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Billy_TParticipantTrade value chart:
Billy_TParticipantThe weakness of the above is probably the lack of O-line. Just a good center (Stromberg), who should start for the Rams. My other mocks usually go for at least three O-line guys. But it’s a lot tougher if I stick to the trade chart value. If the mock showers me with crazy good trade offers — which isn’t going to happen in real life — then I have an embarrassment of riches, etc.
I am one of those who thinks that they don’t need OL this draft though they will probably take 1 or 2. They have so many players coming back from injury on the OL, they are in a good position. Odds are you don’t have injury situations like last year that often–meaning that they can assume that the group will be relatively healthier. In that bunch they have a number of players who showed something even though they didn’t get than many games. I am not even sure they need a center. If Allen can’t go Shelton was fine and it’s no accident he’s one of the few players they re-signed.
I can see that view. But the O-line draft is really loaded this year, even late into the draft. The Rams have the opportunity to get more athletic there, and at least find better depth. But in the real world, they probably have other priorities, at least early.
I’d rather they get a couple of edges and two corners early, and go Defense. They need safeties too. But I’d be shocked if McSnead avoid the Offense. Likely a receiver or two. Abanikanda (RB), as mentioned (and Mitchell) would be great picks, IMO.
Billy_TParticipantThe second one is pure fantasy, primarily cuz the Rams would never get all of those trades, even if they wanted to make them. It’s a lot easier to make a huge number of them online. I’m guessing it’s extremely difficult to make volume trades happen as the draft progresses. But it’s a great draft, and would reset the entire team and make them instantly competitive.
I see at least 11 new starters, and nearly all the draftees with the potential for rookie snaps. I think Mingo will be good enough at receiver to allow the Rams to trade Jefferson, if they want to. Great size and athleticism. A bigger Deebo Samuels. Abanikanda makes Akers expendable. Bigger and much faster. So I’d start Israel, and use Luepke (FB) for short yardage, and Mitchell as the speedy change of pace back. Really hoping the Rams draft Mitchell. Extremely quick and fast, he’d be a dynamic home-run threat for McVay.
The O-line gets new starters, Stromberg, Daniels, and Bradford (or Richards). Juice gives them a solid backup at center.
Two new starters each at safety, corner, edge, punter. One new starter at DT and linebacker. Solid rotational edge, corner, and receiver.
Normally, if a team gets three or four starters, and keeps five or six players from a draft, it’s a good one. This one likely nails all but a couple.
Billy_TParticipantThis is a combination of me making fair trades, and accepting a few crazy trades offered to me:
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7 Round – 1 Team: Mock Draft
03/30/23Trade Recap
Los Angeles Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 44
2023: Round 3, Pick 75
2023: Round 4, Pick 110
2023: Round 5, Pick 159
2023: Round 7, Pick 225
Atlanta Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 36Los Angeles Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 46
2023: Round 6, Pick 184
2023: Round 7, Pick 245
New England Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 44Los Angeles Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 53
2023: Round 2, Pick 64
2023: Round 3, Pick 103
Chicago Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 46Los Angeles Receives:
2023: Round 4, Pick 111
2023: Round 5, Pick 140
2023: Round 7, Pick 229
Cleveland Receives:
2023: Round 3, Pick 103My Selections
53
Jack Campbell
LB | Iowa LogoIowaTRADE64
Tuli Tuipulotu
DL | USC LogoUSCTRADE69
D.J. Turner
CB | Michigan LogoMichigan75
Gervon Dexter
DL | Florida LogoFloridaTRADE77
Zach Harrison
EDGE | Ohio State LogoOhio State110
J.L. Skinner
S | Boise State LogoBoise StateTRADE111
Jartavius Martin
S | Illinois LogoIllinoisTRADE140
Israel Abanikanda
RB | Pittsburgh LogoPittsburghTRADE159
Jonathan Mingo
WR | Mississippi LogoMississippiTRADE167
Braeden Daniels
IOL | Utah LogoUtah171
Ricky Stromberg
IOL | Arkansas LogoArkansas177
Daniel Scott
S | California LogoCalifornia182
Keaton Mitchell
RB | East Carolina LogoEast Carolina184
Hunter Luepke
RB | North Dakota State LogoNorth Dakota StateTRADE189
Cory Trice
CB | Purdue LogoPurdue191
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
WR | West Virginia LogoWest Virginia223
Asim Richards
IOL | North Carolina LogoNorth Carolina225
Juice Scruggs
IOL | Penn State LogoPenn StateTRADE229
Anthony Bradford
IOL | LSU LogoLSUTRADE245
Yasir Abdullah
LB | Louisville LogoLouisvilleTRADE251
Bryce Baringer
P | Michigan State LogoMichigan StateBilly_TParticipantThe weakness of the above is probably the lack of O-line. Just a good center (Stromberg), who should start for the Rams. My other mocks usually go for at least three O-line guys. But it’s a lot tougher if I stick to the trade chart value. If the mock showers me with crazy good trade offers — which isn’t going to happen in real life — then I have an embarrassment of riches, etc.
Billy_TParticipanthttps://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/team-mock-drafts/2023
This is one where I refrained from the crazy good trade offers and made my own instead, going by the trade chart. Of course, I’m not really sure if NFL GMs actually use that anymore.
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Trade Recap
Los Angeles Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 43
2023: Round 4, Pick 112
New York Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 36Los Angeles Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 46
2023: Round 4, Pick 135
2023: Round 6, Pick 210
New England Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 43 2023:
Round 6, Pick 191Los Angeles Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 50
2023: Round 5, Pick 153
2023: Round 6, Pick 196
Tampa Bay Receives:
2023: Round 2, Pick 46___
My Selections
50
Drew Sanders
LB | Arkansas LogoArkansasTRADE69
Zach Harrison
EDGE | Ohio State LogoOhio State77
D.J. Turner
CB | Michigan LogoMichigan112
Colby Wooden
DL | Auburn LogoAuburnTRADE135
Israel Abanikanda
RB | Pittsburgh LogoPittsburghTRADE153
Jonathan Mingo
WR | Mississippi LogoMississippiTRADE167
Jakorian Bennett
CB | Maryland LogoMaryland171
Ricky Stromberg
IOL | Arkansas LogoArkansas177
Davis Allen
TE | Clemson LogoClemson182
Keaton Mitchell
RB | East Carolina LogoEast Carolina189
Andrei Iosivas
WR | Princeton LogoPrinceton196
Brandon Hill
S | Pittsburgh LogoPittsburghTRADE210
Chamarri Conner
S | Virginia Tech LogoVirginia TechTRADE223
Rejzohn Wright
CB | Oregon State LogoOregon State251
Lonnie Phelps
EDGE | Kansas LogoKansas(I’m guessing DJ Turner won’t be there at 77. Other than that, I think it’s realistic too, except for the volume of trades.)
Billy_TParticipantThat’s a pretty good mock for the Rams. Big fan, especially, of the DJ Turner and Israel Abanikanda picks. Though after the latter’s recent Pro Day, I highly doubt he’ll last until 167. They both make the Rams a great deal faster and more athletic.
Rams met with Pitt RB Israel Abanikanda before outstanding pro day performance
Ryan Fowler
@_RyanFowler_
Pitt RB Izzy Abanikanda met with the 49ers, Rams, and Cardinals yesterday evening, per source.Fresh off an outstanding Pro Day this morning where he jumped 41″ in the vert, 10’8″ in the broad, and ran mid 4.3s(u) in the 40, he’s had himself an excellent 24 hours.
Felix Anudike-Uzomah should be a good Edge as well. Solid draft.Have been having fun with NFL mock draft simulators. Almost addicted at this point. :>) I like www profootballnetwork dot com and www nflmockdatabase dot com. PFF’s is now subscription only, so I don’t bother with that one anymore.Whenever possible, I pick DJ Turner and Israel, and that was before his Pro Day.
The first on the list is much tougher on trades for the home team, but I still make them. As in, the algorithm is set to “decline” trades even if they meet the standards of the value chart. The second site, however, is much too generous to the home team, so I’ve been trying to force trades closer to the value chart — to be fair and all.
My recent mocks involve a ton of trades, far more than the norm. But since it’s all just fantasy stuff, why not? I’ve had a few that, in my not so humble opinion, would set the Rams up for a dynasty!;>)Billy_TParticipantThe Rams may be just clearing enough cap space to sign Chris Massey.
I was hoping for Madison “Hedgehog” Hedgecock.
This may be yet another McVay revolution. Strip the team of 99% of the roster, and then field three players on offense and defense. It would confuse the opposing coach so much they’d throw up their hands, walk off the field in a Sam Huff, and, essentially, forfeit. So the Rams would go 17 and 0, and cruise through the playoffs and win the Super Bowl via forfeit too.
This will only work for one season, though, of course. Eventually the Data crunchers will figure it all out, and use their ChatGen7.0 to rewrite the rules. But the Rams will win one more for the Flipper.
Billy_TParticipantAnother quick point. I’m gonna try to ask Jourdan in a comments section:
The Rams really count on their comp picks. Those are essential building blocks for their team-building model. But when you release players, you’re not eligible for any comps. So why do it? Or, at the very least, why pre-negotiate against yourself, and announce publicly that “If we can’t trade X, we’ll release him”?
(Seems obvious that most teams will just wait until they’re released, etc.)
Doesn’t strike me as smart chess.
Billy_TParticipantAgreed, WV.
And good points, ZN. Had forgotten about her take on Goff. I can see the “access” problem there. But, as you both mention, on balance? She’s the best the Rams have had, at least in my lifetime. We’d likely need a Waterfield to help us out with the old LA beat writers back in the day. Don’t know how good they were . . .
Most of us here are nomads, I’m guessing. I started as an East Coast fan back in 1966, and without the Internet in existence, didn’t see LA Times journalism — or St Louis — until the 1990s. Basically missed roughly 30 years of it. Relied primarily on Sports Illustrated, Sports Magazine, Washington Post, and a few other outlets here and there. Always bought those NFL magazines that previewed the new season, like Athlons, too. Really looked forward to those. Plus, the occasional TV games, etc. etc.
But at least from the Internet era onward, yeah, she’s the best. And she’s humble. I like that about her.
Billy_TParticipantI think those late comp picks — which really should be viewed as early picks in the following round — should be used primarily to move up, if the trades are there. I’d also try to set things up for the next draft, by trading some of them for an earlier round in 2024 or 2025. Typically, a 5th rounder this year is worth a 4th founder next year. Not always. But typically.
. . . The Niners got a nice haul this year of seven total. Four is the max, unless a team receives comps for coaching losses due to promotions of minority candidates to HC or GM. That gives the Niners a ton of flexibility with their other comps. If I were their GM, I’d use the late picks for trade-ups and next year’s draft.
The Rams have three comps after the 5th round, and one after the 7th. There’s a big gap between their 3rd rounder (77, from the Dolphins), and their first comp after the 5th (167). Hopefully, they can move up. Not likely, but it would be great if they could trade a player they no longer have plans for . . . but not sure if they have any of those assets left. Wagner and Floyd might have been their last chance for mid-draft picks.
This is obviously going to be a seriously important draft year.
Billy_TParticipantJourdan’s podcast is a coupla days early this week. Ad-free if you have The Athletic. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-the-jalen-ramsey-trade-whats-next-for-rams/id1477535034?i=1000603975002
Is it entirely about the Ramsey trade? If not, maybe it should be it’s own thread? I fixed your ¶s in that one post btw.
Thanks for the edits.
The podcast is mostly about the trade, but she does touch upon Rams philosophy in general, looking ahead to 2024, and some other issues. Ramsey dominates the show, though, and Jourdan gives her opinion on the compensation.
If you think it should be on its own, that’s kewl too.
Billy_TParticipantJourdan’s podcast is a coupla days early this week. Ad-free if you have The Athletic. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-the-jalen-ramsey-trade-whats-next-for-rams/id1477535034?i=1000603975002
Is it entirely about the Ramsey trade? If not, maybe it should be it’s own thread? I fixed your ¶s in that one post btw.
Thanks for the edits, ZN.
The podcast is mostly about the trade, but not entirely. Jourdan gives her take on the comp for the trade, and they touch upon general team issues and looking to 2024. It’s pretty good. Better, IMO, than Jourdan’s recent article on the trade. She’s more to the point. etc. Just my take.
Billy_TParticipantGood catch, ZN.
My bad.
I think I got that (cut and paste) from cbssports after a quick duckduckgo. Looks wrong.
Here’s the list from Ramswire:
Round 2
No. 36Round 3
No. 69
No. 77 (from Dolphins)Round 5
No. 167*
No. 171*
No. 177*Round 6
No. 182
No. 189 (from Titans)
No. 191 (from Packers)Round 7
No. 223 (from Detroit)
No. 251**compensatory pick
Billy_TParticipantTis true, ZN.
Lotsa different ways of looking at this. But the only angle worth a Picasso is mine, all mine!!
;>)
Woman in a Chemise in an Armchair, by Pablo Picasso. 1913
It goes without saying that I’m hoping the Rams make this all work to the max, and they compete well in 2023, and turn things around completely in 2024. I’ve stuck with the Rams since 1966. Not going anywhere.
Billy_TParticipantBut if reports are true that Ramsey asked for his money to be guaranteed in both 23 and 24, then they didn’t do anything except move on from a player they couldn’t afford.
ZN,
I get that they thought they had no choice but to move on, cuz of the guaranteed money. Perhaps for other reasons we don’t know about, as well. The issue to me is the compensation, and why they narrowed the pool of possible trading partners. It’s clear to me they botched that part. It’s also clear to me that they put themselves in the position of having to say no to Ramsey’s contract demands because of their impulsive contract extensions after the Super Bowl, especially Stafford’s.
IMO, Ramsey would have been the better guy to extend than Stafford, if it came down to a choice. More likely to actually see the field for the majority of his new contract. I just don’t see Stafford as playing for much of his. He’s taken a beating throughout his career, and while he’s tough as nails, I’m not sanguine about his future with the Rams. Don’t know how retirement impacts contracts and guaranteed money, but I’d bet Stafford retires after this season, especially if the Rams don’t make it to the playoffs. AD likely too.
In short, I stand with Achebe: Things Fall Apart.
Billy_TParticipantLos Angeles Rams Draft Picks by Round in 2023
Round 2, Pick 36 overall
Round 3, Pick 69 overall
Round 3, Pick 77
Round 5, Pick 167 overall
Round 5, Pick 171 overall
Round 5, Pick 177 overall
Round 6, Pick 182 overall
Round 6, Pick 189 overall (from ATL)
Round 6, Pick 191 overall (from TEN)
Round 7, Pick 223
Round 7, Pick 235
Round 7, Pick 251____
The Rams have a huge gap in the draft, between the 3rd round and the 5th round comps. Roughly 90 picks go by without the Rams having a shot.
I’m guessing the Rams make moves to reduce that gap.
Strange: Have been playing around with some of the NFL mock simulators, and the PFF version keeps giving them #136 (as of this morning). I’m guessing that’s supposed to be a 4th round comp. They seem to have the rest of them mostly in order.
. . . I think they could have gotten a 4th for Floyd or Wagner, at least. It would have required patience, and a great poker face. No public declarations that they’d cut them if they couldn’t trade them, which is always a stupid poker move. But they should have been able to fill that gap. It looks like they’re out of player assets to move, and will have to trade back for more picks, if they want them. Picks for more picks, etc.
Billy_TParticipantQuick comment about the trade, mostly via readings/listenings including Jourdan’s. I think where the Rams really hurt themselves is by limiting their trade partners to AFC only. Jourdan said the return was a lot worse than it should have been, and she suggested that was primarily due to limiting the pool of partners.
My inference is that the Rams would have gotten at least a 2nd, and possibly a 1st, if they had said yes to NFC too. Didn’t see this broken down further by just saying No to their own division, which would have been understandable.
Yes, the guaranteed money was a big factor. But I think that would have been negated if you open things up to at least NFC North, South, and East.
Billy_TParticipantZN,
Responded twice yesterday to your comment about the podcast, but it didn’t post. Not sure if this one will, either. No links in the posts, if memory serves, so not sure why it didn’t go through.
Anyway, I’m good with wherever you want to put the podcast. It’s mostly about the Ramsey trade, but not entirely.
Billy_TParticipantJourdan’s podcast is a coupla days early this week. Ad-free if you have The Athletic.
Billy_TParticipantQuick side note: I tried several times to fix the paragraphs, but it wouldn’t take. Showed it was fine, though, before I posted.
Not sure if it’s on my end or the site’s. Oh, well.
Billy_TParticipantGrading the Jalen Ramsey trade for the Rams: LA loses this deal
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Personally, I think the D- grade above is too generous.
I disagree with Whit here:
Andrew Whitworth@AndrewWhitworthBecause that’s what teams offered. That’s what people are missing! That’s a reflection of You being desperate seller Jalen’s contract value Jalen wanting better contract (why Miami had to guarantee more years) You think the rams chose that deal over two 1st rounders??? No that’s what teams saw as Jalen’s worth with the requirements to get deal done. That’s not that hard to understand. Take out emotion and it’s easyFirst off, he doesn’t know what teams offered. He’s guessing, like everyone else on the outside. Second, it’s not “emotional” to say this was a terrible trade. It’s “emotional,” IMO, to make excuses for the Rams FO in this case, especially if one says they had to do it. If not emotional, then reflexive..No one forced them to make this trade. It was a choice. And if one wants to say the Cap made ’em do it, well, who got them into Cap Hell? Jourdan says the Rams acted “emotionally” after the Super Bowl when they did their extensions of Stafford and others. All of that guaranteed money, when they didn’t have to extend their QB yet, and definitely not with that kind of contract? Ramsey was actually the better bet, if we’re talking guarantees, given his lack of injuries and relative youth..I’m not in the same camp with people who seem to think that because the Rams won the Super Bowl, you can’t criticize any of their decisions. Winning the Super Bowl was fantastic, but those mistakes weren’t necessary ingredients for that win. They won despite the mistakes, and fewer of them likely leads to more Super Bowls..Goff was extended years too soon. Same with Gurley. Same with Stafford. They keep making the same errors, and they keep living in Cap Hell. Dumping players like Floyd and Wagner (plus Lewis, Hendo, Burgess, Hollins) with zero compensation is not good team-building, and it’s not a valid excuse to say they had to, cuz, again, they made their own bed, cap-wise, etc..Bottom line for me: If all I can get for Ramsey is a third and a bench-sitting TE, I pass. I also don’t limit the pool of suitors by worrying about the best landing spot for Ramsey, and I don’t eliminate the NFC cuz I don’t want to face him. That sounds “emotional” to me.Billy_TParticipantThis was a seriously stupid trade, and it didn’t even garner that much Cap relief. According to Ramswire, less than 6 million.
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The entire league knows the Rams are an easy mark. They give up waay too much for players they want, and they ask for waay too little in comp for players they trade away.
To me, this looks like another case of them putting the wishes of a now former player above the best interests of the team. Ramsey wanted to go to Miami, so that’s where they sent him. Very likely Miami knew this and low-balled the Rams as a result.
I think it’s time for new management and an end to this ethos of bending over backwards for players on their way out the door.
Billy_TParticipantJourdan’s podcast is good this week, though she’s not at her best, physically. Working while sick, basically.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/11-personnel-a-show-about-the-los-angeles-rams/id1477535034
She talks about the Rams FO soul searching, recognizing they made some bad decisions, acting “emotionally,” etc. New contracts given to Stafford and others, for example.
Easy inference: their cap hell wasn’t inevitable. So if they cut or trade players to offload salary this offseason . . . it’s not really just the normal ebb and flow of things. Bad choices, made their own bed, etc. etc.
It’s a hopeful sign, however, that they seem to understand this. McVay and company are kinda sorta growing up before our very eyes.
Billy_TParticipantTo me, the logical thing to do with Ramsey, if they were to keep him, is move him to safety. He likely turns into the best in the league if they do. If he were amenable to it, etc.
Trading him or not trading him this season comes down to this: Roll the dice, play him in 2023, trade him in 2024, but risk a (major?) reduction in compensation.
But if they keep him, again, I’d move him to safety and draft a coupla corners. This is a deep draft for that position. Just so so for safeties.
Billy_TParticipantI have to say… the Rams are quite good at identifying talent, and trading appropriate value to obtain it and quite terrible at extracting value for trading away talent they have.
Perhaps we’ve been looking at this sport all wrong for generations. Perhaps it’s not about building the best possible team, to win the most possible games, including the final test, the Super Bowl. Speaking for myself, at least, that’s been my take on things for a long, long time.
But, recently, I’ve had an epiphany of sorts. It struck me the other day when I was doing my usual tour through the countryside in my horse-drawn carriage. As usual, once I left my estates, the masses were massed three or four rows deep, some running alongside the carriage, shouting my name, hoping to get a glimpse of my Shakespearean troupe and me . . . and so I thought: “What do the people really want in life? They don’t want victories. They just want to know that every NFL player winds up with the team of their dreams, and it’s the duty of every Front Office to make that happen, no matter how difficult or costly this may be.”
And as if they had read my thoughts, several among the adoring masses had signs that said “I desire we may be better strangers!”
Mark my words: McVay/Snead will one day be recognized as true revolutionaries, right up there with Spartacus, Kropotkin, Mrs. Maisel, and Rick Astley.
Billy_TParticipantVan Ness wasn’t a starter, but in their system, that doesn’t really tell us anything. Seniors get the call first, apparently. He looks like the real deal.
All things being equal, you want guys with four years experience as starters. At least three. But in major programs, there is a ton of talent on the bench. Some never see the field. Great scouts can uncover those guys. If memory serves, Edgerrin James didn’t start for Miami, but became a great pro.
I’d bet programs like Georgia, Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, etc. etc. . . . . have really good players that ride the pine their entire football career.
. . .
You just don’t see offensive linemen with Breeland’s size have that vert and broad. Crazy.
i would take bpa at front seven, oline, or defensive back. i think all three are needs if ramsey is traded.
I can go with that, Invader. Sounds smart.
Billy_TParticipantGood overview of top tight ends and wideouts, focusing on their Combines:
Billy_TParticipantDarnell Washington would be great for the Rams. Very likely to help their run game, and his athleticism was under-used in college. He could surprise as a receiver too. 11” hands? Surprising speed, and crazy good shuttle.
Kuntz is someone the Rams could get late, though his Combine performance may have thrown that out of whack. Amazing athlete, with great size. Would be all in for that pick.
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