will Tavon step up in 2015?

i haven’t given up on tavon yet. i don’t think he’ll ever be a primary feature of this or any offense, but i think we have yet to see the best of him. but he’s still got 71 receptions for 660 yards through two seasons.

but yeah. this is a pivotal season for him. i wouldn’t say make or break. but yeah. i’d say it’s pivotal.

Well i agree with everything thats been said,
but i ‘also’ think they could use him
better. I’d use him more on deep routes
for example. I would not want him
running little stop routes in the
middle of zones.

At any rate, we know they are ‘simplifying’
some things on offense. So they
must have decided they needed
to adjust more to the players
they have.

w
v

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by wv.

No.
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I don’t disagree with C O’s analysis, so far as it goes. But I’d say something more basic.

T A does not FIT our offense. You guys all know my spiel about Tavon needing a downfield threat to open space for him underneath. That’s a team fit issue.

But then, suppose our TEs and WRs do establish a medium-to-long passing game. Would we really need Tavon underneath?

Well, not if our RBs are what we hope they’ll be. A synergy between running game and perimeter passing is a much more fundamentally sound way to break defenses down than using a tiny, gadget slot man.

Of course, the one area in which they HAVE gotten some production from Tavon is … the running game. He helped out last year with a lousy OL and inconsistent RB play.

But this, again, is where the question of fit arises. We’re going out there with, theoretically, a power OL and 2 potent RBs. Do we need a tiny, gadget RB as well? Are we going to take touches away from TM, TG, and BC … for Tavon? Really?

Especially when BC and TG are proven receiving RBs?

I just don’t see a place for Tavon. He’ll be an afterthought this year. He’ll return kicks and get a touch now and then and then probably wander off when his contract expires. I could easily see him getting cut.

Looking back, I would argue that the Tavon pick was a mistake. I mean something specific by that. It was a mistake for a Fisher/Schotty team to draft him. He never fit their vision. The 1st year, they tried to use him in gimmick plays that, I would argue, didn’t integrate organically with what they were trying to do. Then they gave up. Since then, only in the running game have they ever found anything that sorta worked. And as I’ve argued, there won’t be much value in that going forward.

It isn’t that Tavon sucks. He doesn’t. Even if you buy C O’s argument, it’s not a hopeless situation. Put him on NE’s roster and Bellichix would find a way to use him and to teach him how to be productive. What Tavon offers would fit in there.

He never has in StL and I don’t see the slightest reason to imagine that he ever will.

a little more on the not being pro-ready.

tavon came to west virginia as a running back. and converted to receiver his freshman year. he had 15 receptions the first year and then 58 receptions the second year. wasn’t until his junior year that he really took off. now i’m not saying he is going to have 100 receptions next year. but i think 50 receptions is reasonable. with more explosive plays.

as far as what fisher said. it could be open to interpretation. i take it as fisher thought they could have done a better job getting him in mismatches and getting him the ball where he could do damage. he also talked about lining him up wide. could it just be lip service? possibly. but for now at least i’ll take fisher’s word.

InvaderRam wrote:

a couple things i disagree with on the original post.

1. i do think he has the stop and start quickness the rams thought he had. i think the main problems are his size and the fact that he is thinking too much when he is out there. he won’t ever be able to overcome the size problem, but as far as the thinking too much. he’s only entering his third year. i would think there is still room to grow there, and as he starts to think less and just react, maybe the production will start to go up.

2. also. the issue of using him properly. there could be some validity to the argument. fisher himself has alluded to the fact that he was misused in 2014 and that they plan to correct that this year. maybe cig has some ideas. maybe it’s just a matter of simplifying some things. regardless, fisher saw some issues on defense and adjusted last year. maybe fisher and cig saw some issues with the offense in 2014 and plan on making adjustments. maybe these involve tavon. maybe they don’t. but i don’t think it can just be dismissed.

First of all I agree 100% with everything that Coach said, and have said the same things myself.

I tend to disagree with you here Invader, I’ve posted more than once during the season on TA’s lack of stop and start quickness.

IT was really startling to me for at his size one would think he would be a lot quicker.

Go back and watch his 2013 season, he couldn’t consistently allude even one man at the NFL level. I was really taken aback by it. Its why they threw him so many bubble screens, because they anticipated him doing damage. After they saw that he couldn’t, they stopped throwing them.

TA never ran the route tree in college and he had like a 7 Wonderlich score so I’m sure he has great difficult reading coverages.

Receiver have to do that as much as the qb does.

I didn’t want them to draft him, but he has been an even bigger disappointment than I anticipated.

If you can’t break tackles you damn sure better be able to allude them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=24&v=0i9sAUrnKfw

He’s a punt returner.

I don’t agree.

He does catch passes, and does do a combo of things in the passing game. IMO he is only a “failure” in that regard if someone expected him to be a pure receiver.

He also can run the ball out of the backfield.

And he can also return punts.

As for what Fisher said…he tellingly states (just paraphrasing not directly quoting) “one thing he CAN do is run past you downfield.” That is, he ends up talking about what Tavon is CAPABLE OF (presumably, capable of, so far.)

I also think there’s this mistaken view out there that says they didn’t use him to on deep routes. Well, yeah, they did. They did it with Bradford and Clemens. I don’t think they bothered to do it with Davis. They did do it with Hill, Hill just never threw to him.

Anyway, Tavon is controversial. That makes discussing him very interesting. And as such, lots of people with different opinions Declare The Truth Of Tavon. I do it myself, though part of me also tries to remember that there are widely different views on this. When it comes to that, I am personally more aligned with invader, who sees a guy who isn’t prepared or ready yet. What’s the difference between a player who CAN’T (do XY or Z) and a player who DOESN;T KNOW HOW TO YET (do XY or Z). I think sometimes people don’t account for the intangibles stuff–like when is a player lacking in a particular talent and when is he just playing without confidence or with mental hesitations. My own view is not that he is a “failure,” my view is that he needs to improve in a couple of areas, and that like Quick he’s slow to do it. This is the disadvantage of taking highly talented guys out of spread offenses—they are not pro ready, and sometimes take a couple of years to get it worked out. That makes them harder to judge.

yeah. we are in agreement. he’s not going to be a dominant pure wide receiver. but i think there’s certainly the capacity to get better as a receiver. plus he contributes big plays in a variety of ways. he’s a receiver/runner/returner. he’s a slash player.

zn wrote:

Zooey wrote:

He’s a punt returner.

I don’t agree.

He does catch passes, and does do a combo of things in the passing game. IMO he is only a “failure” in that regard if someone expected him to be a pure receiver.

He also can run the ball out of the backfield.

And he can also return punts.

He can do those things, yes. A few times a game.

I see him as a poor man’s Amp Lee.

InvaderRam wrote:

laram wrote:

InvaderRam wrote:

the arizona run at the end. and the chicago bears run where he stops on a dime and reverses. beautiful runs.

Invader when you get a chance check out this Football Outsiders breakdown on TA.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/factors-tavon-austin

well the article refers a lot to his lack of physicality. he’s too easily pushed around on routes, and he struggles to maintain balance when he takes a hit. those are all things i agree with. his hands last year were bad. yeah. that seems correct.

still. i think he can be a useful player. i don’t think he’ll ever live up to his draft status. but i see him as a valuable player. i see him as a rich man’s amp lee…

ha!

1. Screen, smoke, suck
So here’s this first-round slot receiver the Rams invested the No. 9 overall pick on. You would think maybe he’d be shifty enough to actually garner a missed tackle or two on some screens.
Instead, Austin seemed almost utterly preoccupied with how fast he could put his foot in the ground and get upfield. It is true that Austin’s speed is world-class — that stood out even on these failed screens. But Austin was not powerful enough to take a hit while shifting his weight, nor does he have the balance to re-establish himself on glancing blows of the NFL caliber.
The result was that the Rams had an 18 percent Success Rate on screen passes to their jitterbug receiver. Did Schottenheimer have some involvement in this? Sure. His screen designs were either completely base or so agonizingly complicated that you’d think he found them in Ulysses.
But the main problem the Rams had with these plays last year was that Austin had no ability to make anyone miss in open space. After watching some college tape, I don’t think he completely lacks this ability. But I do think he never properly adjusted to the NFL’s speed and tackling, and I do wonder how coaching may have contributed to that.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by laram.

laram wrote:

1. Screen, smoke, suck
So here’s this first-round slot receiver the Rams invested the No. 9 overall pick on. You would think maybe he’d be shifty enough to actually garner a missed tackle or two on some screens.
Instead, Austin seemed almost utterly preoccupied with how fast he could put his foot in the ground and get upfield. It is true that Austin’s speed is world-class — that stood out even on these failed screens. But Austin was not powerful enough to take a hit while shifting his weight, nor does he have the balance to re-establish himself on glancing blows of the NFL caliber.
The result was that the Rams had an 18 percent Success Rate on screen passes to their jitterbug receiver. Did Schottenheimer have some involvement in this? Sure. His screen designs were either completely base or so agonizingly complicated that you’d think he found them in Ulysses.
But the main problem the Rams had with these plays last year was that Austin had no ability to make anyone miss in open space. After watching some college tape, I don’t think he completely lacks this ability. But I do think he never properly adjusted to the NFL’s speed and tackling, and I do wonder how coaching may have contributed to that.

I always enjoy reading your opinions, LA. I have noticed
over the years that you are usually right about
your ‘personnel evaluations’.

Good to see you on the ‘little’ board 🙂

Doesn’t look like Tavon was worth the trade-up
at this point. But…perhaps he will improve
this year. We’ll see.

w
v

For a first round draft pick TA has been a bust and I don’t see another player on this years squad to open space for him. If that is what TA really needs. Far greater value and I think upside on Bailey taken rounds later.