Rams face questions about their quarterback and run game at the bye week

This topic has 11 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by zn.

Viewing 12 posts - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)

Author

Posts
October 30, 2016 at 4:08 am #56332

zn
Moderator

Rams face questions about their quarterback and run game at the bye week

Gary Klein

http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-bye-20161029-snap-story.html

An open date Sunday gave Rams coaches, players and front-office executives a week to ponder where they are — and where they might be going — before they begin preparation for next week’s game against the Carolina Panthers at the Coliseum.

The break also provided time to consider changes in the wake of their 3-4 record and three-game losing streak.

No major moves appear forthcoming as the season approaches the midpoint.

Based on Coach Jeff Fisher’s comments, there won’t be any significant philosophical shifts or personnel overhauls. There might not be any subtle ones either, the Rams seemingly confident that the eventual return of injured starters such as cornerback Trumaine Johnson and defensive lineman Michael Brockers will help them return to their early-season winning ways.

If there is a move, it could come by Tuesday’s NFL trade deadline.

Two years ago, the Rams acquired safety Mark Barron from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in a trade-deadline deal. Barron morphed into a hybrid linebacker four games into the 2015 season and was one of the top playmakers early this season.

Short of an unexpected trade, or a weekend epiphany by Fisher and the Rams brain trust, Case Keenum will remain the Rams’ starting quarterback.

Despite four interceptions in a 17-10 loss to the New York Giants in London, and the inability to convert late drives into points in each of the last three games, Keenum is expected to start against the Panthers.

Rookie Jared Goff, the No. 1 pick in the draft, took first-team snaps last week. But that appeared more developmental exercise than preparation to start.

On Sunday, at least.

If the Rams’ losing streak continues, or if they remain on track for another 7-9 or similar finish, will they keep the 22-year-old Goff sidelined as other NFL rookie quarterbacks flourish?

Keenum, who had his college number retired Saturday by the University of Houston, has passed for eight touchdowns with 10 interceptions. He leads a Rams offense that ranks 30th among 32 teams in the NFL, averaging 307.6 yards per game. The Rams are 25th in passing, 29th in rushing.

Other than the Keenum/Goff issue, the major question surrounding the offense remains Todd Gurley and the running game.

“We have to get the run game going,” Fisher said, “and it all really starts there.”

Gurley has looked nothing like the rookie who rushed for 1,106 yards and 10 touchdowns last season. He is averaging 57.6 yards per game, which ranks 26th in the league. He is averaging only three yards per carry, and his longest gain went for only 16 yards.

A player who amassed at least 128 yards rushing in each of his first four career starts has eclipsed the 100-yard mark only once in his last 15 games.

“Some games I’m hurting myself,” Gurley said after the loss to the Giants. “Some games I feel like I’m doing as much as I can.”

Offensive linemen also say that effort is not the issue stunting the running game.

A line that is essentially the same group that led the way for Gurley last season has encountered defensive schemes designed almost exclusively to stop the running back and force Keenum and his receivers to capitalize.

Left tackle Greg Robinson said he felt that early in the season the line “was on to something, but the opportunities presented themselves and we kind of didn’t get it going.”

Fisher said he had given no consideration to offensive line changes other than working guard Jamon Brown back into the rotation when he returns from a hand injury.

Veteran receiver Kenny Britt, in the final year of his contract, is on pace for a career season with 33 catches for 535 yards. Tavon Austin, who signed a four-year, $42-million extension in August, has a team-best 36 receptions. Brian Quick has provided highlights with a team-best three touchdown catches, but he also cost the Rams by apparently failing to pick up signals from Keenum on the final drive against the Giants.

Rookie receiver Pharoh Cooper has yet to make an impact and rookie receiver Nelson Spruce has not played in the regular season because of a knee injury.

While the Rams rank near the bottom of the league in offense, they have ascended into the top 10 in defense.

The Rams are ranked 10th, giving up 307.6 yards per game. They are 14th against the pass, 15th against the run.

The defense saved the Rams during a three-game win streak, played poorly the next two games and then righted itself against the Giants.

The unit could get stronger if the bye week enabled Brockers and ends Robert Quinn and William Hayes to fully recover from injuries that either sidelined or slowed them the last five games.

Middle linebacker Alec Ogletree has assumed leadership of a defense that initially struggled in the aftermath of an ankle injury that sidelined Johnson for two-plus games.

But cornerbacks E.J. Gaines and Troy Hill played fairly well against the Giants, giving the Rams depth upon Johnson’s return.

That is an encouraging development for a Rams organization that has nine games remaining in its first season in Southern California in more than two decades.

In this season of change, the Rams must decide whether more is warranted.

October 30, 2016 at 5:06 am #56334

zn
Moderator

zn wrote:

He leads a Rams offense that ranks 30th among 32 teams in the NFL, averaging 307.6 yards per game. The Rams are 25th in passing, 29th in rushing.

These numbers, IMO, are based on a mistake. The mistake is, the numbers are season averages which count the 1st 2 games. I argue that they improved so much in so many areas on offense after those 2 games that averages that include them give a false picture. If you look at the last 5 games they are not nearly that bad. The more realistic picture would come from an average of the last 5 games, not all 7 including obviously the 1st 2. In fact the first 2 games are so bad they drag stats down for the season in several categories.

And I prove that with numbers. Here: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/where-does-the-offense-rank-last-3-games/

When you see the differences, they’re dramatic.

October 30, 2016 at 9:32 am #56346

nittany ram
Moderator

Fisher said he had given no consideration to offensive line changes other than working guard Jamon Brown back into the rotation when he returns from a hand injury.

This isn’t the first time I’ve said this but I think I’d like to see GRob move to left guard and Saffold take over at LT. Saffold was a decent LT a few years ago and the move inside to guard would take advantage of GRob’s strength…mauling defenders in the run game.

October 30, 2016 at 10:49 am #56350
InvaderRam
Moderator
zn wrote:

zn wrote:

He leads a Rams offense that ranks 30th among 32 teams in the NFL, averaging 307.6 yards per game. The Rams are 25th in passing, 29th in rushing.

These numbers, IMO, are based on a mistake. The mistake is, the numbers are season averages which count the 1st 2 games. I argue that they improved so much in so many areas on offense after those 2 games that averages that include them give a false picture. If you look at the last 5 games they are not nearly that bad. The more realistic picture would come from an average of the last 5 games, not all 7 including obviously the 1st 2. In fact the first 2 games are so bad they drag stats down for the season in several categories.

And I prove that with numbers. Here: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/where-does-the-offense-rank-last-3-games/

When you see the differences, they’re dramatic.

i’ll wait until the end of the season, but discounting the first two weeks is also discounting what other team did their first two weeks.

this offense is bad. but i don’t blame keenum. the problem is that atrocious run game.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
October 30, 2016 at 10:55 am #56352

InvaderRam
Moderator

nittany ram wrote:

Fisher said he had given no consideration to offensive line changes other than working guard Jamon Brown back into the rotation when he returns from a hand injury.

This isn’t the first time I’ve said this but I think I’d like to see GRob move to left guard and Saffold take over at LT. Saffold was a decent LT a few years ago and the move inside to guard would take advantage of GRob’s strength…mauling defenders in the run game.

they have to change something.

October 30, 2016 at 12:19 pm #56363

nittany ram
Moderator

InvaderRam wrote:

nittany ram wrote:

Fisher said he had given no consideration to offensive line changes other than working guard Jamon Brown back into the rotation when he returns from a hand injury.

This isn’t the first time I’ve said this but I think I’d like to see GRob move to left guard and Saffold take over at LT. Saffold was a decent LT a few years ago and the move inside to guard would take advantage of GRob’s strength…mauling defenders in the run game.

they have to change something.

What is the definition of insanity? Not changing anything but expecting different results?

I get that the reason why the Rams can’t run is complex. It’s not all about the o-line. Some of it has to do with the defense not respecting the passing game and overloading the LOS. But as I’ve pointed out before Eric Dickerson set the NFL rushing record of 2,105 yards running against 8 and 9 man fronts that didn’t respect the Rams’ passing game. If you have competent run blocking you can still run effectively if you stick with it.

Not that moving GRob inside is magically going to fix the running game but it could help. Certainly can’t hurt.

BTW, I think Snisher drastically overestimated this o-line’s ability after last season.

October 30, 2016 at 2:07 pm #56373

zn
Moderator

nittany ram wrote:

What is the definition of insanity? Not changing anything but expecting different results?

I get that the reason why the Rams can’t run is complex. It’s not all about the o-line. Some of it has to do with the defense not respecting the passing game and overloading the LOS. But as I’ve pointed out before Eric Dickerson set the NFL rushing record of 2,105 yards running against 8 and 9 man fronts that didn’t respect the Rams’ passing game. If you have competent run blocking you can still run effectively if you stick with it.

Not that moving GRob inside is magically going to fix the running game but it could help. Certainly can’t hurt.

BTW, I think Snisher drastically overestimated this o-line’s ability after last season.

I don’t think Dickerson is a fair comparison. That was a multi-pro bowl OL with a HOF running back.

I don;t think there;s a world where you can say “if Eric Dickerson with a multi-pro bowl veteran OL can do it, why can’t anyone else.”

It’s like saying, if Tom Cruise and Keith Urban can appeal to Nicole Kidman, why can’t we.

…

October 30, 2016 at 2:33 pm #56374

InvaderRam
Moderator

nittany ram wrote:

What is the definition of insanity? Not changing anything but expecting different results?

I get that the reason why the Rams can’t run is complex. It’s not all about the o-line. Some of it has to do with the defense not respecting the passing game and overloading the LOS. But as I’ve pointed out before Eric Dickerson set the NFL rushing record of 2,105 yards running against 8 and 9 man fronts that didn’t respect the Rams’ passing game. If you have competent run blocking you can still run effectively if you stick with it.

Not that moving GRob inside is magically going to fix the running game but it could help. Certainly can’t hurt.

BTW, I think Snisher drastically overestimated this o-line’s ability after last season.

yeah. i pretty much agree with all that.

October 30, 2016 at 3:08 pm #56376

nittany ram
Moderator

zn wrote:

nittany ram wrote:

What is the definition of insanity? Not changing anything but expecting different results?

I get that the reason why the Rams can’t run is complex. It’s not all about the o-line. Some of it has to do with the defense not respecting the passing game and overloading the LOS. But as I’ve pointed out before Eric Dickerson set the NFL rushing record of 2,105 yards running against 8 and 9 man fronts that didn’t respect the Rams’ passing game. If you have competent run blocking you can still run effectively if you stick with it.

Not that moving GRob inside is magically going to fix the running game but it could help. Certainly can’t hurt.

BTW, I think Snisher drastically overestimated this o-line’s ability after last season.

I don’t think Dickerson is a fair comparison. That was a multi-pro bowl OL with a HOF running back.

I don;t think there;s a world where you can say “if Eric Dickerson with a multi-pro bowl veteran OL can do it, why can’t anyone else.”

It’s like saying, if Tom Cruise and Keith Urban can appeal to Nicole Kidman, why can’t we.

…

Well, true the Rams had a great o-line back then and Dickerson was Dickerson but I don’t think you need an o-line full of all-pros to run effectively against those fronts when you have a great back. Gurley is a generational talent. He has HOF level skills. He just needs a crease and he’s gone. But the Rams o-line has been so overmatched that Gurley can’t get anything going. He’s constantly being hit in the backfield or at the LOS. And the way defenses are playing the Rams certainly can’t be a surprise to Fisher. He knew coming into the season that the Rams o-line was going to face a lot of 8 and 9 man fronts. He must have thought the o-line would be able to hold up against them. Fisher still figured they would be able to run effectively. I think the o-line isn’t as good as Fisher thought it was going to be. PFF ranks them among the worst in the league. Fisher just overestimated how good his o-line is.

October 30, 2016 at 3:34 pm #56377
InvaderRam
Moderator
nittany ram wrote:

Well, true the Rams had a great o-line back then and Dickerson was Dickerson but I don’t think you need an o-line full of all-pros to run effectively against those fronts when you have a great back. Gurley is a generational talent. He has HOF level skills. He just needs a crease and he’s gone. But the Rams o-line has been so overmatched that Gurley can’t get anything going. He’s constantly being hit in the backfield or at the LOS. And the way defenses are playing the Rams certainly can’t be a surprise to Fisher. He knew coming into the season that the Rams o-line was going to face a lot of 8 and 9 man fronts. He must have thought the o-line would be able to hold up against them. Fisher still figured they would be able to run effectively. I think the o-line isn’t as good as Fisher thought it was going to be. PFF ranks them among the worst in the league. Fisher just overestimated how good his o-line is.

oline is a question mark. i also gotta question scheme and coaching. i wonder how effective boudreau is at coaching this line. i know he’s got a good reputation, but he also has a reputation for sometimes wearing out his welcome. i also have to question if boras is scheming to gurley’s strengths.

and there’s probably things gurley needs to work on himself. i also wonder if maybe losing that weight wasn’t a good thing for him.

also. if robinson is indeed a better fit athe guard then the staff needs a better job of identifying that and making the appropriate change.
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by InvaderRam.
October 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm #56379

nittany ram
Moderator

InvaderRam wrote:

nittany ram wrote:

Well, true the Rams had a great o-line back then and Dickerson was Dickerson but I don’t think you need an o-line full of all-pros to run effectively against those fronts when you have a great back. Gurley is a generational talent. He has HOF level skills. He just needs a crease and he’s gone. But the Rams o-line has been so overmatched that Gurley can’t get anything going. He’s constantly being hit in the backfield or at the LOS. And the way defenses are playing the Rams certainly can’t be a surprise to Fisher. He knew coming into the season that the Rams o-line was going to face a lot of 8 and 9 man fronts. He must have thought the o-line would be able to hold up against them. Fisher still figured they would be able to run effectively. I think the o-line isn’t as good as Fisher thought it was going to be. PFF ranks them among the worst in the league. Fisher just overestimated how good his o-line is.

oline is a question mark. i also gotta question scheme and coaching. i wonder how effective boudreau is at coaching this line. i know he’s got a good reputation, but he also has a reputation for sometimes wearing out his welcome. i also have to question if boras is scheming to gurley’s strengths.

and there’s probably things gurley needs to work on himself. i also wonder if maybe losing that weight wasn’t a good thing for him.

Scheme could be an issue. Rich Gannon mentioned that when he watched film of the Rams the blocking schemes sometimes inexplicably left a defender unblocked even when the defense wasn’t stacking the box. Maybe some of that is due to missed assignments but who knows.

Yeah, Boudreau, Gurley – they all could play a role in this.

October 30, 2016 at 7:14 pm #56393

zn
Moderator

nittany ram wrote:

Rich Gannon mentioned that when he watched film of the Rams the blocking schemes sometimes inexplicably left a defender unblocked even when the defense wasn’t stacking the box.

Gannon’s comment got lots of play on the boards.

Personally, when I watch, I don’t see it. There is not this routine problem consisting of unblocked DEs taking out the runner before the play gets started. Rather, the problems have been multiple when they show up and are of different kinds.

I can’t see this situation where they sit down during the bye to review the offense and after a few game tapes Fisher goes “hey…aren’t we supposed to block defensive ends too?” with the coaches going “oh yeah! duh! 7 whole games of that and we never noticed.”

…
Author

Posts