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InvaderRamModerator
you’re missing the point, zn. if he wasn’t that ready. and you know. i accept that he may not have been. you don’t pick him number one overall.
Sure you do. If you think he is the better 10-15 year qb.
The only metric here that DOESN’T count is the “how did he do in year 1” metric.
How he does as a rookie, starting or not starting, has nothing to do with his longterm value and his value as a pick.
And of course remember, most high-picked qbs start as rookies because the team had no choice.
Most struggle. Only a small percentage haven’t. A team that starts a high-picked rookie qb is doing it, far more often than not, because they are rebuilding, have no choice, and are resigned to living with the losses. They were picking a qb high in the first place not because they traded up, but because they were bad and had to rebuild.
if he’s that much of a project then i submit you absolutely have no clue if he is the better qb.
you’re just wildly gambling.
wentz and prescott started because they had to.
i get that.
fisher thought he had the luxury of not having to start him. i get that too. i even agreed with it. i thought they’d have the running game to support case and win.
they didn’t. the season is lost. it’s gone. it’s time to move on. we will see if fisher has.
and i’m not actually saying if goff is one way or another. i am saying that IF goff is that much a project you don’t pick him number one.
i don’t think he is. i think either fisher is stubborn. or stupid. or both. he has to realize this season is done.
InvaderRamModeratorand also, zn. i maintain if the running game is working. then yeah. the dynamic changes, and you keep case in there. let goff learn, and case gives you a chance to win. but the running game isn’t working. that to me is the problem. without that there’s no point in putting keenum out there. it’s not going to work. therefore you put goff in and see what you have. if it doesn’t work, you at least have a better idea of what you have to work on.
InvaderRamModeratoryou’re missing the point, zn. if he wasn’t that ready. and you know. i accept that he may not have been. you don’t pick him number one overall.
you definitely don’t trade up for a guy who is that much of a project. that much of a gamble.
also. i’m not saying case is the problem. what i am saying is that case needed the running game to be able to work. everyone knew that. well the running game is shit. so why keep trotting out a qb who is useless without a running game?
it’s not going to get fixed. the running game that is. at this point it’s useless to keep putting out a qb who can’t operate under these conditions. you say you’re comfortable putting goff out if you need to. well at this point that’s what you do. the rams need to find out where he is at this point. even if you have to bench him later you do that. i think eli went through similar struggles and came out fine.
what you don’t do is keep putting out a qb who is ineffective due to the conditions round him.
and again. if goff was so much of a project that you couldn’t put him out there, you don’t select him number one overall. you don’t trade away your future on that big of a risk.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
InvaderRamModeratorthe defense is getting wasted with such bad offense.
also. if goff really isn’t ready to play yet. the rams made a huge mistake in trading away THAT much draft capital on a qb who is so underdeveloped that he can’t beat out a backup qb.
i’m sorry. but while the game wasn’t lost by case. and i will also add. i felt bad for case when the chants came out for goff. and they came out as early as the second quarter. i don’t know how loud it was on television. but watching it live. the chants for goff were loud. but at this point. case has no business being on the field. unless mannion and goff are that bad. and again. i’ll say it again. if goff is that underdeveloped as a qb. the rams had absolutely no business trading away the future for him. an unnecessary gamble. now if what they say is true. and they do feel comfortable trotting goff out there if needed. then they need to do it NOW. case can’t carry this offense. this team is not going to win with case and an anemic running game.
so put him out there. and if he isn’t prepared to go out there. then step down. do not continue coaching for this team if you traded up to the number one pick for a qb project. bradford, mariota, luck, wentz, winston. they all were prepared to play their first year. if he’s that much of a project, then you don’t take him number one. you CERTAINLY don’t trade UP and give up precious first and second rounders to draft that much of an unknown.
and ok. yeah. maybe the rams didn’t realize that at first. but if they didn’t know. then they don’t know as much football as they think they know. and they still need to go.
and to be quite frank. i don’t expect goff to play that much better than case. but i expect him to play at least as well. and with the promise that he will eventually be better.
because let’s face it. without the running game. case is useless. it’d be one thing if the running game was humming. then i certainly understand keeping case in there. the dynamic of the offense changes, and you let case manage the offense with goff continuing to learn.
but the running game is not there. case can’t do much more than what he’s doing which isn’t much. you say you’re comfortable with goff going in to play if necessary. well then play him. cuz your season is shot. it’s been obvious for awhile the running game is going nowhere.
i really think this coaching staff has no idea what they’re doing.
sorry. just very frustrated right now.
November 7, 2016 at 8:55 am in reply to: something's wrong…and it really gets down to one major thing #57107InvaderRamModeratorLooks like 75% of the offensive plays today were passes.
12 carries for Gurley.
Unless somebody can convince me otherwise, I am inclined to suspect Boras. I mean…everything else is the same or better on offense, but their performance is worse.
i think it’s more than just boras. i think the entire coaching staff needs to be overhauled.
this running game has been a problem since before boras was promoted to offensive coordinator. gurley had 4-5 tremendous games and then fell off a cliff. some of it is gurley. some of it is defenses adjusted to this running game, and the rams have not been able to counter. some of it is also the oline. the coaching staff misjudged the talent. the players are dumb. the players are undisciplined. but also. boudreau is not able to get through to these guys.
i think it’s at the point where fisher and the entire staff needs to go. they’ve lost this team. i believe this roster has talent, but fisher and company have failed to properly extract that talent from this team and convert it to production.
i know people will disagree with me, but he has absolutely lost this team. and i was not a big proponent of firing him. i thought the rams needed stability first and foremost. especially with the drafting of goff. but this team needs a complete change. better to do it now than to have to reprogram goff three years later. i also think they need to draft an offensive head coach. particularly one adept at developing quarterbacks.
November 5, 2016 at 8:06 pm in reply to: Nothin would be fina than beatin Carolina … can they do it? #56927InvaderRamModeratorspecial teams too. let’s get that st cylinder going.
there’s a chance i might be going to the game too, so it’d be nice to top that off with sweet victory!
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
November 5, 2016 at 5:34 pm in reply to: Dave Chappelle Defends Trump, Rips Clinton: ‘She’s Not Right and We All Know It’ #56919InvaderRamModeratorhe’s still voting for clinton though it should be noted.
this is a tough on for sure. who stinks more? clinton or trump? that’s tough.
InvaderRamModeratorThis system-justifying motive sometimes produces the phenomenon known as out-group favoritism, an acceptance of inferiority among low-status groups and a positive image of relatively higher status groups.
i find this to be very true.
InvaderRamModeratoron a small scale of 5 million or even 10 million i can see it working. but on a scale of 7 billion with all sorts of different belief systems and interests i think it breaks down.
so i understand and agree with the idea that systems can make people better or worse, but i also think that people affect the system as well. not just a one way street.
InvaderRamModeratoryeah i’ve read and heard of many examples of where gmos can and do make a very positive impact on our lives.
my question is why can’t we have open source gmos?
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
InvaderRamModeratorBut calling it Wealth Disparity violates their belief that “anybody can make it in America through hard work, etc.” It sounds like a “liberal” complaint, as if the solution is higher taxes, or something.
yeah. that’s a big part of it. the blame is put on the people who fail. no recognition of the fact that maybe they’re being shat on.
InvaderRamModeratorRight now, the richest 20 Americans hold more wealth than half the population. The richest 1% holds more than the bottom 99% combined. Worldwide, just 60 people hold more wealth than the bottom half of the world’s population — as in, roughly 3.5 BILLION people.
To me, that’s obscene.
Another likely factor in the indifference of some when it comes to inequality: They don’t get that wealth held by the rich is wealth no one else can then hold. Wealth is finite. Assets are finite. Money supply is finite. Payrolls are finite. A billionaire’s money can’t exist in his or her pocket and yours at the same time . . . so their wealth automatically and necessarily diminishes yours. That’s just math. A billion dollars in John Doe’s hand is a billion dollars taken out of the pool for anyone else.
Again, it’s just math. And too many Americans can’t seem to do math.
ya know. i say some of these things to people. how the number of billionaires increases every year. and the number of poor grows even higher.
most people shrug. or there’s a sense of resignation. the rich are going to do what they want, and we are powerless to stop it. a few even place the blame on the poor for taking their money from welfare and government assistance and whatnot and no mention of the rich and their greed.
i have no idea why that is. yeah a lot of it might be a result of indoctrination or just ignorance. but i think also. on some level. humans are just pieces of shit.
i mean can clinton or trump really help who they are? they just are who they are. i don’t think they’re evil. i think they’re no more evil than the “oppressed poor people”.
they just do what they do and have no idea why they do what they do just like every other human on the planet and the result is just one big hot mess.
perhaps i’m making no sense right now. just rambling.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
InvaderRamModeratorhonestly i don’t think people care. even if you were able to somehow shed more light on it or there was more media coverage on these issues.
i don’t think people care all that much about disparity in wealth, empire building, clandestine organizations. that’s the sense i get.
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Well what do you think Americans ‘do’ care about?w
vi think people are interested in protecting what’s theirs.
i think they like the notion of equality but not at the expense of their own security.
or maybe i’m just feeling really pessimistic these days.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
InvaderRamModeratorhonestly i don’t think people care. even if you were able to somehow shed more light on it or there was more media coverage on these issues.
i don’t think people care all that much about disparity in wealth, empire building, clandestine organizations. that’s the sense i get.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
InvaderRamModeratorIs Jeff Fisher’s extension with the Rams still on the table?
Alden Gonzalez
Now, I would like to see the Rams set up more screen passes for Gurley, who has caught only four of those. And it would be nice to see him have more runs where he is bouncing it to the outside as opposed to fighting between the tackles.
This is what I’ve been saying.
is this a case of the oc needing to do a better job of getting his best player in more favorable situations?
InvaderRamModeratorwho knows if it’s even true, but multiple female comics have come forward.
his male comic friends have protected him. female comics are supposedly afraid to speak up for fear of repercussions.
if multiple sources are talking about this, i don’t know… and he isn’t exactly denying it either.
http://defamer.gawker.com/louis-c-k-will-call-you-up-to-talk-about-his-alleged-s-1687820755
InvaderRamModeratori’ve gotten really down on louis ck ever since i found out he quite possibly could have sexually assaulted multiple women and coerced them into watching him masturbate.
InvaderRamModeratorEh. I’m not so sure I’m impressed with your list, zn.
After 5 other teams, Collins ended up with the Titans and had one good season. He was replaced the following year. So I’m not sure why you think Collins had his best years under Fisher. While Bradford may have had his best year under Fisher, he never had a GREAT year–which is what you want from a #1 pick.
Foles melted down. It happens. It happened under Fisher.
Fisher has not(besides McNair) impressed me with QBs. So I stand by my point. Fisher does not have a great history with QBs–especially with no running game.
I will say I like what Keenum is doing with his limited ability. And I thought Mannion looked better in pre-season.
But we’re talking about the #1 pick in the draft. He has to be a top tier guy. He has to be. You don’t draft a “game manager” at #1. If you give up all those picks you do it for greatness.
I hope you’re right. I hope that Goff is all of that. He has to be because if they missed on him they will suffer for years.
I hope you’re right.
But I just look at Fisher and his history and think it would have been wiser to take the most pro-ready guy. No one disputed that was Wentz.
But I get it–the Rams are playing the long game. If Goff becomes Montana I can sit down and shut up and smile. And breathe s sigh of relief. And laugh at how silly my post was when I questioned the pick. And I’ll love every minute of it.
you make very good points.
not that i think fisher is necessarily bad for goff.
but is he the best?
November 1, 2016 at 7:16 pm in reply to: Is Fisher's extension with the Rams still on the table? #56584InvaderRamModeratorya know. i wouldn’t have said this before, but this past week i’ve been thinking that it might be time for the rams to let fisher go. he’s done a good job turning this team around, but i’m not sure how much further he can take them.
josh mcdaniels is supposedly itching to get another hc job. he’s done a great job in new england. he’s many years wiser and more experienced than his first go around when he was only 33 years old. i think he’d be worth some vetting by the rams front office. this would have to be a very attractive position for someone.
talented defense, talented running back, and a blue chip qb prospect.
InvaderRamModeratorwho knows. he might be ready now. he definitely wasn’t ready week 1. but he might be ready now.
i also think this is a case of his skill set being so good that they were willing to be patient even though wentz was the more productive ready qb or maybe they underestimated the fact that he came from a pro style offense.
and maybe this is also just a case of fisher’s philosophy being that he is going to bring them along slowly. i think he has a history of doing that in general.
in any case… start him already…
hehe.
InvaderRamModeratorWell, in his last 15 starts Gurley has had only one 100 yard game and only three games where he’s averaged at least 4 yards per carry. So the issue with the running game didn’t start this season. It goes back to the middle of last season.
But I guess all we can do is wait and see how things develop over the rest of this season and hope they improve.
yeah. if it was just limited to this season i wouldn’t be nearly as concerned.
i don’t know what the cause is either, but it’s the responsibility of this coaching staff to figure it out. and it’d be nice if they could figure these things from the start of the season.
defense? i’m more forgiving they’ve dealt with injuries this year and last. and as zn pointed out they’re still ranked pretty high. they did well enough to win the last game.
it’s the running game that has really let this team down.
InvaderRamModeratornow watch the rams squeak out a 12-9 win next week at home.
October 30, 2016 at 3:34 pm in reply to: Rams face questions about their quarterback and run game at the bye week #56377InvaderRamModeratorWell, true the Rams had a great o-line back then and Dickerson was Dickerson but I don’t think you need an o-line full of all-pros to run effectively against those fronts when you have a great back. Gurley is a generational talent. He has HOF level skills. He just needs a crease and he’s gone. But the Rams o-line has been so overmatched that Gurley can’t get anything going. He’s constantly being hit in the backfield or at the LOS. And the way defenses are playing the Rams certainly can’t be a surprise to Fisher. He knew coming into the season that the Rams o-line was going to face a lot of 8 and 9 man fronts. He must have thought the o-line would be able to hold up against them. Fisher still figured they would be able to run effectively. I think the o-line isn’t as good as Fisher thought it was going to be. PFF ranks them among the worst in the league. Fisher just overestimated how good his o-line is.
oline is a question mark. i also gotta question scheme and coaching. i wonder how effective boudreau is at coaching this line. i know he’s got a good reputation, but he also has a reputation for sometimes wearing out his welcome. i also have to question if boras is scheming to gurley’s strengths.
and there’s probably things gurley needs to work on himself. i also wonder if maybe losing that weight wasn’t a good thing for him.
also. if robinson is indeed a better fit athe guard then the staff needs a better job of identifying that and making the appropriate change.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
October 30, 2016 at 2:33 pm in reply to: Rams face questions about their quarterback and run game at the bye week #56374InvaderRamModeratorWhat is the definition of insanity? Not changing anything but expecting different results?
I get that the reason why the Rams can’t run is complex. It’s not all about the o-line. Some of it has to do with the defense not respecting the passing game and overloading the LOS. But as I’ve pointed out before Eric Dickerson set the NFL rushing record of 2,105 yards running against 8 and 9 man fronts that didn’t respect the Rams’ passing game. If you have competent run blocking you can still run effectively if you stick with it.
Not that moving GRob inside is magically going to fix the running game but it could help. Certainly can’t hurt.
BTW, I think Snisher drastically overestimated this o-line’s ability after last season.
yeah. i pretty much agree with all that.
October 30, 2016 at 10:55 am in reply to: Rams face questions about their quarterback and run game at the bye week #56352InvaderRamModeratorFisher said he had given no consideration to offensive line changes other than working guard Jamon Brown back into the rotation when he returns from a hand injury.
This isn’t the first time I’ve said this but I think I’d like to see GRob move to left guard and Saffold take over at LT. Saffold was a decent LT a few years ago and the move inside to guard would take advantage of GRob’s strength…mauling defenders in the run game.
they have to change something.
October 30, 2016 at 10:49 am in reply to: Rams face questions about their quarterback and run game at the bye week #56350InvaderRamModeratorHe leads a Rams offense that ranks 30th among 32 teams in the NFL, averaging 307.6 yards per game. The Rams are 25th in passing, 29th in rushing.
These numbers, IMO, are based on a mistake. The mistake is, the numbers are season averages which count the 1st 2 games. I argue that they improved so much in so many areas on offense after those 2 games that averages that include them give a false picture. If you look at the last 5 games they are not nearly that bad. The more realistic picture would come from an average of the last 5 games, not all 7 including obviously the 1st 2. In fact the first 2 games are so bad they drag stats down for the season in several categories.
And I prove that with numbers. Here: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/where-does-the-offense-rank-last-3-games/
When you see the differences, they’re dramatic.
i’ll wait until the end of the season, but discounting the first two weeks is also discounting what other team did their first two weeks.
this offense is bad. but i don’t blame keenum. the problem is that atrocious run game.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
InvaderRamModeratoryeah. i can forgive the defensive performance. they’ve struggled with injuries. but no excuse for the run game. they have a blue chip running back. the offensive line has been healthy.
no excuse for it.
InvaderRamModeratorima go out on a limb and say goff starts against carolina…
October 26, 2016 at 8:52 pm in reply to: Fisher responds to Jason Cole report that "Goff is a long way away" #56146InvaderRamModeratori can see the fear right through his sunglasses.
October 26, 2016 at 8:49 pm in reply to: informal poll: will the Rams win or lose during bye week? #56145InvaderRamModeratorya never know… wouldn’t be surprised to see a player decide to have a little too much fun during the bye weekend. then for sure the rams lose, and the bye week wins…
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