the racists, corporatists, the political manipulators… all have been exposed. And all, but the racists prefer the fog of obfuscation and misdirection. The clarity of this moment must be recognized so that people of conscience can truly see what is happening and act accordingly (and no, signing an online petition isn’t “action”).
    In the coming days, there will be distraction, diversion, dismissal and derision. That cannot be allowed to stand. Clarity and focus must be maintained.

    I joined the US Navy because I wanted to continue a family tradition of service, to support and defend the Constitution, to serve my country….all of it.

    I still want every last person in this country to be able to live their truth. I want part of that truth to be what is enshrined in our Declaration of Independence…the self-evident truth that as an American…as a human being… that all are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    • This reply was modified 8 years ago by Mackeyser.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58137
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Posted this on Facebook. The formatting is shyte because… well, I won’t go into my rant on the forum software…again. I’m happy for the place, leaky roof and all. Has that “rebel HQ on Hoth” feel. Just kidding. Kinda. Anyway, posted this on Facebook. I’ll try to clean up some of the formatting, but if anything is unclear or totally weird, lemme know. Content-wise, it is what it is. The preamble is unnecessary for you all, but I copied it en toto.

    Just got back from the Trump Protest in Sarasota and wanted to share some thoughts.

    A primer to my posts to those that don’t know me (normally I post in forums):

    1) my posts are long. If that’s not okay. Don’t read, but don’t complain about the length. I hate bumper sticker sloganeering. I want to get into the weeds on issues, so I take the time and space to articulate my thoughts.

    2) I am very thoughtful and mindful. I don’t come by these thoughts cavalierly, nor are they unsupported by facts, evidence, logic, reason and substantive deliberation.

    3) I want to be part of a conversation. Don’t mistake my stridency for authority. If I’m wrong, I’ll be the first to admit it. What I have is enthusiasm, not ego.

    4) What governs my drive is principle, not politics, partisanship or personal gain. I won’t take the time or space to articulate every instance where I’ve lived my principles.

    I dunno how this foray into social media will go, but… here goes.

    So… just got back from the protest. I have some thoughts.

    Firstly, I’m always heartened when individuals exercise their rights under the Constitution, especially the First Amendment. To me that is key to fulfilling the promise of the Declaration of Independence which was the preamble to our democracy and ultimately a promise of our principle and promise, which states that: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. So to see people across this land exercise their rights…and be ABLE to do so. Well, I was heartened.

    Secondly, based on the appointments, it’s clear that Pence is setting himself up to be the next Dick Cheney. Virtually every appointment looks to be a hard right Conservative and many are actually against much of what Trump ran on. Many people opposed Bush not realizing they were really fighting Cheney. Well… when people think they’re fighting Trump, they’re really going to be fighting Pence and the hard right. We haven’t seen the kind of fight we’re going to need since the 60s. NOT KIDDING. We are going to need MILLIONS in the streets on a weekly basis to truly drive the change that must happen.

    Thirdly, I’m sorry that this didn’t happen sooner. Yes, Bernie had YUGE crowds, but we knew in freakin’ MAY after that disgrace of a primary season that the DNC had no faith in democracy. At least the Republicans had faith in democracy. They were willing to let their party burn to the ground, but…they let the people who showed up at caucuses and primaries decide WITHOUT anyone at RNC HQ deciding the outcome. Contrast that with the DNC essentially trying to fix the outcome for Clinton even as solid data came in that Hillary looked weak against Trump, but Trump would get roflstomped by Sanders. Heck, Alan Grayson did a poll two days after the Election and Bernie wouldn’t have just won… Bernie would have won TEXAS!!! Think about that. So while we’re fighting, we have to ALWAYS remember that half measures often count for nothing at all. Buh-bye corporate sell-out Dems.

    Fourthly, I’m mixed, though I pass for white. I’m a Service-Connected Disabled Vet. I could sit back and hope to protect my trans child under my umbrella of supposed “protection” or privilege or whatever. But actually…I can’t. Because…until, we’re all free, NONE OF US IS FREE. And that’s just not abstract. Hey Bush and Obama fans. Here’s a reason why those of us on principle hated Patriot Act. Suspension of Habeas Corpus for one. And the killing of the Dallas shooter was the first use of a drone (technically a bomb bot) against a US citizen on US soil. How long before THAT line is crossed by the DOJ, NSA, FBI, CIA or other Federal, State and Local agencies under President Trump. And how long before we see a return of Extraordinary Rendition, Torture, Black Sites and the like. Think that’s crazy? Did anyone not see what the Boston PD looked like after the Boston Marathon bombing? They looked better equipped than our troops were during the Surge in Iraq.

    The culture wars are just the beginning. Couple that with authoritarians who have access to the least accountable, most powerful and secretive intelligence apparatus on the planet and…well, there is serious cause for concern. We MUST support our Constitution. ALL of our freedom depends on it.

    Lastly, in many ways the fog has been lifted. In ways great and small, the racists, corporatists, the political manipulators… all have been exposed. And all, but the racists prefer the fog of obfuscation and misdirection. The clarity of this moment must be recognized so that people of conscience can truly see what is happening and act accordingly (and no, signing an online petition isn’t “action”).
    In the coming days, there will be distraction, diversion, dismissal and derision. That cannot be allowed to stand. Clarity and focus must be maintained.

    I joined the US Navy because I wanted to continue a family tradition of service, to support and defend the Constitution, to serve my country….all of it.

    I still want every last person in this country to be able to live their truth. I want part of that truth to be what is enshrined in our Declaration of Independence…the self-evident truth that as an American…as a human being… that all are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Getting outta hand now #57447
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I’ve been really even handed here.

    But… if I had to wager… I’d bet dollars to donuts that the shooter was the Trump supporter.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Clinton's concession speech. #57446
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    With the embrace of Climate denial, it’s clear I’ll need to move far away from Florida…

    Gonna take some time, but this pretty much cinches it. I 8 years of “going dirty” versus going Green, the extent of damage to the Climate will be massive.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: another appointment (EPA) … brace yourself #57436
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    All right.

    So… it’s scorched earth. Literally.

    Got it.

    Game on.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Clinton's concession speech. #57423
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    The silver lining is that…hopefully…the progressives who are mad as hell and motivated with Bernie’s run (and many kept at it through the election) will take the mantle and keep fighting and can now do so without the DNC cockblocking them.

    Cuz…fuck the corporate sellout DNC. They’ve been slamming progressives…even co-opting the progressive moniker while taking on virtually no actual progressive positions…even engaging in slimy character assassination that would make Karl Rove proud…all so that they could keep those corporate bucks rolling in.

    Margin call, bitches.

    Now is the time to get to do the REAL, Progressive work and hopefully not have to deal with any more DNC, centrist interference.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Clinton's concession speech. #57419
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Let’s be clear.

    I’m not defending Trump. Nor do I think he was virtuous in all of this. The opposite of that, actually.

    But… TWO people stood outside of factories that have closed or were about to close and spoke DIRECTLY to the worries and concerns of workers.

    BERNIE…and…Trump.

    Of course it was all a show.

    But think about it. Clinton didn’t even care enough to do the show part…

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Clinton's concession speech. #57412
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I don’t disagree with that…mostly.

    He put himself on the hook in his first speech that at the very least, he’s going to focus on infrastructure. If he does that, as we know, it’ll amount to stimulus and will jump start the economy.

    It’s essentially using Bernie’s plan and I don’t doubt that as Trump has done on many occasions, he’ll do a call back to this because he’s a real estate guy and it’s what he knows.

    He’ll outsource the social policy and even foreign policy which already is giving me the willies.

    So, yeah, on a ton of stuff, both of them sold the people a bill of goods. Problem was that on ONE thing, he didn’t lie. And it turned out to be one thing that a LOT of Americans really, really care about. Doesn’t mean his plan is worth a damn.

    But…he at least had the guts to call shit…shit.

    And in THIS election… that was the difference. The turd with a piece of corn in it versus the turd without….

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Clinton's concession speech. #57383
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Oh, I know.

    The point was that Trump was actually speaking to people’s real concerns. Carrier REALLY moved a REAL factory to Mexico…during this election. Ford is REALLY moving a REAL factory to Mexico…just after the election.

    Clinton’s hands are all over those trade policies and rather than admit the obvious, she couldn’t repudiate her Wall Street ties.

    So, ya know what? God Bless. She can retire with her many, many millions and fly around on her private jets taking millions for the Clinton Foundation.

    What she can’t do is say she believes in the science of Climate Catastrophe while being all in on at LEAST a full 50 year commitment to Natural Gas as a transition from coal. Especially in light of the NOAA report that we may see as much as 9 FEET of sea level rise in 20 years…not 200 years…TWENTY. And thus far, we’ve outperformed every single worst case scenario.

    What she can’t do is say she’s for working people while selling the preposterous trade deals around the world.

    What she can’t do is say she cares about children and bring up that child in Syria while never mentioning all the innocent children killed by drone strikes in Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other places.

    What she can’t do is stand with John Lewis and criticize Republican voter suppression and then turn around and disenfranchise her own opponent’s supporters by the hundreds of thousands.

    What she can’t do is complain about being unfairly portrayed or maligned while engaging in the slimiest character assassination.

    I think many knew what Trump was…and what he wasn’t.

    I surely didn’t vote for him. NEVER would. Unlike Clinton apologists, tho, I hear why people would.

    And honestly, anyone who entertains “anyone who voted for Trump is a racist” is part of the problem.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Michael Moore’s “Morning After To-Do List” #57377
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I dunno, wv.

    He was the one who on Morning Joe, I believe, articulated Trump’s “rust belt strategy” and said Trump could win without Florida or North Carolina (which is true, we don’t have the full count, yet)

    And he was full on for Bernie and stumped for Bernie and was one of the few who dared to caution about the rust belt issues.

    There were lots of people who sold out to the Clintons. I dunno that I’d count Moore among them.

    I could be wrong.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Clinton's concession speech. #57364
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I don’t think that, Billy. I think X is onto something.

    I live in Central Florida and the visceral hatred for the establishment is palpable. I KNEW Trump was going to win Florida WEEKS ago. It was so clear.

    Last week, Trump would hold rallies and thousands would attend. Clinton held a rally north of Tampa without any of the big name surrogates…so no FLOTUS, no POTUS, no Joe Biden, no Katie Perry, etc. She drew LESS THAN 300. Are you kidding me? In the final week of one of the most contentious campaigns in our nation’s history in perhaps the most contested swing state…she couldn’t get 300 supporters to show up for a rally??? Really???

    Lots of people in the rust belt and the deep south have been deeply impacted by NAFTA, CAFTA and other really horrible trade deals. I’ve talked with plenty of people, Dems, Reps and totally not political people at all who felt compelled to vote for Trump because they felt that if someone didn’t do something about these trade deals, their children would be part of a permanent underclass.

    What the Dems failed to do is focus on the economy and the real issues. Hillary couldn’t because she believes in the very mechanisms that caused many of these ills and will cause further damage. And the Democratic political machine wasn’t willing to do what the RNC did and go hands off and let the people decide from day one.

    Are there some racists who are Trump supporters? Yes. Have many racists used this to come out from cover and put their beliefs and behaviors on display? Yes.

    Doesn’t change that the fights are the same as they were before and with the aging population, if the Republicans want to start a culture war with this aging, browning population, they really risk a severe swing to the left (which is what Susan Sarandon was talking about).

    I get the alt-right concern and racist concerns and as someone with a trans child, I’m already reading stories of trans/gay hate crimes and people who are just being complete racist assholes. To say I’m concerned is an understatement. I’m IN this fight to the last cell of my body.

    But it wouldn’t have been this way if the fucking Dems had actually believed in democracy in a real way. Yet another reason why my HATE for Clinton is REAL.

    We have President Trump because she was too ambitious to allow for a fair fight that might have allowed for a President Sanders.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    in reply to: Democracy Lost #57352
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I hate just about everything that’s on the Republican agenda.

    And…they won because Trump told the truth about ONE thing… NAFTA is bullshit. (just look how he flipped all those rust belt states…which Michael Moore called months ago, btw) And Hillary just couldn’t bring herself to just agree…and because for all of the RNC’s flaws… Reince Priebus let the process play out and let the people decide.

    The Dems worked overtime to TELL the people who was going to be the nominee and worked overtime to stifle Bernie instead of have more debates and encourage voter turnout, celebrate the rallies and embrace the realization that Hillary missed her window.

    What REALLY pisses me off is that while so many liberals piss and moan about Republican voter suppression efforts, they sat and defended the DNC doing the same shit and worse. That hypocritical bullshit just doesn’t have a long shelf life and karma is a bitch.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

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