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  • #55886
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    link:http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/wife-of-job-bible

    Most Scientific Findings Are Wrong or Useless
    “Science isn’t self-correcting, it’s self-destructing.”

    Ronald Bailey | August 26, 2016

    “Science, the pride of modernity, our one source of objective knowledge, is in deep trouble.” So begins “Saving Science,” an incisive and deeply disturbing essay by Daniel Sarewitz at The New Atlantis. As evidence, Sarewitz, a professor at Arizona State University’s School for Future Innovation and Society, points to reams of mistaken or simply useless research findings that have been generated over the past decades.
    Sarewitz cites several examples of bad science that I reported in my February article “Broken Science.” These include a major biotech company’s finding in 2012 that only six out of 53 landmark published preclinical cancer studies could be replicated. Researchers at a leading pharmaceutical company reported that they could not replicate 43 of the 67 published preclinical studies that the company had been relying on to develop cancer and cardiovascular treatments and diagnostics. In 2015, only about a third of 100 psychological studies published in three leading psychology journals could be adequately replicated.

    A 2015 editorial in The Lancet observed that “much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue.” A 2015 British Academy of Medical Sciences report suggested that the false discovery rate in some areas of biomedicine could be as high as 69 percent. In an email exchange with me, the Stanford biostatistician John Ioannidis estimated that the non-replication rates in biomedical observational and preclinical studies could be as high as 90 percent.

    Sarewitz also notes that 1,000 peer-reviewed and published breast cancer research studies turned out to be using a skin cancer cell line instead. Furthermore, when amyotrophic lateral sclerosis researchers tested more than 100 potential drugs reported to slow disease progression in mouse models, none were found to be beneficial when tested on the same mouse strains. A 2016 article suggested that fMRI brain imaging studies suffered from a 70 percent false positive rate. Sarewitz also notes that decades of nutritional dogma about the alleged health dangers of salt, fats, and red meat appears to be wrong.

    And then there is the huge problem of epidemiology, which manufactures false positives by the hundreds of thousands. In the last decade of the 20th century, some 80,000 observational studies were published, but the numbers more than tripled to nearly 264,000 between 2001 and 2011. S. Stanley Young of the U.S. National Institute of Statistical Sciences has estimated that only 5 to 10 percent of those observational studies can be replicated. “Within a culture that pressures scientists to produce rather than discover, the outcome is a biased and impoverished science in which most published results are either unconfirmed genuine discoveries or unchallenged fallacies,” four British neuroscientists bleakly concluded in a 2014 editorial for the journal AIMS Neuroscience.

    Some alarmed researchers refer to this situation as the “reproducibility crisis,” but Sarewitz convincingly argues that they are not getting to the real source of the rot. The problem starts with the notion, propounded in the MIT technologist Vannevar Bush’s famous 1945 report Science: The Endless Frontier, that scientific progress “results from the free play of free intellects, working on subjects of their own choice, in the manner dictated by their curiosity for exploration of the unknown.” Sarewitz calls this a “beautiful lie.”

    Why it is a lie? Because it makes “it easy to believe that scientific imagination gives birth to technological progress, when in reality technology sets the agenda for science, guiding it in its most productive directions and providing continual tests of its validity, progress, and value.” He adds, “Technology keeps science honest.” Basically, research detached from trying to solve well-defined problems spins off self-validating, career-enhancing publications like those breast cancer studies that actually were using skin cancer cells. Yet no patients were cured of breast cancer. The “truth test” of technology is the most certain way to tell if the knowledge allegedly being generated by research is valid. “The scientific phenomena must be real or the technologies would not work,” Sarewitz explains.

    Sarewitz points out that the military-industrial complex—the very force from which Vannevar Bush was eager to escape—generated the targeted scientific results that led to many of the technologies that have made the modern world possible, including digital computers, jet aircraft, cell phones, the internet, lasers, satellites, GPS, digital imagery, and nuclear and solar power. He’s not suggesting that the Department of Defense should be in charge of scientific research. He’s arguing that research should be aimed more directly at solving specific problems, as opposed to a system where researchers torture some cells and lab mice and then publish a dubious paper. An example of the kind of targeted scientific work he favors is the National Breast Cancer Coalition’s Artemis project, whose goal is to develop an effective breast cancer vaccine by 2020.

    “Academic science, especially, has become an onanistic enterprise worthy of Swift or Kafka,” Sarewitz declares. He wants end-user constituencies—patient advocacy groups, environmental organizations, military planners—outside of academia to have a much bigger say in setting the goals for publicly funded research. “The questions you ask are likely to be very different if your end goal is to solve a concrete problem, rather than only to advance understanding,” he argues. “That’s why the symbiosis between science and technology is so powerful: the technology provides focus and discipline for the science.”

    And there’s a bigger problem. In his 1972 essay “Science and Trans-Science,” the physicist Alvin Weinberg noted that science is increasingly being asked to address such issues as the deleterious side effects of new technologies, or how to deal with social problems such as crime and poverty. These are questions that “though they are, epistemologically speaking, questions of fact and can be stated in the language of science, they are unanswerable by science; they transcend science.” Such trans-scientific questions inevitably involve values, assumptions, and ideology. Consequently, attempting to answer trans-scientific questions, Weinberg wrote, “inevitably weaves back and forth across the boundary between what is known and what is not known and knowable.”

    “The great thing about trans-science is that you can keep on doing research,” Sarewitz observes, “You can…create the sense that we’re gaining knowledge…without getting any closer to a final or useful answer.” Some contemporary trans-scientific questions: “Are biotech crops necessary to feed the world?” “Does exposure to synthetic chemicals deform penises?” “Do open markets benefit all countries?” “What will the costs of man-made global warming be in a century?” “What can be done about rising obesity rates?” “Does standardized testing improve educational outcomes?” All of these depend on debatable assumptions or are subject to confounders that make it impossible to be sure that the correlations uncovered are actually causal.

    Consider climate change. “The vaunted scientific consensus around climate change,” notes Sarewitz, “applies only to a narrow claim about the discernible human impact on global warming. The minute you get into questions about the rate and severity of future impacts, or the costs of and best pathways for addressing them, no semblance of consensus among experts remains.” Nevertheless, climate “models spew out endless streams of trans-scientific facts that allow for claims and counterclaims, all apparently sanctioned by science, about how urgent the problem is and what needs to be done.”

    Vast numbers of papers have been published attempting to address these trans-scientific questions, Sarewitz observes. They provide anyone engaged in these debates with overabundant supplies of “peer-reviewed and thus culturally validated truths that can be selected and assembled in whatever ways are necessary to support the position and policy solution of your choice.” It’s confirmation bias all the way down.

    The advent of big data also worries Sarewitz. Dredging massive new datasets generated by an already badly flawed research enterprise will produce huge numbers of meaningless correlations. Since the integrity of the output is dependent on the integrity of input, big data science risks generating a flood of instances of garbage in, garbage out, or GIGO. Sarewitz warns, “The scientific community and its supporters are now busily creating the infrastructure and the expectations that can make unreliability, knowledge chaos, and multiple conflicting truths the essence of science’s legacy.”

    Ultimately, science can be rescued if researchers can be directed more toward solving real world problems rather than pursuing the beautiful lie. Sarewitz argues that in the future, the most valuable scientific institutions will be those that are held accountable and give scientists incentives to solve urgent concrete problems. The goal of such science will be to produce new useful technologies, not new useless studies. In the meantime, Sarewitz has made a strong case that contemporary “science isn’t self-correcting, it’s self-destructing

    #55680
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher – October 20, 2016

    (Opening statement)

    “Good Thursday practice session. I was really pleased with the energy. Meetings started at a decent hour this morning and we got a lot done. They’re flying around. What’s interesting is as the week goes on, as coaches we have more opportunity to study the opponent and I’m becoming more and more impressed with our upcoming opponent, which is not necessarily a good thing for us. They’re playing really good on defense. Their secondary’s playing really well together. They’re flying around and not giving up a lot of points. We’re going to have to be on par, offensively. Then defensively, (Giants QB) Eli (Manning) is Eli, he can make it happen. We’ve got our work cut out. We’ve got some match up concerns going in – the obvious ones are our secondary and our young corners against (Giants WR) Odell (Beckham Jr.). You go back and look at everybody that’s played them, they’re playing close attention to where he is and they’re giving them help. So, we’re going to have to do the same. But great respect for their skilled players on offense. As we move further into the week, it just becomes more apparent that it’s going to be a great game. It’s going to be a great ball game.”

    (On adjusting to the eight hour time difference)

    “The guys are fine right now. We talked to them in advance and we told them today is the day you’re going to feel better. When you tell them you feel better, then they feel better. That’s kind of our approach. But they had a great day today. We need to finish up tomorrow with a good practice and then excited about going over to the stadium and doing the walk-thru on Saturday.”

    (On what he’s seen with Giants CB Janoris Jenkins on film)

    “I mentioned in the conference call yesterday, I’ve got great respect for some of the top corners in the league, but it would be hard-pressed to find someone playing better than he is right now. He’s playing within the scheme. He’s challenging receivers, not within the scheme. I’m talking about, if he’s left or right and he’s playing their zone stuff and their matchup stuff, he does a great job. They’re also, if need be, matching him up on the best guy and he’s winning. He’s got a lot of PBU’s, which is pass breakups and he’s tackling well, he’s running well. It looks like he’s in great shape.”

    (On DE Robert him injury status)

    “He was full practice today.”

    (On whether he expects him to play)

    “I expect and am hoping. But full practice today is encouraging.”

    (On what happens to the defense when he’s not available on game day)

    “The attention goes to (DT) Aaron (Donald). I guess that’s most obviously stated. It goes right to Aaron. They feel like they can win the one-on-ones outside. Now we’ve won outside without him – (DE) Will’s (Hayes) won outside, (DE) Eugene’s (Sims) won outside, and the other guys have won as well. But basically, when he is on the edge, the fire power on the edge is going to require help, so that takes one more person offensively out of the routes of distribution.”

    (On what he thinks is the best way to handle a player like Giants WR Odell Beckham Jr. – a player who displays so much passion that it may sometimes boil over)

    “I think they did a good job up there. He’s an emotional player, that’s why he’s so talented. Every play is important to him. He blocks, he’s into the offense and everything. He had his issues, if you watched a couple games, especially the Green Bay game, he settled down completely. He was helping opponents up off the ground, slapping them on the rear end, you know that kind of thing. I think he’s learned. He’s got a chance to go down as one of the all-time bests. He’s really, really special. We have respect for him but we’re going to have to cover him. We’re going to have to tackle him. That’s just what we do.”

    (On why he likes Odell Beckham Jr. can become one of the best wide receivers to play the game)

    “If he stays healthy over the next five or seven years, he takes a slant and goes 70 yards, just like he did right at the end of the game. There’s not a whole lot of guys right now playing the game, rather than (Falcons WR) Julio (Jones), and some guys that can do that. He can make all the catches and runs all the routes, and the run-after-catch stuff is pretty impressive.”

    (On if he believes Beckham is a different player from two seasons ago, from a mental standpoint and with specific regards to a scuffle involving him and Rams players last time the teams played)

    “That was his rookie year and I think he’s learned from it. We’re not anticipating anything this week. We’re just going to line up and play. But, something got out of hand there, with respect to both teams. We’re not dwelling on that, we’re not showing that. We’re just dwelling on what they’re doing offensively.”

    (On if he’s spoken to his defensive backs about controlling their temper against Beckham)

    “What you do is, and it’s a weekly discussion, is just don’t hurt our football team. Regardless of what happens out there, regardless of what is said, or regardless of the reaction out of an opponent, don’t put yourself in a position to hurt the football team. Now, again, I think Odell learned last week when a big touchdown play that shift the game, and he let loose of his emotions, took his helmet off, and now they’re kicking off from the 20-yard line. Those things are hard. I think the whole league needs to learn from that. Give yourself a chance to win. That could’ve cost them a victory last week. So, we don’t want to put ourselves in a position to where those kinds of things happen to us.”

    (On if he ever engaged emotional players while he was a defensive back)

    “I wasn’t very good. I was just trying to survive (laughs). There’s a lot of stuff that goes on out on the field, that you guys don’t know that’s said. Sometimes the verbal confrontations – they end up in physical confrontations, and you don’t want that to happen. We went out and just tried to win the game.”

    (On what stood out to him about the Giants on tape)

    “All three phases. Their special teams is just very well coached. I’ve got great respect for Mike Solari, their offensive line coach. He’s done a good job. They’re going to continue to improve in their run game, offensively. The passing game is up to Eli (Manning). Eli knows what is going on. He puts them in the right situations all the time. I guess most importantly, defensively, it’s a stacked defense. It’s a secondary that’s loaded. (S) Landon (Collins) is playing really, really well right now, in addition to Janoris (Jenkins). (CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie) Rodgers is playing well. They have depth, linebackers are running, defensive line is stout. They’ve got what you need to win in the NFC East.”

    (On if he foresees a big game out of RB Todd Gurley)

    “Yeah, it’s coming. There’s going to be that busted open run. Whether if the ball is handed off to him, or not, or whether it’s thrown to him. He’s in great shape right now. He feels good, he’s patient, and that’s the important thing. He’s not pressing. Patience, it’s a valuable asset as a running back. His time is coming.”

    (On if he thinks DT Aaron Donald can go down as one of the all-time greats and something about Donald that doesn’t show up in the box score)

    “I think, as coaches, you have to be careful about praising your own players. I may step out of the box here – he’s really good, he’s really good. And he’s been there week after week. He’s very, very disruptive. His sack numbers, as we said, they’re not there, but the pressures and the hits and the disruption and the tackles for losses are all there. He’s special.”

    (On if he’s ever had a player as strong as Donald in the interior)

    “I’ve had some good ones. I’ve been around some good ones. When I was around the defensive line in Philadelphia with Jerome Brown inside, Reggie White, we put him inside – they were good ones. He’s just getting started, let me just say that. He’s young in his career and he’s just getting started, and I think his production over the last couple of years speaks for itself.”

    (On how far in advance he needed to prepare for the London game and how different it is)

    “If I hear your question correctly, I didn’t involve the coaching staff and the players with it. But as a head coach, you work with our operations department, you have to plan well in advanced. We had people here at this facility and at the stadium back in March and April. But as far as scheduling is concerned, I personally did that over the last, probably, a month beforehand. It’s important, the scheduling, the little things are important. You have to put the players first and you have to put yourself in the eyes of the player, with respect to every minute of the day. It’s working out, it’s working out good. Again, the time and effort that everybody put in, outside of the coaching staff, with respect to the operations and everything, it’s worked out. So the players are in good shape right now.”

    (On if hype associated with the time zone difference and logistics is justified and if it’s a major shift for the players)

    “It’s different. I think it’s unique for our standpoint because we went Pacific Coast Time to Eastern Time and then we came here. So, it was a huge shift. So it’s all about what you do before you adjust to Eastern Time with the Detroit game and then what we do here. There’s a lot involved and people have taken different approaches, as well. Sometimes teams just come in on Fridays and they pound on player’s doors and say, ‘Wake up,’ and let’s go play. Our first experience here, we thought we were doing the right things and after the first series on offense, things were really good – we had a four or five or six-play drive against New England and thought ‘Alright, they came here Friday, we got here Monday, everything’s good,’ and we lose (45-7). But I think to give the players the best chance to be successful, three things are key – and that’s rest, recuperation, recovery and then, of course, adjusting to the time change.”

    (On what he thinks will be important to see from the team on Sunday to get the win heading into the bye week)

    “The win is the ultimate thing. We’ve shown improvement over the last couple of weeks offensively, we’ve not played to our standards on defense. We’re kind of trading back-and-forth on special teams. We need all three phases, and we need big plays. For all intents and purposes, if you compare the two teams, I think you’re, in all likelihood, it’s going to come down to the end, a play at the end.”

    (On if he would agree with the players who say they’re going into the game with a chip on their shoulder)

    “Yeah, they’re disappointed. From our perspective, a coaching perspective and the player’s perspective, we’ve let two slip that we potentially could have won. They feel like this one’s really important. I don’t know if the chip on the shoulder is the thing, but they’re doing all the extra little things that they need to do – and they’ve done that all year, it doesn’t matter.”

    #55525

    In reply to: the Detroit INT

    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    That was good.

    Case had such a good game — until it counted, in the clutch.

    They were gonna have to complete a medium pass at some point, but
    I woulda preferred he hit the open RB on that play, and then spike the ball.
    They didnt need a TD. They had plenty of time to get in legatron’s range.

    I just think they got a tad impatient.

    w
    v

    #55308
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Robert Anton Wilson had a very low opinion of Carl Sagan.

    Just saying…

    Why?

    Ted Turner is a bit of a dolt, isn’t he?

    I got the impression that as Sagan talked Turner was singing the “Golden Grahams” tune in his head ala Homer Simpson.

    ——————

    R.A.Wilson was a quirky, ornery guy. He wrote quirky books attacking fundamentalist-religions, but he also wrote a book attacking ‘scientific fundamentalism’ (‘The New Inquisition”)

    He was very open to….oh, i think you like to call it “wooo” 🙂

    He thot of Sagan as a scientific fundamentalist. (I dont quite see Sagan that way myself, btw)

    R.A.Wilson was more of a Buckminster Fuller kinda sciency-guy, than a Carl Sagan kinda sciency-guy.

    In a nutshell, Wilson kinda sorta evaluated science-experts on a spectrum of how much ‘woo’ they were open to.

    w
    v
    http://rawilson.com/trigger3.html
    “….Sagan’s hilarious theory of “nuclear winter.”* Briefly, Sagan’s theory holds that nuclear war could result, not just in the horrors we all know, but in a freeze that would probably abolish all life on this planet. (He published this notion in Parade, where his mass audience could see it and gasp.) His refusal to accept valid criticisms of this sci-fi story led to the following summary in Science, official journal of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, “News and Comments” section, Jan 16, 1987:

    Sagan’s refusal to acknowledge merit in the NCAR [National Center for Atmospheric Research]’s analysis — known as “nuclear autumn” — sends some people up the wall. One wall-climber is George Rathjens, professor of political science at M.I.T….”(Sagan’s) claim that the original nuclear winter model is unimpeached [he says]…is the greatest fraud we’ve seen in a long time”….Russell Seiz, a fellow at the Harvard Center for International Affairs…gibes at [Sagan and his co-authors] for mixing physics and advertising.

    Most scientists I have spoken to about Sagan share this dim view of his use of publicity to represent his pet notions as Scientific Truth even when — or especially when — a large segment of the scientific community has severe doubts about these notions.

    (Similarly, in Brocca’s Brain, Sagan rejects data on so-called “out of body experiences” among near-dead patients because — he says — nobody in that state has reported anything they couldn’t have heard while unconscious. But the literature of OOBE has hundreds of cases of such reports, including numerous incidents in which the subjects reported things in rooms far away from the operating room. Once again, we can only wonder if Sagan habitually lies through his teeth or just doesn’t read any of the literature on the subjects upon which he claims Expertese.)

    But returning to Dr. Velikovsky, and Sagan’s crusade against his ideas: … see link”

    #55121

    In reply to: Fisher on Goff

    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams Notes: Jared Goff remaining patient, as are team’s coaches

    RICH HAMMOND / STAFF WRITER

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/goff-731988-rams-every.html

    THOUSAND OAKS – Jared Goff stands – apparently with patience – and waits to enter a regular-season game, even as his quarterback contemporaries have formed a conga line into their respective huddles.

    Goff, the Rams’ No. 1 overall pick in this year’s draft, has yet to take a snap. Goff was inactive for the season opener and has been the backup for the past four games. Rams coaches have taken a tortoise-slow attitude with Goff’s development but have expressed nothing but satisfaction with the rookie.

    Meanwhile, around the league, rookie quarterbacks are playing. Philadelphia’s Carson Wentz, taken second overall, has started four games. Denver’s Paxton Lynch, taken at No. 26, made his first start last week. Third-round picks Jacoby Brissett (New England) and Cody Kessler (Cleveland) have started.

    Among the first six quarterbacks selected last April, only Goff and second-round pick Christian Hackenberg (New York Jets) have yet to take a regular-season snap. Is Goff feeling any frustration?

    “Every situation is different,” Goff said after Wednesday’s practice at Cal Lutheran. “All of these guys who are doing well right now, I’m happy for them. Most of them I’m good friends with, and they’ve done a good job and I’m very happy for them.”

    The Rams’ comfort level with Goff seems to be rising. After the preseason, Coach Jeff Fisher indicated Goff wasn’t ready for an NFL game, thus the inactive status for the opener. This week, Fisher said it was possible Goff would get into a game if the Rams were leading or trailing by a large margin.

    Goff, who turns 22 on Friday, is younger than all five of the rookie quarterbacks who have played this season – Dallas’ Dak Prescott, a fourth-round pick, has started all five games – and Rams coaches said they’re pleased with Goff’s development, and not only as their scout-team quarterback in practices.

    “A lot of time, you understand how a person is learning by the questions he’s asking,” offensive coordinator Rob Boras said. “He’s not asking rookie questions anymore. He’s starting to ask more advanced, the (college-level) 301- or 401-type questions. So for me, it starts there.”

    Goff was asked if he thought his understanding of the game has progressed beyond rookie status.

    “I hope so,” Goff said. “I think I’ve progressed ever since I got here, and I don’t think I’ve ever plateaued or gone backward. I think I’ve gotten better every time, every week, every day. I feel good. I just feel like every day and every week has gotten more and more natural and more like second nature.”

    #55071
    bnw
    Blocked

    Information is good. However if it is used in a campaign to deny over the counter botanical supplements to the consumer then that is bad.

    No one is trying to deny anyone their woo. The article is just saying caution should be used when taking those supplements because it appears they can interfere with real medicines leading to poor outcomes for the patient.

    But that is how the effort to deny begins. Look at Europe.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #55005
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Information is good. However if it is used in a campaign to deny over the counter botanical supplements to the consumer then that is bad.

    No one is trying to deny anyone their woo. The article is just saying caution should be used when taking those supplements because it appears they can interfere with real medicines leading to poor outcomes for the patient.

    #54414
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    ——————-
    http://forums.azcardinals.com/forumdisplay.php?23-Cardinals-Football
    ————–

    Heard a clip on the radio of Tyrann Mathieu saying “We just haven’t found our motivation yet.” What kind of silly statement is that? Any of us telling our boss that when we stink up the place would probably be shown the door and told not to let it hit us on the way out. Ladybird04

    Defensed laid a big fat stinky one.. The Rams were converting on 3rd downs all day..
    —-
    I am so glad Jeff Fisher is our opposing coach
    I couldnt ask for more ! I am so glad Jeff Fisher is our opposing coach
    I couldnt ask for more !
    ===
    Unbelievable. Making Keenum look like Russell Wilson
    —-
    BETCHER… stop rushing just 4. Keenum making Cards looks stupid
    —-
    Rams dirty but still. This is sad
    —-
    Only the Rams high five a player for a flag.

    O line getting abused by 4 rushers
    —-
    Rams games are QB killers …
    —-
    I think Palmer is regressing in front of our eyes. Every Week he is going down hill.

    Betch ‘s ability to coordinate a superbowl champ defense seiously in question. Rams finding openings, short, intermediate…
    —-
    Bettcher is the worst DC ever…..

    Thanks to LA shooting themselves in the foot and keeping us in this game, just wow…
    —-
    we suck
    —-


    Our kick return is an abortion
    —-
    Wow.. never would have thought the cardinals would be 1-3 or in last place in the NFC West a 1/4 way threw the season..
    Screw the Rams.. they’re dirty and purposely head hunt the Cardinals we lose how many player personal every season we play them..
    —-
    Now carson…I hate the rams
    —-
    Who are the Arizona Cardinals? No identity on offense and defense. SB asperiations my ***

    Nice fair catch Peterson. Idiot
    —–

    Play calling is the problem…… Team is not reacting well to this play calling !!! When you call the wrong plays and allow the opposing defense to gain confidence. Your offence loses faith. And so goes for your defense as well. !!!

    How, just how did BA and Keim make this team just ugly, just butt ugly? The stars play like ****, guys in a contract year don’t give a ****, our starters on the oline and dline visibly don’t want to do their jobs. This team or lack of a team is just phatetic.
    —-
    The luster is gone. The league has caught up to Bruce. It took a long time but it has happened
    —-
    1. Bettcher is being exposed. No creativity on the defensive side with the playmakers we have. I don’t think anyone respects him which is why there are so many issues on that side. Maybe there was something to what Woodley said about him last year. Put Badger near the LOS. He’s the one Cardinals defensive player that the opposing offense accounts for. Bettcher has been horrible with garbage game plans all year vs. bum QBs.

    2. BAs refusal to run the ******** football is baffling, also no flexibility in the routes. Maybe it’s a reason that he just got a head coaching job.

    3. Other than Fitz, our WRs run poor routes which is why they can’t get separation.

    4. Team can’t find the switch because it’s been in country club mode all off season. The experts noticed it in the pre-season!!

    5. I think it’s some bad vibes in the locker room with the players that got paid vs. the one’s trying to get paid. Something about the leadership in that locker room isn’t right. Still soft on both sides of the ball.

    6. SPECIAL TEAMS IS HORRIBLE. WE’VE BEEN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE SINCE BA HAS BEEN HERE!! His Buddy Amos Jones needs to go! Also, it looks like we have a bunch of players that have no interest in playing on ST or are our reserves just that bad. No one seems to block ever!!

    7. Drafting/Scouting/Development…….major questions!!

    ——————
    It was working for 6 yards a carrying. DJ should have had 20+ carries before his fumble. We ran it 1 time inside the 5. If BA wanted to send a message he should have pounded it 3 straight times, but no he wants to go empty backfield at the 4. Everyone knows we’re an impatient team and we continue to play into it.
    ————
    Has that play where we’re in the red zone, and throw the ball to John Brown in the corner of the end zone EVER worked? Even once? I seriously flipped out at a friend’s house when I saw us run that play AGAIN for an almost interception. I can’t recall a single time where that pass has even come close to being completed.

    I am amazed at Arian’s infatuation with throwing a ball to the corner of the end zone to a 5’11 180lb receiver.
    ———————–
    I could be totally off base here, but Tyrann Mathieu doesn’t seem to handle frustration very well. I hope he has enough maturity to express things in a constructive way.

    . If you’re driving on the interstate and there’s a car that follows you from 2 yards back but never actually catches you or hits you, it’s probably Kevin Mintor.
    . In most cases, I would say the D played well enough to win today and blame the offense for this one, but Case Keenum? Really?

    Hey, at least we aren’t talking about poor snaps on ST.
    ————–

    #54365
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Jeff Fisher has Rams riding high after victory in desert

    Michael Silver

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000714650/article/jeff-fisher-has-rams-riding-high-after-victory-in-desert

    GLENDALE, Ariz. — He sat in a folding chair a few feet from the showering area of the visitors’ locker room at University of Phoenix Stadium, flashing the tiniest hint of a self-satisfied smile under his ubiquitous Highway Patrolman’s mustache.

    Jeff Fisher, perhaps the NFL’s most maligned coach heading into the 2016 season, was doing his best to low-key the Los Angeles Rams’ 17-13 victory over the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday afternoon, calling his team’s third consecutive triumph after a putrid season opener “an under-the-radar win by a quiet team just going about its business.”

    It was a valiant effort — until I asked Fisher what he’d told his pumped-up players before reporters had entered the locker room, and a man who has spent 22 years of his adult life as an NFL head coach finally stopped concealing the edge that has helped him connect with several generations worth of gridiron warriors and fessed up: “I told them, ‘This was (the Cardinals’) Christmas present. We see them after Christmas (a Jan. 1 rematch at the L.A. Coliseum). This was their Christmas present. We just gave it to them early, OK?'”

    More specifically, Fisher’s trash talk was a parting gift for a certain white-haired gentleman who, at the moment, was feeling pretty far from jolly. Certainly, after watching his highly regarded team fall to 1-3 and seeing his franchise quarterback suffer a concussion on a jarring fourth-quarter takedown, Cardinals coach Bruce Arians did not need to have insult added to injury. Yet Fisher did it anyway, because frankly, at that particular moment — and I paraphrase — he did not give a damn.

    “Go back and see all the s— Bruce said against us a couple of years ago,” Fisher said, referring to Arians’ comments following a 12-6 road victory over the then-St. Louis Rams in December of 2014. (“I love it when nobody says that you will have a chance to win,” Arians had said. “There is an 11-3 team, and a team that is always 8-8. You figure it out.”)

    It’s not hard to figure out why Fisher remains so perturbed by that particular taunt: The always 8-8 stereotype is one that has been used against him increasingly as he struggles to shake the Rams out of their recent pattern of perpetual mediocrity. It’s true that Fisher has had his share of middling campaigns: In 10 of his 20 full seasons as the head coach of the Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Tennessee Titans and Rams, Fisher’s teams have gone either 8-8, 7-9 or 7-8-1. In fairness, he has also had a trio of 13-3 regular seasons, including one from the gritty Titans squad that fell a mere yard short in Super Bowl XXXIV –but it has been 13 years since his last postseason victory, and the noise questioning his credentials has grown more deafening than a Metallica concert.

    The outside world got a glimpse of Fisher’s frustration when, in the season premiere of Hard Knocks: Training Camp With the Los Angeles Rams in August, Fisher referenced the “7-9 bulls—” he vowed no longer to tolerate from his players.

    It was a stirring storyline — until the relocated Rams headed north for their season opener against the San Francisco 49ers last month and soiled themselves on Monday Night Football, suffering a 28-0 defeat in which they mustered only 186 yards of total offense.

    At that point, it looked like Fisher would have trouble winning one game, let alone seven — and that he might not make it past September. Instead, for the Rams and their suddenly swagger-drenched coach, it’s Christmas in October, something exactly no one on the outside saw coming a few weeks ago.

    “Hey, it’s L.A.” quarterback Case Keenum joked as he sat at his locker after Sunday’s victory. “It’s Hollywood. It’s a storyline… and it’s not short on drama.”

    It certainly wasn’t on Sunday, as the Rams pulled out a come-from-behind victory on the strength of a timely Tavon Austin punt return, a second Keenum touchdown pass to receiver Brian Quick with 2:36 remaining and a trio of fourth-quarter takeaways, the last a T.J. McDonald interception of a Drew Stanton Hail Mary as time expired. The Rams’ defensive devastation was an all-day affair, as they forced five turnovers and knocked out Cardinals quarterback Carson Palmer, whose head slammed violently against the turf when he was sacked by L.A. linemen Aaron Donald and Eugene Sims with five-and-a-half minutes remaining.

    And when it was over, for the second consecutive Sunday, the Rams had won a road game they had to sweat out until the final snap — and, with a 3-1 record, remained tied for the NFC West lead with the Seattle Seahawks (a team they defeated in their lone home game of the 2016 season), two games ahead of the struggling Cardinals and Niners.

    To understand how the Rams got here, you have to go back to that abysmal opening night in Santa Clara. As Fisher trudged off the Levi’s Stadium turf, he was being lambasted across the football-watching land — partly because his team looked overmatched, and partly because Jared Goff, the rookie quarterback for whom his team made a blockbuster trade to draft with the first overall pick, was in street clothes while the unheralded Keenum ran (or, in that case, attempted to run) the offense.

    We’ll get to the Goff situation in a moment. First, let’s appreciate the fact that Fisher resisted the compulsion to panic, and that his team responded accordingly.

    “My mindset was really simple,” Fisher recalled. “It was a Monday Night game, and earlier that weekend 15 other teams had lost… and a lot of ’em were good football teams. That was the message to our team, that we’re just one of the 16 teams that lost our opener. I told them, ‘We’re a good football team.’ We put it behind us as quick as we could.”

    Amazingly, Fisher seemed to be speaking the truth. And as the Rams prepared to host the NFL’s first regular-season game in Los Angeles in more than two decades, they vibed off their coach’s calm demeanor.

    “Jeff’s one of the better coaches in the league, in my opinion,” said middle linebacker Alec Ogletree, who had seven tackles against the Cardinals. “He does a great job of taking care of his players, and of getting us prepared, and we love playing for him. We’ve just got to keep playing the way he wants us to play.”

    Added Austin, who likely would have scored Sunday’s winning touchdown had Arizona’s Ifeanyi Momah not dragged him down by the facemask to short-circuit a 47-yard punt return with 5:09 remaining: “After (the 49ers defeat), I definitely was shocked. That wasn’t us. Looking back, I think we were just smelling ourselves — thinking we had arrived without putting in the work we need to put in. One thing about Coach Fisher, he always calms us down and helps us fight back. That’s where the mindset comes from that has allowed us to win these games.”

    Even after their 9-3 victory over the Seahawks at the Coliseum, the Rams still seemed shaky — in two games, they had yet to score a touchdown, which amplified the calls from outsiders for Fisher to make the switch to Goff. Instead, the coach chose to make light of the Rams’ offensive struggles, telling his players in a team meeting two days after the Seahawks victory, “I just unpacked one of the boxes from the move (to the team’s temporary training facility at Cal Lutheran University), and guess what I found in there? Some touchdowns. They do exist!”

    Later that day at practice, Fisher pulled the entire offense out of a drill and asked them to gather at the far side of one of the team’s practice fields. “This is the end zone,” Fisher deadpanned. “See, this is what it feels like.”

    Last Sunday, the Rams’ air attack got untracked in a 37-32 victory over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Keenum (18 of 30, 266 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions) wasn’t as prolific against the Cardinals, and with star second-year running back Todd Gurley (19 carries, 33 yards) continuing to struggle to find any semblance of running room, it took a full-team effort to vanquish the Cardinals (1-3), who have now lost as many regular-season games as they did in all of 2015.

    In other words, the NFC West Crisis Watch has officially migrated east to the Valley of the Sun, while the Rams head back to Tinseltown riding high in advance of Sunday’s home game against the Buffalo Bills. And while it’s still possible Keenum could give way to Goff at some point this season, he remains the Rams’ leading man — at least in the eyes of the people who matter most.

    “Here’s what Case is to us: He’s 6-2 in our last eight games,” Rams general manager Les Snead said. “That’s the definition of him.”

    And Goff, who was the team’s second-string quarterback Sunday, says he’s perfectly cool with Fisher’s patient approach — with a not-so-surprising caveat.

    “As long as we’re winning, I’m good,” he said after Sunday’s game. “We’re 3-1, and I’m just trying to enjoy it.”

    For one thing, Goff understands that Fisher’s preference for easing him into his lofty role is a philosophical one. This was the way the coach handled the early stages of the late Steve McNair’s Titans career, with highly successful results, and Fisher says he will do what he believes is best for Goff’s development and for the franchise’s long-term interests, period.

    “That’s clear — and it’s been that way from Day 1,” Fisher said. “Our rookie quarterback is making really good progress. Our rookie quarterback is a Case Keenum fan, and Case is a Jared fan. It’s all good.”

    While Fisher and his assistants would like to see Goff reduce the amount of interceptions he throws against the scout team, they’re convinced that if thrown into the fray immediately, he has the physical skill, instincts and intelligence to thrive. That said, they recognize that he is only 21, and that many successful quarterbacks — including Palmer, now 36 — benefitted by observing and learning in the early part of their careers.

    So, even though No. 2 overall draft pick Carson Wentz has had a strong start for the Philadelphia Eagles, and other rookie quarterbacks have been effective in the first month of the 2016 season, Fisher has no qualms about playing the long game with Goff.

    Said one Rams assistant coach: “Wentz turns 24 later this year. Goff is 21. This is a lot to take in for a 21-year-old. We said in our draft meetings, if you had to play a guy right away, you’d probably take Wentz, cause he played in a pro-style system and is older. The whole point with Jared is that he doesn’t have to play right away. We love the kid.”

    Staying patient with the future face of the franchise would not seem to be the preferred approach of a man coaching for his job — but Fisher, to his credit, doesn’t seem to be especially stressed out by any of that. He declined to comment on his contract status, including the whispers that he and the Rams have already hammered out a multi-year extension that has yet to be announced, but he certainly exudes the confidence of a man who feels very secure about his present situation.

    Fisher is the first to concede that his immediate past wasn’t as fulfilling as it might have been: His first four seasons with the Rams — and the first week of his fifth season — were not without their share of 7-9 BS, or worse.

    “I know what took place here from the day we walked in the door,” Fisher said. “We took over a 2-14 team that was depleted. And we played six different quarterbacks. And now we’re starting to get some stability, and we think we can take it a lot further.”

    And if Fisher’s right? Well, Christmas in Tinseltown could be pretty festive this year, and January could be even better.

    #54163
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    “But Can He Make Music?” Thoughts on Rookie Quarterbacks

    Matt Waldman

    link: https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2016/09/08/but-can-he-make-music-thoughts-on-rookie-quarterbacks/

    I was wrong to think that Jared Goff was the most pro ready of the 2016 rookie quarterback class. I underestimated the difficulty of the transition from Cal’s Air Raid offense to the Rams’ West Coast system. But I don’t think this is a big deal if you’re focused on the true North of the compass for what matters most for a young quarterback:

    Long-term development.

    Most people aren’t oriented this way. What we see written and discussed in major media reinforces the fallacy that rookie quarterbacks need to perform well immediately. When a lesser-regarded prospect outperforms a player of higher regard, there’s often a one-to-one comparison of the two and there shouldn’t be.

    Quarterbacks are a lot like musicians and it’s problematic to judge two rookie quarterbacks during the rehearsal process. They’re learning how to interact with their band and the performance environment and each band and environment has enough differences that most boom-bust conclusions are short-sighted.

    Jared Goff is learning an entirely new system. Will Hewlett–a quarterback coach and consultant to high school, college and professional passers–says the transition from the Air Raid system at Cal to a West Coast system with the Rams is like learning Chinese.

    If you’ve ever taken language lessons as an adult, it becomes apparent almost immediately that the process sublimate the winning traits of your personality. Learning Chinese? Forget having a quick wit or great sense of humor for months.

    Are you known for your sensitivity? You’ll be so busy focusing on what people are saying that you only catch a glimpse of how they’re saying it. Facial expressions and tone of voice are like third and fourth reads for a quarterback at your opponent’s 45 on 3rd and 12 with 1:34 left on the clock, down by 3, and dealing with the potential for A-gap pressure and missing that DE dropping into the flat.

    You’re still sensitive, witty, and intelligent. You still have those skills and others but they won’t show up nearly as often when first learning that new language. Goff’s stats show that he’s not handling pressure well and he’s make critical errors but to conclude that he’s lost these skills or analysts were wrong for ever seeing them, glosses over the realities of learning a complex system.

    And the West Coast system is the most difficult offense to learn. It’s the most common one in the league because coaches have witnessed how unstoppable it can be when at its best. However, there are few quarterbacks who can run it at that level.

    It’s like staring in one band as a tenor saxophonist and then being asked to perform a ballad like the one shown above on the soprano. There are multiple, subtle demands to evoking deep emotions from the audience and the main performer’s flaws are at much greater risk of exposure to the crowd.

    Jared Goff’s learning curve is far different but he’s judged along the same standard. RamsWire writer Jeff Smith has done a good job of telling Rams fans to freak out that Goff is the No.3 quarterback after the preseason. Smith is correct that the Rams invested a lot of capital in Goff, analysts (like me) thought Goff was the most pro-ready quarterback in the class, and Goff’s statistics haven’t been good.

    But the stats only show that Goff’s results are bad and they way they are presented, there’s a presumption that Goff should display the same qualities that made him productive at Cal. This is a bad presumption.

    The Cowboys have asked Prescott to play his best ax as a part of a strong group of players and perform songs with strict time boundaries, comfortable tempos, and tightly rehearsed forms. The Rams want Goff to learn a similar but slightly different and temperamental instrument and perform songs that have a lot more variables.

    Goff is doing a lot more thinking than performing and it’s why he’s the No.3 option. If the Rams ownership has a clue, Goff’s temporary tenure as the final backup on the depth chart is more annoying when answering media questions than it is in the locker room.

    Jeff Fisher gets his share of media criticism as an overrated coach but he believed in bringing quarterbacks along slowly. He wanted Vince Young to rely more on his brains than his body but Young didn’t become a student of the game. After a great rookie year with the team working around Young’s talents, opposing defenses generated more demands for Young to succeed and he didn’t study enough to meet them.

    Steve McNair was a student of the game and he evolved into one of the more underrated pocket passers of his time. McNair didn’t start immediately and there were concerns early on that McNair wasn’t worth the No.3 overall pick in the draft. Fisher and the Titans were patient and it paid off.

    Brett Hundley was the No.3 quarterback last year. He’s now considered a promising backup with starter potential. The notable difference in perception between Hundley and Goff is that Goff was the No.1 overall pick and Hundley dropped to the middle rounds in 2015.

    Those in the know understand that Hundley was considered an early round talent entering his junior year. If he stayed at UCLA last year, he might have earned a high-round selection.

    The public pressure on Goff and the Rams has greater intensity due to the number of picks the team traded to invest in the rookie. But if the Rams ownership and executive team is thinking clearly, they’ll look at Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady’s career arcs.

    Neither players was remotely a No.1 overall pick in the draft. Brady began his career as the No.3. Most teams would have spent more on these two players in their prime than what the Rams spent on Goff.

    So when readers ask me, “What do you think about Jared Goff and Dak Prescott now?” it’s all about my frame of perspective. For fantasy football, Goff is a player that I’ll monitor. He’s a potential waiver-wire player in re-draft leagues later in the year.

    Prescott is at least a temporary starter with actual value in daily fantasy formats. He’s also capable of strong opening month in season-long formats.

    In dynasty leagues, I’m still drafting Goff over Prescott and there’s no hesitation. If anything, I’m getting better value on Goff. The bump in Prescott’s value makes him a little less attractive although the opportunity to solidify his future as a starter is a lot more compelling in the immediate present.

    Beyond the immediate fantasy implications of late summer and early fall, I stand by the process that led me to the results that I publish every April.

    If the Rams give Goff the time the Packers and Patriots gave to their starters–or even Washington inadvertently gave to Kirk Cousins while rushing the process with Robert Griffin III–Goff has the talent to thrive. His pocket presence, accuracy, and feel for the game hasn’t left. The new system is forcing him to think rather than play.

    If the Cowboys continue to surround Prescott with a strong band and can spotlight the rookie’s confidence and athletic ability, he’ll succeed this year. If they gradually feed him more options and responsibilities so he can grow into a well-rounded leader of an offense, he develop into a complete player.

    Quarterbacking is like making music. Thanks to our digital age, most young quarterbacks have more access to technical coaching, nutrition and training programs, and football theory than their predecessors.

    Look at their technique, athletic ability, and understanding of specific offensive ideas in a vacuum and they appear more pro-ready than in the past. But just like musicians who developed the optimal physical techniques to produce a good sound, memorized hot licks, and gained extensive knowledge of harmony, none of it matters if they can’t make it all sound musical.

    #54159
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    Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher – September 30, 2016

    (On the health of the team)

    “It’s in good shape. The only one that we didn’t have on the field this week was (DE) Will Hayes. He’ll be a game-time decision. Everybody else was good.”

    (On the biggest difference between facing a mobile quarterback, than a pocket passer)

    “He’s been in the pocket his whole career. He’s been very, very effective, and he’s won a lot of games over his career in the pocket. Believe it or not, he can move in the pocket. He’s not stationary there, he’s got a good sense, and he always keeps his eyes down field. We have to collapse the pocket as quickly as we can. Fortunately for (QB) Carson (Palmer), unfortunately for us, he’s tall, he can see. So, he knows what’s going on down the field, and he makes the right decisions. He’s got some great targets too.”

    (On if the team senses how big of a game this is)

    “Yeah, they get a feel for it. Last week was big, and the week before, every one is big. But yeah, this is a division game. We know them really well. They’re coming off a rough loss and a road trip, and they’re going to be ready. Every one is a challenge. The philosophy against these guys, and anybody for that matter, don’t watch the scoreboard, just play, just play. We’ll tell them what the score is halftime or the third quarter, just keep playing. You can’t get consumed with negative plays. They’re going to make some big plays, and we’re going to make some big plays. You expect this thing to come down to the end, as most of them do.”

    (On his thoughts of the game at Arizona last season)

    “It started off rough, as it always does against them in the run game. Fortunately for us, we scored points, and we were able to stay with the run game in the second half. That’s when we broke out and he made most of his plays, and then the four-minute run which was extraordinary. They didn’t let him do it the next time around. We came back again in September, and we didn’t play well. We had some injuries, and they got that thing fixed. They gave up some runs at Buffalo last weekend. They’re going to be determined not to give up any big plays, so we’re going to have to block better than we have.”

    (On his philosophy behind the new kickoff rule change)

    “I think it changes week-to-week. It really depends on the return concepts, what we think of their return scheme and their blockers, their returner. But given the choice, I much rather knock someone, or block here down on the 15-yard line, than just bring the ball out of the end zone and put them on the 25 (-yard line). It’s going to be an important game for us field-position wise.”

    (On what will WR Pharoh Cooper bring to the offense, once he’s healthy enough to play)

    “Hopefully, some first downs; that’s the big thing. Going out and catching first downs. He’s shown, since he’s been here, that he’s pretty effective in the plus territory. First downs and touchdowns would be great if he’s up.”

    ***

    Rams Defensive Coordinator Gregg Williams – September 29, 2016

    (On how the secondary has performed so far)

    “Those guys play every week, they scramble hard. I’m really pleased with how (defensive backs coach) Brandon (Fisher) and (secondary coach) Dennard (Wilson) are coaching them. I’ve been around both those guys for so long and it’s fun for me to hear those coaches take some raw and sometimes young projects and teach them to play the way we want them to play – because we play very aggressive secondary concepts and stuff. Those guys have grown a lot, (CB) Troy (Hill) has come in here and battled for a spot, (DB) Coty’s (Sensabaugh) still battling and E.J. (Gaines), it’s going to be fun to see if he answers the bell this week – the head coach will make the determination – it’s been a while since he’s played. He had a really good camp, I like him a lot, I know an awful lot about him from the high school he grew up in, in the same conference that I grew up in back over in Kansas City. It’ll be fun to see those guys play. But the safeties have really come a long way, also. And all those guys, they have their work cut out for them when we are able to play the run aggressively and force you to throw the ball 58 times in a game. You can get hung up on all the analytics you want, but when you force somebody to throw it 58 times in a game, it’s because they can’t run it. And those guys have a lot of heat on them at all times, and this league is a throwing league. There are some teams that’ll still try to pound you – one of them is coming up – the Arizona Cardinals, I have so much respect for (Cardinals head coach) Bruce Arians, I’ve gone against him for so many different years at so many different spots and I’ve been at so many different spots. We’re going to have to play the run really hard and they’ve got a quarterback that can take shots on you down the field.”

    (On defensive back being a thankless job with the cards stacked against you)

    “In a lot of ways in the league and also in the interpretation of the rules. The more physical you are, the better you are – they’ll come up with a new rule next year because everybody wants to see the ball thrown more.”

    (On what becomes the measuring stick)

    “The measuring stick is this, it’s that points allowed. And we have to do a good job, we have to make a few more field goals happen down in the red zone. The first game, third game, we didn’t do as well there as we would like to do, but they played very aggressively. When you make an earned play – those guys get paid, too – and when they make tight throws, some of the quarterbacks in our league, and we’ve played against some good ones already, can make the tight throws and uncover the receivers against very good leverage that our defensive backs are playing with – (Cardinals QB) Carson Palmer is one of those guys.”

    (On the Cardinals’ receiver group)

    “Outstanding. They’ve good deep speed and a future Hall of Famer in (WR) Larry Fitzgerald – he can uncover against any kind of coverage, and he plays basketball on grass. He does a very good job and Carson trusts him so much, to be able to uncover on whatever coverage you are running. Even in double situations, when you double that guy, he’s still able to get open in those situations. They’ve got a good mix, they’ve got a good plan, they’ve got a good conceptual plan on how Bruce wants them to play in the offensive philosophy and we’ve got our work cut out for us.”

    (On what is says about DT Aaron Donald that he can play defensive end and still play very well)

    “He played all four positions for us last week, really. And let’s talk about seven positions – because we have four positions when we have four D-linemen out there and we have three other positions when we have our three-down packages. He played in all seven of those spots last week, that’s the kind of guy you want. And I’ve said this before, every single player on defense has to play a primary position and backup position, he played a backup in seven different positions, and that speaks volumes for him. He didn’t even bat an eye, he got out there and played for us and played very strong in those areas. People want to get hung up on the sacks part of it, that will come. He is such a good football player, he can do so many things I can’t even coach. He’s so intelligent, he gives us a lot of pitches to be able to throw out there and he helped us in some tough situations at the D-line – injury position and then we lost one on an ejection. It was pretty good that he did that.”

    (On what getting pressure on a team that throws a deep ball does)

    “You would like to say this – and our guys get tired of hearing me say – that rush and coverage work hand-in-hand. The first thing I look at on a deep ball is not the defensive back, I look at the rush, that’s the very first person I blame. A defensive back that has to cover somebody 45, 50 yards down the field and a D-lineman has a one-on-one rush – in some cases, maybe he’s doubled – but there’s somebody that’s up there that had a one-on-rush for five steps. No, no, no, no, I look at the rush first over the deep coverage concepts, that’s how we play defense, hand-in-hand. We have to do a better job at that, and we’ve done pretty good, we’ve eliminated a lot of shots last week. (Buccaneers QB) Jameis Winston had been taking a ton of shots. How many shots did he take against us? I’ll tell you, none. But Carson and Bruce will do a good job, and we’re going to have to handle that situation.”

    ***

    Rams Running Back Todd Gurley – September 30, 2016

    (On last year’s game against Arizona – first career start):

    “First start, yeah. First win. Gave up a touchdown. It was a good game. It was my first start and we were on the road, division opponent – we went in there and we won. It was a good feeling for sure.”

    (On whether he was nervous prior to his first career start against Arizona last year)

    “Not really. I had played the week before, got like six carries. I was just so anxious to get back on the field, because I went for like six carries for nine yards. So, I was just ready to play again, try to redeem myself.”

    (On how much closer he felt to busting a long run in last week’s game against Tampa Bay, versus how he felt in the first two games)

    “Definitely, I felt like stuff got going – definitely in the second half. There’s always that, you’re just so close, you just got to stay patient and hopefully, it’ll come soon. It’s definitely been opening up.”

    (On whether that 15 – yard run he had last year against Arizona, ranks up with the better ones he’s had in his career thus far)

    “Probably like top 10.”

    (On whether it would’ve been higher if he had got a touchdown)

    “Yeah, it probably would’ve been top five, if I got the touchdown.”

    (On what he sees when he watches that run on film)

    “Just good balance. Just able to keep myself up with my arm, doing pop-up drills. Just hard running and of course, (WR) Tavon (Austin) blocking his tail off for me, definitely saw that. Hopefully, I can get some more runs like that this week.”

    (On why the Cardinals’ defense is so hard to run against)

    “They’re just physical. They have great linebackers, great defensive lineman, and their DB’s can tackle –they want to tackle, and they have great ball skills. They’re just a great overall defense. They come with a lot of blitzes.”

    (On whether Arizona is a defense that if you get past the first level you can go all the way)

    “Yeah, if the Honey Badger (S Tyrann Mathieu) doesn’t come to get you or ‘Pat P’ (CB Patrick Peterson), he’s fast as well. They have some players, for sure – (DT) Calais (Campbell), ‘Pat P’, (LB Kevin) Minter – a lot of guys that can play different positions. That’s what makes them unique.”

    (On what he remembers about Arizona’s four minute drill during last year’s game)

    “Like I said, going down on that touchdown, I could’ve got it, but you know, just wanting to get out of there, and get in victory formation. But it’s definitely a good feeling, be in it for a minute – running the ball, able to get first downs at the end of the game. That’s what it’s all about. We didn’t get a chance to do that last week –hopefully, we can do it again this week.”

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    Rams’ offense takes ‘a step,’ still has work to do

    Alden Gonzalez

    http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/30975/rams-offense-takes-a-step-still-has-work-to-do

    THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. — The Los Angeles Rams’ offense is in no way great, but it is improving. The unit has gone from 185 yards from scrimmage in Week 1 to 283 yards in Week 2 to 320 yards in Week 3. On Sunday, in a 37-32 win against Tampa Bay that made them 2-1 for the first time in 10 years, the Rams not only became the last team to score a touchdown; they scored four on offense.

    “It’s a step,” Rams quarterback Case Keenum said. “I think each week is. We’re trying to get better. I think for us, it’s not something that we dwell on, not scoring touchdowns. Maybe you guys [the media] probably did a little more than we did; just a little bit. That’s something we came here to do, and we’re all used to doing. Everybody in that meeting room, we’re used to scoring touchdowns. It felt normal, felt right, felt good.”

    The Rams face a big test at University of Phoenix Stadium on Sunday, against an Arizona team that has beaten them four of the past five times and will be eager to avenge a lopsided defeat against hapless Buffalo in Week 3. Even in the midst of a surprising 1-2 start, the Cardinals rank within the top 10 in points per game. And the Rams’ offense will have to be at its best to keep up.

    It’ll be up to Keenum, who has played better of late — 32-of-56 for 429 yards, two touchdowns and an interception — but still has the worst Total QBR among the 31 qualified quarterbacks. And it will be up to the offensive line, which must do a better job opening up holes for Todd Gurley, who ranks 39th out of 45 running backs in yards per carry.

    Rams coach Jeff Fisher has continually said Gurley is “very close” to breaking off big runs.

    “The cliché that it’s a game of inches has been around for a long time for a reason,” Rams offensive coordinator Rob Boras said. “There’s a lot of those where you can see — whether it’s a couple inches or a foot, whatever it is — where it’s potential to being an explosive run. We’re just going to be patient with it, and they’re going to come.”

    The Cardinals are the team Gurley broke out against last season. It was Week 4, which marked his first NFL start, when Gurley rushed for 146 yards on 19 carries, on his way to an unprecedented four-game stretch to begin his carreer. But those same Cardinals held Gurley to 41 yards on nine carries when they met again in Week 13. And if you go back to his past 11 games, Gurley has gained triple-digit yardage on the ground only once.

    The Rams attained more points and more rushing yards in Week 3 than they did in their first two weeks combined, but they have still managed an NFL-worst three trips to the red zone, after getting into the red zone an NFL-worst 36 times last season.

    Boras simply called Sunday’s win “another step” for his offense.

    “I think it was a step in the right direction. There’s a lot of positives that we’re going to try to build on. And just like any time you play a game, there’s a lot of things there that were mistakes or things that we left out there that we know we can do better. It was, again, a step — probably a bigger step than it was the week before — and we’re going to continue to get better.”

    Some additional notes coming out of Wednesday’s practice …
    The Rams acquired defensive back Marqui Christian off waivers from the Cardinals. To make room on the roster, defensive back Isaiah Johnson was waived. Christian is from Midwestern State and was drafted in the fifth round this year.

    Receiver Tavon Austin was limited in practice with what the team called a shoulder injury. Cornerback E.J. Gaines was a full participant, as were receivers Pharoh Cooper and Nelson Spruce, a strong indication that all three will debut in Week 3. Defensive end Will Hayes (ankle), cornerback Lamarcus Joyner (toe), and defensive tackle Dominique Easley (illness) were held out.

    Defensive tackle Aaron Donald on Houston Texans star J.J. Watt, who might not play again this season after re-injuring his back: “It’s tough for him. You never want to hear about a guy being injured, missing a season. Definitely not a guy who plays at such a high level as that guy. … He’s a playmaker. Any time a guy is flying around, making plays like that, he’s going to be a fun player to watch. Definitely somebody you respect and you tune in to watch.”

    Cardinals coach Bruce Arians called the Rams’ defensive line “one of the best” and identified Donald and defensive end Robert Quinn as “two complete game-wreckers.” Arians called Alec Ogletree “a perfect “Mike” linebacker for that system, because of his speed. He can hang on the pass, and then still make up for it on the run.”

    #54087
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Jared Goff’s slow progress with Rams reminds Arizona’s Carson Palmer of his own long wait

    JACK WANG

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/palmer-730500-season-goff.html

    Thirteen years ago, Carson Palmer sat and waited.

    He had been the No. 1 overall pick in the 2003 draft, the Heisman winner out of USC, and the best hope for the Cincinnati Bengals to turn themselves around from a run of 11 losing records in 12 seasons.

    And still, he sat and waited. Through his entire rookie season, the quarterback never appeared in a game. Instead, the Bengals took a slower route with Palmer’s development, letting Jon Kitna mentor him while the team waddled its way to an 8-8 record.

    More than a decade later, the Rams are doing the same with top-drafted quarterback Jared Goff, plopping him on the bench while journeyman Case Keenum tries to turn around what has been one of the league’s most anemic offenses.

    This Sunday at University of Phoenix Stadium, when the Cardinals host the Rams, Palmer will stand within sight of Goff – at once a symbol of what could lie ahead, and of a more patient, bygone era.

    In the early 2000s, it was not at all out of style to sit rookie quarterbacks. Even on the day of the draft, there was little expectation that Palmer would contribute immediately.

    But Goff, who has yet to appear in an NFL regular-season game, is now a glaring exception, becoming the first top-drafted quarterback not to start a season opener since Jamarcus Russell in 2007. Not only that, four other rookies have already been thrown into the fire this season, the best of whom is No. 2 overall pick Carson Wentz, who has led the Eagles to a 3-0 start.

    This youth movement around the league has not changed Jeff Fisher’s approach with Goff, who struggled in the preseason.

    “I’m happy for young quarterbacks when they have success,” the Rams coach said this week, “but we have our own sense of timing here with him.”

    Fisher added that the four others have been thrust into action due to injuries, whether on their team or elsewhere. Wentz moved up to first string after Philadelphia traded Sam Bradford to the Vikings, who had lost Teddy Bridgewater to a dislocated knee and torn ACL. Dak Prescott (Cowboys), Jacoby Brissett (Patriots) and Cody Kessler (Browns) – all of whom were either third- or fourth-round picks this spring – have been injury replacements.

    Palmer seems inclined to side with Fisher. “You either throw the guy in there or you let him sit back and rest,” he said Wednesday. “Only the coaches know what’s going on within the building, know what’s best for the team.”

    That Palmer waited a full year to start certainly did not hurt his career. The Santa Margarita High graduate made back-to-back Pro Bowls in 2005 and 2006, and won an AFC North title. A severe knee injury set him back, but after an acrimonious split with the Bengals and an unproductive stint in Oakland, Palmer staged a comeback last season by providing MVP-caliber play for Arizona.

    The Cardinals have stumbled out of the gate this season, losing two of their first three games despite being one of the preseason favorites to reach the Super Bowl. But Palmer, whom Arizona’s Bruce Arians described as the most “resilient guy that I’ve ever coached,” has seen it all already.

    He was also 24 years old when he made his first NFL start. Goff is still two weeks shy of 22.

    Sitting out his first year, Palmer said, gave him a chance to learn the ropes.

    “You have a chance to watch how this league is – how you prepare as a starter, how you go about your business as a starter, especially if you’re coming from a very non-pro style offense,” Palmer said. “Seeing how offenses prepare, seeing the different pressures you’re going to see and the different defenses you’re going to see.

    “It’s tough if you’re not ready and you get thrown in there. If you struggle, it can linger.”

    #54076
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher – September 28, 2016

    (Opening remarks)
    “Well you can see how fast the days go by, and the weeks go by in our business. Really good day today. We backed down a little bit, just because of what we went through Sunday late afternoon. Players are off tomorrow. We’ll see most of them, and we’ll finish up strong on Friday. We’ve got a great opponent, very well-coached team, all three phases. We know each other very well. It’s going to come down to making some plays. The plan is going in well. Come Sunday, it’s going to be in the players’ hands. I like our chances.”

    (On if he reminded the players that they’re facing the defending NFC West Champions)
    “The players know that, they know that. Year after year it’s either Seattle or Arizona or San Francisco. They know that, they know we also have a great opportunity to play one of the best teams in ball, based on the way they played last year, and they’re playing well. The division is not at stake right now, it’s just the outcome that we’re dedicated to.”

    (On how to get RB Todd Gurley going, and the role he plays in freeing up the passing game)
    “They witnessed it as well. They’re going to do everything they can so it doesn’t happen again, and we have to find a way. Obviously, Todd’s production in this game is going to be important towards having a chance to win. We’re going to have to get him involved, and keep him involved throughout the game. That game there, I think it was Week 4, he was involved until the end. The game-breaker was the big run where he took a knee, and all that. But, we can’t let this game become one-dimensional. That’s going to be up to our offense, and our defense, and our special teams.”

    (On his thoughts regarding the new kickoff rule of bringing the ball out to the 25-yard line)
    “I got off the committee this offseason, so this rule change was made after I got off the committee.”

    (On if he game plans around making sure kickoffs stay out the end zone, to ensure a return)
    “Any time you change a rule like that there, what the competition committee refers to is there’s going to be unintended consequences. So, you don’t know until you go through it. My understanding is it’s just for a year, and we’ll see. But, that’s a discussion that I would’ve had, had I been there, is that we may just increase the number of kickoffs. You just bang the ball out of the back of the end zone, the ball is on the 25-yard line. Especially if you got kickers now with hang time, they can drop the ball a couple yards deep and entice the returner to come out, or on the goal line, and you got a good cover scheme, you can knock people down inside the 20-yard line. So, you gain the field position advantage. But I haven’t seen the numbers, so I don’t know where the numbers are after three weeks.”

    (On if game planning around the kickoff rule change is something he’s discussed with the team)
    “That’s a competitive issue. I’ll say maybe (laughter).”

    (On if he’s seen a shift in the team’s confidence from Week 1 to now)
    “No, I don’t. There was disappointment after Week 1, but we pulled them out of it. That’s what we’re most proud of right now. There’s no lack of confidence at all. They have confidence in each other and they’re playing together. I think that’s carried us through the last couple weeks.”

    (On his relationship with Cardinals QB Carson Palmer)
    “I just have great respect for him, wherever he’s been. He had some great years there at Cincinnati. There was that, ‘What if’ that was kind of that defining moment there on whether he was going to play or not, and then he got a chance to go to Oakland, and now he’s found a great home with (Head Coach) Bruce (Arians) there, and great people around him. He’s highly competitive, and every time we play them it’s quite a challenge.”

    (On how important it is to limit a high-powered offense, like Arizona, to field goals when defending the red zone)
    “Any time you play an offense like this, it’s like the old Peyton Manning days. You have to take the approach that field goals are a win for your defense. The ball is going to get pushed down the field, you got to keep them out of the end zone – a field goal is a win. So when you take that approach, you have to counter it with touchdowns to have a chance to beat them.”

    (On his thoughts regarding Dodgers broadcaster Vin Scully)
    “Yeah, I got a chance to send him a voice-over. My memories of Vin were the hot summer nights here in the Valley and that little AM radio…it was actually wood…and it just had a volume, and you had to move the dial. But listening to him on the summer nights, going to sleep listening to the broadcast with (Ron) Cey, (Steve) Garvey, and (Bill) Russell, and (Davey) Lopes, that was my era growing up. He’s had a fabulous career. I understand that his last comments on the final home game was a walk-off. How appropriate is that for him? He’s a legend in my mind.”

    (On if he knew that walk-off home run occurred during the lightening delay in Tampa)
    “I did not know that, no. Wow, there’s a lot of things going on (laughter).”

    ***

    Rams Offensive Coordinator Rob Boras – September 28, 2016

    (On if he saw some improvement on Sunday from previous weeks)
    “Yeah, like I said a week ago, it was another step. I think it was a step in the right direction. There’s a lot of positives that we’re going to try to build on. And just like any time you play a game, there’s a lot of things there that were mistakes or things that we left out there that we know we can do better. It was, again, a step, probably a bigger step than it was the week before and we’re going to continue to get better.”

    (On if there are times when he’s watching film of RB Todd Gurley and he’s just missing a big run seemingly by an inch)
    “The cliché that it’s a game of inches has been around for a long time for a reason. There’s a lot of those where you can see whether it’s a couple inches or a foot, whatever it is, where it’s a potential to being an explosive run. We’re just going to be patient with it and they’re going to come. Again, that one run he had down in the low redzone that he took from the 16 (yard-line) down to the one was about as good of a 15-yard run as I think you’re ever going to see. I think, again, as effective as he was, it’s going to continue to get better for us.”

    (On if seeing Gurley being that close to a big run gives him hope that it’s just around the corner)
    “Sure, and we’ve seen it in the past and we’re going to see it again sooner than later. He is as talented of a runner as I’ve ever been around and we’re going to continue to get better in the run game blocking and he’s going to make his decisions. There’s going to be some good things that are going to happen for us.”

    (On possibly being two games ahead of Arizona in the standings with a win this week)
    “There’s a lot of football left, though. That’s all you can do is play the game that’s in front of you and you can’t look ahead. We’ve played three games, we’ve got a lot more to go, so we’re going to take this one and then we’ll move on to whoever we have next and see what happens.”

    (On the importance of potentially being two games above .500 after Sunday)
    “Yeah, again, anytime you can get above .500 is a great thing. Again, there’s a lot of football left, the guys know it and we’re focusing on Arizona right now. Once we focus on Arizona, then we’ll move onto the next one. Anytime you win, it’s really good, I’m not trying to belittle it, we just have to focus on this game in front of us right now.”

    (On what is holding TE Tyler Higbee back after having a strong preseason)
    “Tyler is playing probably between 22 and 30 snaps a game, so he’s getting on the field. He hasn’t had the targets, really, since the San Fran game and that’s not necessarily always by design, either, it’s just the progression of where the ball is going. He’s getting better. Again, as a former tight end coach, the success of a tight end is not always based on receptions, there’s a lot of other things that we ask him to do. On the touchdown pass to (WR) Tavon (Austin) in the fourth quarter, Tyler was in protecting. For a guy that used to be a converted wide receiver, he had a big block in protection because (TE) Lance (Kendricks) wasn’t on the field. I know we all want to see catches, but there’s a lot more things that tight ends do and we’re pleased with the direction that Tyler’s going.”

    (On if it was a relief to get the team’s first touchdown last week)
    “We knew it was coming.”

    (On Todd Gurley’s breakout game last year against the Cardinals and things Arizona might look at on film to prevent)
    “Any time you play a team in your conference like we have with Seattle a couple weeks ago and now with Arizona, we know each other. They do what they do, we do what we do. They know what we do and we know what they do. Again, it’s just trusting the process and you’re going to try to window dress some things, but we’re going to run our plays and try to take advantage of what we think we can do to spring not only Todd, but (RB) Benny (Cunningham) or in the pass game, to have our success as well.”

    (On how big it was, confidence-wise for QB Case Keenum that the first touchdown was scored on a long pass)
    “Obviously, it’s going to help confidence. I don’t care if it was a one-yard pass or a 44-yard pass. Anytime you score a touchdown is a good thing. All of us and, again, being the first drive of the game, we’ve scored twice in a row now, with a field goal against Seattle and a touchdown (against Tampa Bay). When you can start fast, and this time with a touchdown, it gives everybody confidence and it lets everybody play a little more confident and hopefully a little faster and go out there. The fact that it was a long one is great, but the fact that we scored, however it was, was more important.”

    (On if he has any direct communication with Keenum on the sidelines)
    “I can talk a couple different ways. We have a headset down there or I can talk to him – I can pick up the telephone or just talk through (quarterbacks) coach (Chris) Weinke to get to him.”

    (On if he had any message for him after Keenum’s interception)
    “You just have to play, there’s a lot of football left. We all saw what happened, obviously a mistake, but we also knew there was a lot of football left and you have got to play the next play. And that’s what, I think, he did and the rest of the team did – you had a play the next play and we moved on.”

    (On if it is a big accomplishment to possibly be 3-1 with three of the first four games on the road)
    “Yeah, I think our guys are getting more confident right now. To start like that would be great. The thing is, as we all know, there was still a lot of things that we want to get better at and that’s the challenge. The new challenges are now we are playing the Arizona Cardinals, who are a really good football team. To get to 3-1, again, would be great, but we have to focus on playing the game and see what happens. Arizona is a very talented football team.”

    (On how Arizona’s aggressiveness on defense impacts what the offense is going to try to do)
    “Like I said, they are a very good defense, they are aggressive with their pressures. Again, we’re just going to have to do what we do. We’re anticipating the pressure and we’re going to have some answers for it and see if we can take advantage of some of those.”

    (On if there is anything he notices that Arizona is doing differently this year)
    “Everybody has the wrinkles. Just like, I think when they look at us, offensively, they’re going to see some things we do different. And that’s why you have an offseason and OTAs and training camp, so there’s always a couple things that you see. It’s still the Arizona Cardinals’ defense when you see it.”

    ***

    Rams Quarterback Case Keenum – September 28, 2016

    (On executing on offense – scoring four touchdowns)
    “We executed – we executed in crucial situations. I think two of them were on third downs. Getting down to the red zone even with negative plays, you know, we overcame those things. Got in goal line situations, let 30 (RB Todd Gurley) do what 30 does.”

    (On whether it is a big step offensively)
    “It’s a step. I think each week is. We’re trying to get better. I think for us, it’s not something that we dwell on, not scoring touchdowns. Maybe you guys probably did a little more than we did – just a little bit. That’s something we came here to do, and we’re all used to doing, everybody in that meeting room, we’re used to scoring touchdowns. It felt normal, felt right, felt good.”

    (On how it felt, from a confidence standpoint, getting the first touchdown on a long pass)
    “Awesome. It was fun. Anytime you score touchdowns – I tend to get pretty juiced up. Especially, when you throw them. On a third down conversion to have, my guy (WR Brian) Quick, make a big play down the field, it felt really good.”

    (On the biggest difference between the first game against the 49ers and last Sundays games against the Buccaneers)
    “There’s a lot of differences. You can look on film – we just executed on third down. I think we met our goal on third down, we still had some plays that could be made. Like I said, we got better. There’s still room to grow, which in my mind is a really good spot to be in, that we can get better – we played well. ”

    (On what it would mean to potentially be 3-1 after Sunday’s game against Arizona)
    “Anytime you win in this league it’s big. Each time you do win, it makes the next win that much bigger. So, you might be asking me the same question next week – I hope you are, you know, for 4-1. Thats why we have the mindset of just going 1-0 that week, and focusing on that week. You can’t really think about what’s happened, you can’t really think too much about what’s ahead – you got to think about this week. There’s enough on our plate this week to think about the magnitude of things.”

    (On what stands out regarding the Cardinals defensively after not getting the chance to face them last season)
    “No, I was not playing. But, obviously studied them and was a part of the game plan process. I mean, it’s the Cardinals defense. They’re really good – they got a lot of players. Front end, it’s one of the best in the league, with (DT Calais) Campbell spearheading it up there in front – (LB Deone) Bucannon, those backers are really good too. Then obviously, a guy you’ve probably heard of, Patrick Peterson back there and the honey badger (S Tyrann Mathieu) too, they’re all over the place. We got our work cut out for us, identifying fronts and coverages – knowing where they’re lined up. Then, obviously, not just knowing – knowing how to execute and how to win. How to win certain plays, get first downs. We got our work cut out for us. It’s a big challenge.”

    (On Patrick Peterson being a player to always be aware of – identifying where he is at all times)
    “Yeah, for sure. With these guys though, you kind of have to know where they all are. I mean, they can all make plays, they can all do really, really good things. Obviously, 21 makes a lot of plays and he’s around the ball a lot, he’s definitely a guy we’re going to have our eye on. ”

    (On getting into a rhythm rather than thinking about things too much – doing what he’s seeing)
    “I think so. I think I’m getting better. That’s what I’ve got to do, that’s what I concentrate on, is getting better. I think getting out of my own way at times has really helped. I think just trusting – trusting what I’m seeing, trusting my guys. I think we’re on a good path right now and I want to continue that.”

    (On getting out of his own way)
    “It’s like I said before, thinking too much, not trusting my instincts, not letting myself play football, handcuffing myself from seeing too much or seeing too little.”

    #53922
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    Gurley, ……..defenses are keying on him, especially with a QB like Case that gives a strong perception that the Rams have a one dimensional run offense with a ROY in the backfield…..

    it was good to see the Rams remain patient with the run game even when they were down 20-10….. Gurley had 27 carries, only 10 or so in the 1st half… I thought that he was utilized well, especially in the 2nd half….

    Regarding Benny, he did convert the long 3rd and 17…it was a nice play call with the delayed handoff … that 22 yard run by Benny caught the Bucs off guard to get the 1st down that ultimately set up a 53 yarder by Zuerliner. Speaking Zuerline… he’s have a very solid year thus far… special teams was a big factor yesterday, Greg the Leg delivered and Aguayo for the Bucs did not…..

    just image if they still had Tre Mason…… Rams would be really deep at RB…

    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    STRANGERS IN THEIR OWN LAND
    Anger and Mourning on the American Right
    By Arlie Russell Hochschild
    351 pp. The New Press. $27.95.

    Arlie Hochschild’s generous but disconcerting look at the Tea Party presents a likable fellow named Lee Sherman, who once worked for a Louisiana chemical plant where his duties included illegally dumping toxic waste into the bayou.

    Sherman did the dirty work; then the company did him dirty. After 15 years on the job, he was doused with chemicals that “burned my clothes clean off me” and left him ill. But rather than pay his disability costs, his bosses accused him of absenteeism and fired him.

    Sherman became a fledgling environmentalist and got his revenge after a giant fish kill threatened the livelihood of nearby fishermen. Company officials feigned innocence, but Sherman barged into a public meeting with an incriminating sign: I’M THE ONE WHO DUMPED IT IN THE BAYOU. Fast-forward a couple of decades and Sherman, still an environmentalist, is campaigning for a Tea Party congressman who wants to gut the Environmental Protection Agency. Sherman still distrusts chemical companies, but he distrusts the federal government more, because it spends his tax money on people who “lazed around days and partied at night.”

    In “Strangers in Their Own Land,” which has been nominated for a National Book Award, Hochschild calls this the “Great Paradox” — opposition to federal help from people and places that need it — and sets off across Louisiana on an energetic, open-minded quest to understand it.

    A distinguished Berkeley sociologist, Hochschild is a woman of the left, but her mission is empathy, not polemics. She takes seriously the Tea Partiers’ complaints that they have become the “strangers” of the title — triply marginalized by flat or falling wages, rapid demographic change, and liberal culture that mocks their faith and patriotism. Her affection for her characters is palpable.

    But the resentments she finds are as toxic as the pollutants in the marsh and metastasizing throughout politics. What unites her subjects is the powerful feeling that others are “cutting in line” and that the federal government is supporting people on the dole — “taking money from the workers and giving it to the idle.” Income is flowing up, but the anger points down.

    The people who feel this are white. The usurpers they picture are blacks and immigrants. Hochschild takes care not to call anyone racist but concludes that “race is an essential part of this story.” When she asks a small-town mayor to describe his politics, his first two issues — or is it one in his mind? — are welfare and race: “I don’t like the government paying unwed mothers to have a lot of kids, and I don’t go for affirmative action.”

    In welfare politics, this is déjà vu all over again. It’s been two decades since Bill Clinton signed a tough welfare law aimed in part to end the politics of blame. “Ending welfare as we know it” would recast the needy as workers, he said, and build support for a new safety net. The rolls of the main federal cash program have fallen by 80 percent from their 1990s highs — in Louisiana, by 95 percent. But reverse class anger is more potent than ever.

    Liberals have long wondered why ­working-class voters support policies that (the liberals think) hurt the working class. Why would victims of pollution side with the polluters?

    Theories abound. Thomas Frank accuses the G.O.P. of luring voters with social issues but delivering tax cuts for the rich. Others point to the political machines built by ultra-wealthy donors like Charles and David Koch. Still others emphasize the influence of conservative media like Fox News.

    Hochschild sees these as partial explanations but wants a fuller understanding of “emotion in politics” — she wants to know how Tea Partiers feel, on the theory that the movement serves their “emotional self-interest” by providing “a giddy release” from years of frustration.

    Six characters dominate the book, including Harold Areno, who lives on a swamp so polluted even the rugged cypress trees are dead. He and his wife have had cancer. Yet Areno supports politicians hostile to environmental regulation because he cares more about banning abortion. “We vote for candidates that put the Bible where it belongs,” he said.

    Mike Schaff lost his neighborhood to the Bayou Corne sinkhole, which started to swallow 37 acres in 2012 after a lightly regulated drilling company punctured an underground salt dome. But he remains a “free market man,” because “Big Government” threatens “community.”

    Many Tea Party adherents warn that more regulation will cost them jobs. (A small-town mayor says the pungent chemical plant “smells like rice and ­gravy.”) But Hochschild detects other passions and assembles what she calls the “deep story” — a “feels as if” story, beyond facts or judgment, that presents her subjects’ worldview.

    It goes like this:

    “You are patiently standing in a long line” for something you call the American dream. You are white, Christian, of modest means, and getting along in years. You are male. There are people of color behind you, and “in principle you wish them well.” But you’ve waited long, worked hard, “and the line is barely moving.”

    Then “Look! You see people cutting in line ahead of you!” Who are these interlopers? “Some are black,” others “immigrants, refugees.” They get affirmative action, sympathy and welfare — “checks for the listless and idle.” The government wants you to feel sorry for them.

    And who runs the government? “The biracial son of a low-income single mother,” and he’s cheering on the line cutters. “The president and his wife are line cutters themselves.” The liberal media mocks you as racist or homophobic. Everywhere you look, “you feel betrayed.”

    Hochschild runs the myth past her Tea Party friends.

    “You’ve read my mind,” Lee Sherman said.

    “I live your analogy,” Mike Schaff said.

    Harold Areno’s niece agrees, and says she has seen people drive their children to Head Start in Lexuses. “If people refuse to work, we should let them starve,” she said.

    Actually, anger this raw may depart from the 1990s, when welfare critics often framed their attacks as efforts to help the poor by fighting dependency. The resentments Hochschild presents are unadorned, and they have mutated into a broader suspicion of almost everything the federal government does. “The government has gone rogue, corrupt, malicious and ugly,” one Tea Partier complains. “It can’t help anybody.”

    Did welfare really “end”? Conservatives say no. Cash aid plummeted, but food stamp usage soared to new highs and the Medicaid rolls expanded. There’s room for debate, but the grievances Hochschild presents feel immune to policy solutions. As long as larger forces are squeezing whites of modest means, it’s going to “feel as if” people are cutting in line. In Lexuses.

    None of Hochschild’s characters appear to have been directly hurt by competition from people of color. Their economic problems lie elsewhere, she argues, in unchecked corporate power and technological transformation. Still there’s no denying that demographic and cultural change have robbed white men of the status they once enjoyed. Hochschild doesn’t buy the racial finger-pointing, but she can see their pain.

    Whatever racial or class resentments she finds, Hochschild makes clear that she likes the people she meets. They aren’t just soldiers in a class war but victims of one, too. She mourns their economic losses, praises their warmth and hospitality, and admires their “grit and resilience.” While her hopes of finding common political ground seem overly optimistic, this is a smart, respectful and compelling book.

    Jason DeParle, a reporter for The New York Times and an Emerson Fellow at New America, is writing a book about immigration.

    A version of this review appears in print on September 25, 2016, on page BR16 of the Sunday Book Review with the headline: Feeling Their Pain. Today’s Paper|Subs

    • This topic was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    • This topic was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    #53128
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams claim to have seen good things on defense Monday, but it’s time for that unit to fulfill its reputation

    http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160916/los-angeles-rams-claim-to-have-seen-good-things-on-defense-monday-but-its-time-for-that-unit-to-fulfill-its-reputation

    By THOUSAND OAKS >> The Rams will have a great defense someday.

    That, of course, can be a promise without end.

    Greg Norman was going to win the Masters someday. Healthy bacon was going to come along someday. Heck, pro football was coming back someday. The Rams fixed that, but they have brought it back to a notably impatient place.

    The defense was one thing we knew about this unfamiliar team with the familiar name that returned to our lives Jan. 12. If nothing else, the Rams could stop you. They had four first-round picks on defense and, in some eyes, the best player in the NFL in Aaron Donald.

    During those years, they also had to carry around the Rams’ offense like a box of anchors.

    Then came Monday night: San Francisco 28, L.A. 0.

    “We played very strong in that ballgame,” said defensive coordinator Gregg Williams Friday, indicating that the strain of keeping that promise might be getting to him.

    But he elaborated.

    “We have to do a better job in the red zone,” he said. “That’s something we’ve always done well in the past. We extended some of their drives with penalties. And we got our hands on three balls that legitimately hit us in the hands and should have been interceptions, and two of them would have gone for touchdowns. Our guys know that and they’ll come back. And I was very pleased with the way they responded at halftime.”

    The Rams were second in the league last year in preventing red zone touchdowns, at 41.3 percent, and fourth in 2014.

    “The worst part was giving 28 points, and it doesn’t matter how the offense did if you are going to give up points,” linebacker Alec Ogletree said. “We had some missed reads in the red zone, some missed tackles. Things happened really fast.”

    San Francisco scored four touchdowns in four red zone trips and the Rams lost a net 92 yards in penalties. The 49ers had three touchdown drives that took 10, 10 and 11 plays. Etc.

    “We had a couple of short fields,” Williams said. “We’re usually good on sudden change, making people kick field goals. One of those drives we had a second-and-15 and we had pass interference, and another time we had second-and-13 and the guy (Blaine Gabbert) threw it right in there. … What I liked was that before I could say anything, the guys were coming up to me and they were bringing it up. That’s when you know things are going well, when they take ownership.

    “They extended some plays with their quarterbacks, and that’s when you don’t want to be reading my lips on the sideline. But otherwise we held their running game down pretty well.”

    Still, the Rams are holding onto someday a little too long.

    In 2015 the Rams ranked 12th in the 32-team NFL in yards allowed per play. They were sixth on third-down defense, seventh in passing TDs allowed, 13th in touchdowns allowed. The year before they were 24th in yards-per-play defense, and 18th the year before that.

    That is good but not dominant, and their ambition is dominance. A glimpse came in Week 16 last year, when William Hayes sacked Russell Wilson three times (for 24 1/2 yards) and the Rams won in Seattle, 23-17. Three of Seattle’s 10 losses in 2014-15 have come to the Rams, and one of them came with Nick Foles posting a quarterback rating of 115.8.

    Now Wilson drags a bad ankle into the Coliseum Sunday.

    “We’re preparing as if he’s going to be 100 percent,” Williams said. “We know how tough he is. He’s one of the few players who could come over and play defense. He does things on instinct, does things you can’t coach. He’s the best quarterback there is when it comes to extending plays.”

    The Rams allowed Wilson to run 15 times for 51 yards in those two games, with one gain of 20. They can live with that, provided they can find a way to squeeze Todd Gurley through Seattle’s front seven. “We might have to throw it deep to do that,” coach Jeff Fisher said, which invites its own problems.

    “We’ve been preaching the same thing for three years,” Ogletree said. “as far as becoming the best defense. We’re looking forward to this year and spreading our reputation around the league. We’re not looking to wait until next year to do that, because things change. What better time than now?”

    Sure beats someday.

    #53047
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams HC Fisher – September 15, 2016

    (Opening remarks)

    “A good day at practice, we got some guys back. We’re really excited. We have to finish up tomorrow strong and we’ll fine tune things on Saturday and then head down to the hotel and give it a shot. They’re a good football team, but we’ve had success against them and we have great respect for them, like I said. I’m pleased with where we are right now.”

    (On if he has decided if QB Jared Goff will be active on Sunday)

    “I haven’t decided yet, no. We’ll probably let you know tomorrow or Saturday or Sunday.”

    (On if this game is as big of a Week 2 game as he can remember)

    “Every week is big and there’s storylines behind everything. This is special because this is the first one that counts at the Coliseum, the first one that counts here at home. It’s special and we couldn’t think of a better opponent to open against. All the stuff with (Seahawks Head Coach) Pete (Carroll) coming back to the Coliseum for the first time, the little rivalry that we’ve established here over the last couple of years, I think it’s going to be special.”

    (On if the injuries to WR Nelson Spruce and WR Pharoh Cooper handcuff the offense)

    “You have to play through injures, that’s your philosophy. Who knows what would happen had they both been available – we don’t know. But we’ll find out when they come back. Other guys have to step up.”

    (On if Spruce and Cooper are close to playing)

    “They’re getting closer, yeah. They both did not practice today.”

    (On DT Michael Brockers’ contract extension and keeping the defensive line together)

    “Yeah, something about ‘Brock’ – I’m really excited about that. I appreciate (Owner/Chairman) Stan (Kroenke) and his willingness to allow us to go ahead and do that. We’ve been talking for quite some time about it. It’s important to keep our playmakers and people that we’ve drafted. We got a good deal for both sides and Michael is happy about it and so are we.”

    (On what Brockers brings to the defense)

    “He’s a big man inside and you have to have that nowadays for two reasons – one, for your ability to stop the inside run and two, to put pressure on the quarterback and collapse the pocket. He creates opportunities for everybody else and every so often he makes a big play himself. He’s been consistent week-in, week-out, he’s changed his body since his arrival, overcame some early career injuries and has just been one of those guys you can count on.”

    (On QB Case Keenum saying he needs trust himself more and if there is anything, going into the second game, that RB Todd Gurley needs to adjust)

    “No, I think we just need to be in a position where we can keep feeding him. The two are tied together – Case makes a good decision, converts a third down, then we get another opportunity to hand the ball off to Todd. It’s all tied together. Nothing really goes right when you struggle offensively on third down, you just don’t get the plays, you don’t get the shots. It just kind of debilitates your entire offense. We’d like to stay out of third downs – 15 last week was way too many – have anywhere (from) 10-to-12 max, that means you’re making chunks on first and second down and you’re moving the football.”

    (On what it means to the organization to be the team that comes back to the Los Angeles market)

    “It means a lot. Since the discussion started, all those things fall into place. It means a lot to us. Yeah, we’ve had a generation that’s been without it here. We want to, from a marketing standpoint and from a football standpoint, from a winning standpoint, attract their attention and get them behind us because that’s what storied franchises are all about and we expect this to last for a long time.”

    (On if he has any memories of the Rams wearing their royal blue and yellow throwback uniforms that they will be wearing on Sunday)

    “Well I have one in particular, but that didn’t work out very well for me (laughs). The players love them, they love the colors, they love the colors. I don’t know what our record is – you look at it – but they like playing in those uniforms. I think it’s a great way to open up.”

    (On how he thought T.J. McDonald responded after what he went through in the summer)

    “I’m really proud of T.J., what he overcame and the commitment that he made to conditioning prior to camp and the camp that he had and then the way he played in the opener. I’m really proud of him. He’s back. He’s back and he’s much better than he was.”

    (On if he was worried about McDonald at any point during the summer)

    “No, we were concerned with respect to the issues he was working through. But we stood behind him the whole time knowing that he would come back.”

    (On if the team can build off the success it has had against the Seahawks knowing that both teams are different this year)

    “No, as Pete told you guys yesterday, the past is the past. We’re starting over again. I can’t stand up in front of this team and say ‘Hey, we beat them twice last year.’ We did, but last year has no bearing on what we’re going to do this Sunday. We have to find a way to do it again.”

    (On the rumors of him signing a contract extension)

    “I never talk about my personal stuff or my extensions or non-extensions or anything. That’s between me and the organization.”

    (On how their preparation changes with Seahawks QB Russell Wilson having a high ankle sprain)

    “We’re preparing for a 100 percent healthy Russell. You have to do that or you sell yourself short. I thought their offensive staff, when he was injured, did a tremendous job adjusting the play-calling to allow him to find a way to win that game without using his legs. I thought they did a great job. We have to approach this, from a player standpoint and assume that he’s going to be 100 percent.”

    (On if coaches or uses the emotion in big games like on Sunday and if it’s realistic to say the team can channel the emotion in a positive way)

    “I think you have to be careful with emotions, especially as they relate to the start of games because you can lose your composure, you can lose track of your focus – those kind of things. Again, it was like last week (when) we talked about the only thing better than the season opener is a playoff game. The season opener itself is an emotional issue that players deal with. So you calm them down, then you add the Monday night thing, and you have to calm them down. Because we calmed them down, it wasn’t directly related to the way we played, but I think it’s important that you go out and use the crowd, use the emotion, but you have to use it wisely. I think that’s going to be a topic of discussion as we move through the weekend. The players, the defense has to understand that it’s going to be really difficult to communicate because it’s going to be extremely loud and that’s a good thing for us. Seattle has learned how to win at home with that, we have to learn how to win at home an extremely loud crowd.”

    ***

    Rams RB Todd Gurley – September 15, 2016

    (On if having a short week is better in regards to the team’s preparation for the next game)

    “Not really. We’re going to get a win this week, for sure. Not really, obviously, you want to have that extra day to prepare, but I just feel like after a loss like that, you’re just so ready to get back at it. We’re definitely ready to play Sunday.”

    (On the biggest takeaway from last week’s loss, that he can carry into this week)

    “Obviously, it can’t get much worse than zero points, so, no going back. It was a lot of good things, but obviously everybody has to be on the same page. Whether it’s me missing a blitz, or somebody coming through free. We just all have to be on the same page, do what the coaches tell us, and go out there and execute.”

    (On if there’s anything he needs to do different this weekend that he didn’t do last game)

    “Just stay with it, be patient. I felt like some of the runs got busted up a little early. I feel like I was trying to do too much, or wasn’t patient enough in my reads. I just got to stick to the game plan, and just know that everything is going to be fine, and we’re going to break one.”

    (On if he feels Seattle’s defense is game planned around stopping him)

    “They run a pretty simple defense. They’re going to run what they run, and they’re going to try and stop you. They’re going to have (S Kam) Chancellor down in the box. You have to respect a great player like himself. Just stick to my reads, stick to the game plan, know my assignments, and just go from there.”

    (On if he notices any changes in Seattle’s defense this year in comparison to last season)

    “Yeah definitely, definitely have a few more looks this year. But like I said, from the previous film of us playing them the past couple of years, they play what they play, and they’re just going to try to stop you.”

    (On his thought regarding the anticipation leading up to the home opener)

    “Obviously, we’re playing at the Coliseum; great tradition. I kind of treat it like college again; just glad that we’re back. A lot of people are excited for us to be back. There’s over millions of people in the city, so I’m pretty sure somebody wants to come watch football. Like I said, it’s just going to feel like college; that game day atmosphere, the love, football is back in L.A. Hopefully we can just get this win for the city.”

    (On if seeing himself on billboards around the city is a surreal moment for him)

    “Yeah, it’s still mind blowing that we’re here, but we can’t let that be our focus. Just try to execute, stay to the game plan, stay focused on football, and just try to go out there and win. Obviously, being in the media capital of the world, you see stuff like that. It’s definitely a good look for us, and for the Rams.”

    (On what it means for him to represent the new generation of L.A. fans who never got a taste of the Rams)

    “It’s cool man. It’s a blessing just to be in this league. Whether you’re on the Rams or not, I feel like NFL players appreciate that. For fans that buy our jerseys, and come support us, we’re just excited to be here, play in this league, and play for this team, and this city.”

    #52659
    sdram
    Participant

    I honestly believe SK is not that superficial. The LA press maybe, but not SK.

    I think Stan and staff expect Fisher will win. And, I guess I don’t see that as superficial at all. How much is enough seems to be the unknown to me. Fisher has had four years of building from scratch with extenuating circumstances certainly – roster was weak, injuries, Bradford’s contract and health, and the move back to LA. So how long will Stan be patient? It’s been four years already – longer than anybody I can think of in recent history.

    Fisher has done some great things building a depleted roster. He seems pragmatic and willing to change with the times. I kind of like his style. He’s an LA guy at heart like me. But head coaches get paid to win IMO, so we’ll see.

    #52545
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams QB Jared Goff must learn to be a backup

    Vincent Bonsignore

    http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160909/vincent-bonsignore-rams-qb-jared-goff-must-learn-to-be-a-backup

    THOUSAND OAKS >> The starting point is nowhere near were Jared Goff originally imagined. In that respect, he’s no different than anyone else. The Rams included.

    If anyone says they would have predicted or anticipated or been OK with the first overall pick starting his NFL career at the back of the Rams quarterback line, they’re either lying or not in the loop.

    Goff was generally regarded as the most National Football League quarterback available in last April’s draft, and that wasn’t an opinion exclusive to the Rams.

    Off that distinction, he separated himself from the rest of the quarterback group and the Rams built their justification to trade six picks to the Tennessee Titans to move from the 15th pick to the first pick overall to take Goff over North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz.

    So to say there isn’t even a hint of disappointment that Goff didn’t distinguish himself as the second-string quarterback, let alone the starter, would be disingenuous.

    “My whole life, I’ve been the starter,” Goff said.

    Now he’s third string. And that takes some getting used to.

    For everyone.

    Instead of returning home to the Bay Area the starting quarterback of the Los Angeles Rams, he’ll be standing on the sideline in street clothes.

    Instead of preparing for the season opener against the San Francisco 49ers, he’s focused on a long-range plan that will eventually lift him from the raw prospect he looked like during training camp to the player everyone assumed he’d rapidly be upon the Rams taking him with the first overall pick.

    It’s about having faith in the process rather than trusting this week’s game plan.

    “And there is a process,” Goff said. “You’re just going to trust the process, and know that it’s all going to work out.”

    He said this with conviction in his voice. But more and more the conversation about Goff is based on hope rather than certainty.

    Based on how he performed during training camp and the preseason, it’s all we really have.

    Yes, the Rams preached patience with Goff going all the way back to their pre-draft evaluation of him. And in talking to the former Cal Golden Bear, Rams coach Jeff Fisher was up front that getting him on the field could be swift or a prolonged ordeal.

    “He talked about if (prolonged) was the case, there will be no rushing,” Goff said. “Whenever it’s time, it’s time. If it needs to happen early, it happens early. If it needs to happen a little bit later, it happens later. I’m just going to continue to trust him and to trust the process, and know that they have a really well thought-out plan in place, and I’m still a part of it.”

    But completion of that plan seems so much further away than anyone could have imagined.

    And that’s disappointing considering the home run swing the Rams took to acquire Goff.

    It was move made for reasons both obvious and subtle.

    No question they wanted to make a bold first step back into the Los Angeles market, and it doesn’t get much grander than trading for the first overall pick and grabbing a future face of the franchise at the most important position on the field.

    Just as importantly, in talking to Rams folks, there is a sincere belief they are inches away from taking that next step in the growth process rather than feet. Closing that gap was predicated primarily on better quarterback play.

    With one mighty swing of the bat, they felt they achieved both objectives.

    Nothing like making a bold move to stir up the second-biggest market in the country.

    And nothing like adding a dynamic new quarterback to carry the team to the next level.

    That didn’t happen, obviously.

    Goff performed through training camp and preseason like a prospect still in need of major seasoning. Without the benefit of the minor leagues for more fine tuning, he’ll toil away behind the scenes trying to get up to speed.

    To the untrained eye, Goff looks at least a year away from making a significant contribution. That goes for his level of play to his physical stature. He’s every bit the 6-foot-5 he’s listed. But 205 pounds never looked skinnier stretched over his lanky frame.

    Meanwhile, starter Case Keenum and second-year man Sean Mannion significantly out-played Goff. So when the Rams drew up their depth chart for Monday night’s season opener, there was no justification to elevate Goff over the two veterans.

    Discouraging.

    But prudent.

    And for the kid for whom so much was expected, about as humbling as you can imagine.

    His name was called first overall among 253 players drafted last April.

    But no telling when his named will be called upon.

    Nobody had that in the script.

    “I’m just going to be patient, wait until my number is called, and continue to get ready out on the field, and continue to practice as hard as I can,” Goff said. “When my number is called, be ready.”

    Goff’s NFL future pretty much depends on it.

    His ability to process and compartmentalize what can only be deemed a set back and learn and grow and emerge better for it are the keys to everything.

    And he’ll have to do it as much mentally as he does physically.

    With practice time cut down in the NFL over the years and reps at a premium for the starter and back up, third-string quarterbacks get precious few chances to get snaps during the course of the week. So Goff will have to rely on his eyes and ears watching Keenum and Mannion almost as much as his legs and arm.

    “Just continue to learn and take mental reps,” he said. “I’ve never done it before, so I am learning how to do that as well. Just trying to try to learn from what they do well, and then learn from their mistakes. Case has been in the league for a long time now. I just pick his brain and ask him as much as I can, and get to know as much as I can before my number is called, so I can be ready.”

    When that time comes is anyone’s guess.

    #52527
    — X —
    Participant

    It would help if Fisher never gave mixed signals about what his intentions were with Goff. Early in the process he said the goal was to start him Monday night. Then it was “We’re gonna be patient with him.” Like others, I could give a rip about what the media says or perceives the situation to be. And there are some really *out there* theories about Goff being inactive.

    When he’s ready, he’s ready. Fisher didn’t really give him the opportunities afforded a QB who was expected to contribute right away, so it’s really no surprise that he isn’t ready yet. That said, it was kind of weird of Fisher to say that he wants Goff to kind of ‘absorb’ what NFL football is about on Monday. Take it all in, get a feel for the environment and whatnot. That’s just weird. It’s like showing a kid a documentary about Disneyland before taking him to Disneyland. The whole time the kid’s like, “Yeah, I assume it’s going to be exciting and a little scary, so this documentary is kind of useless — and you’re stupid.”

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Police-involved injuries of civilians rise nearly 50%, Harvard researchers say
    Study looked at emergency visits over 14-year period and also found black men were more likely to be injured by police and security guards than white men

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/09/police-involved-injuries-civilian-harvard-study

    The rate of serious injuries caused by police and private security increased nearly 50% from 2001 to 2014, according to a new study from Harvard public health researchers that looked at emergency room visits.

    An article published this week reviewed hospital emergency room data to analyze non-fatal injuries following “legal intervention” – defined in this study as a wound inflicted by police officers or private security guards. In the 14-year period examined, the rate of these injuries per 100,000 people increased by 47.4%. The analysis is one of few that can provide a longitudinal study of police use of force over time, according to lead author Justin Feldman.

    The article also concluded that black civilians, and particularly black men, are significantly more likely to be injured by police than their white counterparts, a trend carried over in numerous analyses of police killings and fatal shootings. Black people were injured and sought treatment at a rate 4.9 times higher than whites, according to the research.

    In the 14-year period studied, the majority of injuries – 64% – were categorized as “struck by/against”, and stemmed from a physical interaction with officers. Non-fatal firearm injuries caused just 1% of the estimated 683,033 injuries.

    Feldman, a doctoral candidate at Harvard, and his co-authors are part of a body of public health researchers increasingly analyzing injuries and deaths caused by police as a public health issue.

    The Harvard researchers looked at trips to emergency rooms by persons aged 15 to 34, who accounted for the majority of legal intervention injuries during the time period studied.

    Epidemiologist Nancy Krieger, one of the article’s co-authors, said the study analyzes a new source of data and adds to the knowledge about non-lethal police violence, which can be harder to track.

    Of the steady increase in the rate of hospital admissions following force by officers, Krieger said because there is little historical data on police force, it’s “hard to know is that smaller or bigger an increase than one would expect”.

    “I think the point is not necessarily how much it’s increased but the fact that it looks like the trend is going up,” Krieger said. “This is not the kind of thing that you want to see going up.”

    The federal government does not track killings by police, although the Department of Justice aims to do so in a new pilot program that began last year. There is no complete set of data to indicate how police use of force has changed in recent history.

    The research, published in the Journal of Urban Health, uses data from a frequently overlooked source of criminal justice knowledge: a survey initially meant to track injuries caused by consumer products. The US consumer product safety commission has long tracked data on patients with injuries related to products, and in 2000 began tracking a wider array of injury data from a representative sample of 66 hospitals across the country.

    Feldman said when he began studying police use of force, he was looking for reliable sources.

    “In terms of nationally representative data, this is the one,” he said, explaining that because this data is collected specifically for research purposes, it’s more reliable that data that comes from hospital records.

    The article’s conclusions were limited because race data was missing for many patients, so the authors were unable to draw reliable conclusions on how likely non-black people of color were to suffer non-fatal injury compared to whites. In addition, Feldman explained, differences in how frequently racial groups seek medical treatment could affect the data.

    Because the data doesn’t differentiate injuries from sworn police officers and private security guards, the group behind the increase is unknown. Feldman said he believes that police officers are responsible for the majority of these legal intervention injuries and for the increase, but can’t know for sure because so little is known about when security guards use force on the job.

    Mahesh Nalla, a professor at the school of criminal justice at Michigan State University, said there was no data he knew of tracking lethal or non-lethal force used by security guards.

    “I’m not familiar with any data that spells out the nonfatal injuries caused by security guards,” he said.

    #52483
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher – September 8, 2016

    (Opening Remarks):
    “Good first day. Actually, because of the schedule and the Monday night (game day), we got two solid days in prior to today, which is officially the first gameplan day. You’re typically on a three-day week from a gameplan standpoint. Today’s Thursday, we kind of look at it as a Wednesday. Got a good session tomorrow, start backing down a little bit, Saturday, then travel Sunday. But we’re in good shape health-wise, and guys were eager this morning. We’re starting to settle down in the building and all their focus is on our opponent—that’s a week-to-week deal. There weren’t any speeches about what we’re going to do this year or anything—it was let’s get to the practice, lets get to the walk-thru, lets get to the first meeting, and then just take one thing at a time. If you do that right, then it gives you a chance to win.

    (On whether emotions are heighted because it’s the first game of the 2016 season)
    “No, no they’re focused on their work. You have to kind of redirect the younger players — we had all of those players who haven’t played in a regular season NFL game stand up in the meeting room today and there were quite a few of them. You have to explain to them how you get there, and you get there just one day at a time as you push through the week.”

    (On preparing for the 49ers changes since their last meeting in the final game of the 2015 season)
    “We’re watching a lot of stuff right, now, as I imagine they are as well. But that’s part of the intrigue of the first game — people hold things back through camp, through preseason and they have a lot of things that they like that they put in the first game. So yeah, we’re looking at Cleveland’s defense and Philly’s (Philadelphia) offense — that’s what the coaches are here for — to turn over every stone.”

    (On expectations of QB Case Keenum)
    “We knew (QB) Case (Keenum), we saw what he can do, we saw how he finished the year (2015), we traded for Case — people forget that because of his ability. He’s done a great job this offseason, Preseason games, not exhibition games, preseason games — he’s ready to go.”

    (On QB Case Keenum’s emotions going into Week 1 of the 2016 season—whether he has “any jitters” for his first regular season start in the NFL)
    “No, not at all his personality is such that, no, he’s fine. He’s going to be different Monday night than he was in Seattle, or when he had his first start with us — no different”

    (On QB Case Keenum’s growth since the end of the 2015 season)
    “Every week seeing just more and more command of the offense, which is comforting. He’s going to get up there and make the right decision. The position itself is hard to play, but he’s going to give us a chance with checking in and out of run stuff, changing protections, getting the ball down the field, making plays, extending plays with his legs.”

    (On linebacker depth chart)
    “We like the young guys, the young guys are coming on, both of them. It’s just a matter of time before they’ll see live defensive snaps. In the meantime, as you know, we face a lot of three wide receiver offenses, so it’s two linebackers and five DBs or six DBs. Teams aren’t normally starting with that group. What teams like to do us, is spread us out and get rid of the football. But we’re happy with both the young guys, both (LB) Josh (Forrest) and (LB) Cory (Littleton).

    (On the evolution of offensive coordinator Rob Boras)
    “Put him in a really difficult position last year, because he hadn’t called plays. But we all thought he did a really great job. He’s had that experience, not only last year, but throughout the offseason program, at camp and preseason games. We put the coaches in stressful situations on purpose on the practice field, and he’s handles them very well.”

    (On the effect of the transition from St. Louis to Los Angeles and looking back at the 2015 season opener versus 2016)
    “A year ago we were getting ready to play the Seahawks and we had success in that game. We had a productive preseason and we were able to win that game. It’s just a matter of communicating to your players and to the staff for that matter, what the goals are, and where you need to focus your attention. That’s what they’ve done. I had a conversation with one of the assistants, ‘can you imagine what we’ve gone through since we had the first meeting in Manhattan Beach with the players in March and how many times we’ve moved and how many places we’ve gone’, and they’ve just done a great job with it – it’s nice to finally be settled.”

    (On conversations with the rookies regarding their first NFL game)
    “Those conversations take place throughout the week with them, probably settle them down a little bit. Monday afternoon, in the meetings before kickoff. But they’re going to be excited, and, to me that’s the biggest challenge when you play in the ‘spotlight,’ if you will, of Monday Night Football, to keep everybody calm and relaxed and keep their pose – they adjust real quickly.”

    (On the team’s response to the gameplan following the preseason camp)
    “They’ve done a great job, I mean we’ve practiced these things, like everybody else has. Like you’ll see tonight (Broncos vs. Panthers), everybody practices things they just don’t use them in the regular season. Now it’s just a matter of carrying over what we’ve practiced in to the game. On a weekly basis there’s new concepts that go in as you gameplan. This is not an unusual process for us to put things in for the first time.”

    (On QB Jared Goff’s role moving forward)
    “One of the challenges for the younger players this week, as I told all of them this morning, is to prepare yourself to play without getting (practice) reps. They all come in here from college programs where they got all the reps and now they’ve found themselves in the positions, where they don’t get reps. It’s harder to backup than it is to start. That’s the nature of the National Football League. But Jared has good feel for where we’re at. He wants to play, and I want him to play, but we’re not there yet.”

    (On the history of the San Francisco 49ers, Los Angeles Rams rivalry and what it means to him)
    “I’ve been on both sides of it. 1991, here (Los Angeles) playing the 49ers, they were than we were at that time. The following year I was on the other side (49ers) playing the Rams, so I’ve seen both sides of it. As I mentioned to them, (49ers) earlier today on the conference call, the 49ers and the Rams are chasing the Cardinals and the Seahawks right now. It’s a great rivalry. We’ll rekindle it from our fans standpoint, but until we get to that point, which we hope personally that it’s very soon. We have some work to do. But both fanbases, I think the older fanbases, understand the rich tradition and the history with respect to both organizations.”

    ***

    Rams QB Case Keenum– September 8, 2016

    (On his first career Week 1 start)

    “It’s exciting, it’s Monday Night Football. It’s a divisional opponent. First time for it to be my show starting out and not just taking over like, ‘Oh crap, send out Case now.’ It’s been something we’ve been prepared for for a long time. I’m excited, I really am. The first time putting on a jersey with ‘Los Angeles’ on the front of it. I get to represent our city and our team. It’s going to be great. It’s going to be a lot of fun.”

    (On what the difference is being the starter throughout the entire offseason)

    “There’s a lot of differences. When I go to talk to receivers now it’s like ‘Hey, this is how we should do this.
    This is how I want it, how do you want it?’ Instead of, ‘Let me go ask somebody else and we’ll see how they want it.’ So it’s good. I think communication is good, chemistry is good. We had a good day at practice today, and I’m going to go watch it and look forward to another day tomorrow.”

    (On the challenges they face preparing for the 49ers considering their new coaching staff)

    “It is different. It’s a different team than the two games we played against them last year. A lot of the same players, but different schemes. So, that does make it a little bit of a challenge – to go back and maybe watch a different coordinators, defense. You don’t look at personnel, but you maybe look at schemes and what they’re trying to do defensively. It’s like any first game, they can throw anything at you. We’re going to trust on our rules and preparation and go out and play.”

    (On if he has to do anything to calm his nerves and not get too excited prior to this game)

    “I’m going to get excited no matter what. That’s who I am. Honestly, the first time I get hit is a good time to (say) ‘Okay, here we go.’ I’m not planning on getting hit, and my big guys are not planning on me getting hit (laughs). Maybe I’ll just let them slap me or something.”

    (On if he understands the magnitude of rekindling the San Francisco-Los Angeles rivalry)

    “I don’t know if I do. I’m new to the area. I don’t have the, I don’t know what you call it, the ‘southern state’ pride that a lot of people have. I think I’ll grow into it and learn. For me, I want to represent the city. The other day, we went up and looked at the Hollywood sign, that’s the first time I’ve been there. I haven’t done a lot of stuff around the city. I have to admit, I haven’t been to Roscoe’s yet and had chicken and waffles. I know, it’s terrible of me. I’m going to have to do that. I’m going to have to grow into being a Los Angelino – I had to learn that, too. It’s been fun.”

    (On if he has been to Tito’s Tacos or Tommy’s restaurants yet)

    “I haven’t. I’ve stayed out here and been in Irvine. We’ve been working a little bit.”

    (On if they’ll rely heavily on the run against San Francisco considering the 49ers run defense last season)

    “(RB) Todd (Gurley) is obviously a special weapon to have. I know it’s a different day, different team than last year. They do a great job, they’ve got a great front – they’ve got some new guys up there and some guys that are veteran guys, (49ers LB NaVorro) Bowman, (49ers LB Ahmad) Brooks that are game-wreckers, that we call them, and we’ve got to know where they’re at at all times.”

    (On if there’s been any discussion on the National Anthem prior to this game)

    “No, we haven’t talked about that at all.”

    (On what they key was for him to deal with all the questions he receives about QB Jared Goff)

    “I’m still batting 1.000 – every interview I’ve ever done, somebody has asked. So congratulations to you (laughs). It is what it is. I compartmentalize it, the interviews and stuff, people are going to ask what they want to ask. He’s the first pick of the draft, obviously some attention there. I’m just coming out and doing my job and my job is to be the quarterback of this team and get the ball in the right people’s hands and convert on third downs and score points. That’s my job. I’m going to come in every day and work on doing that.”

    (On if he’s excited about having the potential to change the Rams’ offense overall by elevating play at the quarterback position)

    “I think if you look at any team and, and as the quarterback goes, the team goes. That’s why I love playing quarterback. I love having the ball in my hands. I’ve prided myself in working hard and knowing that I’ve put everything I can into it. If it doesn’t work out, it’s something I did, and I can go back and work on it, fix it and do it better next time. That’s my mindset. That’s why I play quarterback, I love the ball in my hands.”

    ***

    Rams QB Jared Goff – September 8, 2016

    (On his thoughts about not being active this week against San Francisco)

    “It’s something that we talked about. There’s a multitude of reasons for it. I don’t know if it’s for one thing in particular, but it’s just what they decided to do this week. I’m just going to be patient, wait until my number is called, and continue to get ready out on the field, and continue to practice as hard as I can. When my number is called, be ready.”

    (On how difficult it is to know he won’t be taking reps with the starters)

    “I’ve never done that, yeah. So, it is different. My whole life, I’ve been the starter. So I’m used to taking those reps. But at the same time, through OTAs and through training camp, I’ve learned to take mental reps and watch (QB) Case (Keenum) and (QB) Sean (Mannion), and see what they do well, and try to replicate that.”

    (On how he gets positive reps without starting)

    “Just continue to learn and take mental reps. I’ve never done it before, so I am learning how to do that as well. Just trying to try to learn from what they do well, and then learn from their mistakes. Case has been in the league form for a long time now. I just pick his brain and ask him as much as I can, and get to know as much as I can before my number is called, so I can be ready.”

    (On how he maintains a positive attitude)

    “I know there’s plan in place, and I know this is all a part of it. And there’s a process. You just going to trust the process, and know that it’s all going to work out. Just continue to work hard and just do the best I can every day, and continue to learn. Like I said, just be ready when my number is called, is the best thing I can do.”

    (On if Jeff Fisher has mention that sitting out, not starting, and learning is the best way to develop as a quarterback; similar to what he did with QB Steve McNair in Tennessee)

    “I don’t know, not particularly. I have talked to him, back in April when we went on my visit. I kind of had an idea that they were going to take me. He talked about if that was the case, there will be no rushing. Whenever it’s time, it’s time. If it needs to happen early, it happens early. If it needs to happen a little bit later, it happens later. I’m just going to continue to him and to trust the process, and know that they have a really well thought-out plan in place, and I’m still a part of it.”

    (On if he can get reps after practice if he’s no getting enough during practice)

    “Oh yeah, you can always stay after and grab some receivers to throw or continue to get mental reps during practice.”

    (On what he can get from scout team reps)

    “There’s a lot of stuff that we’ll do in scout team that is similar to stuff we run. We get out there and go, ‘Okay, this is like this,’ and that way, you can get reps as well. It’s been a good experience.”

    (On if it was any disappointing to know he’s not going to dress for a game in his hometown)

    “I’ll play in San Francisco more than once, so no, I’ll be okay.”

    (On if he’s been in contact with Eagles QB Carson Wentz at all)

    “No, I haven’t. We have the same agent, so we talked about it and I’m excited for him, excited to see what he can do.”

    #52449
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    The NFL Has an Age Problem

    https://theringer.com/the-nfl-has-an-age-problem-7068825845e4#.dz6mp4chf

    And you’re seeing the effects on the field. The players are younger than ever, the football is worse than ever, and the causes aren’t going away.

    If you’re worried about the level of play in the NFL, you have an unlikely ally: coaches and executives. “Everything from defensive linemen not knowing where their eyes should be looking, not knowing where blocks are coming from,” said Baltimore Ravens head coach John Harbaugh.

    “Defensive backs not recognizing routes, not knowing how to burst, stop, start, and change direction so they don’t tear their ACLs. Offensive linemen not knowing where blitzers are coming from. Just not a lot of technique anywhere.”

    It’s rare for NFL coaches and executives to agree en masse on anything, but these days, nearly all of them seem to be fretting about a new and game-changing trend: The NFL is getting dangerously young due to changes at both ends of the age spectrum, with record numbers of less experienced rookies entering the league and veterans getting the boot.

    “This is a real serious concern,” Harbaugh said. “Not just for the quality of the game, but for the well-being of these young guys coming into the NFL.”

    Football Outsiders tracks a statistic called “Snap-Weighted Age” that averages the age of the players on the field based on snaps. In 2015, the league-wide average age hit its lowest mark since the site started keeping track a decade ago. In 2006, the average age of the players on the field was 27.2; in 2015, it was 26.6. On offenses alone, the average age of players on the field dipped almost a full year, from 27.6 in 2006 to 26.8 last year.
    That’s partially because teams are now less inclined to keep aging players around. Despite medical and nutritional advancements, NFL careers are ending earlier for anyone who isn’t a quarterback or a special teams cog. In every year since the NFL/AFL merger in 1970, a 36-year-old offensive lineman had appeared in a game — until last season, when there were no 35-year-olds, either. Last year, the number of offensive linemen age 28 or over who appeared in a game dropped nearly 20 percent compared to 2011, while the number of players age 31 or older at any position fell 20 percent from a decade ago.

    It’s also because rookies are flooding the league. This year’s draft featured 107 early entrants, easily a record. Last season, 25 players age 21 or younger appeared in an NFL game, five times as many as in 2000 and more than double the total in 2012, a year after the league’s latest collective bargaining agreement was struck.

    In February, The Wall Street Journal reported that the average career length for NFL players has shrunk by two and a half years since 2008, and that shift is a source of great anxiety for coaches. “Let’s be honest, the younger the league, the less experienced the league is and with that, the quality of play doesn’t start off at the same level,” said Packers head coach Mike McCarthy. “I think what you see, particularly in the early part of the season, is a reflection of that.”

    McCarthy is particularly concerned about the end of veteran lines, which were staples of the league when he entered as an assistant in 1993. His Packers didn’t play an offensive lineman older than 29 last year — and that 29-year-old was Josh Sitton, who the team released last weekend.

    Despite coaches’ concerns, though, a collision of forces has made the age trend too fierce to counteract. The short version: In the past five years, NFL teams have committed heavily to cost-effective rookies, reserving lucrative second contracts for the game’s biggest stars. At the same time, the number of third-year juniors leaving college has swelled due in part to what Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert said is accelerated physical development and in part to a desire to get to the second, big-money contract sooner despite the low odds of most players actually cashing in. And though many of those early entry players are great talents, they face a steep learning curve when they enter the NFL. Because of strict roster limits on the number of players a team can carry and an uptick in the number of packages that rely on extra personnel, it’s now far harder to hide a less prepared draft pick on a roster — and that creates problems on the field. Further complicating matters, coaches and executives think rookies are less prepared than ever, but the new CBA restricts padded practices and offseason contact between players and coaches, limiting learning opportunities. Looming over all of that is teams’ reliance on the rookie salary scale, which since the 2011 CBA has guaranteed teams access to cheap players for four years and created a world in which older players have to break out in a big way to stick around after their first deal expires. And yes, that’s really the short version.

    “It’s just a fact, you have to continue to load your team with younger players, in hopes they are ready to go and ready to play productive football,” Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis said. “And yet, they are staying less in college, the rules are prohibitive, and [college] coaches are spending less time with players in college. The process from the bottom-up is shrunk, and you have to try to move them forward as quickly as you can.”
    Of course, moving quickly may be the problem.

    “We’ve got a list,” said Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley, “of six positions we’re going to pay.” The positions: quarterback, left tackle, and a playmaker on offense; a cornerback, a pass rusher, and a playmaker on defense. There are 22 starters on a football field, and the Bills’ strategy calls for paying big money to six of them. The team has more than six significant veteran contracts on the books at the moment because it stockpiled assets while long avoiding paying a franchise quarterback, but “When Tyrod [Taylor’s contract] hits,” Whaley said, “we won’t be able to have extra guys. The rest is up for us to draft well to replenish the rest of the roster, or find free agents who are very, very cost effective. Because you just can’t pay everyone.”

    Many teams around the league share the Bills’ general vision for paying big money to only a handful of veterans, and that’s a major reason the league has gotten so young. When the CBA ushered in the rookie salary scale in 2011, few understood the roster-building consequences. Previously, high draft picks had received richer contracts than basically anyone else in the league despite never playing a down, but teams wanted rookie contracts to be cost-controlled so that they could save the big money for veterans. When the old system was erased, rookie salaries plummeted.
    How NFL Teams Spend Their Money

    Sam Bradford, the top pick in 2010, signed for a guaranteed $50 million. Six years later, top pick Jared Goff signed a deal worth $27.5 million. After the new CBA, the rookie bargains became so extreme that a new strategy was born: Collect as many good rookie contracts as possible and use the spare cap space to splurge on a handful of second contracts. In today’s NFL, a second contract usually means a massive jump in money. Broncos superstar pass rusher Von Miller made salaries of $1.3 million and $1.5 million in 2012 and 2013 due to the constructs of the standard rookie deal he signed. His new contract, signed this year, will pay him $114.5 million over six years. Colts receiver T.Y. Hilton, meanwhile, made $1.45 million in his first three years in the league, a steal for a player who became a Pro Bowler. His second contract called for a $10 million signing bonus and $65 million overall. Teams are using their cap space on these deals selectively and leaning on cheaper, younger players for the rest of their roster, leaving the oldies vulnerable and bringing down the average age of the bulk of NFL teams.

    “The way the CBA is structured now, it’s really no different from any other workforce in that you want to find the healthiest, youngest, least-expensive talent and infuse it into your corporation,” said Titans general manager Jon Robinson. “We’re the same model.”

    And so the churn rate for older NFL players gets faster. If draftees don’t adjust to the pro game quickly, their NFL careers can be over in short order. The reality, Whaley said, is that less college experience means a longer adjustment to the NFL game, but players are due for extensions after four seasons (except first-round picks, who have team options for a fifth year), often before things have really clicked. “These guys coming in now may not be ready until Year 3,” he said. “And you’ve got to pay him and you have no idea what to do with him.”

    Sometimes, teams figure, it’s easier to let those guys go.

    “Look at Josh Norman,” Carolina Panthers coach Ron Rivera said. “He was young. He fought the system, he was a maverick, did things his own way.”
    Norman entered the league in 2012 as a fifth-round pick from Coastal Carolina. He was a late bloomer who never attracted much attention from big colleges and flashed athletic ability but little more in his first two seasons in the league. “But [secondary coach Steve] Wilks was patient,” Rivera said. “[Defensive coordinator] Sean McDermott was patient. We kept fighting with him and in 2014, he buys in all of the sudden. All of that athletic ability came together with what he was learning and you finally saw the skill.”

    Rivera details this particular case because Norman developed into one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL during his age-27 season and a year later was a key piece for the Panthers during their run to the Super Bowl. He is also, Rivera observed, the type of project that NFL teams increasingly have little time for. “A lot of guys we get are tremendous athletes but their skill set hasn’t been fixed,” he said. “There’s no patience.”

    Panthers general manager Dave Gettleman said that the sport has changed dramatically because of the combination of less developed player skill sets and a lack of patience from teams. He cited Bill Walsh’s seminal book, Finding the Winning Edge, which stated that from the moment a player (or coach or employee) enters the building, he has two years to prove his worth. This has long been established conventional wisdom throughout the league, but suddenly, it’s become problematic.

    “Now, because the players are not coming as ready to use, you have to give him the third year,” Gettleman said. “But there’s no patience.”
    No team has had more success with young players in recent years than the Panthers, as Cam Newton, Kelvin Benjamin, Luke Kuechly, Kony Ealy, and Devin Funchess all jumped to the league early and helped build one of the NFL’s best squads. Yet despite their success, the Panthers still worry about the vast youth movement spreading through the league.

    Rivera cited footwork as a specific concern for today’s rookies. He’s troubled that young cornerbacks tend to backpedal with their bodies half open instead of facing the receiver and that new linebackers throw their bodies into plays to recklessly tackle, often leading to a missed tackle or an injury. He’s worried that the new breed of receiver runs limited routes in college.

    To account for this, Rivera has a two-pronged approach for young players: For the freak athletes who have the talent to play right away or those who are forced to play right away due to a lack of positional depth, he uses training camp to immerse them immediately, even pairing them with a veteran in their position group to create a culture of staying after practice, something he said has been crucial in the post-2011 CBA era of limited practice. For raw talents, he eases them in slowly while still stressing that all young players get reps with the first team so that coaches can better gauge their development. He uses Andrew Norwell, now one of the league’s best guards, as an example of a player he opted to bring along slowly, but still gave the occasional look at first-team guard before he was really ready.

    “Everyone’s skipping certain elements of development,” said Rivera, who expects to see more draft busts as teams base player selection off what he calls “one-year-wonder” juniors. “There’s so much of this going on that you do wonder where these guys are being developed.”

    On March 18, 23-year-old Ravens cornerback Tray Walker died from injuries suffered in a motorbike accident in Miami one day prior. Eight days later, at the funeral in a Baptist church in south Florida, Harbaugh approached the head of the NFL Players Association, DeMaurice Smith. “I said the rules have to be adjusted for first-, second-, third-year guys,” Harbaugh said, referring to rules that limit offseason contact between players and coaches. “The rules are built for guys who have families and need time off.”

    Smith said the interaction was brief. “One, we were at a funeral,” he said. “Two, we don’t negotiate with coaches. If he has any issues he has an owner right upstairs. The owner reports to the management committee and they approach us about changes.” Smith said that over the life of the now five-year-old CBA, owners have not made a proposal about changing offseason procedures.

    “We’d always be open to changes or discussing it if coaches abided by the rules we already had,” said Smith. The Ravens were forced to cancel one week of offseason activities for not following those rules, putting rookies in pads during a period when doing so was prohibited.
    The NFL’s Brewing Information War

    Harbaugh is concerned about what a younger NFL means for the on-field product, but also for the sport’s ability to deal with players off the field. He thinks the influx of youth has created an atmosphere in which there’s a greater need to keep players in the building in the offseason in an effort to make sure they’re behaving smartly. He said he’s currently “vetting the CBA” to figure out if he can send team employees to work out with players at their homes.

    “I think about it all the time,” Harbaugh said of Walker’s death. “Maybe one of our guys goes into the garage, maybe we see the motorbike. We say ‘What’s this all about? Is this really safe?’”

    When it comes to strictly football matters, Harbaugh thinks the league and the union are failing younger players. “If you want to become a great piano player you’ve gotta play piano. If you want to be a great golfer you’ve got to play every day. But if you want to be a great football player, it’s ‘Oh, we aren’t allowed to play football for three months,’ and I don’t even mean play football, I mean we can’t do a drill. It doesn’t make sense.”

    The modern NFL rookie is a paradox, said Phil Savage, executive director of the Senior Bowl and a longtime NFL executive. “The résumé of a college player used to be much thicker. The height, the weight, the speed, and the skill ability has far surpassed what it used to be. But the technique of playing the sport is probably lacking.”

    Due to his position at the Senior Bowl, the premier college scouting game held annually in Mobile, Alabama, Savage watches college players closely throughout the season. He said that while plenty of the rawness incoming players carry can be traced to the 1991 NCAA rule that limited practice to 20 hours a week per team, the dip has worsened in the past few years. There’s the spread offense, of course, which has been well-documented as a thorn in NFL coaches’ sides. Whaley expressed frustration at college offenses that lack huddles and playbooks. “The college quarterback is a joystick, and the coach is playing the joystick,” he said before going on to echo Savage: “A lot of these guys are taught scheme and not technique.”

    There’s also the matter of teams taking it easier during spring practice, limiting tackling or two-a-days in order to keep players fresher, and Savage believes that change has cost young players. “Look at edge pass rushers, outside linebackers,” Savage said. “A lot of them are one-trick ponies in college. They rely on speed, then they go to the NFL and get locked up and they don’t have a counter move. They can’t get reps at full speed, you can’t replicate this stuff in practice, and then when it’s a real game it’s very difficult.”

    Vikings general manager Rick Spielman said one trend that exacerbates that rawness is the tendency for coaches to switch players’ positions during their college careers. Increasingly, slower but physical safeties are becoming linebackers, bigger and slower linebackers are becoming defensive linemen, and less-athletic defensive linemen are becoming offensive linemen. This creates a challenge in scouting and development, Spielman said; however, he said that college coaches can occasionally be vindicated, like in the case of second-year Vikings offensive tackle T.J. Clemmings, a fourth-round pick and defensive end-turned-OT, whom the Vikings were able to quickly turn from a raw product into a productive member of the team.

    Whether coaches or executives can point to a similar success story, they’ve all arrived at the same conclusion: This trend isn’t stopping, meaning NFL teams need to learn to live with a league full of 21-year-olds and light on those on the wrong side of 30.

    “All of the underclassmen, that number is ever-growing and it’s not slowing down,” Robinson said. “Some of them are prepared for the National Football League, some of them are not. We have to figure that out quickly.”

    #52312
    Avatar photozn
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    Cracking the code: Kevin Demoff helps Rams find their way back to L.A.

    Sam Farmer

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-kevin-demoff-20160904-snap-story.html

    All Kevin Demoff wanted to do was get on with the basketball game. But everyone else on the court was frozen in place, transfixed by the familiar, hulking man in the stands. It was Miami Dolphins quarterback Dan Marino, who had slipped into the gymnasium of the small school in Brentwood to watch Kevin, the fourth-grade son of his agent, try his hand at point guard.

    “The other nine kids on the court were just staring at Dan,” Demoff recalled. “And I’m like, ‘Hey, we’ve got a game to win here.’ I didn’t even think about it.”

    As the football world would learn decades later, Demoff is unruffled by the big stage. The Rams’ top executive, whose childhood was steeped in pro football, was an integral figure in untangling the most confounding knot in professional sports. Demoff, 39, was key in bringing the NFL back to Los Angeles for the first time in 22 years.

    It was Rams owner Stan Kroenke who had resources and vision for a transformational stadium project at Hollywood Park, but Demoff was the point guard when it came to selling that Inglewood concept to the rest of the league.

    “I’m fortunate to have the tutelage of Stan, who has really pioneered how you combine resources and sports in a way that has never been done before,” said Demoff, the Rams’ executive vice president of football operations and chief operating officer. “I’m grateful for his mentorship. He pushes our team for greatness and challenges us to envision the impossible.”

    In January, what once was impossible became a reality. By a 30-2 vote, NFL owners chose the Inglewood project over a competing plan in Carson jointly backed by the San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders.

    “In my 45 years in the movie business, I’ve heard some very exciting pitches for movies,” said Steve Tisch, co-owner of the New York Giants and an Oscar-winning film producer. “Kevin’s pitch for the Rams’ new stadium at Hollywood Park was just as powerful. He was passionate, informative, prepared and dynamic. … It was like watching a great trailer for a movie.”

    The rail-thin Demoff, who seemed to grow grayer by the day, was under intense pressure in recent years as he fought the stadium battles in St. Louis and navigated a new path in Los Angeles, where so many others had tried and failed to get football venues built.

    Many Rams fans in St. Louis revile Demoff, accusing him of being an architect of a deception. They argue Kroenke was determined to relocate the team to Los Angeles, and only paid lip service, by way of Demoff, to staying in St. Louis.

    Demoff said suspicions surfaced even before arbitrators ruled in favor of the Rams in early 2013, paving the way for the team to get out of its lease two years later.

    “When you work at a team, your job is to build an emotional connection with the fan base,” Demoff said. “The [St. Louis] stadium situation always gave reason for fans to not completely commit to you. Because in the back, deep part of their minds, there were stadium issues that were unresolved. And even worse, it was a city that had lost a team before.”

    In the summer of 2014, when Kroenke took control of the 300 acres at Hollywood Park, the prospect of a move back to Southern California became more real.

    “Now you had a site that the NFL had long coveted, an owner with the expertise and resources to do it the way the NFL had always wanted to do it, and a team that had the right to relocate,” Demoff said.

    “Even then, the best project and opportunity in Los Angeles never guaranteed success. No one had figured out this Rubik’s Cube for so long.”

    Problem-solving is in Demoff’s DNA. His father, a former public defender, soared to the top of the sports-representation business by finding creative ways to structure contracts when other agents might fall back on boilerplate solutions.

    “He’s creative, he’s patient, he’s fair,” Kevin said of his father. “Ultimately, he just listens, reasons, comes up with solutions. He was always trying to look for a win-win.”

    Marvin and Patti Demoff still live in the same Benedict Canyon home where they raised their two children, Kevin and Allison. Before the age of cellphones, the family had four land lines and a fax line, as Marvin liked to be home for dinner and would work there into the night.

    Sometimes, Kevin would quietly pick up a phone and eavesdrop on his dad’s negotiations. Other times, he’d sit near his dad and try to imagine what was being said on the other end of the line.

    “You’re a kid; you’re always thinking about how you can get one over on your parents,” he said. “That’s your job in life. So I spent a lot of time thinking about how I could negotiate against my father. What would I say? That’s what I basically spent a lot of my childhood doing.”

    Marvin, 73, had an all-world stable of clients that included Marino, John Elway, Shannon Sharpe, Junior Seau, Jonathan Ogden and Tim Brown, and Rams such as Jack Youngblood and Jim Everett.

    Years ago, the NFL draft started on a Thursday at 5 a.m. on the West Coast and lasted into the night. That was like a holiday in the Demoff household.

    “What I loved about the draft was I got to skip that morning of school,” Kevin said. “I had to go to school when the first round was over. So I would always hope for the really long first round with lots of trades. We used to bring in bagels and donuts at 4:30 in the morning, sit in the den in our pajamas and watch.”

    Kevin was 6 in 1983, when his dad represented both No. 1 pick Elway and No. 27 Marino. That was the best draft ever for quarterbacks. But what Kevin remembers is another of his father’s clients, running back Curt Warner, watching on TV from their house. After being selected third overall by the Seahawks, he and Kevin spent the rest of the morning shooting baskets.

    Although Kevin religiously followed lots of sports, he was partial to football. At 10, he’d spend hours reading football magazines and devising mock drafts. He and his dad were in an early fantasy football league, too, with teams printed on big spreadsheets and scored by hand. They played against lawyers at his dad’s firm, and ran circles around them. One season, he was a ball boy for the Chargers, a club he would later go head-to-head against in the acrimonious stadium derby.

    “I became fascinated with the elements of managing a team and how it worked,” he said.

    When he went to college at Dartmouth, however, he did not envision working for a team or being an agent. He wanted to be a sportswriter. He was sports editor at the school’s paper, and called games on the college radio station.

    Upon graduating, he went to work for a start-up Internet company that eventually got into the business of designing websites for teams. One of his pitches was to the Oakland Raiders, where he met team executive Bruce Allen.

    Around that time, Casey Wasserman was starting the Arena Football League’s Los Angeles Avengers, and needed someone to run the personnel side. He called Allen for staffing advice, and Allen suggested he reach out to Demoff, who was 23 at the time. Wasserman, then 24, wound up hiring him.

    “What Kevin and I realized is that, if you go and work for an NFL team, you don’t really have a massive impact as a young kid,” Wasserman said. “You only learn what they want you to learn. In the Arena League, we were all in, all responsible for all of it. That was our PhD in sports.”

    Demoff said that was his opportunity to learn the team side of the business “and make a ton of mistakes without anybody ever seeing them.”

    After four years, he was ready to take the next step.

    “Ultimately, I decided I didn’t want my life decided on whether a ball bounced off a net or a post, or went into the stands, and that it was time to grow a skill set,” he said.

    Demoff decided to return to business school at Dartmouth, but not before Allen offered him a front-office job with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, where he had rejoined former Raiders coach Jon Gruden.

    Demoff considered going to the NFL, but eventually opted for graduate school. “Why don’t you do both?” Allen said, and brought him on as an unpaid intern. He would send projects to Demoff at Dartmouth, then bring him down for the Senior Bowl, scouting combine and training camp.

    “Kevin grew up the same way as I did,” said Allen, son of Hall of Fame coach George Allen. “It was from a slightly different perspective, but he had the same understanding of the game, the league, the players and the coaches, because of not only Marvin’s presence in the league but his domination of the league.”

    The day after Demoff graduated, he was with the Buccaneers as a full-time employee, and he and his wife, Jenn, set up shop in Tampa. While living there, they would have their daughter, Claire.

    A few years later, they would move to St. Louis, where Kevin took a job with the Rams, and Jenn had their son, Owen. Demoff was in his early 30s and running an NFL franchise.

    “I’m not naive,” he said. “I got a lot of opportunities in my life and football because of my last name, and I’m grateful for that. I didn’t deserve the Avengers job when I got it. I didn’t deserve the Rams job when I got it. Both were taking leaps of faith on me based on my father and what he’d done, and somewhat based on my career. You hope from there you can go earn it.”

    In January, at a Houston hotel, Demoff delivered his final presentation of Kroenke’s vision to the rest of the NFL owners. After a series of votes, Inglewood beat Carson in a landslide, and the Rams were given the green light to return to Los Angeles. Since, the Rams moved, traded up for the No. 1 pick and helped secure a Super Bowl for Inglewood at the end of the 2020 season.

    “It’s surreal,” said Patti Demoff, a college counselor. “They’re here, but it almost feels like an out-of-body experience. I have to keep reminding myself the Rams aren’t just here visiting.”

    Both of his parents point to the fact that Demoff was a history major at Dartmouth, with an emphasis in art history. They said his creative side allows him to look at problems from many different angles, and to see solutions others might miss.

    “What it allowed him to do is really get Stan’s vision and be able to explain it to others,” Marvin said. “When he showed you a picture of what Inglewood is going to look like, he could see the art form, the vision, and be passionate about that vision the way people would be passionate about a piece of art.”

    Of course, with the Demoffs, it all comes down to the art of the deal. Father and son will be on the opposite sides of the table in the coming days as they hammer out details of an expected contract extension for Rams Coach Jeff Fisher, represented by Marvin.

    “It’s like playing chess or checkers against yourself,” Kevin said. “Our styles are so similar, you focus on the same things. So you always wind up in a draw or stalemate. I can always tell when we’ve reached the logical conclusion of a negotiation, because I’ll say, ‘Do you have any other solutions?’ and he says, ‘No . . . but I raised you better than this.’”

    Marvin has a picture on his desk from Patti’s 40th birthday party in 1987. It’s of the family, grouped together at the Hollywood Park finish line. A great memory. Kevin has already planned an updated shot to go with it: the family, much larger now, standing at midfield of the new stadium when it opens in 2019 — a different kind of finish line.

    • This topic was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Avatar photozn.
    #52303
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    off the net from Wildflecken

    Appears Goff will be running the scout team and going against our defense weekly, preparing them for the upcoming opponent. I know in today’s environment taking the patient approach is not viewed favorably but it has been my take since I saw his snaps in the Cowboys contest.

    I never did understand what the National analysts were basing their decision Goff was the most day 1 ready of this years crop of quarterbacks. Once the trade was made and it became clear Goff was Rams target (along with Hue Jacksons who traded down when it became clear Goff would not be there at 2) I took a much deeper look. I did see the footwork and pocket presence, highly unusual traits for an air raid system qb. I liked his arm, velocity, and ability to lead receivers during the first look but a lot of air raid qb’s throw a nice ball. (The only air raid qb in the last 5 years whose arm impressed me enough on first look to ignore the system he played in was Bryce Petty’s.) So I bought in, bought into the viewpoint the system he ran differed from the one read system used at Baylor and the system Goff ran had reads and progressions similar to the NFL. In reality the system more closely resembles the one read system.

    Do I feel Goff was a mistake, no. It was a hefty price but the need was huge and the draft class was similar in many positions of Rams needs to qb, round one was void of the wow prospects like Donald and Gurley. And Goff should still develop into that wow prospect.

    We have seen glimpses, like the throw to Britt on the scripted portion of Rams first drive in the Vikings game, that is a NFL caliber throw, velocity and placement. A quality red zone throw not seen by a Rams qb in quite a long time. They say the footwork was Manning like and the pocket presence and arm Favre like. There is not another qb on the roster that can execute the play to Marquez in the Vikings game.

    One look at Goff’s preseason action tells me rushing him would have a negative impact on a promising career. The right approach (the old school method) I am confident will lead to the qb we saw on the scripted drive in pre season game 4 on a consistent basis.

    #52221
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Jared Goff might not be ready, but that doesn’t mean Rams didn’t make progress

    Bonsignore

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/rams-727844-goff-havenstein.html

    MINNEAPOLIS – The Rams boarded a late-night flight home from Minnesota on Thursday after concluding the preseason with a 27-25 loss to the Vikings. Awaiting them in Southern California was a massive move from their training camp site in Irvine to their home base in Thousand Oaks, a looming deadline to trim the roster from 75 players to the final 53-man roster and the realization that prized rookie quarterback Jared Goff will likely start his first NFL season as a third-stringer.

    The next few days will be as hectic as they are sobering, and with the regular season 11 days away there is a ton of work left to do to get ready for the San Francisco 49ers on Sept. 12 in Santa Clara.

    With the preseason now in the books, here is what we learned about the Rams after Thursday’s preseason finale.

    GOFF HAS A LONG WAY TO GO

    As much as it was a shock to hear Rams coach Jeff Fisher admit Goff will likely start the season behind both Case Keenum and Sean Mannion, it’s the right call.

    Goff is not ready to take the field in a meaningful game. That doesn’t mean he can’t be ready one day or won’t ever be ready, but as we stand at the beginning of a new season Goff needs a ton of work.

    “It’s all about being patient with him,” Fisher said.

    Goff finished the preseason 22-of-49 passing for 232 yards, two touchdowns, two interceptions and three fumbles.

    Those are unsteady numbers to be sure, and while he remains steadfast in his ability – as do the Rams – his immediate future is more about learning and developing behind the scenes rather than playing.

    The last month has been an eye-opening process for Goff, and he pledges to emerge better and stronger for it.

    “The good things I did and all of the stuff I can learn from,” he said. “Obviously, there’s a lot of both.”

    #52211
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams can be patient with Jared Goff, thanks to Sean Mannion

    Rich Hammond

    http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20160902/rams-can-be-patient-with-jared-goff-thanks-to-sean-mannion

    Preseason football, or regular-season mop-up work, might not be glamorous, but certainly it has been meaningful to Rams quarterback Sean Mannion.

    That work, done largely in the shadows but still monitored by those who matter, apparently has helped convince Rams coach Jeff Fisher that Mannion, and not heralded rookie Jared Goff, should be his backup quarterback behind Case Keenum to open the season.

    “I’m excited to hear that,” Mannion said, with a bit of trepidation, after the Rams’ preseason loss to Minnesota on Thursday night. Fisher apparently had not shared the news.

    To be clear, Fisher said Mannion “probably” would be the backup if the season started today. There’s some wiggle room there, but not much given that only five intrasquad practices stand between the Rams and their Sept. 12 season opener against the San Francisco 49ers in Santa Clara.

    Many will view the (apparent) decision as a referendum on Goff, and wonder why the No. 1 pick in this year’s draft hasn’t progressed enough to even be the second-best quarterback on the roster.

    That’s certainly fair, but Mannion shouldn’t be ignored. He’s no slouch.

    In 2015, the Rams thought enough of Mannion, the all-time Pac-12 Conference leader with 12,600 passing yards to take him with a third-round pick. Mannion started last season third on the depth chart behind Nick Foles and Keenum.

    Foles and Keenum pinballed the starting job back and forth, but in November, with Keenum hurt and Foles ineffective in a game against Cincinnati, Mannion came in and completed 6 of 7 passes for 31 yards.

    The game was long since lost, but the effort wasn’t lost on Fisher.

    Mannion, now 24, had a solid preseason, even though he appeared in only three of the four games. He completed 39 of 60 attempts for 325 yards with four touchdowns and one interception.

    Keenum completed 18 of 24 for 188 yards, one touchdown and zero interceptions. Goff completed 22 of 49 for 232 yards, two touchdowns and two interceptions.

    “I feel like, in the three preseason games I got to play in, I was able to put my best foot forward,” Mannion said. “I played a lot of good football. I think, even going back into April, when we started the offseason program, I’ve felt really good about how I’ve been playing.”

    The Rams’ stated goal, of course, has been to get Goff ready to play. Clearly they still see him as their long-term answer, but Mannion’s solid play apparently helped convince them they don’t need to rush.

    “I’ll obviously do everything I can to support Case, and just stay ready,” Mannion said. “As you know, you’re a play away, It’s always preparing like you’re the starter.”

    #52037
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams, Jared Goff end exhibition season on a down note in loss to Vikings

    RICH HAMMOND

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/rams-727741-vikings-final.html

    MINNEAPOLIS – The preseason is over. The Jared Goff revolution never materialized, but the Rams remained mostly injury-free and displayed some good depth on defense. All in all, call it a draw.

    That’s how it will go down officially, as the Rams won twice and lost twice, and ended the warm-up portion of their schedule with a 27-25 loss to the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday at the new U.S. Bank Stadium.

    The Rams led 7-0 after the first drive, then bumbled on offense and special teams – they allowed a 106-yard kickoff return for a touchdown – which negated a good showing by their defense. The Vikings turned four Rams turnovers into two touchdowns and two field goals and led 27-10 in the fourth quarter.

    But if the preseason was meant to be a referendum on Goff, then it’s difficult to declare it a success. All along, though, the Rams insisted they would take a slow-go approach with their rookie quarterback, and against the Vikings, Goff showed why an immediate anointing probably wasn’t a good idea.

    In fact, Coach Jeff Fisher indicated after the game that he will “probably” list Sean Mannion as his season-opening No. 2 quarterback, behind starter Case Keenum, with Goff as the third-stringer.

    “You know, I think it’s going to take a little bit more time,” Fisher said of Goff’s potential to back up. “That’s not to say he can’t be a two or start, but if we were starting right now, I’d probably have Sean as the two. Because it’s all about being patient with him. He’s not frustrated or anything.”

    Goff, who took the reins early Thursday as Keenum rested to prevent injury, looked great as he led the Rams on a seven-play, 62-yard touchdown drive to start the game.

    Goff ended that drive with a nicely timed 1-yard touchdown pass to receiver Kenny Britt, and that proved to be the last great moment for Goff and the Rams’ offense, which slumbered throughout the game.

    By the end of the first half, Goff had misfired on several attempts, and also fumbled and thrown an interception on consecutive plays deep in his own territory. That helped the Vikings take a 13-7 halftime lead, even though the Rams’ strong defense held Minnesota to 125 yards in the first half.

    Goff played the first half and finished 6 of 16 for 67 yards, one touchdown and one interception. In four preseason games, Goff was 22 of 49 for 232 yards, two touchdowns and two interceptions.

    “I felt like I made good strides and made a lot of progress,” Goff said. “I feel like I’ve come a long way, through OTAs and summer and camp. I feel good about where I’m at.”

    Thursday’s game had little else to analyze. The Rams played six starters: Britt, offensive linemen Jamon Brown, Rob Havenstein and Rodger Saffold, linebacker Akeem Ayers and safety Maurice Alexander.

    The Rams gave major playing time to young players, with the knowledge that within the next two days, they must reduce their roster from 75 players to the league-maximum 53.

    Perhaps a few players gave Fisher and General Manager Les Snead some tougher decisions to make Friday, but for the most part, the Rams didn’t change much from their first three games.

    The Rams showed great depth among their defensive front seven. They recorded nine hits on the first 22 drop-back attempts by Minnesota starting quarterback Joel Stave and the game was a (late) coming-out party for lineman Morgan Fox, who had been quiet throughout the preseason but recorded three sacks.

    The Vikings got a lot of help because of turnovers. Their four scoring drives started, respectively, at the Rams’ 19-, 9-, 28- and 6-yard lines, and resulted in two touchdowns and two field goals.

    Minnesota’s Jhurell Pressley returned a kickoff 106 yards for a touchdown in the third quarter, and the Rams muffed one punt and had another deflect off the leg of receiver Duke Williams for a turnover.

    Goff figured heavily in two of the Rams’ miscues. He fumbled a shotgun snap late in the second quarter, which turned into a field goal that cut the Rams’ lead to 7-6. On Goff’s next play, he threw an interception, and the Vikings scored a touchdown on their next play to take the lead for good at 13-7

    #52015
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams, Jared Goff end exhibition season on a down note in loss to Vikings

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/rams-727741-vikings-final.html

    MINNEAPOLIS – The preseason is over. The Jared Goff revolution never materialized, but the Rams remained mostly injury-free and displayed some good depth on defense. All in all, call it a draw.

    That’s how it will go down officially, as the Rams won twice and lost twice, and ended the warm-up portion of their schedule with a 27-25 loss to the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday at the new U.S. Bank Stadium.

    The Rams led 7-0 after the first drive, then bumbled on offense and special teams – they allowed a 106-yard kickoff return for a touchdown – which negated a good showing by their defense. The Vikings turned four Rams turnovers into two touchdowns and two field goals and led 27-10 in the fourth quarter.

    But if the preseason was meant to be a moratorium on Goff, then it’s difficult to declare it a success. All along, though, the Rams insisted they would take a slow-go approach with their rookie quarterback, and against the Vikings, Goff showed why an immediate anointing probably wasn’t a good idea.

    In fact, Coach Jeff Fisher indicated after the game that he will “probably” list Sean Mannion as his season-opening No. 2 quarterback, behind starter Case Keenum, with Goff as the third-stringer.

    “You know, I think it’s going to take a little bit more time,” Fisher said of Goff’s potential to back up. “That’s not to say he can’t be a two or start, but if we were starting right now, I’d probably have Sean as the two. Because it’s all about being patient with him. He’s not frustrated or anything.”

    Goff, who took the reins early Thursday as Keenum rested to prevent injury, looked great as he led the Rams on a seven-play, 62-yard touchdown drive to start the game.

    Goff ended that drive with a nicely timed 1-yard touchdown pass to receiver Kenny Britt, and that proved to be the last great moment for Goff and the Rams’ offense, which slumbered throughout the game.

    By the end of the first half, Goff had misfired on several attempts, and also fumbled and thrown an interception on consecutive plays deep in his own territory. That helped the Vikings take a 13-7 halftime lead, even though the Rams’ strong defense held Minnesota to 125 yards in the first half.

    Goff played the first half and finished 6 of 16 for 67 yards, one touchdown and one interception. In four preseason games, Goff was 22 of 49 for 232 yards, two touchdowns and two interceptions.

    “I felt like I made good strides and made a lot of progress,” Goff said. “I feel like I’ve come a long way, through OTAs and summer and camp. I feel good about where I’m at.”

    Thursday’s game had little else to analyze. The Rams played six starters: Britt, offensive linemen Jamon Brown, Rob Havenstein and Rodger Saffold, linebacker Akeem Ayers and safety Maurice Alexander.

    The Rams gave major playing time to young players, with the knowledge that within the next two days, they must reduce their roster from 75 players to the league-maximum 53.

    Perhaps a few players gave Fisher and General Manager Les Snead some tougher decisions to make Friday, but for the most part, the Rams didn’t change much from their first three games.

    The Rams showed great depth among their defensive front seven. They recorded nine hits on the first 22 drop-back attempts by Minnesota starting quarterback Joel Stave and the game was a (late) coming-out party for lineman Morgan Fox, who had been quiet throughout the preseason but recorded three sacks.

    The Vikings got a lot of help because of turnovers. Their four scoring drives started, respectively, at the Rams’ 19-, 9-, 28- and 6-yard lines, and resulted in two touchdowns and two field goals.

    Minnesota’s Jhurell Pressley returned a kickoff 106 yards for a touchdown in the third quarter, and the Rams muffed one punt and had another deflect off the leg of receiver Duke Williams for a turnover.

    Goff figured heavily in two of the Rams’ miscues. He fumbled a shotgun snap late in the second quarter, which turned into a field goal that cut the Rams’ lead to 7-6. On Goff’s next play, he threw an interception, and the Vikings scored a touchdown on their next play to take the lead for good at 13-7.

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