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NERamParticipant
But I have done the ol’ 180 since the trade (actually, about 6 of them). I want them to take Goff. Give me the better passer and we’ll work with the rest. I’ll take the QB with the better feet and the better understanding of angles and timing over the QB with the strongest arm.
Go Rams!
Isiah 58Well, by my calculations, your (6) 180’s = (3) 360’s. According to the statistics below, a roulette wheel ball will spin somewhere near 27-29 revolutions before dropping into the pocket.
There are 3 days before the draft. Subtracting your (3) previous flip-flops, you could continue to vacillate between Goff and Wentz an average of 8 times a day for the next 3 days before making a final decision.
Just don’t rush into a hasty decision, you know? 😉
“Count the Revolutions
To beat the wheel by clocking spins, you start by actually counting the revolutions of the spinning ball, every spin. An average dealer may get 27 to 29 revolutions per spin before the ball loses enough momentum and falls to the pockets. An average dealer wont’ help you.
A methodical dealer with plenty of spins in their background is likely to spin at an even more regular pace. They may get 28.5 revolutions 90% of the time. That’s what you want to see – regularity”.
http://www.rouletteonline.net/beating-roulette-by-clocking-spins/
NERamParticipanthttp://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/4/21/11473382/jared-goff-nfl-draft-2016-cal-air-raid
Air raid QBs have bombed in the NFL. Can Jared Goff be the 1st to truly succeed?
By Jason Kirk
@JasonKirkSBN on Apr 21, 2016, 8:45a 53
One of college football’s most entertaining offenses has represented itself poorly in the NFL. Is the “Bear Raid” QB the man to
“The air raid” most frequently describes the efficient, up-tempo, pass-heavy spread offense made famous by Mike Leach and further developed in various ways by Leach proteges-turned-head coaches like Cal’s Sonny Dykes, Texas A&M’s Kevin Sumlin, Texas Tech’s Kliff Kingsbury and West Virginia’s Dana Holgorsen, who’s evolved all the way into using a run-first spread.
Air raid teams pretty much always put up tons of points and passing yards, but have few banners to show for them, whether due to exposed defenses, poor running games, weaknesses in the trenches, or happenstance. However, parts of the offense have bled into all sorts of offenses, and vice versa, so even saying “the air raid” in 2016 opens up a host of arguments. Let’s stick to the Leach tree, more or less.
This is relevant to the 2016 NFL Draft because the apparent favorite to go No. 1 to the Rams, Jared Goff, played all three of his years at Cal for Dykes and OC Tony Franklin, both former Leach assistants.
(Here’s the big ole deep-dive, multi-part explainer on how it works, and here are quick notes on how Dykes’ teams do it.)
Three years ago, when WVU’s Geno Smith was a first-round prospect, I looked at the history of air raid QBs in the NFL.It was bad. We can now add the young careers of Smith and Johnny Manziel to the list, which makes things no brighter.
What’s gone wrong?
I dunno.
Maybe air raid QBs have been overrated due to their big stats? It’s typically an underdog offense, for teams that can’t just overpower or out-speed opponents, which means its quarterbacks are rarely considered top prospects in high school or until late in their college careers.
Some would argue its progression-based system makes things a little too easy for college QBs and prevents them from developing pro skills.
Cal definitely fits the stereotypical profile of an air raid team.The Golden Bears ranked in the top eight in pass attempts in all three of Goff’s starting seasons, and the only teams to rank ahead of Cal in all three years were Leach’s Washington State and Texas Tech (where the air raid has become a cultural identity). Goff put up a gaudy 4,719 passing yards in 2015 while slightly disappointing many Cal fans.
They’ve ranked no higher than No. 97 in rushing attempts, despite the Bear Raid being meant to have more of a run/pass balance than Leach’s offenses.
In 2015, Cal’s offense ranked No. 13 in S&P+, while its defense ranked No. 84. Cal went 14-23 in the Goff/Dykes era, improving annually but showing few signs of significantly exceeding 2015’s 8-5 record any time soon.
But how does Goff measure up against his air raid predecessors?It’s hard to account for opponent quality with raw stats, but his 2015 passer rating of 161.2 would’ve ranked No. 5 on this list of 66 seasons by air raid QBs, behind the best years of Keenum, Beck, Smith, and Kolb. You could easily argue he faced better competition in the Pac-12 than others did, but there are other Pac-12 and SEC quarterbacks on that list who aren’t far behind.
NFL folks often say completion percentage and games started are the most telling college QB stats. Goff ranked No. 22, No. 36 and No. 62 in completion percentage in his three years. Smith’s best season ranked No. 2, Manziel’s No. 3, and various other air raid QBs cracked a season’s top 10. Goff has started many games, though.
But the NFL isn’t supposed to draft based on college stats, and scouts are apparently much higher on Goff than they were on any of those previous guys. Here’s Dan Kadar, who’s certainly smarter at this than I am:
Goff was an elite high school recruit [2013’s No. 15 pro-style QB] who has followed up on his promise.
Anyone who has watched Cal and its porous offensive lines has witnessed a tough player in the pocket who knows how to handle pressure. There is no better signal caller in this year’s draft at reading and manipulating a defense and working progressions. Some of the stick throws Goff made, especially in his junior season, were pure NFL throws that connected in tight windows and zipped through coverage.
If you can overlook a slender frame and those nine-inch hands, you have a complete quarterback. The arm strength and athleticism may not be off the charts, but they’re more than good enough.
Joe Montana comparisons are pretty ridiculous — and mostly lazy due to geographical and size similarities — but projecting him as a Matt Ryan-type quarterback is appropriate.
History shows it’s really hard to translate crazy productivity in this offense into NFL success.
If Goff is the exception, well, that’s pretty cool. Maybe there will be more.
That’s a pretty impressive (or perhaps unimpressive graph)…
NERamParticipantI have so much info, and comparisons / opinions on Goff and Wentz stored in my head, I apparently have changed my snoring cadence.
Instead of the traditional snnnnkkkgghh, wwwhewwww, I am now dreaming happily of draft day, and producing a new sound that now resembles snnnnggggoffff, wwhhennnnnntzzz.
I think that what I think, is, that I would be happier with choosing Wentz. If the 2 are really that close as far as being the “right pick” I’d like to have the one that has more perceived potential regarding the greater, long-term upside.
In other words, having the guy that is more “NFL ready” right out of the box is not as important to me as having someone that could also produce well initially, but also develop into something even greater down the road. So I’m not saying that a project is better than a plug and play QB right out of the gate, and I definitely do not want to wait 3 or more years waiting for a project to develop. And I don’t think Wentz is that type of project.
Some of the comments with Goff I haven’t been able to reconcile – one article said that he has quick feet, like a typewriter, and a comparison was made to Manning, I think. Another article said that that was not necessarily a good trait, as it doesn’t allow the most stable platform for throwing a pass.
Another article says that Goff has great pocket presence, but yet another one indicates that taking a majority of snaps from the shotgun as opposed to taking them from under center might have an effect on that. The advantage of taking a snap from the shotgun and being able to see the pre-snap defense all the way through the progression until the throw is made might be different than taking a snap from under center, dropping back to pass, and then turning his head back and re-focusing downfield.
I don’t know, all of this may be minutiae; journalistic fluff intent on keeping the suspense alive until draft day.
And you know as well as I, this comparison doesn’t end on draft day, it only accelerates into a longer phase. One game, or even one season wont tell us everything as far as who was the right guy. We have RG3 and Bradford as 2 recent examples who had a decent start, but have yet to continue their production effectively. For the next several years we’ll probably still be comparing stats, W/L’s, offenses, coaching changes, injuries, near wins and losses and comebacks on these guys.
But for me, right now, I’m hoping for Wentz. If its Goff, yeah, I’ll be disappointed, and will only hope that he does well and proves me wrong.
NERamParticipantBy the way–to further prove he is pushing his own agenda I offer THIS tweet:
Michael Silver @MikeSilver 21h21 hours ago
Michael Silver Retweeted DavidLehr
Actually, projecting Goff as No. 1 overall pick in November of 2014 was going out on a limb. Don’t hate, appreciate2014?
He said Goff #1 in 2014?
Now–of course he needs that to happen.
I rest my case.
Nice work, PA. Well done.
Were you one of the 17 with National Orientation?
“Still, it’s rather startling to see how far Wentz and Cook moved in opposite directions. A poll by the Journal Sentinel of 17 personnel men with national orientation reflects the change.”
April 18, 2016 at 10:21 pm in reply to: Path to the Draft one hour special Saturday at 8 PM ET solely about Goff/Wentz #42247NERamParticipantI think KW was alluding to the fact that the Rams pick will be expected to start immediately.
Yeah, agreed.
The part I was wrestling with was the Higher Ceiling part. Meaning that, (at least the way I took it) it’s better to take the “ready to go” guy than to pick a guy that might take some time to fully develop.
When in reality, in his specific case, the “developmental” guy turned out pretty well.
April 18, 2016 at 8:32 pm in reply to: Path to the Draft one hour special Saturday at 8 PM ET solely about Goff/Wentz #42243NERamParticipantJust got done watching a great one hour special on NFL Net dedicated to the drama of who the Rams should take.
To sum it up in three words – can’t go wrong
No wonder myself and most others on here are so confused on who we should take… Both of theses kids can play!!!
The things that stood out about Goff were his pocket presence and poise, his quick release, smart and very accurate, also he played much higher competition level.
Wentz on the other hand has a rocket arm, very smart, throws on the run better then most pros in the league right now, super athletic and highly competitive …I like how DJ compared him to Philip Rivers when it comes to getting fired up about the game and how he will lead from the jump.
At the end of the show, just to add more confusion they were asked who it will be and who it should be.
Kurt Warner loved Goff, and in my biased opinion, that holds a lot of weight … Says he is sick of the “higher ceiling” type argument and that he goes by what he sees and Goff is day one ready.
DJ like Wentz, but thinks it will be Goff. Says Wentz athleticism and drive are going to carry over to the NFL
Bucky says he likes Goff and says it will be Goff.
If you get a chance to watch this check it out. Good stuff.
“Kurt Warner loved Goff, and in my biased opinion, that holds a lot of weight … Says he is sick of the “higher ceiling” type argument and that he goes by what he sees and Goff is day one ready.”
Given the path that Kurt took to get to the level he achieved, I’m having trouble understanding this comment, or why he made it. It looks to me like he didn’t hit the league as “NFL ready”, and in fact benefitted greatly by the learning process he was afforded. Not a dig against Kurt, I love the guy. Just wondering if I’m missing something.
NERamParticipantTru Johnson was tasered too, i think.
I am in charge of tasering tsars and tapirs, btw.
…this is the deadest time of year, aint it.
Nothin goin on. I wish the draft was in early April
.w
vThis was a long time ago, so my memory could be a little foggier than normal, but I seem to recall some of your earlier works on tapirs and their urinary problems were released around this time of year, many seasons ago.
That dead time of year, following yet another losing season, and before the draft. That dull, dead, meaningless time zone that Ram fans all must pass through on their way to another season.
In doing so, you were able to take a story about nothing and make poor, emotionless, win-starved Ram fans forget their misery for a brief moment. You were the Board’s Seinfeld.
Thanks, Jerry.
NERamParticipantAsk wv, isn’t he in charge of tasers and tasering?
Oh, man. I thought he was in charge of tapirs and tapir-ing.
No?
NERamParticipantif you asked me last week i would a said don’t trade up.
but i’m starting to think that if goff is available at the 7th or 8th spot, rams should start making some calls.
despite his terrifyingly miniscule hands.
Well, you know, IR, it may just be destiny in the making.
I mean, the whole damn team just up and moved to go play near the La Brea Tar Pits. Wouldn’t it stand that the Rams should have a T Rex at QB???
April 7, 2016 at 5:44 pm in reply to: Bruce Arians finds NFL comparisons for three top QBs in draft #41585NERamParticipantHe should stay out of the sun.
Perhaps he lost his joli petit chapeau…
- This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by NERam.
April 7, 2016 at 5:32 pm in reply to: Mike Glennon should entice Rams, Jets, Broncos and Cowboys #41580NERamParticipant“So which teams make the most sense for Glennon? Let’s take a look across the league …
Los Angeles Rams: If Case Keenum is the answer, I’d love to know the question.”
Hard to argue against logic like that…
March 22, 2016 at 10:59 pm in reply to: Keenum remains starter for now (there's controversy around this) #40939NERamParticipantBy adding to it, can you now be penalized 15 yards for piling on
My penalty was to find a relevant Wagoner article and post it in this thread. That’s not that easy because it’s not like Wagoner writes something on EVERY Rams topic that comes up.
Ed Hochuli – “After review, there was no piling on. The poster formerly known as WV Ram stepped out of bounds by usurping Administrative rights and closing a thread down prematurely. Rams keep the ball, first down.”
March 22, 2016 at 8:55 pm in reply to: Keenum remains starter for now (there's controversy around this) #40933NERamParticipantOr do they just believe that if Keenum is the official starter, that means that the Rams are not going to look for another QB as long as Keenum is alive?
Yes that’s it right there. It’s not being helped by the fact that some venues misreported what Snead said a couple of days ago. He said CK would be the starter going into OTAs, and it got reported as “going into the season.”
Not trying to create controversy in a potentially controversial thread, but I think if you wanted to respond to Zooey, you should have done it before WV’s self proclaimed victory and ensuing thread closure. By adding to it, can you now be penalized 15 yards for piling on?
NERamParticipantHappy Birthday to the man from the Land of Many Lobsters.
February 12, 2016 at 5:59 pm in reply to: Browns indicate they'll cut Johnny Manziel March 9 when league year opens #38906NERamParticipantYou do know I wasn’t advocating it. Or predicting it.
I put that pic up solely for the icky shock value.
Oh, yes. I was in no way thinking that you were in favor of it.
I guess my point was that the icky shock value did its job. Seeing it just added one more dimension of opposition.
NERamParticipantBulgerized in the land of the Cheeseheads?
February 12, 2016 at 4:52 pm in reply to: Browns indicate they'll cut Johnny Manziel March 9 when league year opens #38896NERamParticipantI think the very idea sounds bad, and smells bad.
This here just looks bad.
I don’t know why, but the words “What, me worry?”keep playing in my head when I see this guy’s picture.
NERamParticipantHowever, I was born and raised in central Pennsylvania and what New Englanders don’t know about is pan haus, schnitz un kepp or fasnacht.
They don’t even know you’re supposed to eat pork and sauerkraut with mashed potatoes on New Year’s day?!
One standard that I try to maintain is to at least be able to pronounce what it is that I’m eating… 😉
Pan haus, schnitz un kepp or fasnacht, ok, I’ll admit that I needed to consult the Oracle of Google.
So it would appear that Pan Haus is basically boiling a hogs head, straining off the inedible parts, and then mixing with corn meal and then frying it. I did find this version online, from an individual named Zack, coincidentally from West Virginia. Had to chuckle as I thought to myself “I bet I know a guy from WV that doesn’t boil hogs heads…”
Jan 16, 2015
Pon Haus
by: Zack FlemingWhen we butchered our hogs in Eastern WV, we would always put the scraps, some of hide trimmings, and many organs in the cast iron pots under an open fire and cook until done. Nothing was wasted. This was then strained out and ground into pudding. The broth was then thickened with lots of corn meal and some flour, seasoned with salt and pepper and we added several “scoops” of the pudding meat, and cooked to reduce to an almost mush, then poured into loaf pans and cooled. Sliced and served fried as a breakfast meat usually with King syrup. The pudding was served on top of corn meal pancakes. Many local farmers still make pon haus to this day and at least 2 butcher shops in the Hagerstown, MD area sell to local stores.
Schnitz un kepp – Boiled ham with apples, in a dumpling? Ok, not bad. Forget the pronunciation qualification, I’d take a bite or 2.
Fasnacht – A German Donut? Automatically gets a free pass through the critics turnstile. Donuts are just generally good.
And as far as pork, sauerkraut and mashed potatoes? One of my favorite meals. Didn’t know there was a special day of consumption, but will keep it in mind.
New Years Day, you say. OK, perhaps a special meal celebrating next years NFC West title.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by NERam.
NERamParticipanti gotta say this is making me slightly nervous. let’s hope kelly has control over all personnel decisions and leaves this team in ruins.
Nah, don’t be worried. Rams have beaten Kap before, and can do it again.
Caught between Quinn, Ogletree, Brockers and The Donald, he will be squeezed like a freshman’s pimple…
NERamParticipant“you MUST have a one-legged-QB and a cross-eyed equipment
manager to win — why doesnt Fisher KNOW THAT??!!”Well because he’s living in the past.
And that’s not the way to do things in the NFL.
Unless of course Fisher wins a superbowl.
Then it will be, “well to win a superbowl you need an sub-standard coach who does not draft well and relies on antiquated approaches and whose entire OL gets injured every year— why doesnt Fisher KNOW THAT??!!”
lol
Tonight is lasagna night, so i have to log-off.
I bet you new-englandy-portlandia people dont
even know about lasagna. You proabaly
only eat clam chowders and red lobsters.w
vLasagna? I like lasagna. And, I am from NE. Southern NE, to be exact.
But still NE. So, I will bet you $5.00 that NE people, do, in fact, know about lasagna. And if $5.00 is too steep for you, a gentleman’s bet will suffice. Winner gets to pick next years QB not named Foles.
Now on to my real dilemma.
I have a grandchild named Payton. Spelled with an A, not an E.
And then, this same family gets a dog this summer, and decides to name it Cam. Real name is Cameron, but it only answers to Cam, for some reason.
So, what are the odds of having to choose between Payton or Cam.
I’m stuck.
However, I will watch the game. Isn’t there a law requiring every American to watch the Super Bowl?
NERamParticipantKnowing that, why do opposing teams not make more of an effort to jam them up at the snap, and try to disrupt that rhythm.
Just guessing, you can do that if you also have one of the league’s best pass rushes.
It’s the combination, not just one thing. Not just jamming, but beating the OL quickly too.
Remember in early 2014 when GW’s defense had to adjust to teams throwing quickly on them.
Yeah, apparently Denver’s D (which i have never watched)
is pretty special. They make it look easy,
but most D’s probly cant get that kind of pressure
that quickly.Ware and Vonn — Difficult to take them both away.
Which is why I keep squawking about Quinn.
Gotta have ‘both’ Q and AD.w
vAgree with both of you.
Having a top tier pass rush just puts the whipped cream & cherry on top, or in this specific case, purple welts on Brady’s body.
And yes, having both AD and Quinn will yield a top tier D. I fully believe that, with the rest of the D intact.
But even without a top tier pass rush, can not a D that jams receivers also benefit the pass rush? Can’t that extra 1 to 2 seconds disrupt the quick strike offense just enough to let the average pass rush get close enough to the QB that it throws off the timing and creates happy feet? I know ZN said it was a combination of jamming and rushing the passer, which I know is true. It was visible all game long. But applying even 1/2 of the equation should also have a positive impact, I would think.
I do remember multiple discussions around the pros and cons of playing the corners back, off the LOS. And the philosophy of conceding the short stuff & protecting against the long strike, with the hopes that the offense makes a mistake somewhere, during the possession. And if the O doesn’t make a mistake, then the D tightens up in the red zone, aided by a short field, with the hopes of giving up just 3 points, and not 7. Bend, don’t break. I get that.
Just with some QB’s, Brady being one of them, I’m not sure that laying back and allowing the receivers to catch short stuff all day long works to the benefit of the D. Once they get that rhythm started, confidence built up, and points on the board, its awful hard to stop them. And once in the red zone, Brady is too accurate. Not to mention trying to pull Gronk down after he’s caught a short pass and is now turning upfield with a full head of steam, basically untouched from the initial snap until he’s turned a short pass into a 30 yard completion.
I’m just thinking that for an offense like that, you hit em in the mouth hard, and throw off their timing. Getting a sack is great if the rush can get there, but hurries and close-call legal hits on the QB are pretty effective too.
Denver had a lot of success doing this. I just think other teams could have maybe had different outcomes as well, if they had taken away NE’s best player. Or player combos. Billy-boy has made a career out of doing that.
NERamParticipant“And the Broncos’ secondary aided the pass rush as well, jamming Edelman and Rob Gronkowski at the line of scrimmage and forcing Brady to hold onto the ball far longer than he wants to”.
I honestly don’t understand why more teams don’t do this when playing the Patriots.
It’s out there on film, its documented in media articles… Brady likes to get the ball out under 2 seconds, with those quick strikes to Edelman and Gronk. Knowing that, why do opposing teams not make more of an effort to jam them up at the snap, and try to disrupt that rhythm. Why do they let them quick strikes down the field all day long.
NERamParticipantThis brought a smile to my face.
w
vYup. I have felt strangely peaceful and happy since Sunday.
NERamParticipantThat’s a tough question. Not sure, myself.
Janoris isn’t being recognized as a shut down corner, yet. But there are some shades of that showing.
NERamParticipantSomewhere I seem to recall reading that the Rams needed 20 points per game to win. That was their magic number.
I just went through the Rams schedule last season.
If the Rams had scored exactly 20 points in every single game last season, they would have ended up with a record of 7-9.
As opposed to their actual record of 7-9.
DeMarco Farr stated that during one of the game’s broadcast this season. 20 points was the magic number…..
Check your math… Rams would be 9-7, potentially 10-6 if you count the Vikings game if the Rams score 20 in regulation.
20 points would’ve resulted in victories in Baltimore, Minny and vs Steelers.
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Oooh, an Algebra Battle
between JoeMad and Zooey.I love the offseason.
I doubt if i watch the SuperBowl
this year. Though I’d smile if it was a low-rated, old-school,
knockdown, mudbowl, game that ended 4 to 0.
In overtime.Next year the Rams will win ten games,
the Rams will make the playoffs,
and every poster on every board
will sing the praises of
Jeffrey Michael Fisher.w
vYes, it appears as though the elation of the Rams coming back to LA has caused poor Zooey to enter into drunken revelry, leading to the flawed algebraic calculation.
I personally think that the universe would function much more smoothly if people would come to geometric conclusions, as opposed to algebraic ones, btw.
Consider a simple right-triangular theory. 3 sides, 3 angles, pretty straight forward. Here is one that I used while trying to grasp this whole move back to LA thing. All it takes is 2 truths, and then the hypotenuse is formed automatically.
Side A – LA = Glitz.
Side B – Glitz rhymes with GRITS
Side C -And there you have it. The only possible hypotenuse that you can come to is that the Rams had to come back to LA.
No muss, no fuss, no algebraic equations and numbers to confound you. Just a pure alignment of the stars.
Life is actually pretty easy if you know how to massage the data… 😉
NERamParticipantPeyton’s stats didnt look impressive.
Looks like Defense and a game-managing-QB
can still win.w
vThought of the day.
Manning: 17/32 (53.125%), 145 (4.53 YPA), 2 TDs, 0 Ints, 3 sacks
Well, the thought of the day got me to thinking. So, here’s what I think.
A good D and a game-managing QB can win, but I’m also thinking that there has to be a little more output from the O than what the Rams were putting up.
Somewhere I seem to recall reading that the Rams needed 20 points per game to win. That was their magic number.
And, that’s what Denver put up yesterday. They just let it get a little toooooo close.
True but this wasn’t a good example to cite as support for that idea. Denver got lucky. They didn’t win the game as much as they didn’t lose it.
Yeah, they did get lucky. They had absolutely had no business giving up 2, not one, but 2, 4th down conversions on that last drive. 4th and 10 & 4th and 6, I believe. Geeze, major pucker time there.
NERamParticipantMade this game and outcome decidedly more enjoyable.
DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller played an incredible game, with incredible quickness.
NERamParticipantI, for one, am happy.
Very happy.
Quite happy, even.
NERamParticipantAlways will watch, with fervent hopes that they get pounded mercilessly into the ground.
If it turns out to be one-sided in favor of NE, then I will turn it off in disgust.
If it is close, I will watch it all the way through. Hope springs eternal.
If NE is getting pounded, not only will I watch it, I’ll probably record it for future viewing pleasure… 😉
NERamParticipant“I have heard that Snowden has
the contents of the Nittany-email
in his files — but Snowden said the contents are so shocking, so scandalous, that its better if the American public remains in the dark”.YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH…
Snowden was one of my favorite players, BTW. Gabrielonski to Snowden was a thing of beauty.
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