Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › Goff: Dallas pre-season game to end of the pre-season
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August 13, 2017 at 4:15 pm #72442znModerator
Jared Goff has some weapons; it’s up to him to make it work –ESPN
Alden Gonzalez
LOS ANGELES — Jared Goff’s preseason debut lasted four passes. He went three-and-out, watched the Dallas Cowboys muff a punt, took over on the opposing 33-yard line and led a touchdown drive, then put on his headset, remaining on the sideline while his Los Angeles Rams navigated their way to a 13-10 win on Saturday night.
Standing nearby was Sammy Watkins, who could eventually make all the difference.
Watkins arrived at Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum about three hours before kickoff and about 18 hours after the Rams officially acquired him from the Bills in a trade that sent cornerback E.J. Gaines and a 2018 second-round pick to Buffalo. Goff found out about it when he finished a meeting on Friday.
“I look at my phone, and I have like 50 text messages,” Goff said. “‘Sammy Watkins,’ ‘Sammy Watkins,’ ‘Sammy Watkins.’ I’m like, ‘What? What happened?'”
Here’s what happened: The Rams gave Goff that final piece, and now it’s up to him to make it work.
This calendar year has represented a seismic shift for the Rams’ offense, a unit that finished last in the NFL in yards each of the past two years and outside of the top 20 in defense-adjusted value over average for the past decade. It began with the hiring of 31-year-old head coach Sean McVay, one of the brightest young minds in the game. He brought in an up-and-coming quarterbacks coach to be his offensive coordinator (Matt LaFleur) and an accomplished offensive coordinator to be his quarterbacks coach (Greg Olson).
Then the Rams signed Andrew Whitworth, one of the game’s best left tackles, and Robert Woods, a reliable possession receiver. They drafted an athletic tight end in Gerald Everett and a polished slot receiver in Cooper Kupp. And then, on the day before their first preseason game, they added Watkins, giving their offense the vertical threat that should open up space for everybody else.
“He obviously is a weapon,” Goff said after Saturday’s game. “His track record speaks for itself and what we’re trying to do. He’s a guy that can stretch the field. That’s something you take from him, obviously, right away. I also think he’s not only a really good guy, but works hard, just from what I’ve gathered so far. I’m excited to get him here, excited to get to work, and just briefly talking with him over the phone and on the sideline really quickly, just getting a feel for him, he seems like a really friendly guy who’s excited for a fresh start.”
Nobody really knows what to expect from Goff in his second season. He struggled so much as a rookie — 54.6 percent completion percentage, 5.3 yards per attempt, 22.2 Total QBR — but he also had so little to work with. The offensive line was bad, the receiving corps was underwhelming, the running game was nonexistent and the coaching staff was devoid of experience grooming NFL quarterbacks.
By the end of this year, though, we should finally have a much better feel for who Goff is — because he finally has a chance to succeed.
“You never know if you have what you need until the season, but right now, I think it’s definitely something to be excited about,” veteran offensive lineman Rodger Saffold said of what the Rams have added to their weakest department. “I’ve got a lot of confidence in our team, and it’s exciting to know the potential that we have with all these new pieces.”
Goff made some nice throws when the Rams got the ball back in enemy territory. He ran play-action, rolled left, then connected with Kupp on a crossing route for a 19-yard gain, putting the Rams in the red zone. He then hit Woods on a quick slant, which resulted in the fumble that Kupp fell on for a touchdown. Goff’s only incompletion came on the first play from scrimmage, a wobbly throw to Woods that sailed wide. He lamented that pass when speaking with McVay as soon as he returned to the sideline, which impressed the rookie head coach.
“Those are the kind of expectations that we have for him,” McVay said. “We expect him to have them for himself, and he does.”
Goff and Watkins can’t really begin to work together until Monday, at which point they will have less than four weeks to prepare for a season. But Goff isn’t worried. He believes their chemistry will forge quickly.
The question is whether he can eventually make it all work.
“You start stacking guys up, you start building a pretty good roster,” Goff said of his weapons, a list that also includes running back Todd Gurley and gadget receiver Tavon Austin. “I’m excited to see what [Watkins] can do, like the other guys.”
August 19, 2017 at 1:49 pm #72847znModerator2016 Guide: What Ourlads’ NFL Scouting Services said about JARED GOFF:
California, 6040 215 4.79. Junior entry. Three-year starter from Kentfield, CA. First-team All Pac-12. Plays in the quarterback friendly pitch and catch spread “Air Raid” offense. A drop back passer from the shotgun who has good arm strength and knows his way around the pocket. Throws the ball on time and on target with good accuracy over his career. The lanky underclassman helped revitalize the Golden Bear program that had fallen on hard times by starting 37 straight games after hitting the field as a true freshman. The two-time team captain will look the rush pressure in the eye and make the clutch pass. Reacts well to pressure. Knows where he wants to go with the ball and throws the receiver open with good accuracy and timing. Keeps his eyes down the field. No pause in the pocket. Good pocket presence and feel. Reads progressions. Keeps his feet hot and throws before the receiver breaks open. Does a good job of changing ball speed and trajectory over the top of defenders. Good ball placement. The receiver doesn’t have to wait on the ball and is hit in stride to give him a chance to run after the catch. A quick snap wrist release with velocity. Steps, throws, and completes passes through small windows in tight areas. At his best when the protection is solid and he can step toward his target and throw. Majors in carving up a defense with short ball control passes from 6-10 yards. Spreads the ball around to multiple receivers who rotate into the huddle in a variety of sub packages. Can make the key throws rolling to his left. Will need to work on his 3-5 and 7-step drops to the throwing point from under center. Goff never played under center and the defense looks a whole lot different when dropping back and making your reads rather than seeing the field from a shotgun formation. The angular passer set 26 Cal records including career marks for passing yards (12,220), passing yards per game (329.7), and touchdown passes (96). He also set a pair of Pac-12 single season records in his final year at Cal when he passed for 4719 yards and 43 scores. An eventual starter with the talent to contribute early in his career. As an added bonus, Goff as a pooch punter is a major weapon. 2015 stats: 341/529, 4719 yds, 64.5%, 43 TD, 13 INT, 161.3 QB rating. Ball velocity 58 mph. OSR:16/18. First round. (A-32 3/4, H-9, SS-4.47, VJ-27).
August 19, 2017 at 1:51 pm #72848znModerator. Will need to work on his 3-5 and 7-step drops to the throwing point from under center. Goff never played under center and the defense looks a whole lot different when dropping back and making your reads rather than seeing the field from a shotgun formation.
This is the thing. Has to learn.
…
August 19, 2017 at 2:01 pm #72849InvaderRamModerator. Will need to work on his 3-5 and 7-step drops to the throwing point from under center. Goff never played under center and the defense looks a whole lot different when dropping back and making your reads rather than seeing the field from a shotgun formation.
This is the thing. Has to learn.
…
well hopefully we see a lot of him dropping back tonight against oakland.
it’s the preseason so might as well work on the things he’s uncomfortable with.
and hopefully we’ll see a couple touchdown drives as well with him dropping back.
August 20, 2017 at 7:40 am #72892znModeratorHere’s Goff after 2 pre-season games:
19 of 24 (79%), 194 yards, 8.08 YPA, 1 TD (4.167%), 0 INT (0%), 1 sck (4.167%), qb rating of 114.236
That;s not a real accomplishment but it does bode well.
To give some perspective, if those were his 2016 season numbers, here’s how he would rank against other qbs:
Completion percentage: 1st
Yards per game: 1st
YPA: 4th
TD percentage: 16th
INT percentage: 1st
SCK percentage: 7th
QB rating: 2nd…
August 20, 2017 at 10:58 am #72910znModeratorHere’s Goff after 2 pre-season games:
19 of 24 (79%), 194 yards, 8.08 YPA, 1 TD (4.167%), 0 INT (0%), 1 sck (4.167%), qb rating of 114.236
That;s not a real accomplishment but it does bode well.
Goff Sharp in Second 2017 Preseason AppearanceMyles Simmons
OAKLAND — Quarterback Jared Goff had an up-and-down start to the week in practice. But any issues looked far behind him on Saturday night, as the second-year signal-caller finished a sharp 16-of-20 passing for 160 yards and a touchdown.
Originally slated to play just over a quarter — or 20-25 snaps — Goff ended up with about 37, according to head coach Sean McVay, and played essentially the entire first half. In that time, Goff completed passes to seven different receivers, leading the offense to three scoring drives — including a pair of eight-play possessions that ended in touchdowns.
“I thought Jared did a great job making good decisions, got a lot of people involved,” McVay said postgame. “And I thought just from having eight snaps in Week 1 and then coming in tonight and having 37 — we always talk about that daily improvement and he definitely got better this week.”
“I felt good,” Goff said. “I think we started the way we wanted to start. I think we were aggressive offensively.”
Part of what made Goff so effective was the way the offense was able to avoid negative plays. The Rams faced only three third downs of longer than five yards when Goff was in the game, which is why the club ended the first two quarters six-of-eight in third-down efficiency.
“It’s huge — huge for any offense, especially for us when we’re able to stay in front of the sticks, stay in 3rd-and-manageable,” Goff said. “It’s a game changer. You don’t like to be in 3rd-and-12. You don’t want to be in even 2nd-and-12, you want to stay ahead of the sticks. And I think we did a good job of that tonight. And ultimately, that’ll help us move the ball and score points.”
The time of possession numbers also illustrate how the Rams were able to get in a rhythm in the first half. L.A. doubled up Oakland, maintaining possession for 20:01 to the Raiders’ 9:59.
“I think we have to get a few plays to get us into a rhythm,” Goff said. “But once we do, once we move the ball, you get a couple first downs, you start getting that little feel, you start getting into a rhythm. And I think you can definitely feel it — certainly toward the end of that second drive, we felt like we had a pretty good tempo going. And we were able to move the ball on almost every down.”
Goff was sacked once — when 2016 Defensive Player of the Year Khalil Mack split a double team to make his way into the backfield — but was kept upright for the rest of the first half, as no other Raider had a quarterback hit. The quarterback showed solid pocket awareness, stepping up when he needed to. But the five men up front did well, too.
“I thought the O-line did a great job of creating that pocket, especially with guys like Bruce Irvin and Khalil Mack on the edge there,” Goff said. “Running them up behind me and giving me a pocket to sit in was really, really good tonight.”
And so though Goff had a rocky start to the week, McVay seemed pleased with how the quarterback kept working and was able to effectively command the offense on Saturday.
“My experience with Jared to this point has shown me that he’s nothing but a mentally tough guy that has great resilience and the ability to respond when things don’t work out,” McVay said. “And I think he’s able to take it for what it is and learn from it, and try to avoid those moving forward. But I think it’s also our job as coaches to try to put him in situations that are conducive for making good decisions consistently.”
“I thought he did an excellent job getting in and out of the huddle, managing it,” McVay added. “It was a good atmosphere tonight, where you’re having to use your silent cadence and do some different things. So there were some different elements that — very pleased with the way with he led the offense. And we were able to come away with some points and that’s always the goal.”
August 21, 2017 at 3:12 am #72942znModeratorThis was the kind of stuff being said above Goff a few days ago.
===
Published on Aug 15, 2017
Ryen Russillo and Will Cain share the moment they think the Los Angeles Rams realized they made a mistake in drafting Jared Goff No. 1 overall.
August 21, 2017 at 5:04 am #72948AgamemnonParticipantJared Goff impressed against the Raiders last nighthttps://t.co/Tqm1bYm7n7 pic.twitter.com/kzRtOpOP9L
— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) August 20, 2017
August 21, 2017 at 10:45 am #72954znModeratorSean McVay appreciates the little things from Jared Goff
Alden Gonzalez
THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. — Jared Goff found Cooper Kupp wide open for a 23-yard touchdown pass in his first drive on Saturday. He fired a dart off his back foot to Tyler Higbee as he came across the field at one point. On another, he lofted a perfectly placed deep ball to Sammy Watkins that was broken up near the end zone. Goff finished an eventual 24-21 road win against the Oakland Raiders 16-of-20 for 160 yards and a touchdown, in what might have been the most encouraging performance of his short NFL career.
Rams coach Sean McVay was most impressed by the little things.
One came in the third possession, on first-and-10 from the Raiders’ 31-yard line. McVay called play-action, but Khalil Mack got around the edge and was in Goff’s face as soon as he turned around from the fake handoff. Goff immediately threw it away to preserve field position.
“That’s a great play that maybe nobody notices because it was the only play,” McVay said. “That’s being a good decision-maker.”
Another came on third down and resulted in Watkins’ first catch with the Rams. It was only a five-yard pass, on a crossing route that allowed Watkins to find the seam. But McVay liked the way Goff stepped up in the pocket to deliver the throw with the rush coming.
“He shortened up his fourth and fifth steps, stepped up, slid, kept two hands on the ball and then throws a nice, accurate throw,” McVay said. “It’s only going to go down in the books as a [five]-yard completion on the shallow cross, but that’s good quarterback play right there. That’s being a good decision-maker; that’s playing in the rhythm and timing of the offense that we want.”
August 21, 2017 at 7:17 pm #72975InvaderRamModeratorhmm…
i see a lot of angst on both sides of the argument as to whether or not goff can be successful. not on this board but on other boards. it’s making a proper analysis of goff somewhat hard.
truth is we don’t know. no one really knows. we’ll just have to wait and see unfortunately. the one thing i am becoming convinced of is that goff could not be in better hands. i think the front office hit a home run with mcvay. he’s able to make a connection with his players. we read about it with cooley and reed and cousins as well. call it the qb whisperer or whatever but i think the rams could not have picked anyone better to get the most out of their young qb.
August 21, 2017 at 9:05 pm #72980AgamemnonParticipant#Rams Report: Recapping the win against the Raiders. pic.twitter.com/baDr6Mi4Md
— Los Angeles Rams (@RamsNFL) August 22, 2017
August 22, 2017 at 4:36 am #72991AgamemnonParticipantAugust 22, 2017 at 3:40 pm #73025znModeratorWhat a difference a year makes pic.twitter.com/31V4QKHeu9
— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) August 22, 2017
August 22, 2017 at 8:35 pm #73050InvaderRamModeratorwell it ain’t just the stats. goff this year is doing it against first team defenses. i don’t think that was the case last year. i could be wrong, but it was against much lesser competition.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by InvaderRam.
August 23, 2017 at 9:05 am #73078znModeratori don’t think that was the case last year. i could be wrong, but it was against much lesser competition.
Without checking I think you;re right.
.
August 23, 2017 at 5:47 pm #73124AgamemnonParticipantSo @MoveTheSticks of @nflnetwork can predict the future…😳🔮 pic.twitter.com/fKuqsKJb5p
— Los Angeles Rams (@RamsNFL) August 21, 2017
August 23, 2017 at 11:27 pm #73139znModeratorfrom 2017 NFL QB Tier Rankings
Mike Sando
Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady were again the only unanimous Tier 1 selections, but they had fresh company in the top grouping. Colin Kaepernick, though unsigned, came in ahead of eight potential starters. There was also some drama, as the 49th and 50th ballots collected determined which tiers Matt Ryan and Dak Prescott fell into.
The higher the tier, the less help the quarterback needs to be effective, especially when circumstances inevitably call for him to flourish in pure passing situations — those highly pressurized times when handing off or running with the ball do not cut it, and the quarterback must win from the pocket for his team to have a chance.
The breakdown of our 50 voters this year: Nine general managers, six pro personnel directors, five other executives, five head coaches, seven offensive coordinators, six defensive coordinators, five defensive assistants, three analytics directors, two quarterbacks coaches and two national scouts.
Rookie quarterbacks have been excluded from this file, due to a lack of information for our panel to judge.
…
32. Jared Goff – Avg. 2017 Rating (4.06)
Goff went 0-7 as a rookie starter last season under circumstances one offensive coordinator likened to a “perfect storm” of badness, from a weak supporting cast to organizational turmoil to a flawed scheme to appearing on “Hard Knocks” in a new city that happened to be one of the world’s entertainment capitals. One personnel director did say he saw Goff make a couple impressive throws per game, a reminder that there was physical talent with which to work.
“We did a lot of work on him when he and [Carson] Wentz came out, and I thought he had a chance,” a different offensive coordinator said. “I just knew that it was going to take a while. It was a little bit unfair throwing him in there like they did, especially when everything was in turmoil with that organization last year. I think he has a chance, yeah. He maybe can get to a 2. Maybe he can move toward a 3 this year with the idea of becoming a 2 one day.
“The biggest question in voters’ minds seemed to center around what one voter called a meek personality. Voters didn’t like the look in Goff’s eyes or the demeanor he projected as a rookie. They thought guys like Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes and especially Wentz had the grit needed to weather tough times.
“Man, he did not look the part when he played last year,” a former GM said of Goff. “I don’t know if it is coming from the spread [in college] and all that, but the anticipation, the instincts, they just weren’t there. Maybe the situation was just really bad, and with this new coach, it will get better.
August 24, 2017 at 9:02 am #73150znModeratorRams QB coach likes Goff’s growth, but ‘he’s far from a finished product’
Alden Gonzalez
THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. — There was never really one specific thing that Jared Goff needed to improve on as he entered 2017. He was — and still is — only 22 years old, a second-year quarterback in his first year under a new system, coming off a rookie season that was substandard by every measure. Greg Olson, the Los Angeles Rams’ new quarterbacks coach, couldn’t specify.
“We felt, as a staff, when we put all our eyes on him, that there were a number of things that he could get better at,” Olson said. “From footwork to progressions to timing in the passing game, there were a lot of things there that we felt like he needed to work on.”
The list remains daunting, even in the midst of his most encouraging performance to date.
Goff went 16-of-20 for 160 yards while playing almost the entire first half against the Oakland Raiders on Saturday night. He led the Rams to two touchdowns and a field goal in four drives, the first of which ended with a 23-yard touchdown pass to a wide-open Cooper Kupp. It was the type of stretch that made one believe that the former No. 1 overall pick may actually thrive one day; that this offense, rebuilt over the last five months, may finally be good again.
Goff acknowledged the confidence boost a night like that can trigger, “But it wasn’t like it was shocking,” he added. “It’s something that we expected to do.”
Olson’s excitement was tempered.
“Believe me,” Olson said of Goff, “he’s far from a finished product. He would tell you that. And we know that; we understand that. But we’re happy with the growth so far and the way he’s approached the process here of getting better. There’s a lot of positive things here that have come out, and he’s just gotta continue that constant, daily improvement.”
Olson was the Rams’ offensive coordinator from 2006 to 2007, when the team operated out of St. Louis. He worked with an in-his-prime Marc Bulger then, one of numerous quarterbacks who have been under his tutelage. Prior to rejoining the Rams, Olson spent 15 years as either a quarterbacks coach or an offensive coordinator — sometimes both — with seven different organizations. He instructed veterans like Jeff Garcia, Kordell Stewart and Brian Griese, young players like Rex Grossman, Blaine Gabbert and Blake Bortles.
In Goff, Olson sees someone who “wants to get better” and “wants to realize his potential.” He sees someone who has “tried to wipe the slate clean from his rookie season,” but also “took it as a learning experience.” He sees someone with a “good attitude” and a “strong work ethic.” And he sees someone who has had to learn two different systems in his first two NFL seasons, all while getting acclimated to the speed of professional football.
“That’s not an easy task,” Olson said. “But he’s never complained or placed blame on anybody or any of his circumstances. I really appreciate that about him.”
Goff threw only four incomplete passes in his second preseason game, but Olson felt he could’ve easily gone 19-of-20. Olson was impressed by the way Goff kept his eyes down the field and didn’t feel the rush. And he loved how calm he was on that first touchdown pass, when he rolled to his right and got rid of the football just before former Defensive Player of the Year Khalil Mack could get to him.
In the days leading up to that, though, Goff struggled, throwing six interceptions over a three-day stretch during practice. Some of that was a byproduct of testing his limits, because, as Olson said, “You have to find out about what throws you can and can’t make.”
The next threshold for Goff — the toughest threshold for Goff — is to make performances like Saturday his norm.
“Consistency over time is what it’s all about,” Olson said. “As you’re getting better, those lows need to become lower. There might be some little dips along the way, but it’s just gotta be constant, never-ending improvement. We understand that he’s a young player, and there’s going to be mistakes along the way. But they can’t affect the growth process.”
Goff wasn’t named the starting quarterback until Week 11 last season. He ultimately lost all seven of his starts and finished with a 22.2 Total QBR, the NFL’s lowest. The offensive line was a disaster, the receiving corps was inferior, the running game was non-existent, and the coaching staff was underqualified. But Goff himself wasn’t good. Outside of one impressive half in New Orleans, he struggled thoroughly. And when 50 league insiders were recently asked to rank quarterbacks, Goff placed 32nd out of 36, with one former general manager saying, “Man, he did not look the part when he played last year.”
Olson sees urgency out of Goff this year. He can also see why it might not have been there last summer, because Case Keenum was there and the Rams, under Jeff Fisher, basically let Goff know he wasn’t coming in as their starting quarterback. Sean McVay took the opposite approach in one of his first meetings with Goff. He told him that it was his job. That he would take all the first-team snaps, that he needed to establish himself as a leader, that he was expected to learn the offense quickly, and shoulder all that is required of an NFL quarterback.
Goff has accepted the challenge, and if Saturday was any indication, he has shown remarkable growth.
“But it’s just a start,” Olson said, “and we’re a long ways away from getting into the season. We’ll know more when this season ends; when he finishes his second year.”
August 24, 2017 at 3:49 pm #73169znModeratorPeter King breaks down one play that should have Rams fans breathing a little easier about former No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff
August 25, 2017 at 10:28 am #73220znModeratorGoff, Wentz, Dak: What each worked on to thrive in Year 2
Dan GrazianoILADELPHIA — They don’t throw you a parade for having a strong rookie season as an NFL quarterback; they give you more work.
Carson Wentz returned from an offseason in California with a trimmed down delivery and a variety of other mechanical tweaks, and his Philadelphia Eagles coaches knew what they needed to do. Last season was fun and established Wentz as the quarterback around whom the Eagles believe they can build their team. But this season is about the next steps in that construction project.
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In 13 days, Dan Graziano watched 14 NFL practices in eight states, recorded 67 interviews, checked into and out of 10 hotels and racked up 2,128 miles on his rental car.And that means drudgery. It means pulling one play out of the playbook and running it against five, six, seven different coverages, then pulling another play out of the playbook and doing the same thing. Good play, kid, but that was against Cover 1. Let’s see it against Cover 2. Cover 4. Zero Blitz. 1 Blitz. Over and over and over and over. OK, next play. Same thing.
“By no means have we got it figured out yet,” Eagles coach Doug Pederson said after a training camp practice earlier this month. “Last year, it was about just kind of getting his feet wet, understanding our offense, the terminology, kind of getting used to each other. And now, all that’s kind of behind us and it’s about, ‘Let’s peel the onion back one more time.’ Let’s talk about situations. Let’s talk about third-and-1s and third-and-7s and -9s and first and second down, red zone situations. Let’s dive into that now and hone in and see those incremental increases that you see from young quarterbacks, and just keep kind of drilling down in those areas. That’s the biggest thing going into Year 2.”
It’s Year 2 for Wentz in Philly, and for Dak Prescott in Dallas and Jared Goff in Los Angeles. Three second-year starting quarterbacks with three very different stories so far. The common thread is that each of their stories is just beginning. And whether their 2016 season was as inconclusive as Goff’s or as brilliantly successful as Prescott’s, these are all still young players with a lot of work to do before we know how their careers will turn out.
“We’re still learning and we’re still growing and he’s still developing and still working on a lot of things,” Pederson said of Wentz. “But I think that’s now where it takes time. I grew up in the true West Coast system with [Mike] Holmgren and Coach [Andy] Reid, and it’s a three-, four-year process. Brett Favre was constantly learning, every year, even the older he got. I have a phrase: Don’t get bored with completions. It makes us better. So that’s what we’re working on. That’s what we’re trying to get to — to where it all becomes second nature for all of us, really.”
So let’s start there, in Philadelphia, and take a deeper look at three very different second-year quarterback situations and what each tried to do this offseason to improve:
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia Eagles
Pick in 2016 draft: No. 2
A year ago at this time, Wentz was the No. 3 quarterback on the Eagles’ depth chart behind Sam Bradford and Chase Daniel. The team had moved up to No. 2 overall in the draft to select him, but it wanted to be patient while it had better options, and Bradford the veteran was supposed to be the starter. That all changed when Minnesota’s Teddy Bridgewater tore up his knee and a Vikings team with Super Bowl aspirations offered a first-round pick for Bradford. The Eagles tore up their quarterback plan, looked at the progress Wentz had made through the summer, and decided to roll with the rookie.
“Yeah, it was definitely tough in OTAs and in training camp,” Wentz recalled. “I was walking a fine line a lot, you know, when I was with the [third team] — kind of had to know when to make my comments and different things. So that was definitely hard, I’m not going to lie. But then, once I was the starter, there was no looking back. And I think, in that time, even though maybe I wasn’t asserting myself as a leader vocally as much, you can still go out and work your tail off, show everybody how you care about people and just how you approach the game. I think that builds a lot of respect among your teammates.”
That valuable behind-the-scenes groundwork laid, Wentz started the on-field portion of his career ablaze. He completed 64.7 percent of his passes with five touchdowns and no interceptions while the Eagles outscored opponents 92-27 en route to a 3-0 start. Wentz was the talk of the league before Prescott was.
It got messier from there, of course. There were predictably miserable days against teams like the Giants and Seahawks interspersed with more encouraging moments such as a victory over the Falcons. Wentz ended up 25th in passer rating, 26th in Total QBR and 29th in yards per attempt with 16 touchdown passes against 14 interceptions. Work to do, for sure, and he went out to California to drill specifics.
“A lot of it was footwork — proper footwork, proper weight distribution, which leads to better efficiency with just throwing motion and everything,” Wentz said. “So I worked on those things — no mass overhauls by any means, but I definitely feel more efficient with my throwing.”
Dak Prescott, Dallas Cowboys
Pick in 2016 draft: No. 135
If you’re going to build on your promise, the first step is realizing that you have to. The Eagles’ 2016 record and the downturn his own performance took after the hot September start were enough to prove to Wentz and his coaches that not everything got figured out in one rookie season. Out in Frisco, Texas, however, the story is a little bit different.
You needed eclipse glasses to watch Prescott and the Dallas Cowboys in 2016. With the help of fellow stud rookie Ezekiel Elliott and a star-studded offensive line in front of him, Prescott delivered a rookie season for the ages. He was third in the NFL in Total QBR behind Matt Ryan and Tom Brady, fourth in yards per attempt, fourth in completion percentage, and threw 23 touchdown passes against only four interceptions. The Cowboys went 13-3 before getting caught under the Aaron Rodgers steamroller in the playoffs, and Prescott was named NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year.
So what do you do to sow improvement in a player who had so much success? You focus on the failures.
“You look at how people might study you,” Cowboys offensive coordinator Scott Linehan said in a phone interview Tuesday. “We sit him down and we show him, ‘This is something someone might try on you, because someone else had success with it.’ The Giants, for example. They’re going to look at some of the stuff they did and feel good about it, especially the second game we played them.”
Which is why Linehan has made Prescott study that second Giants game — a 10-7 loss in New Jersey on Dec. 11 that was easily Prescott’s worst game of the season. He was 17-of-37 passing for 165 yards with one touchdown and two interceptions. (Remember, he threw only two other interceptions in the entire regular season.) Prescott’s QBR for that game was 14.8. His next lowest single-game QBR was 50.6, and that came in a meaningless season finale in which he played only two series.
So Prescott has had to watch that second Giants game over and over, and while doing so he has been asked to imagine the way opposing defensive coordinators are watching it, looking for clues about how to attack him. When training camp opened last year, Prescott was a fourth-round pick sitting behind Tony Romo and Kellen Moore on the Cowboys’ depth chart. It wasn’t until Aug. 25 of last year that Romo hurt his back in a preseason game against the Seahawks and Prescott took over.
He’s not sneaking up on anyone this time.
“We feel like everything was kind of day-to-day last year, the way it all unfolded,” Linehan said. “So it’s a little bit of, ‘OK, take a breath, step back and look at what you were doing this time last year.’ Last year, Dak was the No. 3 quarterback until the third preseason game. Now, you’ve got to carry your team as a starter.”
So it goes beyond just that Giants game. Anyone who had any kind of success against Prescott in any situation gets studied. Anyone who stopped him on a given drive with something he might see again. He played Washington twice, and now a few of that team’s coaches (including last season’s defensive coordinator) are with the Rams. The Cowboys play the Rams on Oct. 1. In advance of that game, they’ll watch tape to see what Washington tried to do against Prescott last season. Mix that level of study with the work he was already doing to make sure Year 1 wasn’t a fluke.
“Mechanics, he’s certainly worked on those. That’s one of the best things he’s done,” Linehan said. “Footwork, timing, all of those things — he’s head-and-shoulders above where he was when he got into the league.”
For Prescott, it’s about knowing how they’re going to come after you.
Jared Goff, Los Angeles Rams
Pick in 2016 draft: No. 1
Prescott was the 135th pick in the 2016 draft. Goff was the first. Their rookie seasons couldn’t have been much more different. Prescott started from Week 1, never looked back and won awards. Goff had to wait until Week 11 to wrest the Rams’ starting quarterback job from Case Keenum. He played in seven games, lost them all, and posted a 22.2 Total QBR that ranked just behind that of Arizona backup Drew Stanton and just ahead of Cleveland wide receiver Terrelle Pryor.
Goff’s best game from a QBR standpoint was his first, and his next best was his second game. Of his five touchdown passes for the season, three came in one game against a Saints defense that allowed more points than any other team in the league outside of San Francisco. Yes, one of the other two touchdown passes came against San Francisco.
Four games into Goff’s tenure as starter, the Rams fired coach Jeff Fisher. After the season ended, they also let go of offensive coordinator Rob Boras, passing game coordinator Mike Groh and quarterbacks coach Chris Weinke.
To replace Fisher, the Rams hired 31-year-old former Washington offensive coordinator Sean McVay, who helped make Kirk Cousins a star in his last stop but has no connection to Goff. McVay and his staff had nothing to do with drafting Goff. Washington wasn’t evaluating quarterbacks before the 2016 draft, and neither were the Atlanta Falcons, for whom new Rams offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur was working at the time.
So yeah, if you want to say Goff is starting from scratch in Year 2, no one’s going to tell you you’re nuts.
“I don’t ever want to say starting from scratch, because he obviously learned a lot from that last staff,” LaFleur said. “But yeah, anytime a quarterback has to learn a new system, new terminology, how you’re asked to execute fundamentals, there is a learning curve there.”
The key with Goff, the Rams believe, is the strength of the group around him. Adding veteran offensive linemen Andrew Whitworth and John Sullivan, drafting wide receiver Cooper Kupp, signing free-agent wideout Robert Woods and, most recently, trading for wideout Sammy Watkins should help put Goff in a position to maximize what he can do well at this point in his career and minimize the areas where he struggles. The Rams are likely to lean heavily on a run game that features 2015 first-round pick Todd Gurley, but that assumes he and the linemen have picked up the zone blocking scheme McVay & Co. brought with them and installed this summer.
“I don’t want to say you treat him like a rookie, but I think anytime you’re in the first year of a system, especially with a younger player, you almost have to,” LaFleur said. “It sounds terrible, but that’s what it is — just knowing you’re in the developmental phase of a young player’s career.”
In the meantime, though, the Rams will be trying to win games. Goff has abilities they believe can help them do that. LaFleur called him a “natural thrower with pretty good accuracy,” and the team has been happy with some of the decision-making they’ve seen from Goff so far in this year’s preseason game action, including a 16-for-20 passing performance against Oakland in Week 2. But fundamentally, Goff is entering Year 2 without the benefit of the same kind of Year 1 those other two guys had. And as a result, expectations have to be more modest.
“I think he’s definitely improving,” LaFleur said. “He’s got a much better understanding of what we’re trying to accomplish and what the expectations are for him. He’s just got a much better understanding of football.”
That’s a good place to start. And when you look at these three second-year quarterbacks, the one who was drafted the earliest is the one who’s still the least removed from the starting line.
August 26, 2017 at 12:43 am #73273znModerator“But Can He Make Music?” Thoughts on NFL Rookie Quarterbacks
MATT WALDMAN
“Have your views about Jared Goff and Dak Prescott changed now that we’ve seen them during the preseason?” Matt answers this question and the deeper one underlying it.
I was wrong to think that Jared Goff was the most pro ready of the 2016 rookie quarterback class. I underestimated the difficulty of the transition from Cal’s Air Raid offense to the Rams’ West Coast system. But I don’t think this is a big deal if you’re focused on the true North of the compass for what matters most for a young quarterback:
Long-term development.
Most people aren’t oriented this way. What we see written and discussed in major media reinforces the fallacy that rookie quarterbacks need to perform well immediately. When a lesser-regarded prospect outperforms a player of higher regard, there’s often a one-to-one comparison of the two and there shouldn’t be.
Quarterbacks are a lot like musicians and it’s problematic to judge two rookie quarterbacks during the rehearsal process. They’re learning how to interact with their band and the performance environment and each band and environment has enough differences that most boom-bust conclusions are short-sighted.
Listen to these two performances and ask yourself which version of “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” is better.
or
Many of you will pick the version that appeals to your ears, your current emotional state, or the instrumentation that you like the best. All of these are valid reasons for liking one over the other but none of them are valid reasons for explaining which one is of better quality.
The quartet is filled with top-notch professionals. I’ve taken classes or private lessons with two of the four players and all of them have played with performers you’ve probably heard of (Frank Sinatra, Miami Sound Machine, Buddy Rich, etc.).
I know for a fact that every member of this quartet is capable of performing Al McClean’s version in a musically compelling way.
Based on what I’ve heard from McClean, I have little doubt he could learn any of the parts for the Miami Saxophone Quartet and fill in without a hitch if they needed a substitute for a gig.
Some of you will say that the quartet was better. There were more examples of rhythmically difficult passages, the four performers were in tune and in time, and there were significant variations to the composition. A few of you might even note that the saxophonist in church with the piano was a little sharp with his intonation.
A really astute observer may note that the saxophonist in the church was intentionally a little sharp so he could create an edge to the overall tone of the piece. Another great point about this performance is that a slow, moody piece with fewer time boundaries requires a more difficult interplay.
It should become apparent to you that asking which version is better is highly subjective. I have a more meaningful question that also leads us back to quarterbacking: Which version is an easier setting for a budding professional to perform well?
When it comes to instrumentation, I can tell you from experience that most saxophonists can switch between the alto and tenor reasonably well but it requires more work to achieve a similar facility with the soprano or baritone. Most saxophonists will tell you that the soprano is the most temperamental of the four.
The quartet possesses strength in numbers, defined tempos, and a sheet music arrangement. Each individual is less exposed if he makes a mistake. The strength in numbers also makes it easier for an individual to make mistakes and recover without derailing the performance.
The more isolated the instrument in a setting, the more demanding the situation when it comes to a player’s sound, his intonation, and his feel for time and story-telling. The solo act with piano accompaniment, no sheet music, and no defined tempo requires a higher level of interplay and leadership. There’s also much greater exposure to the audience when there is a minor mistake.
The differences in environment and setting when comparing Dak Prescott and Jared Goff are a lot like the quartet and the solo act in the church. Prescott is like the tenor player working with a quartet. When featured, he sounds great but the inherent demands on his part aren’t as risky as the other parts.
For most of his preseason snaps, Prescott has been asked to make 1-2 reads on the same side of the field and if neither come open, run the ball. A significant number of Prescott’s snaps featured 3-5 receivers but only 2 left the line of scrimmage.
The most common short and intermediate routes Prescott targeted in these games were screens and underneath zone routes. The big-play routes were one-on-one fades that rely heavily on the athletic prowess of a teammate.
None of this is meant to downplay Prescott’s intelligence or his potential to become a good NFL starter. The fact that Prescott did an excellent job performing the Cowboys’ game plan is encouraging. Teams can win games with strong surrounding personnel and a quarterback who does what Prescott has shown but it’s less reliant on Prescott leading the offense with the same freedom and range of a veteran quarterback.
What Prescott hasn’t shown is whether he can make plays when his decision-making process has more demands of 2-4 reads, full-field reads, 4-5 receivers in routes, and displaying good timing and execution to move from one option to the next. These components of quarterback play are like that ballad with the soprano and the piano–the demands are higher and the potential exposure is more damaging.
Jared Goff is learning an entirely new system. Will Hewlett–a quarterback coach and consultant to high school, college and professional passers–says the transition from the Air Raid system at Cal to a West Coast system with the Rams is like learning Chinese.
If you’ve ever taken language lessons as an adult, it becomes apparent almost immediately that the process sublimate the winning traits of your personality. Learning Chinese? Forget having a quick wit or great sense of humor for months.
Are you known for your sensitivity? You’ll be so busy focusing on what people are saying that you only catch a glimpse of how they’re saying it. Facial expressions and tone of voice are like third and fourth reads for a quarterback at your opponent’s 45 on 3rd and 12 with 1:34 left on the clock, down by 3, and dealing with the potential for A-gap pressure and missing that DE dropping into the flat.
You’re still sensitive, witty, and intelligent. You still have those skills and others but they won’t show up nearly as often when first learning that new language. Goff’s stats show that he’s not handling pressure well and he’s making critical errors but to conclude that he’s lost these skills or analysts were wrong for ever seeing them, glosses over the realities of learning a complex system.
And the West Coast system is the most difficult offense to learn. It’s the most common one in the league because coaches have witnessed how unstoppable it can be when at its best. However, there are few quarterbacks who can run it at that level.
It’s like staring in one band as a tenor saxophonist and then being asked to perform a ballad like the one shown above on the soprano. There are multiple, subtle demands to evoking deep emotions from the audience and the main performer’s flaws are at much greater risk of exposure to the crowd.
Jared Goff’s learning curve is far different but he’s judged along the same standard. RamsWire writer Jeff Smith has done a good job of telling Rams fans to freak out that Goff is the No.3 quarterback after the preseason. Smith is correct that the Rams invested a lot of capital in Goff, analysts (like me) thought Goff was the most pro-ready quarterback in the class, and Goff’s statistics haven’t been good.
But the stats only show that Goff’s results are bad and they way they are presented, there’s a presumption that Goff should display the same qualities that made him productive at Cal. This is a bad presumption.
The Cowboys have asked Prescott to play his best ax as a part of a strong group of players and perform songs with strict time boundaries, comfortable tempos, and tightly rehearsed forms. The Rams want Goff to learn a similar but slightly different and temperamental instrument and perform songs that have a lot more variables.
Goff is doing a lot more thinking than performing and it’s why he’s the No.3 option. If the Rams ownership has a clue, Goff’s temporary tenure as the final backup on the depth chart is more annoying when answering media questions than it is in the locker room.
Jeff Fisher gets his share of media criticism as an overrated coach but he believed in bringing quarterbacks along slowly. He wanted Vince Young to rely more on his brains than his body but Young didn’t become a student of the game. After a great rookie year with the team working around Young’s talents, opposing defenses generated more demands for Young to succeed and he didn’t study enough to meet them.
Steve McNair was a student of the game and he evolved into one of the more underrated pocket passers of his time. McNair didn’t start immediately and there were concerns early on that McNair wasn’t worth the No.3 overall pick in the draft. Fisher and the Titans were patient and it paid off.
Brett Hundley was the No.3 quarterback last year. He’s now considered a promising backup with starter potential. The notable difference in perception between Hundley and Goff is that Goff was the No.1 overall pick and Hundley dropped to the middle rounds in 2015.
Those in the know understand that Hundley was considered an early round talent entering his junior year. If he stayed at UCLA last year, he might have earned a high-round selection.
The public pressure on Goff and the Rams has greater intensity due to the number of picks the team traded to invest in the rookie. But if the Rams ownership and executive team is thinking clearly, they’ll look at Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady’s career arcs.
Neither players was remotely a No.1 overall pick in the draft. Brady began his career as the No.3. Most teams would have spent more on these two players in their prime than what the Rams spent on Goff.
So when readers ask me, “What do you think about Jared Goff and Dak Prescott now?” it’s all about my frame of perspective. For fantasy football, Goff is a player that I’ll monitor. He’s a potential waiver-wire player in re-draft leagues later in the year.
Prescott is at least a temporary starter with actual value in daily fantasy formats. He’s also capable of strong opening month in season-long formats.
In dynasty leagues, I’m still drafting Goff over Prescott and there’s no hesitation. If anything, I’m getting better value on Goff. The bump in Prescott’s value makes him a little less attractive although the opportunity to solidify his future as a starter is a lot more compelling in the immediate present.
Beyond the immediate fantasy implications of late summer and early fall, I stand by the process that led me to the results that I publish every April.
If the Rams give Goff the time the Packers and Patriots gave to their starters–or even Washington inadvertently gave to Kirk Cousins while rushing the process with Robert Griffin III–Goff has the talent to thrive. His pocket presence, accuracy, and feel for the game hasn’t left. The new system is forcing him to think rather than play.
If the Cowboys continue to surround Prescott with a strong band and can spotlight the rookie’s confidence and athletic ability, he’ll succeed this year. If they gradually feed him more options and responsibilities so he can grow into a well-rounded leader of an offense, he develop into a complete player.
Quarterbacking is like making music. Thanks to our digital age, most young quarterbacks have more access to technical coaching, nutrition and training programs, and football theory than their predecessors.
Look at their technique, athletic ability, and understanding of specific offensive ideas in a vacuum and they appear more pro-ready than in the past. But just like musicians who developed the optimal physical techniques to produce a good sound, memorized hot licks, and gained extensive knowledge of harmony, none of it matters if they can’t make it all sound musical.
August 28, 2017 at 10:15 pm #73425znModeratorThe 32 starting QBs for 2017 listed by age … By Thanksgiving, 15 of the 32 guys on this list will be 30 or older. pic.twitter.com/aKxUcwFaqJ
— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) August 28, 2017
August 30, 2017 at 1:37 pm #73490AgamemnonParticipantUnless the absolute bottom falls out on Goff (injuries/execution), he's going to be comeback player of the year. Call me crazy. Don't care.
— Louis Riddick (@LRiddickESPN) August 24, 2017
Video Link: => http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/20488629
August 30, 2017 at 4:23 pm #73491nittany ramModeratorThere are a lot of QBs playing at a high level well into their late 30’s. Moreso now than ever. I wonder if this is an aberration or trend. My bet is it’s a trend. If Goff is legit, then the Rams could have their QB for the next 14 – 18 years.
August 30, 2017 at 8:07 pm #73506InvaderRamModeratorThere are a lot of QBs playing at a high level well into their late 30’s. Moreso now than ever. I wonder if this is an aberration or trend. My bet is it’s a trend. If Goff is legit, then the Rams could have their QB for the next 14 – 18 years.
i think it’s a trend. qbs are protected now more than ever.
August 31, 2017 at 10:29 pm #73548znModerator-X- wrote:
=
.@SI_PeterKing uses #NFLGamePass to put Jared Goff under a microscope pic.twitter.com/Yxs7iCmYa3
— Sports Illustrated (@SInow) August 24, 2017
That’s an elite throw in the face of pressure.
I know this is *only* one example, but it’s a pretty good example of him progressing through his reads. He goes X, Z, Y, TE (go), and back to Y before he throws. That’s 4 progressions.
He’s of course going to make some mistakes along the way, but that shouldn’t be the focus. It should be on how he’s maturing as a quarterback over the course of a season. Not game by game. And certainly not the past.
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