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http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/12/08/los-angeles-rams-junior-high-jeff-fisher-les-snead-problem
Thu Dec. 8, 2016
Rams Junior High: Inside a Dysfunctional Front OfficeJeff Fisher’s recent comments revealed a giant riff between coaches and personnel, with both sides bickering about who’s to blame for the team’s failings. Plus more on Matt Stafford, Gronk and who to watch in Week 14
The Rams’ struggles haven’t been limited to the field in their first season back in L.A.The Rams media session Tuesday didn’t play like a normal press conference inside the team’s temporary headquarters in Thousand Oaks, Calif. It was more like an assembly at what some in the building have come to know as “Rams Junior High.”
Coach Jeff Fisher was the speaker. General manager Les Snead’s new contract was the topic.
“I’m so busy here, I was honestly unaware he was extended. I’m being honest with you, we’re just working here,” Fisher said. “I look at this as being my responsibility, the win-loss record. We need to do a better job from a personnel standpoint. We’ve had some unfortunate things take place with some high picks in Stedman Bailey and Tre Mason and those kinds of things you don’t anticipate.
“But we’re moving forward.”
The comments went over like neutron bomb elsewhere in the ranks of the Rams. And it revealed a problem that’s existed since well before the team arrived on the West Coast.
The Rams have not had a winning season since Fisher and Snead joined the franchise in 2012.
But we start in Los Angeles, with a deeper look into a problem that will be difficult for the Rams to fix going forward. And to be clear: What Fisher said Tuesday about the state of the team’s roster didn’t create a problem, so much as it revealed one that’s existed for quite some time.
The struggling 4-8 Rams host Atlanta on Sunday, then head to Seattle before closing the season with San Francisco and Arizona at home. If the Rams split those four, they’ll match the 2014 low-water mark for Fisher’s five years at the helm. If things don’t get better over the next month, there’s no assurance the club will go forward with any of the current power brokers on the football side.
And when I say “get better,” that means more than just beating the Niners or Falcons. It also means seeing the middle-school lunchroom sniping—the kind that earned the building the “Junior High” nickname—fixed to a reasonable degree.
Fisher’s take about the talent on the roster provides a window into the issue dividing the Rams front office. You can infer that a certain amount of water must flow under a team’s bridge before a high-ranking executive, like Fisher, publicly pees in the company pool.
“It pissed me off because I knew it was meant as a shot,” said one Rams source. “You see it under that umbrella—‘We need to do a better job in personnel.’ OK, but you want everyone to think that you have full control. You can’t have it both ways, and it can’t always be the talent. Look at the roster, 2012 to now. In ’12, Jeff did a masterful job with what he was given. But we’ve gotten more talent, and we’ve gotten worse.”
Fisher and Snead arrived as part of an arranged 2012 marriage after the Rams axed coach Steve Spagnuolo and GM Billy Devaney, and the team outdistanced the Dolphins for the coveted ex-Titans coach. Part of Fisher’s motivation for picking St. Louis was having larger say in personnel decisions, and the organization was structured to reflect that with a partnership between the coach and GM under COO Kevin Demoff.
There are differing accounts of when things soured. Efforts to get comments from both Fisher and Snead were unsuccessful on Wednesday. But the problems have been an open secret in league circles for some time.
Now, this isn’t exactly unusual. San Francisco had issues with Jim Harbaugh and Trent Baalke, which proved irreconcilable. The Colts had their own problems with Chuck Pagano and Ryan Grigson, and those two found a way to make peace and move forward when it seemed impossible. Way back, Giants GM George Young and coach Bill Parcells hated each other all the way to two Super Bowls.
That said, the relationship between Fisher and Snead has been consistently described to me as “toxic.” And it’s been that way for a while.
“It’s always good to have healthy tension between the coach and GM, but that shouldn’t hurt the team or cause finger-pointing,” said another club source. “Over five years, (Tuesday) was the first time you saw public comments. That should never happen. … The organization has given them a long leash. And given that they’ve had time, they have to win, and they have to be able to work together.”
From the coaching side, the only surprise in Fisher’s comments were that they were made publicly. Internally, while acknowledging there’s a talented young core in place (Robert Quinn, Aaron Donald, Todd Gurley, Alec Ogletree, Trumaine Johnson), complaints about the depth of the roster and a failure to strike with draft picks outside the first round haven’t exactly been rare.
As for the personnel side, their retort is swift. After jettisoning Brian Schottenheimer after the 2014 season, Fisher has chosen two first-time offensive coordinators who proved to be in over their heads, and offensive line development has been sparse behind line coach Paul Boudreau. The personnel side will acknowledge the team needs more help there, and at corner and receiver, but point out that losing players like cornerback Janoris Jenkins wasn’t their call.
They’ll also question how hard the team is pushed, with a lack of in-season padded practices being an example of the perceived problem.
Then it starts to get personal. One example: Perception held that Fisher’s guy in scouting for his first four years was Rich Snead (no relation to Les), who was seen as abrasive with scouts and an operative of the coach’s. He left the Rams last winter, amid some feeling that he was a divisive force in the organization.
To his credit, the GM has remained above board through this mess, at least publicly, and in the aftermath of Fisher’s comments. But clearly, there’s blame to go around when a team goes 31-44-1 in five years, without so much as a .500 season along the way.
Can that be fixed by New Year’s Day? It’s become increasingly clear that it better be.
Agamemnon* Does Snead work for head coach Jeff Fisher, or is Fisher working for Snead? When Snead made a reference to working “for” Fisher it set off some clucking among those who are hung up on titles. Here’s your answer: Fisher and Snead work for team owner Stan Kroenke. Fisher didn’t ask for total roster control as part of his contract with the Rams, but he does want to have a say, and he expects to have influence, and I don’t think anyone at Rams Park will push the coach out of the way when it comes time to make big decisions. But Fisher is a football coach. He doesn’t have time to scout and grind tape. Fisher wanted to bring in someone who could oversee the vitally important scouting work and then help the Rams make smart personnel decisions in the draft and free agency. And Fisher wanted someone he can trust. Snead is a workaholic that wears out DVD players with long hours spent studying video of players. And in Atlanta he had an eye for talent.
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“This is a three-man team now, and we’re looking forward to it,” Fisher said. “There’s no doubt in anybody’s mind that this is a partnership, and we’re gonna move forward. We’re going to make the right decisions; we’re going to make the correct decisions in all aspects of this roster.”
In the partnership’s most common form, Snead will identify and evaluate prospective talent, Demoff will sign it, and Fisher will coach it. But when it comes time to pull the trigger on a free agent, or turn in the card on draft day, where does the buck stop? Who has final say?
“We don’t anticipate differences of opinion,” Fisher said. “But in the event that there are, we will move on to the next player. It will be a consensus. As we said, it’s a partnership.”
If the Fisher-Snead-Demoff troika can’t agree on whether to take a particular player, they just won’t take him. However, Fisher said he doesn’t see it ever being that way on draft day. Any arguments or debate will take place well before draft day.
“The work will be done prior to the draft,” Fisher said. “The time that we’ll be spending collectively together is enormous right now. And I would say a week before we’re ready to pick, we will have made all our decisions.”
AgamemnonWho’s really in charge? Stellar power structures boost NFC West
By Albert Breer
NFL Media reporter
Published: June 13, 2013 at 11:12 a.m.ST. LOUIS RAMS
Owner: Stan Kroenke, 4th year
General Manager: Les Snead, 2nd year
Head Coach: Jeff Fisher, 2nd year
Other front-office notables: Kevin Demoff, Executive Vice President of Football Operations/CEO; Taylor Morton, Director of Player Personnel, Ran Carthon, Director of Pro Personnel.Who’s really in charge? Jeff Fisher came to St. Louis last year knowing he’d have influence within the organization — something that helped the Rams beat out the Miami Dolphins for his services — and the coach was part of the process in plucking Les Snead from the Atlanta Falcons to be GM. But in practice, and the way the contracts are written for Fisher and Snead, the Rams have tried to build a partnership between the two men, where the coach runs the show during the season and the GM is in command during the offseason. This is modeled after the approach of another team owned by Stan Kroenke, the Denver Nuggets, who until a few weeks ago had a similar setup with an experienced coach and younger GM. And according to those in St. Louis, that’s really the way Fisher wanted it, having someone he could work with on the personnel side.
Both the coach and GM report to Kroenke, as does Kevin Demoff, who’s charged with running the business side and helping to tie together the coaching and personnel ends of the operation. Demoff oversees contracts and cap, but allows Fisher and Snead to handle the heavy lifting on football. And further down the line, Snead imported trusted aides Taylor Morton and Ran Carthon from Atlanta to lead the team’s scouting department.
An outside perspective from an NFC personnel executive: “Jeff’s got a handle on the business. He’s a good administrator and he knows what he wants. Just an impressive guy. He’s an overseer, with a great feel for the game and business. … They’re pretty impressive since those guys got there — well-coached, sound and in a division that’s getting pretty tough. They’re stepping up. … The one thing you have to watch is the makeup and character — some of those guys had issues and they’re showing up in the pros. The corners, the running back, there have been more problems, and that’s part of being willing to roll the dice on guys. That can come back and bite you. However it goes, you get guys with a checkered past, and it bit them a little bit. … But there’s no question they made great hires, and they’re heading in the right direction. The problem is, the division’s a tough deal.”
I am just looking for stuff that explains how the Rams set up their staff. When you watch the Rams draft, it certainly seems that Fisher is in charge. When you see Fisher and Snead together, it seems the Snead defers to Fisher. I will post some of that stuff.
Agamemnon2012
Cory Harkey, TE, UCLA
Johnny Hekker, P, Oregon State
Rodney McLeod, S, Virginia
all UDFAs. And, so far, so good. And, I give Fisher credit for all the FAs the Rams signed, Hayes and the stupid CB, Finnegan.St. Louis Rams 2012 NFL Draft: Final Needs Rankings Before Draft
St. Louis Rams 2012 NFL Draft: Final Needs Rankings Before Draft
By Shane Gray , Senior Analyst Apr 16, 2012St. Louis Rams 2012 NFL Draft: Final Needs Rankings Before Draft
The 2012 NFL Draft will kick off for the St. Louis Rams in just 10 days, so it is time to rank the Rams’ positional needs one last time before presenting my last two mock drafts (with the first of those coming tomorrow).
Thus far, St. Louis has acquired the following free agents (with last team before Rams in parentheses):
LB Jo-Lonn Dunbar (New Orleans Saints)
CB Cortland Finnegan (Tennessee Titans)
DE William Hayes (Tennessee Titans)
DT Kendall Langford (Miami Dolphins)
DT Trevor Laws (Philadelphia Eagles)
TE Matt Mulligan (NY Jets)
G/T Quinn Ojinnaka (Indianapolis Colts)
WR Steve Smith (Philadelphia Eagles)
G/C Robert Turner (NY Jets)
C Scott Wells (Green Bay Packers)Of that list, the Rams have added at least three starters: cornerback Cortland Finnegan, defensive tackle Kendall Langford and center Scott Wells.
St. Louis has added two others who have a terrific shot at starting, too: wide receiver Steve Smith and linebacker Jo-Lonn Dunbar.
Of the remaining free free agent acquisitions, most are depth guys. However, defensive tackle Trevor Laws could potentially fight for a starting job depending on what occurs in the draft or during the remainder of free agency, particularly after the June cuts.
At the moment, St. Louis has eight picks in the draft.
That said, I have ranked the top eight positional needs for the Rams as they prepare to begin the annual event which kicks off on April 26.
Most of the rankings are extremely close in terms of their assigned numeric slotting. Some of the slots could easily be flipped flop in regard to need as the differences are razor thin in certain instances.
Please keep in mind that the needs rankings do not necessarily indicate a preferred draft order. The difference between being ranked third and seventh on this list is rather minuscule.
The main point here is to identify the eight biggest areas of need entering this month’s NFL draft.
With that said, let us jump right to it.
We missed out on Blackmon. LOL
Snead wanted to trade down one more time before picking Brockers, but Fisher said no.
Fisher got Bobby Wagoner mad cause we traded down and ended up with Pead.
Since Fisher nixed the trade down and took Brockers, he could have done the same thing with Wagoner. imo
It really looks like Fisher had final say on all the draft picks.
In my mind, no need to go any further. The draft is Snead filtered through Fisher. Fisher ran the draft. imo Agamemnonthe one thing. the only thing i can think of is fisher knows changes are coming. that’s just unavoidable. so he’s trying to tow a fine line between acknowledging he’s the one with final say and preparing to make changes in order to save his job.
and i wouldn’t put it past fisher to knock snead off a sinking ship to save himself. wouldn’t put it past any of them really.
it’s a game of thrones.
Fisher ran the draft. imo
I don’t think it’s that direct or simple.
Fisher “farms out” a lot of the draft decisions, because, as he himself has said, he does not know which guard to take in round 5 (that’s pretty much his exact words).
I think it really works like this. They work together to create rankings, long before the draft. And then stick to the rankings during the draft. Like most head coaches, JF only works on knowing obvious top picks. He’s not a draftnik who studies it down to the 5th round level. He lets scouts and Snead do that work. And he listens to them.
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I don’t think anything got decided that Fisher did not approve, except drafting Goff. That came from higher up. imo
I don’t think Fisher farms that stuff out and I really don’t believe anything Fisher says when it comes to stuff that might or might not be true. But, this is all my opinion. If you have a different one. Fine. I did stuff to my satisfaction. That may or may not satisfy others. AgamemnonThat’s a real article. Inside info, the whole 9 yards. (And you beat me to posting it by 2 minutes! Lol.)
So it’s a real article. As in.
Ruh-roh.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
In 2012, Fisher told Mike Silver that he chose Rams for "final say" on personnel. So Snead deflection is interesting https://t.co/stQi3GnN0Y
— Rich Hammond (@Rich_Hammond) December 8, 2016
AgamemnonJeff Fisher chose Rams over Dolphins in large part because of ‘final say’, better deal
Michael Silver
Yahoo! SportsOctober 12, 2012The last time the St. Louis Rams and Miami Dolphins staged a spirited showdown, the Fins got things rolling with an impressive aerial attack – but, in the end, couldn’t land their man.
Back in January, with both franchises conducting coaching searches and aggressively courting Jeff Fisher, Dolphins owner Stephen Ross took the 2012 offseason’s marquee candidate on a helicopter ride as part of an ostentatious recruiting effort.
View photosOn Sunday, Fisher will ride a bus to Sun Life Stadium, where his 3-2 Rams will face the 2-3 Dolphins in a game between two teams coming off impressive victories. Whatever the outcome, Fisher – who ultimately got a better deal and more power from St. Louis – has already convinced everyone in the Rams’ organization that the franchise he chose is on solid ground.
“I’m thrilled for our organization, our fans and the city of St. Louis, because we have a great direction, and I think there’s significant hope for the future,” Rams executive vice president Kevin Demoff said earlier this week. “I know our fans are excited to have a head coach who exudes confidence and is respected throughout the NFL. They had that in Dick Vermeil, and they think they’ve got their next Vermeil.”
When making the comparison to Vermeil, who coached the “Greatest Show On Turf” Rams to their lone Super Bowl triumph (over the Fisher-coached Tennessee Titans) 13 seasons ago, Demoff is not suggesting that the 2012 team is championship material. He knows better; consider the scary stat that 24 of the 53 players from St. Louis’ 2011 opening-day roster are no longer in the NFL.
If Fisher walked into an organization with severe talent deficiencies, not to mention one coming off a 2-14 season that hadn’t had a winning season since 2003, there were still plenty of positives that ultimately led him to embrace St. Louis: a shrewd, motivated and supportive owner in Stan Kroenke; a potential franchise quarterback in former No. 1 overall pick Sam Bradford, the 2010 offensive rookie of the year; and the chance to handpick a general manager (former Atlanta Falcons player personnel director Les Snead) with whom he could rebuild the roster.
View photos“We’re obviously trying to build for the future and to position ourselves to have sustained success,” Fisher said late Wednesday night. “That was always the vision. But no one, along the way, told me I didn’t have a chance to compete for the division in the meantime.”
Given that the NFC West, after years of futility, has suddenly morphed into the best division in football – all four teams are over .500, and the San Francisco 49ers are legitimate Super Bowl contenders – that’s no trivial endeavor.
Yet the Rams, for all their obvious flaws, are getting it done. They’ve already exceeded last year’s victory total despite fielding the NFL’s youngest roster, one that includes 15 rookies (there were 17 to start the season) and 32 newcomers overall. Last Thursday night’s 17-3 thrashing of the previously unbeaten Arizona Cardinals put St. Louis above the .500 mark for the first time since ’06 and validated a faith in Fisher that existed even before his arrival.
Though Fisher, who spent 16-plus years as the coach of the Titans (and, in the franchise’s former incarnation, Houston Oilers), had just six winning seasons while going 142-120 during that span, he is held in exceptionally high esteem in NFL circles. His even-keeled temperament, adaptability, emphasis on preparation and smart game-management helped him forge a strong reputation during his long reign in Tennessee, all while working for an owner (Bud Adams) not known for his commitment to winning or aggressive spending.
Last January, after the Rams announced the firings of general manager Billy Devaney and coach Steve Spagnuolo, Demoff received visits from several prominent players, each of whom openly lobbied for the coach with the iconic ‘stache.
View photos“When you have Sam Bradford, [linebacker] James Laurinaitis and [defensive end] Chris Long in your office saying, ‘Can we get Jeff Fisher?’ it tells you something,” Demoff said. “They knew how highly regarded he was around the league. I told them, ‘We’re gonna try, but there’s seven other teams [with coaching vacancies] thinking the same thing.’ ”
It quickly became apparent, however, that the Rams and Dolphins were in a two-team derby, one that would span 10 days during which Demoff “rode the emotional rollercoaster.” Though his father, Marvin, is Fisher’s longtime agent, Demoff swore he got no inside information and “learned more from [Yahoo!] and some of the media reports than from him.”
One thing Demoff read was that Ross, the Dolphins’ owner, was so hell-bent on getting Fisher that he was prepared to outbid other suitors for the coach’s services, no matter the price. In the end, that turned out to be hype – Ross, according to sources familiar with the negotiations, actually came in with a lesser offer than the Rams’ five year, $35-million package, though Fisher’s focus had already shifted to St. Louis by that point.
Ross’ insistence that incumbent general manager Jeff Ireland would retain contractual control of the team’s roster makeup was a far more significant factor in Fisher’s decision-making process.
“At the end of the day I wanted the ability to have final say, with a general manager I could build something with,” Fisher said. “And ultimately, a lot of it came down to Stan and Sam.”
Because of Bradford’s presence, Fisher knew he could leverage the Rams’ No. 2 overall pick to a quarterback-desperate team, ultimately inducing the Washington Redskins into giving up a massive booty for a shot at landing Heisman Trophy winner Robert Griffin III.
It wasn’t all high-fiving at Rams Park, though: In addition to inheriting a team that had lost 65 of 80 games over the previous five seasons, Fisher had to confront a crisis early on, as close friend and newly hired defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was suspended for at least a full season by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell for his role in the New Orleans Saints’ bounty scandal. Fisher, whose defensive staff includes Williams’ son, Blake, as the team’s linebackers coach, is performing many of the coordinator’s duties, particularly on game day.
After an exhaustive GM search, Fisher and Demoff settled on Snead, a highly regarded personnel man with whom he had no preexisting relationship. They’ve quickly forged a strong collaborative bond, one that was apparent during the draft, which featured more of the wheeling and dealing that had begun with the trade with the Redskins in March.
The Rams’ three-day draft haul included several players who have contributed immediately, including cornerbacks Janoris Jenkins and Trumaine Johnson and strong-legged kicker (and current cult hero) Greg Zuerlein, a.k.a. “Young GZ,” a.k.a. “Legatron.”
Zuerlein’s early success has been a pivotal part of the Fisher formula for the young Rams: Play high-energy, disciplined and physical defense; stay conservative on offense; keep games close and try to figure out a way to pull them out down the stretch.
St. Louis almost prevailed in its opener but suffered a last-minute, 27-23 road defeat to the Detroit Lions, in part because the replacement officials failed to notice a clock-operator’s mistake that gave the home team more time for a comeback. The Rams then sandwiched narrow home victories over the Redskins and Seattle Seahawks around a road defeat to the Chicago Bears before defeating the Cardinals.
In Demoff’s eyes, Fisher won over the locker room long before the Rams got over the .500 hump.
View photos“It’s no coincidence that two of our top defensive players [Long and Laurinaitis] signed long-term deals – and passed on free agency – during the summer,” Demoff said. “Before we played a real game, before they knew we were better, they sensed the direction we were going in and made that commitment. There’s a feeling of, ‘Hey, we’re building something pretty great here,’ and it’s fun to be part of it.”
Snead, too, has been struck by Fisher’s ability to convey his message to the Rams’ players with an aura of confidence, authenticity and authority.
“He’s an expert head coach,” Snead said Thursday night. “A lot of people may have a plan or know how to get the results they want, but he gets the players to buy in and enjoy the process. He’s not so much a CEO; he’s more like a chief medical officer. If you’re gonna lead a team of doctors, you’d better know how to perform surgery.”
On Sunday, Fisher’s de facto operating room will be the stadium he surveyed on that celebrated helicopter ride nine months ago. In our conversation Wednesday, he complimented Ross and Ireland, called the Dolphins an emerging team that is “a few pieces away from being really, really good” and said Miami seems to be well-coached under Joe Philbin, the man Ross hired after Fisher chose the Rams.
“They’re going to be successful,” Fisher said. “But for me, personally, I think I made the best decision.”
Five games into Fisher’s tenure, it’d be tough to find someone in St. Louis who disagrees with that assessment.
“Remember, this happened during [the aftermath of] Pujols-mania,” Demoff said, referring to the saga of the St. Louis Cardinals slugger who left to join the Los Angeles Angels via free agency in December. “Getting Jeff was a great win for St. Louis, especially going up against a larger market. And we’re trying to build on that and be very good for the next decade.”
The Rams believe they’re a team on the rise – and they’re absolutely enjoying the ride.
I thought I would go ahead a post the entire article. Although all I was really interested in was that something that showed that Fisher had final say on all personnel. I was looking for that for a long time.
.
As far as I can tell, the friction between parties is caused by differences between asst. coaches and Taylor Morton, Director/Player Personnel. Morton seems to rub people the wrong way. I have read that somewhere. AgamemnonWe may be talking past each other a bit here. I know Fisher’s in charge…of that I have no doubt. But he does not actually do the scouting work, so he can’t make informed decisions about a 5th round guard on his own. He said that himself, in 2012. My approach, always, to front office structure and organization issues is completely neutral. I am never out to exonerate or blame someone…I am just interested in how the structure works. Plus I do not see Fisher as having thrown Snead under the bus. When JF says we have to do a better job with personnel he means himself too. He might ALSO mean that things like the differences between Morton and the coaches is something they have to move beyond or fix in some way.
So I wasn;t disagreeing with you, ag…just discussing and exploring. Different people remember different things so it helps if everyone pitches in their 2 cents.
Either way, details aside, if it gets boiled down to one simple statement, the situation the Rams have is like Seattle—the coach is the final say, and the GM ultimately defers to him.
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Yeah, I think we were doing that. Everyone should add their 2 cents.
Agamemnon
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