I guess this boils down to this for me: Do you want to see a good game, aside from your team winning, hopefully? I do. I don’t want to sabotage one team so mine wins. I want both teams to be able to give their all, their best, in a context that optimizes that.

Non-stop screaming prevents that. It tilts the field and, depending on the venue, can really screw up one team or the other.

Seriously, I just don’t get the rationale. A fan pays good money to see a game. In my case, I traveled across the entire country to see the Rams twice in San Fran. I want to see great football, period, and that takes both teams to make it happen. Yeah, I’m rooting hard for one of them to be victorious, but if the other team is handicapped for this or that reason, it taints the victory for me.

That’s my two cents, anyway.

We agree, ZN. I want to talk about anything but this.

Ironically, with the media’s insistence on endlessly replaying that no-call, that helped kill my previous sympathy, as did Payton’s reaction and the owner’s.

I’ll leave this one alone too.

Briefly back to the no-call. I understand anger and high emotions over an obvious missed call. But Saints and Rams fans should be able to agree to this: there were missed calls on that play that went against the Rams, too, and missed calls prior to it that went against the Rams. Even if we make the logical error in claiming one play can be decisive — it can’t possibly be — if the play were called to perfection, the Saints have to replay the down. Penalties offset.

To me, this is indisputable, no matter which team someone roots for. Number 75 clearly grabs hold of Donald’s face mask on that play. So the best case scenario for the Saints then becomes a do-over. That’s the rational way to view this, and, again, I can’t imagine that the Saints have fewer rational fans than any other team.

To be more specific. Note my previous take on Goff’s mechanics. Is that the “official” Rams’ view on the matter? Is that the official Rams fans’ view? No. It’s one of many takes among just Rams fans, and it was opposed by other Rams fans. There’s disagreement about this just among us.

Every year, we argue about the draft, free agency moves, who should be kept, who should be dumped, etc. etc. We argue about time management, run/pass ratios, lineups, personnel configurations. There is no one Rams fans line on any of these topics. How could there be one for the no-call, either among us or Saints fans? Which means, logically, you can’t just flip this on its head, if you change teams. Flip what? There isn’t any consensus to flip?

;>)

The Saint lineman clearly grabbed (and held) Donald’s facemask. If the play had been called in a perfect manner, with all no-calls turned into calls, penalties offset. Best case scenario for the Saints is a replay of the down.

So where do we go from here? I know it won’t happen, but the most egregious “no-call” right now is the media’s. Unless I missed it, no sports show has shown the video of the Saints lineman grabbing Donald’s facemask, nor have they shown what appears to be a tipped pass by Brockers.

(From other angles, it’s not so apparent that Brockers blocked it. But from at least one angle, it was).

To me, this is all in the media’s hands right now. And they’re likely to no-call the no-call on the Saints.

Zooey wrote:

I suspect that their emotional level is higher partly because of their brutal loss to the Vikings last year. Two terrible losses in the row.

I also think…and I haven’t seen anyone comment on this, so maybe it’s just me…but when I saw the play live, it didn’t look terrible. The replay they kept running was from behind the play, and depth perception is skewed from that angle. From that angle it looks awful. I rewatched the game last night, and…again…it looked more bang-bang than the replays. I would like to see it from some other angle, but apparently there isn’t one.

Anyway. The clear response for the Rams is to blow out the Patriots.

Agreed, Zooey. The chosen angle makes it obvious. The other one makes it look bang bang. A ref looking at it from one angle could easily make the no-call. But not the other.

Immediately following the game, I felt bad about it. I didn’t want the Rams to have even a remote chance for an asterisk on this win.

But after three days of endlessly moaning about the call, from far too many media outlets, I’ve changed my mind. To hell with it. The Rams won. They deserve to be in the Super Bowl. Efff the Saints.

If they had shown some class about this, and said it was one factor among a host of others, and they never should have let it come down to just one, I’d probably still feel some sympathy for their take on things. But not after Payton’s call to the NFL, and the owner’s letter, and the fans’ lawsuit, etc. etc.

A number of sports pundits have egged this on, too, and I think less of them now.

Bottom line: In any game, there will be hundreds of pivot points, so it’s impossible for any one of them to be “decisive.” And if you alter the course at any point prior to that no-call, the context of the game is altered and that play never happens, so it’s still not decisive.

Cherry picking is wrong in sports, politics, history, anywhere.

The sports world needs to move on.

Yeah, the D came up huge to hold the Saints to just six points on those two drives. That might have been the game right there, in a sense.

And, yes, Goff made some great plays, keeping drives alive. He was clutch for most of the game.

Reynolds impressed me too. He runs hard after the catch, and is a load to take down. Not the best pure hands guy, but when he hauls it in, he runs with violence. I think he has to be among the best backup receivers in the league, and the Rams did well to draft him.

Gotta re-sign Fowler. He’s young enough to give four or five more years, all in his prime.

Everett is improving as well, and I like Higbee. The Rams, basically, don’t have that many holes to fill for next season. If they win the SB, they have a very good chance of a repeat. Vegas thinks so as well.

So, is it a revenge game against the Pats? Or the two best offenses, head to head?

I think the Rams can beat the Saints, especially if they do more of what they did Sunday. I agree with so many others: love that two-headed monster of Anderson and Gurley. Someone needs to find Timmerman and his buddies and see if they’ll elect CJ a member of their group. What was it? The donut brothers?

;>)

He is such a tough little runner, fearless, bowls defenses over, north or south. And he looks out of shape!! Imagine what he could do if he were in peak condition!!

(A must re-sign for the Rams, obviously. What a great, great pickup!)

Has anyone else noticed that the Saints seem to have lost their offensive magic a wee bit in the last few weeks? They’re still winning. But they’re not crushing their opponents. Whereas the Rams seem over their hiccup.

It’s gonna be a doozy!!

zn wrote:

InvaderRam wrote:

only saw the end. but man the stat line on anderson looks good.

i’m convinced the running game can be better than before.

I agree about how good CJA looked, I don’t think he had one single carry for a loss

But just a caution. ARZ ranks 31st in run defense.

After Sunday’s game, it may have dropped to 33rd.

To give you a sense how bad that is, Rams run D ranks 21st.

As you guys know, I always look for the silver lining, the bright side of life, the sunshine between the rain, etc. etc. . . . so, um . . .

;>)

The Rams would be even worse in run defense standings if not for the O being so good this year. Teams mostly had to pass against them to catch up, so they abandoned the ground game. At least some teams did.

That said, it does appear they’ve made a serious effort to fix this in recent games. The D is playing better overall, and better against the run. Just in time for the playoffs.

I like their chances.

wv wrote:

Mahomes has been great, Brees has been great, some others.

But they have great supporting casts.

I think Aaron Donald has been doin it alone out there, week after week. Double teams, triple teams, down after down. With the Rules protecting offense and QBs.

Take him off the Rams and I dunno if they even have a winning record. They might be 8-8 or somethin.

Its very close, but I would vote for Aaron Donald. Not because I’m a ram fan, just because of his play.

w
v

I agree with all of that. I think he should win, too.

But I’m starting to think the Rams have another guy, on offense, who should be considered on a team basis. Not MVP of the league, necessarily. But MVP of the Rams.

Robert Woods. I think he’s special, and he isn’t getting anywhere near enough credit. IMO, one of the most important FA acquisitions in a long, long time.

But, yeah, Donald is HOF caliber, easily. He should be first ballot. Too bad Quinn got hurt and they let him go. The two of them together would have brought back visions of the Fearsome Foursome. Deacon Jones and Merlin. Different styles, of course. But the same effect.

Hope all is well in the mountain state.

That was good. Informative. Serious discussion, on point.

NFL-focused TV shows seem not to do that anymore. They want to “entertain” us, and seem to have a very low opinion of our intelligence these days.

Going down memory lane a bit, I remember really liking Frank Gifford’s pregame show when I was a kid. Serious, intelligent, covered everything of import, at least to me. This was before he joined MNF. I also really liked Brookhiser and Summarall on the games themselves. They never tried to dumb things down for the audience and made the games seem essential, dramatically relevant. If memory serves, and it often doesn’t, I think CBS dumped Brookhiser because he questioned the refs in one game. There was probably a lot more to it than that, but I was greatly disappointed when they dumped him. I think Madden replaced him, and that may have been a turning point for the quality of coverage.

Madden “entertained” the audience. He treated the audience as if it couldn’t handle serious discussion of the game.

The morning show on NFL network is unwatchable for me, because it’s all “entertainment” now. Very low expectation that the audience can handle anything above a third grade level, it seems.

Oh, well.

Again, good podcast.

I’m forgetting exactly which QBs do this really well, but it really does tend to kill the pass-rush. They basically get the snap and almost in the same motion, pass it. Usually quick crossing patterns. I just don’t see the Rams doing this, though, yes, Goff/McVay have tried shorter passes, and faster drop backs at times.

But that one-motion thing? I just don’t remember seeing it, and it’s almost always really effective against pass-rushing terrors — up the middle or from the edge.

It needs to be incorporated into the offense, with or without jumbo sets, though I think it would be most effective with at least an extra lineman.

Looking ahead to next year, I think the Rams seriously need an upgrade at center, and I’d prefer Blythe as a backup, though he’s played well overall. Sullivan, however, is probably the weak-link, and Whitworth (37) tends to decline as the season goes on, which is understandable. It may be too much for one offseason, but the Rams need help at LT, C and G, IMO — and better depth at wideout. On defense, it’s even worse: DT, ILB, OLB, corner and safety. I have no idea how this can be done under the cap, and they don’t have the draft picks, so it’s gonna take some real magic from the GM on down. Perhaps a miracle or two.

All of that said, I’m still very high on this team, present and future, etc.

Lots of good points in this thread. Taken together, it seems kinda obvious that it’s a lot of things. Injuries, declining o-line play, Goff making bad decisions at key times, some stubbornness when it comes to personnel groupings and playcalls, etc.

Not sure which matters most, or more, or more often, etc. etc. But it’s pretty safe to say that, at least on offense, if the line isn’t protecting the QB, the offense will struggle.

Which makes me think of this: Theoretically, at least, making major acquisitions to upgrade talent should — it should — also improve depth. Again, this strikes me as obvious. If you can upgrade a position, you move your former starter to “depth,” so, logically, you’ve just improved it. But I think McVay may have offset that somewhat by — especially along the o-line — keeping fewer guys for that unit that he should have, given such a long season. Same may hold for wideouts. And when two of your upgrades are past their primes, with one pushing 40, this is especially risky.

Bringing in key guys for upgrades only improves “depth” if you decide to keep adequate numbers there, and work them in to the degree possible. Play them when the score allows this. I don’t think the Rams did, and I think they could have brought in more competition last offseason too. Wideouts and o-line, primarily.

I think it’s tough to try to find a common denominator for the two losses, primarily because the victors are so incredibly different. But, the relatively “quiet” performance of Donald is probably as good as any.

My thing, however, at this point in the season — and I’ve watched all but one game — is this:

The Rams are making a huge mistake by keeping to one personnel grouping for the vast majority of their offensive plays. It’s especially a mistake when they face a good to great defense, and that kind of team seems to become even harder to defeat in the playoffs.

I’ve noticed announcers in pretty much every game — at least until Chicago — rave about the deceptive simplicity of the Rams’ offense. Three wide outs, single back, for more than 90% of the calls. The announcers seem to love this. Me? I hate the simplicity and think it’s a serious mistake.

IMO, whenever the Rams face a team with a really good pass-rush, and/or one with a great defense overall, they need to change up their personnel groupings. Big time. They also need to do this when it looks like the passing game is being stopped. Go to several other options . . . like, one or two additional O-line guys, two tight ends, a D-line guy as fullback — I’d use a second-stringer for that (Tanzel Smart, perhaps), etc. etc. I’d love to see the Rams stack the line with hogmollies and run Gurley, again and again, then do the play-action, if it makes sense at that point. Set it up. You can’t set up play-action when you’re not running the ball, or can’t, and the Rams oftentimes fail at running the ball because they won’t go away from their three-wideouts.

They need to show all kinds of different looks to the defense, especially when they face a really good one, or are having trouble offensively for any reason. Change things up, and rely on physics. Mass is likely more effective in moving the defense than skinny wideouts.

;>)