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  • in reply to: When can we conclude that dark matter does not exist? #62494
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    What you’ve described isn’t in the same universe as “conspiracy.” You’ve simply described political opposition to reactionary Catholic doctrine. And Podesta’s own words — and, again, he’s a practicing Catholic — make it sound like this opposition is half-hearted and disorganized.

    When you call something a “conspiracy to foment strife,” you’re saying it’s something sinister, illegal, secretive and malicious. What you’ve described, instead, is none of those things. It’s garden-variety political opposition, utilizing the First Amendment, and it sounds all too weak, disorganized and ineffective, which Podesta implies himself.

    I’m Roman Catholic, you’re an atheist. There is great concern with the statements Pope Francis has made in regards to previous doctrine within the laity and clergy. Since that is true regarding Pope francis I assure you it is true of the position and actions of one John Podesta.

    Great concern by whom, BNW? Just conservative Catholics. That’s it. The majority of Catholics don’t agree with right-wing positions on the vast majority of issues. You’re in the minority, and your own pope doesn’t agree with you, either, on most things.

    Podesta’s views align far more closely with the majority of Catholics. So why would he even need to set up a “conspiracy to foment strife in the Catholic Church”? All he needs to do is voice his opinions, which are shared by a majority of Catholics, in the full light of day. There is no need for any secret, back-door, sinister and malicious plan. Ironically, it’s right-wing Catholics who are far more likely to need that. Demographics are against you, not people like Podesta.

    Beyond all of that, and aside from the obvious paranoia in play, right-wing media is building up the Dems and folks like Podesta to an absurd degree, and making mountains out of molehills via those email leaks. They didn’t display powerful super-villains, capable of wreaking havoc on America. They showed the most mundane, everyday things imaginable, the same kinds of things you would find in GOP email exchanges, in fact.

    In short, the main reason I responded to your posts here, BNW, is this: Just trying to get you to think that maybe, just maybe, your media sources have blown this stuff up waaaaay out of proportion to its actual impact. You believe the media does this to Trump all the time, right? I just wish you would apply at least the same level of skepticism when it comes to these kinds of reports.

    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Except Assange has always said the emails were not from Russia or in any way connected to Russia. Oops! Sure hope Trump doesn’t get suckered by the neocons.

    So we have different accounts of what happened. Who are you going to believe? The guy who decided to leak NOTHING from Republicans and ONLY from the Dems? And NOTHING from Wall Street and Corporate American and ONLY from the Dems? Or more than a dozen intel agencies, who don’t generally get along, often can’t stand the sight of each other, fight over turf constantly, but in this case agree?

    I find it interesting how the same exact conservatives — especially in the media — who screamed for Assange’s head for years and years suddenly think he’s a hero.

    The right: making the world safer for hypocrites since 1789.

    Assange leaked what he had. He said he would have leaked info against the republicans and Trump too if he had it.

    We don’t know what info he has at all. We can choose to believe him or not. We can choose to believe those dozen plus intel agencies or not. Or something in between. Believe this, but not that, etc. etc. But we have no idea what info Assange has on Republicans.

    But let’s go with your premise. Let’s say he ONLY had info on the Dems. That tells you something too. That tells you he and his sources selected the Dems to hack, and NOT the GOP. Right off the bat, that shows ginormous bias and radically skews everything that follows. I worked in Internet tech support for fifteen years, and I can guarantee you that his sources could have gotten info from the GOP too, if they wanted it.

    So, anyway you look at it, the intent appears to be to hurt the Dems and help the GOP — including Trump.

    I despise BOTH parties, so I would have loved to have seen Wikileaks shine a light on both of them. But since they didn’t do that, and they avoided shining a light on the corporate world as well, I don’t trust them in the slightest. Their motives, Assange’s motives, appear to be nothing but partisan. And they also chose to help the greater of the two evils, not even the lesser, so it makes it even worse, from my perspective.

    In short, I don’t trust Assange. You do. Oh, well.

    in reply to: Obama the Brat. #62491
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Obama has had years to address Russian hacking but only does so with less than 3 weeks before Trump takes office? Obama does so by a militaristic response? Nobel Peace Prize winner too. Beyond pathetic.

    BTW we as in the US lead the world in hacking. Our government demands a back door key to every software program to make it easy to “hack”. Better word is lazy. Other governments and criminals have to work to hack the programs. If our government wouldn’t insist upon the creation of the back door key then that avenue of hacking wouldn’t exist. Too bad that story doesn’t generate any interest in the MSM.

    We have no idea what he’s done about cyber attacks during his tenure. That’s going to remain secret, as it will under Trump, for a long time. I would prefer sunshine as a disinfectant, with all sides and parties and corporations removed from the shadows. But that’s not how things work, tragically.

    As for the most recent revelations? Obama says he didn’t think he should have put his thumb done on the scales before the election, and I believe him. This is consistent with his general history of never going on offense and seeking compromise and conciliation instead. You should thank him, not bash him. He did your candidate a major favor by basically recusing himself until now.

    There are a multitude of things to criticize Obama for, and I don’t like his policies. As mentioned, he’s governed as a conservative in the true sense of that word. He’s governed, with rare exceptions, as an Eisenhower Republican. That said, this phantom (parallel universe) Obama created by the right, the one that projects the right’s own pettiness, vindictiveness, lust for power and authoritarian tendencies onto him, has always been absurd. He’s not that guy. He’s never been that guy. That’s just an invention by right-wing media and politicians.

    The real Obama tends to cave. Again, Trump is the person far more likely to do what you claim Obama has done.

    in reply to: When can we conclude that dark matter does not exist? #62487
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Heres an article from the Catholic News Service-

    http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2016/leaked-emails-show-hostility-to-catholic-church-some-say.cfm

    Podesta admits conspiracy and owns it. From the CNS article-

    Other emails leaked by WikiLeaks included an 2012 email to Podesta from Sandy Newman, president of Voices for Progress. “This whole controversy with the bishops opposing contraceptive coverage, even though 98 percent of Catholic women, and their conjugal partners, have used contraception, has me thinking,” said Newman. “There needs to be a Catholic Spring, in which Catholics themselves demand the end of a Middle Ages dictatorship and the beginning of a little democracy and respect for gender equality in the Catholic Church.
    “Is contraceptive coverage an issue around which that could happen?” he asked in a Feb. 10, 2012, email.
    In response to Newman’s question, Podesta tells him: “We created Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good to organize for a moment like this. But I think it lacks the leadership to do so now. Likewise Catholics United. Like most Spring movements, I think this one will have to be bottom up.”

    That is a conspiracy, def. conspiracy- any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

    ________

    BNW, here’s the definition of conspiracy:

    con·spir·a·cy
    kənˈspirəsē/
    noun
    noun: conspiracy; plural noun: conspiracies

    a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
    “a conspiracy to destroy the government”
    synonyms: plot, scheme, plan, machination, ploy, trick, ruse, subterfuge; informalracket
    “a conspiracy to manipulate the results”
    the action of plotting or conspiring.
    “they were cleared of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice”
    synonyms: plotting, collusion, intrigue, connivance, machination, collaboration; treason
    “conspiracy to commit murder”

    What you’ve described isn’t in the same universe as “conspiracy.” You’ve simply described political opposition to reactionary Catholic doctrine. And Podesta’s own words — and, again, he’s a practicing Catholic — make it sound like this opposition is half-hearted and disorganized.

    When you call something a “conspiracy to foment strife,” you’re saying it’s something sinister, illegal, secretive and malicious. What you’ve described, instead, is none of those things. It’s garden-variety political opposition, utilizing the First Amendment, and it sounds all too weak, disorganized and ineffective, which Podesta implies himself.

    in reply to: When can we conclude that dark matter does not exist? #62479
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I appreciate the comments above.

    For me, the evidence for a creating force is obvious in the way so much of nature “fits together.” In other words, nature itself would not exist unless millions of small functions came together at once, that is were designed to fit together. That does not prove anything, but for me it is enough explanation.

    I can see that. I felt that way about the universe once I rejected Christianity too. Was “agnostic” about the existence of the Divine, but could never return to a belief in a “personal god” who interceded on our behalf. Too much evil in the world. Too much suffering. Too much inequality, etc. etc. And, far too little rhyme or reason for one person’s journey versus another’s.

    So, basically, “deism” seemed to work for me, more or less. At least for another decade or so. But then reading more about evolution, and the way the universe formed, I no longer really saw the need for even “the god of the philosophers,” Spinoza’s god, Jefferson’s, etc. Nature really didn’t need a guiding hand. Evolution took care of that. Plus, the argument that “Well, this all had to come from somewhere. It couldn’t have come from nothing, so there must be a god.” Well, then, where did that god come from, if not nothing?

    Infinite regress, etc. etc.

    Interesting subject. Way back in the day, it was made even better with a little help from Nature.

    ;>)

    Happy New Year, NMR.

    If there is evil, is there not good? What determines our sense of evil and good if our existence is really just a random event? If everything is random, there shouldn’t be an evil or good. It just “is.”

    And a grand and wonderful New Year to you Billy.

    Well, there really isn’t evil and good. There are events, behaviors, people, etc that we as a society might classify as evil or good based on our perspective at that moment in history. But good and evil are in the eye of the beholder and change over time. An over simplistic example would be that burning a witch was once considered good. Now, not so much.

    Nittany, that’s well said. Basically what I was going after, but in far fewer words than my own attempt . . . and the board likely thanks you for that difference.

    ;>)

    Speaking of witches. I’m including them in my new novel, but more as a way to throw the reader off the scent. A temporary distraction of sorts, and to help make larger points about “witch hunts” in general.

    Really interesting book: The Witches: Salem, 1692. It took some time to get used to her style in this one, which was different from two other books I’ve read by her — on Franklin and Cleopatra. Both very good, too.

    in reply to: Obama the Brat. #62478
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Trying his best to saddle Trump with a war with Russia. So pathetic.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2531054/america-special-forces-russian-border-lithuania-obama-putin/

    ___________________________________________

    What I find even more disturbing is his approach to exiting the Presidency (assuming he doesn’t do something really childish, such as start a major war and refuse to exit the Presidency because of a national emergency).

    He is setting up very uncomfortable situations for Trump to “correct” and at the same time gives indication that he is going to be active in the political world and disrupt whatever he can. This has not been the tradition.
    IMO, this approach is only possible because most of the traditional media support the outgoing President’s positions and viewpoints. I don’t think the media is split 50-50 like most of the country.

    That problem with that view, IMO, is that Obama hasn’t done any of the things BNW claims — and the article he cites doesn’t support his assertion. He’s also claiming to be able to read Obama’s mind, know his motives, know why Obama does what he does.

    That’s just projection. It has no basis in reality.

    And there is zero logic or evidence behind the idea that Obama would do any of this just to get back at Trump, or that he is, in fact, trying to go to war with Russia. Though, judging from the way Trump personalizes everything, and thinks the world revolves around him and only him, I can see Trump doing this to others. That’s his history, not Obama’s.

    One of the biggest legitimate criticisms of Obama is that he doesn’t go on offense. He tries far too hard to get along with others and avoid confrontations. I see him as being far too willing to compromise and back down and cave, especially to Republicans. As for going against tradition? No president-elect in my lifetime has ever been as disruptive as Trump. He’s basically decided that his presidency started immediately after the election, and not on January 21th.

    Ironically, the person BNW describes isn’t Obama. It’s Trump.

    in reply to: When can we conclude that dark matter does not exist? #62476
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I appreciate the comments above.

    For me, the evidence for a creating force is obvious in the way so much of nature “fits together.” In other words, nature itself would not exist unless millions of small functions came together at once, that is were designed to fit together. That does not prove anything, but for me it is enough explanation.

    I can see that. I felt that way about the universe once I rejected Christianity too. Was “agnostic” about the existence of the Divine, but could never return to a belief in a “personal god” who interceded on our behalf. Too much evil in the world. Too much suffering. Too much inequality, etc. etc. And, far too little rhyme or reason for one person’s journey versus another’s.

    So, basically, “deism” seemed to work for me, more or less. At least for another decade or so. But then reading more about evolution, and the way the universe formed, I no longer really saw the need for even “the god of the philosophers,” Spinoza’s god, Jefferson’s, etc. Nature really didn’t need a guiding hand. Evolution took care of that. Plus, the argument that “Well, this all had to come from somewhere. It couldn’t have come from nothing, so there must be a god.” Well, then, where did that god come from, if not nothing?

    Infinite regress, etc. etc.

    Interesting subject. Way back in the day, it was made even better with a little help from Nature.

    ;>)

    Happy New Year, NMR.

    If there is evil, is there not good? What determines our sense of evil and good if our existence is really just a random event? If everything is random, there shouldn’t be an evil or good. It just “is.”

    And a grand and wonderful New Year to you Billy.

    This is just my own view. In no way do I expect others to follow, etc. etc.

    I don’t see “evil” or “good” as separate entities, or gods, or manifestations of gods, or Platonic essences, etc. etc. I see them as things people do to one another, and the perceptions and feelings that engenders. We choose how we define those things. We choose. No one else.

    To me, “evil” and “good” come solely from within us, not outside us. And we use those words because we humans constantly feel the need to make sense of things, to order the chaos, the find patterns and structure in what is really a completely indifferent universe. This reality is something we can’t stand, consciously and/or sub-consciously. We can’t stand the idea that the universe wasn’t made for us, and we aren’t the center of it, and there is no purpose to our lives beyond what we create.

    It’s all on us. It’s all up to us. All “meaning” comes from us — with regard to the world itself and our place within it and so much more. We are all writers and readers of fiction, when it comes to that. We create new fictions and/or accept the fictions we’ve been taught, primarily because it helps us survive and navigate and manage our way through this world.

    The reasons we do need this, the reasons we feel we must, are complex. But I think a great deal of it is genetic, biological. We’re born with these needs. The rest is nurture, socialization, indoctrination, etc. Both/And. Nature and Nurture.

    So, again, going back to “evil” and “good,” I think that is just what we call the things humans do to one another, and the reactions to all of that. It all comes from within us, as did all the gods and goddesses, which we alone invented. We alone created “god” in our own image, not the reverse. We alone, of all animal species, as far as we know, feel the need to do this . . .

    (More on this later. I don’t want to make this post too long . . .)

    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Except Assange has always said the emails were not from Russia or in any way connected to Russia. Oops! Sure hope Trump doesn’t get suckered by the neocons.

    So we have different accounts of what happened. Who are you going to believe? The guy who decided to leak NOTHING from Republicans and ONLY from the Dems? And NOTHING from Wall Street and Corporate American and ONLY from the Dems? Or more than a dozen intel agencies, who don’t generally get along, often can’t stand the sight of each other, fight over turf constantly, but in this case agree?

    I find it interesting how the same exact conservatives — especially in the media — who screamed for Assange’s head for years and years suddenly think he’s a hero.

    The right: making the world safer for hypocrites since 1789.

    in reply to: When can we conclude that dark matter does not exist? #62453
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    As for the idea, in another post, that “liberals” are the source of the denial of this or that religious beliefs, we have again an example of how damaging simple partisanship can be. It deals in ludicrously broad generalizations. There are after all religious liberals and leftists, just as there are agnostic or atheistic conservatives. Sweeping generalizations like that are just simply completely ineffectual and usually based on mammoth distortions of the real world.

    Sure we all know how treasured the religious democrats are within the democrat party. Religious liberals even more so given the wikileaks email in which the Hildabeast campaign was conspiring to foment strife in the Roman Catholic church. Such a pious bunch!

    I know this is hopeless. But, nowhere in any of the leaked emails is there even a whiff of what you describe. “Conspiring to foment strife in the Roman Catholic church”? Via an email exchange by two people? Jennifer Palmieri, a practicing Catholic, and John Halpin had what they thought was a private conversation about the reasons why some conservatives choose Catholicism over Protestant Evangelical churches. Two people. Private conversation. The comments were mild beyond belief, and you think it’s a “conspiracy”?

    Oh, and Podesta is a practicing Catholic, too. Though he wasn’t a part of the exchange.

    Can you please demonstrate how their words equal a conspiracy against the Roman Catholic church? Their exact words. Not right-wing, freak-out, Op-Ed translations of their words. Their exact words, in context, please.

    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    As a leftist, I’m kinda baffled when I read other leftists seemingly defending Putin and Russia. He’s the king of the oligarchs, and likely the world’s richest man, and his Russia is hard right, ideologically.

    We both have capitalist empires, and I see both of them as illegitimate entities. But Russia is now what our own far right would probably want us to be. Even more anti-democratic, anti-labor, anti-environment than we already are. More capitalist-crazed as well.

    I really don’t get it.

    I don’t know who started this cyberwar, and it really doesn’t matter. We’re both guilty. We’re both wrong. We’re both trying to extend empire in so many ways, and we both keep swatting at each other’s beehives. But that doesn’t mean we have to automatically assume that our government is lying about the other guy, and believing them in this case isn’t an endorsement of American policies we reject.

    To me, it’s just a logical progression of this game of thrones between us. Two very powerful state actors, with one having the edge economically and militarily, while the other has the edge in the cyber arena. They’re going to take advantage of that and the fact that we’re a much softer target than they are.

    It has nothing to do with whiny Dems, at least from my perspective. Clinton lost primarily because she was a poor candidate, couldn’t connect with enough fence-sitters to matter, and her party, the Dems, have played the centrist card for too long. Plus, Bill Clinton’s sexual history basically cancelled out the Access Hollywood tapes for enough people to change their votes. Pretty much any other Dem would have whipped Trump just on that issue alone. It took a Clinton to snatch defeat from the mouth of victory, etc. etc.

    Yeah, I think Putin wanted to put Trump in the White House, and all of his moves regarding his cabinet to be make that seem even more logical. Again, saying so doesn’t mean one buys Democratic Party excuses, or trusts American intel blindly. It just adds up. It’s just the logical progression of this game of thrones.

    in reply to: When can we conclude that dark matter does not exist? #62438
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I appreciate the comments above.

    For me, the evidence for a creating force is obvious in the way so much of nature “fits together.” In other words, nature itself would not exist unless millions of small functions came together at once, that is were designed to fit together. That does not prove anything, but for me it is enough explanation.

    I can see that. I felt that way about the universe once I rejected Christianity too. Was “agnostic” about the existence of the Divine, but could never return to a belief in a “personal god” who interceded on our behalf. Too much evil in the world. Too much suffering. Too much inequality, etc. etc. And, far too little rhyme or reason for one person’s journey versus another’s.

    So, basically, “deism” seemed to work for me, more or less. At least for another decade or so. But then reading more about evolution, and the way the universe formed, I no longer really saw the need for even “the god of the philosophers,” Spinoza’s god, Jefferson’s, etc. Nature really didn’t need a guiding hand. Evolution took care of that. Plus, the argument that “Well, this all had to come from somewhere. It couldn’t have come from nothing, so there must be a god.” Well, then, where did that god come from, if not nothing?

    Infinite regress, etc. etc.

    Interesting subject. Way back in the day, it was made even better with a little help from Nature.

    ;>)

    Happy New Year, NMR.

    in reply to: When can we conclude that dark matter does not exist? #62431
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Adding a bit more:

    What I discovered at age nine, and then refined a great deal as I grew older, is that “god” is not really the variable. We are. So rather than trying to solve for “X” as “god,” we need to look at ourselves and figure that out.

    As in, since it’s the case that visions and versions of “god” have almost zero consistency through time, and change radically depending upon where and when we’re born, and all the various socialization and indoctrination we go through . . . . that also tells me there can’t be some timeless, deathless thing out there for us to discover, especially not one who demands obedience and worship. Especially if that timeless, deathless being is all-powerful and all-knowing. No such being would ever allow such a chaos of belief, such a babel of perceptions regarding his or her divinity. He, she or it would have made themselves known to us from the beginning, and it wouldn’t have mattered if we were from the Middle East, Africa, Europe, Asia, Polynesia, the Americas, etc. etc. . . . We would have unity at least about that.

    Which leads me to the mystics, whom I’ve studied in the past as well. Ironically, with exceptions, they do find a kind of unity across time and space. Mystics from most of the major religions started out accepting the earthly divisions between East and West, North and South, that we’re generally taught. But they almost always ended up casting all of that aside once they reached their journey’s end. With few exceptions, their ultimate revelation was that “all is one” and that there is no “one true god.”

    in reply to: When can we conclude that dark matter does not exist? #62429
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Using the same logic evident here, I have a question:

    Can we conclude that God does not exist?

    There’s a lot of indirect evidence that an intelligent force could be behind at least much of what we see and detect, and many people have experienced unexplained occurrences in their lives that are difficult to explain. Other than our minds, we don’t have detectors that can find spiritual particles out there, just the same that no one has developed a way to detect dark matter.

    Yet, with the logical comparisons, it seems many people have an easier time accepting the existence of dark matter than the existence of God.

    Why is that? What is the logical difference here?

    IMO, NMR, it’s impossible to answer your question because there isn’t any agreement on what “god” is. Across time and space, humans have had a gazillion different versions/visions of him, her, it, etc. and that alone, just the multiplicity of those conceptions of the divine, etc. etc. make it impossible to even start the search. We’d have to agree on the definition of “god” first, and the 7.3 billion humans on earth now, and the billions who have already passed on, don’t.

    In short, how can you find “proof” of something without definition?

    Personally, I don’t believe in a “god” of any kind, though I once did. I was raised Methodist, but then had a revelation at the age of nine while reading mythology. That revelation led to serious study of comparative myth and religion, and I’ve never looked back. I realized if there is such a multiplicity of conceptual beliefs, and myriad definitions of gods and goddesses, him, her, it, then no one vision/version could possibly be right — much less “the one true god.” It all depended upon our various cultures and indoctrination, our time and place, our birth lottery, etc. etc. Change that and we believe in something completely different, or in no deities at all.

    As in, there is no “X” to solve for, therefore no “proof” of its existence is possible.

    Add to that, the absurd nature of most religious texts, the physical impossibility of the bulk of their stories through time, and the fact that, especially when it comes to the three monotheisms of the Levant, no one really should even want these monsters to exist (as depicted) . . . I, personally, find the search for proof to be futile and contrary to the idea of “faith” to begin with. But to each their own, etc.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    in reply to: Nearly 900 Hate Incidents #62369
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    . It stands up to scrutiny and the work is done by the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has a sterling reputation.

    .

    —————-
    I agree. I’m a big fan of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Course, no-one is going to change anyone’s mind about this stuff.

    99 percent of the Voters went for Hildabeast or TrumpaBeast.
    One percent went for the only candidate who supported actual, real, Social Justice.
    (now of course some of that voting pattern had to do with lesser-evil strategy etc — but even if we account for that we probly end up with 90 percent of the voting public preferring Hildabeast or Trumpabeast.)

    So, when a society is ‘that’ propagandized — 90 percent.
    When only 10 percent or so, supports actual, real, social justice — I cannot say there is much, if any, hope.

    Maybe a little. A tiny tiny bit of hope.

    w
    v

    Well, I guess I need to work a bit harder on my New Year’s resolution.

    ;>)

    Anyway, for what it’s worth, WV, that tiny bit of hope gets a boost from this fact: Nearly half the electorate didn’t vote at all, so, in a sense, we still don’t know what a “majority” of Americans really think or desire regarding “social justice,” at least as far as voting goes.

    And it reminds me of something else, which I bump into when I talk with Clinton supporters. This idea of counterfactuals, which are incredibly limited and cherry-picked by all “sides” in our political debates.

    As in, they’ll say, “If only the Bernie voters and the Stein voters had cast their vote for HRC instead, we wouldn’t have Trump in power.”

    Well, that may be true. But it’s also true that if we don’t cherry-pick and limit our counterfactuals, and expand the “what ifs” a bit further, we could just as easily say:

    “If all the Democrats who voted for Hillary had voted Green Party or Socialist instead, Trump wouldn’t be the president.”

    And we would have social justice, environmental protection and peace as the main elements of American public policy in 2017 — for the first time in our history.

    in reply to: Seconding Dak, Happy New Year, all! #62366
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Happy New Year to you as well, Dak, ZN and WV.

    And on this, Dak:

    I don’t have a New Year’s Resolution this year. But, I am compelled to follow the mainstream media news for the first time in my life. I’m reading it daily to see how they treat the President-elect and his party in power. That will give me clues as to how far down the road to fascism we will venture.

    I have no doubts in my mind that Trump’s rise to power has most of the hallmarks of a fascist coup, that his hate-filled, xenophobic, racist and incredibly bellicose rallies were all too similar to the Nazis. That said, I also think we’ve had a kind of fascism lite for long long time, if one sees fascism as right-wing, corporate control of government — the standard definition boiled down. So it’s not really a “coup” per se. More like a slide further right from where we were already.

    But Trump, as mentioned above, has decided not to even try to hide the corporate ownership of government, and has doubled down on that, putting multiple billionaires in charge, multiple lobbyists, multiple CEOs, to rule the roost. I mean, who would have thought anyone would have the nerve to put the CEO of a fast-food restaurant chain in charge of Labor issues in America? And one who opposes minimum wage increases and favors robots? Or Rex Tillerson, the CEO of Exxon Mobil, as Secretary of State? Or the lunatic Flynn in charge of national intel?

    Coupla good articles on his new cabinet:

    Climate deniers, conspiracists and one-percenters: Trump’s cabinet of characters The president-elect plans to surround himself with enemies of the environment, billions of dollars in net worth and people who are against their own agencies

    Schooled on Benghazi and Pizzagate, Trump team is heavy on conspiracy theorists

    Anyway . . . there’s always the prospect that the Rams are going to be amazingly good in 2017, with a brand new coach, Goff and Gurley playing at an All-Pro level, the defense Top Five, and rainbows and unicorns on the horizon.

    We can still dream, right?

    in reply to: Seconding Dak, Happy New Year, all! #62309
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Thanks, Nittany and PA.

    All of the best to both of youze this year and beyond.

    I go to the dentist tomorrow. Never the most pleasant way to spend one’s day. Hopefully, it will just be a routine checkup/cleaning, etc. No drama. I hope your visit is as routine as can be, PA Ram. Will you be doing Zazen to ease the journey?

    Well, it’s back to the novel. “Meanwhile, back at the ranch . . .”

    Take care, all.

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58154
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    And on that note, I think I’m going to take a break from online forums, here, elsewhere, everywhere.

    Need to focus on other things, especially my books.

    Take care, everyone. I wish you all great good fortune, peace, love and happiness and a lot more Rams’ victories!!

    ;>)

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58152
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Just posting the setup for the article and the studies he uses. I’ll leave it up anyone who cares to read the rest.

    The American National Elections Study (ANES) pilot survey offers a unique opportunity to study Trump voters, since it was completed in January 2016, long before Trump had definitively won the Republican nomination. For this analysis, I examined a single question: “How likely is it that many whites are unable to find a job because employers are hiring minorities instead?” Respondents could answer, “extremely likely,” “very likely,” “moderately likely,” “a little likely” and “not at all likely.” The question was only asked of whites, and is suggestive of the way that economic anxiety and racism are deeply intertwined. To determine Trump support, I used a “feeling thermometer,” which asks respondents to place their feelings about Donald Trump on a scale from 0 (coldest) to 100 (warmest).

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58151
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant
    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58149
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    So why did you attend a protest against Trump? A trans child? What has Trump ever done that would make you think you need to “protect” your child from him?

    He made Pence his VP, for starters, and the GOP base is filled with bigots, especially of the right-wing Christian fundie kind.

    Trump ran on hate, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and I couldn’t care less if you see that, bnw. It’s just fact. I also couldn’t care less if you say “PC is over!!” cuz it has nothing to do with PC. It has everything to do with Trump normalizing and unleashing a wave of right-wing bigotry. Ironically, he’s actually made it “PC” to do just that for his supporters, and we’re seeing that even in our elementary schools.

    And like the Dixie Chicks sang, millions of us are just not ready to make nice. Me, personally? That’s a never.

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58145
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    At least the Republicans had faith in democracy. They were willing to let their party burn to the ground, but…they let the people who showed up at caucuses and primaries decide WITHOUT anyone at RNC HQ deciding the outcome.

    Good post Mack. More later. First, just a quick drive-by.

    On the Reps not trying to fix things?

    That we KNOW OF.

    There were no wiki-leaks on the reps.

    And I think the odds of them not playing party games are slim to none.

    As you said they did maneuver to get Pence in charge of the appointments so where exactly did they play it free and fair?

    I was thinking the same thing after reading Mac’s very good post.

    If the GOP had faith in democracy, they wouldn’t have spent so much time — and decades now — trying to suppress the vote by any means necessary. Election after election, they’ve done that, by hook or crook, via slashing chances for early voting, to closing thousands of polling places in, big surprise, likely Democratic areas, to making it as difficult as possible for the poor to organize, register voters and vote themselves.

    I see absolutely zero trust in our democracy from the Republicans.

    And what do we call it when they block Obama from filling Scalia’s place on the Court? First they tell us that “the people should speak” by way of the next election, even though presidents are elected for four-year terms, not three. Then they changed their minds again when they thought Clinton would win. Then it was all, “We’re going to block ALL of her nominations!” Now, because Trump won the EVs, it’s “The people have spoken! This is a historical win!!” Even though it’s beginning to look like HRC will win the popular vote by several million.

    Only 56% of the electorate chose to vote, and a hell of a lot of that has to do with how hard the GOP has made it to do just that. High negatives for both candidates drove a lot of that as well, of course. They were both despised by large numbers of Americans. But if the GOP really wants to claim they support our democracy, they’ll do whatever they can to make it safe, easy and ultra-convenient for everyone to do just that.

    One of the best ways? Everyone should be automatically registered at age 18. Nothing to sign. You’re just automatically on the voting rolls. Period. We move the day to a Saturday, or make it a national holiday on whatever day of the week.

    The GOP will never, ever go for that, because they know if every registered voter turns up, they lose the vast majority of national elections.

    • This reply was modified 8 years ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    in reply to: "Something positive to read" ? #58128
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I mean…the truth is Trump won, and Republicans control the Senate, Congress, and will soon control the Supreme Court.

    And in 2018, things will possibly get worse because the Dems have 5 Senators up for re-election in red states, and 4 up for re-election in purple states, so the Republicans could get a filibuster proof absolute majority in the Senate.

    I don’t know what to say. “Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul” isn’t going to have much impact in the face of that. I’m sorry I was so blunt. I obviously struck the wrong tone.

    Zooey, my reaction was cumulative buildup/general observation. Not directed at you.

    And I agree with your prescriptions.

    Would just add blue skies. Science tells us they’re really good for us too. Helps us sleep as well. I don’t always follow my own advice, etc. but getting sunshine when we can is really helpful for our mood, our sanity and our sleep.

    Oh, and religion isn’t the only thing telling us to help others. I think we’re hard-wired to do that, and to feel damn good about it when we do. Science confirms this as well.

    Recent study at UVA showed the impact of just holding someone’s hand in moments of high stress and fear. It surprised the researches when they discovered that this also applied to fear and stress (because of concern) for others. Brain waves were hard to tell apart — when one is afraid for oneself or for a friend or family member. Just that hand-holding seemed to calm the waters for the test subjects.

    Anyway . . .

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58119
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    And here’s another ad from 24 days ago that’s still active.

    http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/npo/5837556143.html

    And what does that have to do with the anti-Trump demonstrations? It was pre-election, right? And you don’t think you can find GOP ads, pre-election, just like that?

    Come on, X.

    And on that note, I’m outta here to watch some football.

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58118
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    IMO, Dude, you need to raise your skepticism meter up to eleven whenever you see this kind of thing, and check sources. It makes no sense to try to counter the MSM’s “bias” with whacked out, fringe, tin-foil hat folks on the far right.

    lol. It was a real Craigslist ad, and people screencapped it.

    It’s not outside the realm of possibility that someone with tons of disposable income (Soros, maybe?) would orchestrate an inorganic protest in order to keep the movement going. It’s not a big deal, and it’s probably isolated, but it’s worth noting. I don’t see the benefit of sticking to the “these are nothing but organic and peaceful protests” narrative if there are instances where it isn’t. I mean, you don’t want your news spoon-fed to you, do you?

    X,

    I see fake news being spoon fed to Trump followers, and they’re eating it up.

    Why post something like that, when you have no idea who created it, no idea if anyone responded to it, and no idea if it’s even real?

    You don’t think we have the technology to create what looks like “screen-captures,” or change the ones we do ourselves? I did Internet and computer tech support for fifteen years, and got a communications degree before that — and Art before that one. It’s easy. Extremely easy to manipulate images anyway you want.

    Again, I think you need to rev up that skepticism meter for this kind of thing at LEAST as high as you have it set for the NYT. At least.

    in reply to: What sorcery is this? #58117
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Then tell Obama not to say he was born in Kenya. Tell his Kenyan relatives too.

    He didn’t. He’s always said he was born in Hawaii. Which he was.

    What do you think, personally, bnw? Do you think he was born overseas and shouldn’t have been president because of that?

    Not true. His own book bio said he was born in Kenya.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/09/obama_was_the_original_birther.html

    And then his wife.

    No, bnw, his own book never said that. If you follow your own links, and go to Snopes, it talks about a mistake on a PR pamphlet, not in his book. The person responsible for the mistake said they made that error. And Obama has never claimed to be born anywhere but Hawaii. Never. Not once. Ever.

    You will also note, if you follow your own link, that even Breitbart said they didn’t believe he was born anywhere but Hawaii.

    As for Michele’s comment? His father was born in Kenya. A lot of African-Americans talk about their African origins and proudly claim them as their homeland. Children of recent immigrants from Italy, Ireland, Germany, etc. etc. also do this. It’s very, very common.

    So, again, do you, personally, believe Obama lied about his place of birth? Don’t resort to other nutcase websites, please. Just voice your own opinion.

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58113
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    X,

    Come on. He’s an editor for infowars. Alex Jones is his boss. Deeply paranoid far-right fringe is his internal geography, and you shouldn’t believe a word he or anyone from that site EVER says.

    It was a cellphone screen cap that got passed around.
    Hell, *I’d* protest Trump for a day if it got me $350.00.
    Fresh air, sunshine, three fiddy. Sign me up.

    First off, you don’t know who created that ad — or any results from it. America has a long, long history of trumping up shit like that — to make dissidents look bad. As in, created BY corporations, governments, the establishment to crush dissent.

    Second, it’s ONE ad. I really enjoyed many of your posts, like Pink Floyd/Jersey girl, and wanted to compliment you on your writing as well . . . but I’m seeing another tendency at work:

    You do a lot of nutpicking, searching for one-off instances to somehow “prove” your points, as if lone, isolated examples, that may or may not be true, can do that.

    Yesterday, I said I’d rein myself in. And I’m going to. But it sure would make it a hell of a lot easier if everyone on this board — again, that includes me — is far more circumspect in what we post, our sources, our links.

    We all need to contribute more light and far less heat. Grabbing nutbag twitter feeds or using deeply partisan sources won’t do that. Again, that means all of us.

    in reply to: "Something positive to read" ? #58109
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Yeah, that’s a great idea. Mock and make fun of people who genuinely feel afraid and are grieving right now.

    Real classy, people.

    I have family and friends who are going through that right now, young, middle age and elderly, and most of us know lots of people who have every right in the world to be seriously afraid of a Trump/GOP presidency. That is, if we know black and brown people, women, Muslims and LGBT folks, especially.

    It’s to be expected that more than a few Trump voters would do this, given their support for an authoritarian bigot and lying, chickenhawk bully. But too many people on the left are piling on too. And that does surprise me.

    in reply to: Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic. #58102
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Not sure how organic these things are, and they’re becoming increasingly less peaceful.

    — Paul Joseph Watson (@PrisonPlanet) November 13, 2016

    X,

    Come on. He’s an editor for infowars. Alex Jones is his boss. Deeply paranoid far-right fringe is his internal geography, and you shouldn’t believe a word he or anyone from that site EVER says.

    You think the New York Times is “biased”? Alex “Sandy Hook was a false flag operation” Jones is beyond anything the NYTimes could ever dream of being, when it comes to rabidly partisan. And I personally don’t view the Times that way. But no matter.

    IMO, Dude, you need to raise your skepticism meter up to eleven whenever you see this kind of thing, and check sources. It makes no sense to try to counter the MSM’s “bias” with whacked out, fringe, tin-foil hat folks on the far right.

    • This reply was modified 8 years ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    • This reply was modified 8 years ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    in reply to: Poem O the Day #58098
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    The French produced some great war poetry as well. But, like the German, I’m stuck with reading translations. I still get so much from those, and try to find alternative translations for my favorite poets — 99% via actual books, not online.

    To shorten the list, Robert Desnos, Guillame Apollinaire and Paul Eluard, might be good places to start.

    Eluard’s Liberté

    https://allpoetry.com/Libert-

    Liberté
    On my school notebooks
    On my desk and on the trees
    On the sands of snow
    I write your name

    On the pages I have read
    On all the white pages
    Stone, blood, paper or ash
    I write your name

    On the images of gold
    On the weapons of the warriors
    On the crown of the king
    I write your name

    On the jungle and the desert
    On the nest and on the brier
    On the echo of my childhood
    I write your name

    On all my scarves of blue
    On the moist sunlit swamps
    On the living lake of moonlight
    I write your name

    On the fields, on the horizon
    On the birds’ wings
    And on the mill of shadows
    I write your name

    On each whiff of daybreak
    On the sea, on the boats
    On the demented mountaintop
    I write your name

    On the froth of the cloud
    On the sweat of the storm
    On the dense rain and the flat
    I write your name

    On the flickering figures
    On the bells of colors
    On the natural truth
    I write your name

    On the high paths
    On the deployed routes
    On the crowd-thronged square
    I write your name

    On the lamp which is lit
    On the lamp which isn’t
    On my reunited thoughts
    I write your name

    On a fruit cut in two
    Of my mirror and my chamber
    On my bed, an empty shell
    I write your name

    On my dog, greathearted and greedy
    On his pricked-up ears
    On his blundering paws
    I write your name

    On the latch of my door
    On those familiar objects
    On the torrents of a good fire
    I write your name

    On the harmony of the flesh
    On the faces of my friends
    On each outstretched hand
    I write your name

    On the window of surprises
    On a pair of expectant lips
    In a state far deeper than silence
    I write your name

    On my crumbled hiding-places
    On my sunken lighthouses
    On my walls and my ennui
    I write your name

    On abstraction without desire
    On naked solitude
    On the marches of death
    I write your name

    And for the want of a word
    I renew my life
    For I was born to know you
    To name you

    Liberty.

    All rights reserved, © Carla Yasmine Atwi. Copying without permission for non-personal use is forbidden. © by owner. provided at no charge for educational purposes

    in reply to: Poem O the Day #58089
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    It’s not poetry, of course. But another brilliant (and neglected) writer, who concentrated primarily on WWI and its aftermath is Joseph Roth. One of my favorites, all-time. Austrian. German-language. I’ve read a half dozen of his novels and some of his reportage, and I don’t think people can go wrong with any of them.

    His most famous novel, however, and arguably his best, is The Radetsky March. He was pretty much a life-long leftist, too.

    Emperor of Nostalgia

    and:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5552090

    Excerpt:

    Zoe Heller on a Joseph Roth Classic

    July 13, 20062:45 PM ET

    Chris Lehmann

    Zoe Heller was born in England in 1965. Her most recent novel, What Was She Thinking, was shortlisted for the Booker Prize in 2003 and has now been adapted for the screen. (The film, starring Judi Dench and Cate Blanchett, is to be released in December 2006.) Her next novel, The Believers, will be published by Henry Holt in 2007.

    Call them buttonhole books, the ones you urge passionately on friends, colleagues and passersby. All readers have them — and so do writers. This summer, NPR.org talks with authors about their favorite buttonhole books in the weekly series “You Must Read This.”

    Joseph Roth’s 1932 masterpiece, The Radetzky March, captures with remarkable fullness the abrupt passage of the Old Europe into the modern world. Roth captures this big theme in an arresting account of the rise and fall of one imperial Austrian family: the Trottas, a line of Slovenian peasants who came into nobility when an army lieutenant in the line famously saved the life of Kaiser Franz Joseph at the Battle of Solferino in 1859. Promoted to captain and given a title, Baron Joseph von Trotta retires into rural obscurity and dies; his son, Franz, grows up to be a nondescript government functionary.

    Franz’s bumbling son, Carl Joseph, resumes the family’s military vocation at his father’s urging, with consistently disastrous results. He ineptly thrusts his best friend, the Jewish doctor Demant, into a senseless duel. He takes a married lover, and piles up gambling debts and lost alcoholic weekends in a remote military outpost near the Ukrainian border. A crisis builds that would permanently jeopardize the family’s honor and good name, and the machinery of imperial favor lurches into gear one final time — only to be overtaken by the assassination of the Kaiser’s son Franz Ferdinand and the approach of the Great War.

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