reactions to the super bowl game

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  • #97779
    snowman
    Participant

    Goff looked overwhelmed at times, confused most of the time

    Offensive line did not give him enough time to throw

    Even Zeurlein hooked a makeable FG

    Defensive line did not get enough penetration up the middle on Brady

    #97782
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Wade’s defense really showed up during the playoffs. Thirteen points for Brady, in the Super Bowl — are you kidding me?

    Ah well.

    They need to have Kupp healthy next year. They need to have Gurley healthy next year. And they need to get some depth on the OLine. Thats about it.

    w
    v

    All of that is true.

    I’m hoping the Rams go in a bit of a different direction on defense next season.

    Get bigger up the gut. Find a massive hogmolly for DT, and much heftier ILB, and a Strong Safety big enough to play linebacker, and fast enough to play corner.

    Bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic.

    To me, their smaller linebackers, in general, especially Barron, haven’t even given them the usual benefits of that smaller size: Speed, agility and great coverage ability. I like Littleton, and he played really well in the Super Bowl and in several other games this season. But he gets “beat” too often as well.

    I’d rather see the smaller speed guys as outside backers, and much bigger run-stuffers inside. Ideally, of course, they’d find hidden gems who can do it all. But that’s rare.

    The offense needs major upgrades along the line, in my view. They wore down by the time the Super Bowl came along. It just seemed like their blocking abilities disappeared.

    As mentioned last night . . . the game baffled me.

    ;>)

    #97783
    Eternal Ramnation
    Participant

    The Gurley thing is wearing on me. If he is really fine and you don’t use him that is inept coaching and now the Superbowl is over there is no reason to hide an injury to anyone yet both McVay and Gurley continue to deny.

    #97785
    Billy_T
    Participant

    The Gurley thing is wearing on me. If he is really fine and you don’t use him that is inept coaching and now the Superbowl is over there is no reason to hide an injury to anyone yet both McVay and Gurley continue to deny.

    He’s very likely hurting.

    I’ve forgotten the game, but I think it happened when he was tackled pretty far out of bounds, pulled down from the neck with his legs, and especially his ankles, out of whack.

    I’m guessing it’s a high ankle sprain. They’re notorious for lingering.

    #97788
    zn
    Moderator

    The Gurley thing is wearing on me. If he is really fine and you don’t use him that is inept coaching and now the Superbowl is over there is no reason to hide an injury to anyone yet both McVay and Gurley continue to deny.

    He’s very likely hurting.

    I’ve forgotten the game, but I think it happened when he was tackled pretty far out of bounds, pulled down from the neck with his legs, and especially his ankles, out of whack.

    I’m guessing it’s a high ankle sprain. They’re notorious for lingering.

    He was hurt initially in the Oakland game.

    Sounds like a minor nagging issue. It’s not an INJURY per se. No one is denying anything–they have already talked about inflammation. Sometimes he can go, sometimes he’s less effective. There was an MRI so there’s no structural damage. That leaves a lot of possibilities…tendinitis, a floating fragment, a lingering sprain. All of which means he can play but not be 100%.

    #97790
    Billy_T
    Participant

    The Gurley thing is wearing on me. If he is really fine and you don’t use him that is inept coaching and now the Superbowl is over there is no reason to hide an injury to anyone yet both McVay and Gurley continue to deny.

    He’s very likely hurting.

    I’ve forgotten the game, but I think it happened when he was tackled pretty far out of bounds, pulled down from the neck with his legs, and especially his ankles, out of whack.

    I’m guessing it’s a high ankle sprain. They’re notorious for lingering.

    He was hurt initially in the Oakland game.

    Sounds like a minor nagging issue. It’s not an INJURY per se. No one is denying anything–they have already talked about inflammation. Sometimes he can go, sometimes he’s less effective. There was an MRI so there’s no structural damage. That leaves a lot of possibilities…tendinitis, a floating fragment, a lingering sprain. All of which means he can play but not be 100%.

    ZN,

    Yeah. That makes sense. More and more people are writing about that.

    We can only hope that he heals over the offseason, and that this can somehow be managed better than this past season. It may not be possible. But the Rams need a relatively healthy Gurley if they want to maximize this offense.

    On my island of misfit toys again, but I think McVay should at least consider some jumbo sets next year. Not saying go with that only. Mix it in. An extra lineman or two. Perhaps three TEs. Mix it up.

    Analysts keep telling us that he gives the same look but does variations from there. Martz gave different looks, with mostly the same personnel for each of those looks. Maybe a bit of both?

    #97791
    Zooey
    Participant

    What I don’t understand is why – if Gurley was well enough for 10 or 12 touches – why isn’t he good for 20? I hope it’s not his meniscus, as someone suggested quite plausibly.

    I think it’s a different game if Kupp is in there. He is the Rams’ Edelman…that guy who just gets open somehow. He would have – at least – moved the chains a couple of times to keep the D off the field, and improve the field position game.

    One other thing…and I haven’t seen anybody reference this yet, and I thought it was a big momoment – I would have taken one of those penalties with 2:25 left in the game to push NE out of FG range. I don’t get it. I mean…from right there where it happened, declining the penalty meant NE lost a down, and has a 50-yd FG to make. But they have 2 downs to improve on that position – which they did. Now the Rams are down 2 scores with 1:12 to play. Seems to me a no-brainer to try to push them back and stop them and getting the ball back with – say – a minute to play down by one score.

    There are a bazillion articles out there. I’m sure somebody has addressed this, but I don’t understand that call at all.

    #97792
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Kupp also wins contested catches — a lot. That’s Cooks’ biggest flaw. He rarely does.

    He obviously has super speed, is very quick, gutsy, will go over the middle. But if the ball is contested, he’s generally not coming down with it.

    Goff throws a lot of passes that generate that scenario, too. He often throws with a defender already on the receiver, or through tight windows where they get there with the pass. More than most QBs, he needs receivers that win 50/50 passes.

    Kupp was the guy for that. Reynolds, despite his height, really isn’t that guy yet. Though I like what I’ve seen from him otherwise, and I think he runs hard after the catch, even with some violence.

    This offseason will be crucial. I think they need a serious revaluation of their personnel and how best to optimize their talents. For most of the season, they had remarkable success. But against really good defenses . . . they mostly struggled.

    #97793
    zn
    Moderator

    What I don’t understand is why – if Gurley was well enough for 10 or 12 touches – why isn’t he good for 20?

    Because with a nagging condition like that, you can inflame it by playing. He can start out fairly okay and get worse after a few runs. Or, sometimes, not. It’s a completely “in the moment” thing. When I had tendinitis of the elbow, for example, there were days when I couldn’t do anything, even type on a keyboard. There were days when I could do lots of things, though there was lingering lowkey pain. And there were days when I would start out able to do lots of things, but it would wear down fast and I would have to quit doing whatever was making it worse.

    #97795
    Eternal Ramnation
    Participant

    That’s what bothers me. If it is a nagging tendonitis,high ankle sprain or anything else end the speculation be honest and tell us. Belichik didn’t take away Gurley he took the big pass plays away. McVay took Gurley away.

    #97802
    zn
    Moderator

    That’s what bothers me. If it is a nagging tendonitis,high ankle sprain or anything else end the speculation be honest and tell us. Belichik didn’t take away Gurley he took the big pass plays away. McVay took Gurley away.

    But they did tell us. They said inflammation of the knee.

    They had MRI and found no structural damage. So we know that too.

    It’s like;y they don;t know the exact cause. Not without a scope.

    And McVay didn’t take Gurley away. Gurley’s nagging condition took Gurley away. It’s the kind of thing where you can think he’s good when the game starts but it doesn’t stay that way. He says himself, he can go out and play but doesn;’t know how long he can last with it.

    ==

    Left knee initially bothered Rams’ Todd Gurley after season opener

    Lindsey Thiry

    Dec 27, 2018

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25627677/todd-gurley-los-angeles-rams-knee-first-issue-week-1

    THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. — Los Angeles Rams coach Sean McVay said Thursday that Todd Gurley’s left knee hasn’t just bothered the star running back recently.

    Gurley’s knee also was an issue after a season-opening victory over the Oakland Raiders, when Gurley rushed for 108 yards and caught three passes for 39 yards and a touchdown.

    “It was a similar situation,” McVay said.

    Gurley said Thursday that he, “Felt like s—” after the Monday night game in Week 1.

    “It was bad,” Gurley said. “I was contemplating on giving the Rams back their money and everything. It was bad. It was real bad.”

    Before the season, the Rams awarded Gurley, the defending NFL Offensive Player of the Year, a four-year extension worth $60 million, with $45 million guaranteed, to make him the highest-paid running back in NFL history.

    Despite the pain, Gurley felt in the aftermath of the opener, he said that his knee felt better two days later.

    That hasn’t been the case with his latest knee issue, which includes inflammation and soreness that has lingered since a Week 15 matchup against the Philadelphia Eagles.

    Gurley was inactive last Sunday in a road win over the Arizona Cardinals, and his status is again in question for the regular-season finale against the San Francisco 49ers on Sunday at home. A victory over the 49ers would secure the Rams a first-round bye in the playoffs.

    “Some days you wake up feeling pain,” Gurley said. “Some days you wake up feeling much better.”

    Gurley was sidelined for a series in the third quarter before he returned to the field in a 30-23 loss to the Eagles. He said there was no single play that caused the discomfort in his knee.

    “Came back on the sidelines and just you can tell when something doesn’t feel right, you know your body,” said Gurley, who has rushed for 1,251 yards this season. “Obviously, kind of went back in the game and played. Did what I could do and then just kind of dealt with the consequences the next day.”

    Gurley sat out of practice last week but participated in a pregame workout ahead of last Sunday’s game in Arizona. After the workout, Gurley and the Rams’ medical staff determined it was in his best interest to sit out.

    “I could’ve played,” said Gurley, who has scored a league-best 21 touchdowns. “But who knows how long I would’ve been able to play.”

    In his absence, the Rams started veteran C.J. Anderson, whom they had signed only five days earlier. Anderson rushed for 167 yards and a touchdown.

    Gurley has not practiced this week, and it’s uncertain if he will test his knee before pregame warmups Sunday.

    “It’s just one of those day-by-day things,” Gurley said. “I’m just going to have to see when Sunday gets here.

    #97807
    Eternal Ramnation
    Participant

    If you listen to Gurley and McVay’s post game interviews they both claim he’s healthy not one word about inflammation flaring up Gurley didn’t ask out. I guess we’ll hear about it if he gets scoped but I would think they would be on that pretty quickly now. Why wouldn’t they tell us? I had inflammation in my knee once, it was gout and it sucks, big as a basketball it was.

    #97814
    zn
    Moderator

    If you listen to Gurley and McVay’s post game interviews they both claim he’s healthy not one word about inflammation flaring up Gurley didn’t ask out. I guess we’ll hear about it if he gets scoped but I would think they would be on that pretty quickly now. Why wouldn’t they tell us? I had inflammation in my knee once, it was gout and it sucks, big as a basketball it was.

    They have already talked about inflammation, on Dec 27th, and have not taken that back. The cat is out of the bag.

    It’s documented, out there, and in the open.

    Since they talked about it there have been regular reports about whether he could practice or not or how much etc.

    If it’s something like floating cartilage that kind of thing does not just go away overnight,

    #97830
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    Still not over feeling the depression of this loss. I’m still hoping I will be alive to see the Rams win another Super Bowl before I ever die.

    #97832
    zn
    Moderator

    I’m still hoping I will be alive to see the Rams win another Super Bowl before I ever die.

    I don’t see it that way at all.

    I see them going a couple of times in the next 4-5 years.

    They have some work to do but they also have a core of top players.

    #97833
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    I’m still hoping I will be alive to see the Rams win another Super Bowl before I ever die.

    I don’t see it that way at all.

    I see them going a couple of times in the next 4-5 years.

    They have some work to do but they also have a core of top players.

    So I won’t be alive to see them win another Super Bowl.

    #97834
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    I’m still hoping I will be alive to see the Rams win another Super Bowl before I ever die.

    I don’t see it that way at all.

    I see them going a couple of times in the next 4-5 years.

    They have some work to do but they also have a core of top players.

    So I won’t be alive to see them win another Super Bowl? I’m sad

    #97836
    zn
    Moderator

    So I won’t be alive to see them win another Super Bowl? I’m sad

    Not sure what you;re saying Jack. Are you okay? Don’t be coy, speak up.

    #97837
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    So I won’t be alive to see them win another Super Bowl? I’m sad

    Not sure what you;re saying Jack. Are you okay? Don’t be coy, speak up.

    You just said the Rams won’t win another Super Bowl. All of us Ram fans put trust in your words. That’s all.

    #97838
    wv
    Participant

    I’ve watched some media-vids. The usual pundits. I havent heard ‘too’ many idiotic things, but there is a general…oh…lack of nuance. I mean, yes, Belichick is a great coach, but its also true he cam within one bad call or one play of losing that Chief game. And young McVay’s team was right there with the Pats in the 4th quarter.

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned about playoff football, its that there just aint much separation among the teams. A play here, a play there, is always gonna be the difference. Playoff football is just like that. Usually. Unless you are the 85 Bears, etc.

    I’m not even sure the Pats are the best team this year. If they played the Chiefs again, who would be favored?

    I do think the Pats and Belichick have been the best over the last two decades, but the ‘separation’ in each individual year is never that much. Thats my point. The separation is very small. A play here, a play there. But man, they are the best at holding tight to that tiny separation. They’ve been doing it forever now. Same ole Patriots.

    w
    v

    #97839
    Billy_T
    Participant

    A play here, and a play there. Exactly. It’s even tighter than that. It’s literally a game of inches and smaller units than that . . . and split seconds, and smaller than that. Defenders missing a pass by a fraction of an inch, less than a split second late, early for an interception. No coach can dictate those things or gameplan for them. IMO, saying a coach is a “genius” because he barely wins a game of such tiny, fractional happenstances . . . . Well, I see that as hyperbole.

    The wondrous thing about football is its physicality in the moment, and how so often “anything can happen.” The cliches have a basis in fact, especially “On any given Sunday.”

    I’ve always put far, far more stock in what players do on the field than any coaching game of chess. Yeah, the latter is critical. But the players make the game what it is. They make plays by going against script, not by following what the coach draws up on the blackboard.

    To me, Belichek is good, not “great.” And he’s no “genius.” Far too many close games that could have gone either way. Personally, I reserve the “genius” level for someone who dominates, obliterates, wipes out his opponents.

    #97840
    Billy_T
    Participant

    I’d also say that the Pats weren’t the best team in football this past year, at any time along the way.

    The Rams had their time as the best. The Chiefs, Saints, Bears, Chargers, even the Colts for a stretch. I can’t think of a single stretch for the Pats. If Belicheck were a “genius,” that would not have been the case.

    This all probably sounds like sour grapes, but I thought this prior to the Super Bowl. To be honest, I think the Rams had fallen back a bit heading into the Dallas game and weren’t even the best in the NFC. They showed they were back in the hunt again in that game. Fell back a bit against the Saints. It was highly questionable, to me, going into the Super Bowl, whether or not the Rams were the team that should be representing the NFC. Not because of “the call.” Eff all of that nonsense. But because their offense seemed to have regressed on balance.

    The Rams of the first seven or eight games? Goff in those games? Best team in the NFL, easily. Best QB in the league. But not later. They lost something along the way after a dozen games or so.

    My guess is that McVay will figure this out this offseason.

    #97842
    wv
    Participant

    So Cooks was interfered with on the TD pass. Noncall.

    The football gods are cruel.

    btw, Whitworth deleted his twitter account, Gurley not talkin:

    #97843
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    One other thing…and I haven’t seen anybody reference this yet, and I thought it was a big momoment – I would have taken one of those penalties with 2:25 left in the game to push NE out of FG range. I don’t get it.

    if i’m remembering the same one, romo explained it. if the rams had taken either of the penalities, the clock would continue to roll. by not taking the penalty. they in effect gave themselves another timeout. otherwise, pats take it down to 2 minutes. milk even more time off the clock.

    romo i believe asked the guest ref for confirmation of this and he confirmed that romo was right in his logic.

    it was more a matter of preserving time. a better chance of scoring and then getting a quick onside and scoring again.

    either way the chances were miniscule.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by InvaderRam.
    #97845
    zn
    Moderator

    You just said the Rams won’t win another Super Bowl.

    No I said they would win a couple of them in the next few years.

    #97846
    wv
    Participant

    You just said the Rams won’t win another Super Bowl.

    No I said they would win a couple of them in the next few years.

    =====================

    Only a couple in the next few years?

    And you call yourself a ram fan.

    w
    v

    #97853
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    one thing mcvay has to do is come up with a counterpunch.

    all the rams had was the 3 wr sets. i keep reading how belichick sold out to defend against this set, and the rams had no answer.

    they gotta be able to mix it up more next year. if higbee and everett aren’t the answer, they gotta find it in the off-season.

    i know part of the success was due to the rams having no running game, but they still gotta switch it up.

    and another thing. no one really talks about how crappy brady played in that game. and he had a running game which goff did not.

    #97861
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    To me, Belichek is good, not “great.” And he’s no “genius.” Far too many close games that could have gone either way. Personally, I reserve the “genius” level for someone who dominates, obliterates, wipes out his opponents.

    who would that be then?

    i’m sorry. i hate belichick as much as anybody. but 9 superbowl appearances and 6 victories?

    and this last one with brady playing like crap?

    he’s proven his greatness. i mean he’s a bastard, but he’s gotten his teams to play at a high level for years.

    probably the greatest dynasty in the modern era of sports i’d say.

    i’d be happy if mcvay could achieve even half of his success.

    i still think mcvay got outcoached. the more i read the more i’m convinced. he’s like a boxer with a great right hand but once you figure it out you can negate the right. and he’s got nothing to counter with. he’s gotta figure it out. i think he will.

    belichick is the opposite. his teams are able to adapt. but the guy’s been coaching forever. his resume is older than mcvay.

    mcvay has to come up with a counter to the 11 personnel. teams will be studying tape of the superbowl, the chi game. the det game. the phi game. he’s gotta come up with an answer or the rams will regress. i think he will.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by InvaderRam.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by InvaderRam.
    #97867
    zn
    Moderator

    jrry32

    McVay was outcoached. Goff struggled. The OL struggled. The WRs made some costly mistakes. The running game never got going. Simply put, Belichick used the two weeks to devise a strategy that went against his tendencies. McVay needed to do the same. He didn’t. That’s what made our defense so effective. Wade went against his tendencies and confused Brady. Well, Belichick did the same thing. McVay didn’t counter.

    They played more M2M than any other team this year. In this game, they came out and played the sort of zone defense the Bears used against us. We got fooled, and McVay didn’t do enough to adjust (or adjust until it was too late). It was a brilliant plan. It had us confused all night.

    On offense, I didn’t like where we failed to adjust. McVay made an adjustment when he realized they were using dummy looks to slow our offense down. The problem is that he never adjusted away from his tendencies. That’s the one thing he needed to do. Wade understood on defense that you beat Brady by confusing him with looks he’s not expecting based on your tendencies and what you’re showing pre-snap. McVay just didn’t do enough of that.

    Gurley was clearly hurt. It was unfortunately obvious watching the game. He didn’t have the cutting ability that makes him such a threat in the passing game. You could see him visibly limping. On that throwaway Goff made where Gurley lined up at WR, you could see that he didn’t have much juice coming out of his break and was limping on the way to the sidelines. He might have a partial tear of a ligament, but that sounds scarier than it is. It sucks that we essentially lost both him and Kupp. Kupp would have shredded that zone defense. Goff was down his two most important blitz/pressure-beaters with Kupp and Gurley’s injuries. You can’t just scheme that away. We did our best to cover it up, but with the OL struggling, it got exposed. Oh well.

    Goff is one of the youngest QBs to start a Super Bowl. If you go through and look at the other youngest guys, none of them played well. In fact Goff is the FOURTH youngest QB to start a Super Bowl behind Dan Marino, Ben Roethlisberger, and David Woodley. All three of those QBs played poorly in the Super Bowl. Ben is the only one who won the Super Bowl, and he posted worse numbers in his first SB than Goff.

    Goff was a tick late on some throws. Yes, that’s what happens when the opposing defense has you not trusting what you’re seeing. He also threw multiple 50/50 balls. Our WRs didn’t catch them.

    Peyton Manning was crapping bed against New England at 27 and 28 years old. I can’t even imagine how many observers and fans would have been ripping him apart.

    Simply put, a QB making the Super Bowl at Goff’s age is rare. A QB playing well in the Super Bowl at Goff’s age is unheard of. It’s extraordinarily difficult to play well as a young QB in the Super Bowl. However, the good thing about this is that it’s a learning experience for Goff. He gets to come back stronger next time for having experienced this already.Even Brady didn’t play well in his Super Bowl against us when he was Goff’s age. Nevertheless, when we were down 10-3 in the 4th quarter, Goff threw a perfect pass to Cooks for what should have been the game-tying TD. Cooks failed to catch it. He threw the Int on the next play. Had Cooks caught that first ball, Goff is being celebrated as a hero and a clutch QB. We might even have won that game.

    IMO, a big reason why our OL struggled the way it did is because they were getting fooled just like Goff was. The Patriots were purposefully showing one look before the snap before changing the defense post-snap. Belichick sent in two plays. The first was a dummy look to show before the snap. The second was the real play to run after the snap. They were putting a bunch of bodies around the LOS and rushing 5 with stunts. Our OL seemed to be confused all game, which left free runners going after Goff.

    I was happy with how we competed. I wasn’t happy with how our offense played, but they freaking competed.

    #97868
    Billy_T
    Participant

    who would that be then?

    i’m sorry. i hate belichick as much as anybody. but 9 superbowl appearances and 6 victories?

    and this last one with brady playing like crap?

    he’s proven his greatness. i mean he’s a bastard, but he’s gotten his teams to play at a high level for years.

    probably the greatest dynasty in the modern era of sports i’d say.

    i’d be happy if mcvay could achieve even half of his success.

    i still think mcvay got outcoached. the more i read the more i’m convinced. he’s like a boxer with a great right hand but once you figure it out you can negate the right. and he’s got nothing to counter with. he’s gotta figure it out. i think he will.

    belichick is the opposite. his teams are able to adapt. but the guy’s been coaching forever. his resume is older than mcvay.

    mcvay has to come up with a counter to the 11 personnel. teams will be studying tape of the superbowl, the chi game. the det game. the phi game. he’s gotta come up with an answer or the rams will regress. i think he will.

    I’m perfectly comfortable being on an island on this one.

    To me, players, on the field, win or lose games, not coaches. Yes, coaches have a very big role, but the role of the players, in the moment, down to those split seconds and fractions of inches, matter far more. Their athleticism is the difference. Not chess games by the coaches. That’s my take.

    And in this particular game, the Rams weren’t getting it done from a kinetic, athletic point of view. I have no doubt that McVay drew up plays that could have worked, if the players on the field had just done what they had done throughout the majority of the season. They didn’t. Goff, for instance, had too many poorly thrown passes, passed into traffic once too many times, took too long in the pocket, and his O-line didn’t give him the time he needed. There were no magical plays — that I remember — from Rams players who had consistently made them during the season . . . like Everett’s tight-rope run along the sidelines for a TD, or Gurley’s version of that on the opposite side of the field.

    Coaches don’t draw that up on the blackboard. Players either make magic on the field or they don’t. The team with the most athletic moments wins. Not the team with the best X and O guy.

    Just my take.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Billy_T.
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