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Video link – training camp report for June 16.
AgamemnonLooks like Todd Gurley has some food truck pull at #Rams practice pic.twitter.com/8sJnm75YfM
— Vincent Bonsignore (@DailyNewsVinny) June 16, 2016
Todd Gurley hooking up the #Rams with Carl's Jr. pic.twitter.com/IrmRBCb5Bc
— Vincent Bonsignore (@DailyNewsVinny) June 16, 2016
Todd Gurley won some points with the #Rams today pic.twitter.com/XdpBZEarVe
— Vincent Bonsignore (@DailyNewsVinny) June 16, 2016
AgamemnonRams DT Aaron Donald is ranked the No. 4 player in the NFL by @PFF, behind J.J. Watt, Gronk, and Antonio Brown. https://t.co/v9UH8w1VRQ
— Jack Wang (@thejackwang) June 16, 2016
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-101-best-nfl-players-right-now/
4. Aaron Donald, DT, Rams
Aaron Donald was the best player of 2015, but he doesn’t have the résumé that the players ahead of him on this list own. There’s nothing to say that Donald can’t achieve that kind of staying power, and his career trajectory is in almost perfect lock-step with J.J. Watt’s over the same time period, but until he does it, it would be premature to leap him above players that have shown elite-level performance over many seasons. It took years to convince people just how good Watt was, and Donald is experiencing the same issue of denial right now. Having come to accept Watt as a generationally-great player, it seems illogical that we would see a second one come along just a couple of years later rather than in, you know, another generation. However, it seems that may be happening with Donald. He was the most disruptive defender in the NFL in 2015, generating 79 total pressures and actually getting pressure at a higher rate than Watt on a per-snap basis, despite playing almost exclusively inside, while Watt played the majority of his snaps on the edge where pressure comes more readily. With only one year of play at this level, keeping Donald at No. 4 is the right move, but if he can repeat that production in 2016, the battle for the No. 1 spot becomes intense.
Agamemnon
Some numbers for the deep, long, lone, last, free safety position.
I listed them in order of their 40 times. Just because in his last video, GW talked so much about speed.
I don’t see all of these guys making the team, just because of numbers. But, maybe a trade?, maybe an injury? maybe Randolph or Bryant makes it to the practice squad. Still, this seems to be a pretty good group.
Agamemnon
A couple things, these are projected number, the percent changes are not consistant, and it is only over one year..
I like my 14.3% for QBs and it works out best for 5 years. imo
I did one more, CBs. That worked out best for 8.5% on a 4 year contract. imo
These numbers/percents seem close enough for government work. 😉
These figures are exact and they include transition tags, but they don’t have the percentages worked out.
There are some things that might be apparent and might not. QB contracts seem to have a slight increase each year. CB contracts seem to front load a bit. The last years might even be less than the first years. Is this really significant? I don’t know. 😉
Agamemnon
Luck should insist on a percentage of the salary cap in future years
Luck should insist on a percentage of the salary cap in future years
Posted by Mike Florio on June 9, 2016, 12:26 PM EDT
INDIANAPOLIS, IN – JANUARY 03: Andrew Luck of the Indianapolis Colts watches the action during the game against the Tennessee Titans at Lucas Oil Stadium on January 3, 2016 in Indianapolis, Indiana. (Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images) Getty ImagesThe Colts want to pay quarterback Andrew Luck a lot of money. Luck presumably wants to be paid a lot of money by the Colts. And the Colts presumably want to avoid having to go through this again, for as long as possible.
For that reason, it’s no surprise that (as suggested by Ian Rapoport of NFL Media on Wednesday), Colts owner Jim Irsay originally wanted a 10-year deal. The structure has now narrowed to five or six years.
Regardless of duration, these long-term deals are getting done at a time when the salary cap is increasing by more than $10 million per year. By the time the last few years of the contract arrive, the player’s compensation will necessarily seem lower in comparison to the salary cap and the market reflected by contracts negotiated by other players.
That’s why players like Luck should be requesting not specific salary amounts in the final years of the contract but specific percentages of the salary cap. If, for example, Luck signs a $25 million-per-year deal when the cap is $155.3 million, that’s 16.1 percent of the cap. So if/when (when) the cap hits $200 million in 2020, Luck should be making $32.2 million.
There’s nothing in the labor deal that prevents tying compensation to a percentage of the cap, and multiple sources have told PFT that agents currently are attempting to hinge future pay to cap percentage for top-tier players. Teams predictably don’t like it.
Ultimately, teams may not have a choice. If Luck will commit to a long-term deal only if the Colts will commit to ensuring that his pay consistently reflects a fair portion of the salary cap going forward, the Colts will have two choices: Let him play year to year under the franchise tag or give Luck what he wants.
The number 16.1% is a bit erroneous,(If you sign a 25m/yr contract, how can the first year be 25 million and the last year be 32 million. ; ) ) at least the way he uses it. I doubt teams want such a direct link to the salary cap, although, in effect there does seem to be a direct link. imo
zn, don’t you use 25m/yr, although you probably got it a different way.
AgamemnonI wasn’t doing a “refute posting.” Just by accident then the thread just has 2 different early views of the FS situation. And I like that.
It could turn out that way. I was thinking, Barron was rotated in on passing downs as sort of a hybrid lb/s. Then Ogletree got hurt and he replaced him. Now Ogletree is the mlb. Barron is the wslb. So, Alexander, who is sort of a copy of Barron, goes to his old hybrid role and we still need a fs. Or, they might not choose that and just go with only replacing McCleod.
Or, Alexander is the starting fs and when they go to the “big nickel”, he rotates down into Barron’s old role? The we still need a player to fill the fs role.
AgamemnonI always thought Alexander would replace what Barron did, now that Barron is a LB.
Then some other player would be McCleod’s replacement.
Agamemnonhttp://overthecap.com/alec-ogletree-receives-no-offset-guarantees-with-rams-should-anyone-care/
Alec Ogletree Receives No Offset Guarantees with Rams- Should Anyone Care
Posted on June 14, 2013 by Jason Fitzgerald[adsenseyu1]
Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk just picked up the details that the Rams put no offset language in the contract of Alec Ogletree drafted number 30 overall which now has some speculating that it will change the parameters of contract negotiations of those selected between 21 and 30 as the players now have some leverage in their negotiations with the their teams. As I had pointed out back in my article on negotiating points for rookies the Rams actions in the draft will have almost no bearing on the negotiations of other teams.
The Rams are a franchise that simply believes in putting no offsets in the contracts of their 1st round draft picks. Maybe its to show that they believe in them. Maybe they just want to be different as they are a bit quirky with some of their money allocations. Whatever the case this is what they do.
In 2011 the Rams had the 14th pick in the draft which they used on Robert Quinn. Quinn received a guarantees with no offsets. The only other player drafted that season to garner such a deal was Cam Newton, selected first overall. The Rams struck again last season, ironically with the 14th pick (Michael Brockers), with the no offset language on the guarantees. The next highest player to receive such a contract was Luke Kuechly selected at number 9 overall. The players selected between number 11 and 13 all signed well after Brockers. His signing made no impact. It was no surprise that Tavon Austin, picked number 8, received no offsets from the Rams and while no one knew for certain about Ogletree nobody will be swayed one bit by the move.
Last season the Detroit Lions caved on the no offsets for the 23rd pick in the draft, Riley Reiff. The Lions now have a similar reputation as the Rams. Signing after Reiff were Kendall Wright(pick 20), Brandon Weeden (pick 22), and David DeCastro (pick 24). All contained offset language.
Might some look at Ogletree and Reiff and think it gives them more reason to wait to sign? Possibly. The team with the most riding on it is the Vikings who dug in last year with Matt Kalil and lost, but Kalil had extreme leverage in that everyone around him was receiving those contracts. Minnesota has three picks in the 20s, but they won’t have the same leverage Kalil had because of precedence of the last two years. With the Broncos and Packers looking to sign deals with picks 26 and 28 respectively, it would seem that almost any leverage would disappear for the other players as those two teams are extremely tough on contracts and would likely not even entertain the issue if brought up.
About 80 percent of his contract was guaranteed, as opposed to 100 percent for Goff.
AgamemnonRookie Contracts And Offset Clauses: A Different Kind Of Battle In The Trenches
By Frank “Dubs” Dobozy
From Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk, June 7, 2013:
“In late April, 254 players were drafted by NFL teams. In early June, 72.8 percent of them are officially under contract. Per a source with knowledge of the information, the NFLPA has received and logged 185 contracts. At least four other players (all Raiders) have agreed to terms, but have not had their information included in the database. Officially, 45 of 48 seventh-rounders have agreed to terms, along with 33 of 38 sixth-rounders and 32 of 35 fifth-round picks. The only round with fewer than 54 percent of the players signed is the first round, where six of 32 players have agreed to terms. The rookie wage scale, launched in 2011, has made the process of negotiating incoming player contracts much easier. For first rounders, there are only two pressure points — whether “offset” language will apply to the fully guaranteed money for the players taken in the top 10, and the specific point at which the round-one contracts will cease being fully guaranteed. Only the Rams have yet to sign a single 2013 draft pick.”
Before delving into the issue of rookie contracts and offset clauses, it is interesting to note that the Rams are the ONLY team that has not signed at least one of their 2013 draft picks. These are the reasons I believe the Rams have not signed one of their draft picks as of June 7, 2013:
The yearly Rookie Symposium is to be held from June 23-29 this year. All rookies are required to attend this event. Among the matters discussed at this symposium are management of money and financial matters. The Rams believe it is important for rookies to receive and put into place the advice given at these meetings before giving them large sums of money (like signing bonuses) that their contracts would entitle them to. An article written by Jim Thomas today lends further insight into how the Rams deal with their rookies and money (please click on link).
The Rams want to see how their draft choices perform and adjust in OTA’s and mini-camps before determining the amounts of signing bonuses and other guaranteed monies that will be included in their rookie contracts.
The Rams currently have $3,522,704 in available cap space (please click on link), as noted in my salary cap space article on May 28. This amount does not include the reduction in cap space that will occur when the rookies are signed. With such limited resources, it is imperative that the Rams take the time to assess the cap space situation, contracts and possible player additions before determining how to best allocate the remaining cap space.
The Rams are sitting back and waiting to see how the “offset clause” situation develops with other teams and their first round draft picks before determining the appropriate course of action to take regarding offset language in the rookie contracts of Tavon Austin and Alec Ogletree.The expectation is that the Rams will not encounter any problems related to signing their rookie draft class. The only issue that could arise is if the Rams elect to join the battle regarding “offset clauses” in rookie contracts.
The new Collective Bargaining Agreement, signed in 2011, contains a rookie wage scale that leaves very little room for negotiation with rookie contracts. Each first round pick has a salary floor and ceiling based on their draft position. The contracts of all first round picks are four years in length, with a team option for a fifth year, that must be exercised after the end of the third year of the deal. Most of the rookie contracts in the first 20 selections of the draft are fully guaranteed. With so many of the terms in a rookie contract already established by the CBA, most of the negotiations with first round picks have been relatively quick and painless. That may very well change this year.
Offset clauses/language in rookie contracts
There is much talk and speculation around the NFL that contract negotiations with first round picks (primarily those in the top 15) will be more difficult and prolonged this year, with the possibility of holdouts occurring. The main issue, and potential battleground, with these contracts is whether the guaranteed amounts will have offset clauses. Offset language is what teams are attempting to include in contracts, while no offset language greatly benefits the players. The inclusion of offset language permits a team to realize cap space savings and salary reductions if it releases a player and he signs with another team during the course of his original contract. With an offset clause, if a team releases a player, even with a guaranteed contract, and that player signs with another team, the original team can reduce the money owed to the player by the amount of his new deal. The absence of offset language allows a player to “double dip”. The player could be cut, and then sign with another team, collecting his salary from the new team while still receiving the full guaranteed amount from his original team.
The following is an example of an offset clause in practice: A first round pick is entering his fourth year in the league and has turned out to be a disappointment. The team releases him, and the player is due 3 million in guaranteed money that year. The player then agrees to a contract with a new team for the same 3 million. If there is offset language in the rookie contract, the original team would not owe the player any money, for the 3 million from the new team would offset the 3 million owed from the rookie contract. The player would only receive the contracted 3 million with his new team. If there is no offset language in the rookie contract, the player would receive the 3 million from his original team and 3 million from his new team.
History of offset clause contracts since 2011
In 2011, the first year of the new CBA, only the number 1 overall pick in the draft and the number 14 pick negotiated contracts that did not include offset clauses.
In 2012, the first 7 picks in the draft, and the number 9 and 14 picks, managed to negotiate contracts that did not include offset clauses.
Thus far in 2013, only 6 first round picks have been signed to a contract. They are Ezekiel Ansah (#5), D.J. Fluker (#11), Star Lotulelei (#14), Kenny Vaccaro (#15), Jarvis Jones (#17) and Kyle Long (#20). Ansah’s contract does not include an offset clause. Both Fluker and Lotulelei have offset language in their contracts. Information regarding offsets is not available as of yet for the other three players signed.
Of interest to Rams fans: The number 14 picks in 2011 and 2012 were Robert Quinn and Michael Brockers, respectively. Both players have contracts that are fully guaranteed and contain no offset language. The Rams have established a team precedent on offsets with these signings; as a result, Tavon Austin should not have too much difficulty in getting guaranteed money without offsets. It is debatable as to whether the same will hold true for Alec Ogletree, who was selected with the number 30 pick in the first round.
It is believed that some teams will be more adamant about putting offset language in the latter years of rookie contracts, reversing the gains made in this area by players and their agents last year. One of the teams to watch as negotiations continue are the Miami Dolphins. It is expected that they will insist on offset language in Dion Jordan’s contract (#3 pick), in a manner similar to what the team did last year with their #8 pick (QB Ryan Tannehill). (please click on link).
From the National Football Post:
“It will be interesting to see how the offset issue unfolds in the coming weeks. There could be a domino effect that extends to a majority of the subsequent picks that didn’t have offsets last year if Miami is successful in preserving their precedent with Jordan before the other picks sign. Even though holdouts are largely a thing of the past because of the rookie wage scale, there could be an increase in them if agents are unwilling to give back the ground gained last year regarding offset clauses.”
Irrespective of what happens with other top ten picks, Rams fans should expect that Tavon Austin will sign a contract that will be fully guaranteed and contain no offset language or clauses. This is an organization that has supreme confidence in their ability to assess football talent. The Rams have no question about keeping their first round picks for the long term, and expect them to be under contract throughout the duration of their deals.
Just a bit more on contracts.
AgamemnonThe way to stay ahead is too constantly draft quality less expensive players to replace your expensive FAs you can’t afford to keep.
Agamemnon#Rams might still sign a safety, but I'm told development/OTA work of Maurice Alexander, Cody Davis and Christian Bryant very encourging
— Vincent Bonsignore (@DailyNewsVinny) June 13, 2016
Agamemnonhttps://www.facebook.com/LATimesSports/videos
https://www.facebook.com/LATimesSports/videos/10153715645138337/
https://www.facebook.com/LATimesSports/videos/vb.184963273336/10153806310108337/?type=2&theater
https://www.facebook.com/LATimesSports/videos/vb.184963273336/10153811204653337/?type=2&theater
This page contains a bunch of videos.
AgamemnonFrom off the link to facebook, they said Joyner has played some CB and is doing well. The WRs complain about going against him in press coverage.
AgamemnonStedman Bailey, on recovering from gunshot wounds to the head he suffered last Nov: "I really feel like myself." pic.twitter.com/BBxw3w27fr
— Jack Wang (@thejackwang) June 10, 2016
AgamemnonJack WangVerified account
@thejackwanghttps://twitter.com/thejackwang
https://m.facebook.com/ocrrams/I guess this stuff could be a way to get news about the Rams.
AgamemnonThis is a video report after Rams’ practice June 10. The link in the previous post is a report on June 8
AgamemnonHere is what I think. If the Rams cut Foles they are on the hook for everything, including the last part of the signing bonus for 2017(1M) and his salary for this year, which is guaranteed. If they trade him, the other team will assume his salary for this year, 1.75M. The bonus for 2017 is probably accelerated to this years cap.
When all is said and done, including replacing a roster spot, the Rams save virtually no money, but they would receive a draft choice. imo
The other team would owe Foles his contract salary for this year, 1.75M with an option for 2017 of ~11M. This would happen in a trade or if the other team picked Foles off waivers. If they wait until after waivers to sign Foles, the Rams save nada and the new team makes a brand new contract with Foles.
AgamemnonI believe, unless Goff gets hurt, the plan is to start him in the first game and he never comes out, no matter what Fisher says. 😉
AgamemnonMannion is going to be a good QB. It might not be with the Rams, but I have a lot of faith in him.
Keenum is a FA next year. We will probably need Mannion at some point, unless Goff never gets hurt.
Agamemnonhttp://www.turfshowtimes.com/2016/6/9/11894044/2016-los-angeles-rams-cam-thomas-scouting-report
New Rams DT Cam Thomas Q&A With Bolts from the Blue, Behind the Steel Curtain
By Sean Wilkinson
@Papa_Lurch on Jun 9, 2016, 9:42a 5
Charles LeClaire-USA TODAY SportsLos Angeles marks Cam Thomas’ third stop in his NFL career. Let’s get to know him a bit.
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PinEditor’s Note – these interviews were conducted before the news that fellow Rams DT Louis Trinca-Pasat tore his MCL and ACL.
~~~
The Rams made several roster moves this week – one of which was adding former Chargers and Steelers DT Cam Thomas. We reached out to the managers of two SBNation communities from his former teams, Richard Wade from Bolts from the Blue (the home for fans of the San Diego Chargers) and Jeff Hartman of Behind the Steel Curtain (for fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers), to get some insight about what type of players the Rams were getting:
The Rams didn’t see much of Thomas during his time in the AFC. How would you describe his style of play?
Wade:
Cam Thomas is a decent run stuffer. His pass rushing ability is mediocre.
Hartman:
Thomas is a versatile player who can play both 3-4 DE as well as nose tackle. He was more of a depth defensive lineman for the Steelers, but did flex into the nose tackle position when an injury required him to assist there. Other than position, Thomas is your standard 3-4 defensive lineman. Not ridiculously athletic, but takes up blockers to allow the linebackers to make plays behind him.
Thomas has played both NT and DE in a 3-4 his entire career – first with the Chargers then with the Steelers. At 6-4 and a massive 330 pounds he has the build of a traditional DT. Do you think his ability transfers to the Rams 4-3 base defense?
Wade:
He’s a better fit as a tackle in an even front than he was as 0-technique in San Diego. The position asked more of him than he had to give and he could not hold up.
Hartman:
Tough question considering I didn’t see him in a 4-3 set while in Pittsburgh. Thomas is a player who is large, but not very athletic. He tends to get pushed off the ball easily, and his inside pass rushing moves are not the greatest. He is best against the run, but any type of movement which requires him to break down laterally will be a challenge for Thomas.
The Rams had a lot of leadership leave the defense when James Laurinaitis and Chris long were released this offseason. Is Thomas the type of player who likes to step up and fill that role?
Wade:
I’ve never seen him as a leader. He was, at least during his time in San Diego, much more of a “me-first” player, if anything.
Hartman:
If he is that type of player, he never showed it in Pittsburgh. In his time with the team he rarely saw the field with any regularity. Relegated to a backup position, Thomas simply wasn’t able to crack the starting lineup. The same situation could be true with the Rams’ stout defensive front. I will say he was never an issue in the locker room and off the field. His veteran leadership could help a young group like the Rams.
As a writer who has covered Thomas, what type of impact do you think he can have with stars like Aaron Donald and Robert Quinn playing alongside him?
Wade:
Thomas is a role player. He will probably have more success with Los Angeles because in that defense he won’t be asked to play the kind of snaps that he did here and Pittsburgh. Playing next players the caliber of Donald and Quinn cannot help but make him look better than he ever has before.
Hartman:
Thomas will know his responsibilities. When playing alongside guys like Donald and Quinn, you need to just do your job. Eat up the blockers and let them attack the backfield. Thomas will be able to do that for the Rams’ defense. Unfortunately, Thomas does not display many playmaking characteristics which will impact the team on a regular basis.
A special thanks to Richard and Jeff for taking the time to answer these questions.
Agamemnon
http://overthecap.com/calculator/los-angeles-rams/
This will do the math for you, if you want to look at projections.The Rams hit that point this year. They had to let a couple guys go that they wanted to keep, Jenkins and McCleod. When that happens they will have to replace the talent losses by using the draft, FAs, udras, comp picks, and trades.
In 2019, the Rams have 3 players under contract.
They will also have the draft class from this year after they sign them.By 2019 the roster will be who they drafted in 2016, 17, 18, and 19, plus whoever they can keep or acquire by other methods.
Agamemnon
