Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › Kiper sees possible value in Rams waiting to draft a quarterback
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Isiah58.
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February 22, 2016 at 9:57 pm #39466
znModeratorKiper sees possible value in Rams waiting to draft a quarterback
Nick Wagoner
http://www.fanly.me/c/VsJQoZIY07
EARTH CITY, Mo. — The Los Angeles Rams once again find themselves in a sort of no man’s land when it comes to quarterbacks and the NFL draft.
After a 7-9 campaign in 2015, the Rams continued their tradition of being not quite good enough to turn the corner and make the playoffs but not quite bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a franchise signal-caller.
So it is that they head to this week’s scouting combine in Indianapolis with the 15th overall pick and no guarantees that they can land the top quarterback they so desperately need. That’s not to say they can’t find one at No. 15 or even later as there are plenty of examples of successful quarterbacks drafted outside the top five.
But in looking at this year’s draft, there doesn’t appear to be a Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota available. And while players like Cal’s Jared Goff and North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz could go in the top 10 or even the top five, neither player is thought to be the level of prospect of either of last year’s top two choices.
Which means that drafting 15th will likely leave the Rams with little in the way of a solution to their quarterback quandary unless they choose to chase a prospect who might not be ready to play right away.
ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. recently released his second mock draft and decided to send Mississippi receiver Laquon Treadwell to Los Angeles instead of Memphis quarterback Paxton Lynch, the player he chose for the Rams in his first edition. In fact, Kiper dropped Lynch out of his first round altogether.
“I had Paxton Lynch there,” Kiper said. “That would be the pick that would make sense if you want to develop a quarterback. If you have somebody that you’re OK with — Paxton Lynch is not going to be ready right away — and you would be better to watch for a little bit. I think if you look at Treadwell, if he runs a good 40, he could go the top 10. I put him at 15 to be conservative knowing that speed is not his forte, but he’s a great player. So if you get Treadwell then you could maybe come back and there’s some second-round quarterbacks who could be intriguing.”
Kiper’s opinion that Lynch could take some time to get up to speed is not singular. The book on Lynch is that he has all the physical tools to succeed but he’s coming from an offense that didn’t ask him to make NFL progressions or push the ball downfield with any regularity. While still intrigued, Kiper currently views Lynch as a better option for a team early in the second round or late in the first.
But Lynch isn’t the only prospect who could be available at that time. He lists Michigan State’s Connor Cook, Penn State’s Christian Hackenberg and Mississippi State’s Dak Prescott as other potential second-round options.
The Rams have two second-round picks, so it’s possible one or more of those players could be available or, if the Rams wanted to ensure they had their pick of the litter, they’d be well positioned to package those picks to move up to get the guy they want.
“And who is to say Lynch couldn’t be an early two?” Kiper said. “I didn’t think Derek Carr would be an early two when he got drafted. Andy Dalton, a lot of people had him in the first round, early second. I look at which quarterback could be a viable second-round pick and I just gave you several.”
Kiper even sees value at quarterback beyond the first two rounds, perhaps more so than in other years.
“You’re looking at middle-round guys that are intriguing, would be guys like Brandon Allen from Arkansas would be a nice pick at that point,” Kiper said. “Vernon Adams from Oregon. Jacoby Brissett [of] NC State, Cardale Jones [of] Ohio State. So there’s going to be a lot of guys in play, I think, in that fourth-, fifth-round area this year
February 22, 2016 at 10:10 pm #39467znModeratorKiper even sees value at quarterback beyond the first two rounds, perhaps more so than in other years.
“You’re looking at middle-round guys that are intriguing, would be guys like Brandon Allen from Arkansas would be a nice pick at that point,” Kiper said.
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There’s 2nd round options and 3rd-4th rounds options.
Okay, count me in.
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February 23, 2016 at 8:46 am #39468
wvParticipantKiper even sees value at quarterback beyond the first two rounds, perhaps more so than in other years&
“You’re looking at middle-round guys that are intriguing, would be guys like Brandon Allen from Arkansas would be a nice pick at that point,” Kiper said.
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There’s 2nd round options and 3rd-4th rounds options.
Okay, count me in.
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Yeah, one reasonable scenario seems to be
draft BPA with the first pick (DE? WR?)
and find some BAWs in the second round
(best available weapons) and draft
a QB somewhere in that 2nd to 4th round area.Which leaves Keenum the likely starter
for year one of the LA Rams 2.0w
vFebruary 23, 2016 at 9:37 am #39469
nittany ramModeratorKiper even sees value at quarterback beyond the first two rounds, perhaps more so than in other years&
“You’re looking at middle-round guys that are intriguing, would be guys like Brandon Allen from Arkansas would be a nice pick at that point,” Kiper said.
—
There’s 2nd round options and 3rd-4th rounds options.
Okay, count me in.
.
Yeah, one reasonable scenario seems to be
draft BPA with the first pick (DE? WR?)
and find some BAWs in the second round
(best available weapons) and draft
a QB somewhere in that 2nd to 4th round area.Which leaves Keenum the likely starter
for year one of the LA Rams 2.0w
vI’m not thrilled with the QB situation this season. Keenum doesn’t give me the warm fuzzies but unfortunately he’s the best option currently on the roster.
I want Aaron Rodgers.
Unfortunately the Rams blew that possibility when the cut Cook. Instead of being able to force the Packers to trade Rodgers for Cook now the Packers can just go out and sign him without giving up anything.
Sometimes I think Snead must have been sick the day they taught General Managerism in General Manager school.
February 23, 2016 at 4:33 pm #39474
Isiah58ParticipantIn the last two weeks I have probably heard fifty times by various radio, tv, and print commentators the same theme over and over again when speaking about the Los Angeles Rams in ’16: “Moderately talented, but going nowhere until they get the QB situation right.” Now I tend to view with disdain most of these voices as poorly informed in general about the Rams, but the overriding thesis is so prevalent that one has to take notice. It is reasonable to ponder how many games the Rams would have won last year if you replace Aaron Rogers with Case Keenum? (My guess is a minimum of three more wins)
I also do not subscribe to the theory that there is added pressure to win now that the team has moved, and in fact while I am in the minority I believe that the team will enjoy a honeymoon period coming back to LA. One need only look to the 56K deposits for season tickets a mere three weeks after the move. This isn’t just game seats, but commitments to buy an entire season worth of tickets before there has been any marketing whatsoever in the area. Thus, while the Rams would love to enjoy some early success, I believe they can’t, and won’t, abandon their approach to build the team the right way and will therefore refrain from quick fixes.
I also believe that the Rams would like Fisher and Snead to succeed, to maintain continuity, and to avoid the mess of a regime change for the sake of change. Fisher does not act like a coach that is coaching for his job, even though he may be. I personally think that Snead and Fisher are doing an admirable job and hope they get their contracts renewed. I am confident when they draft players now that they will turn out to be good players, and for the most part they have. No team is perfect in drafting, but I like what I have seen from this group and hope it continues.
These three points support my belief that the Rams will trade up this year to get a quarterback. Possibly a big trade up. The reason for this is that they cannot be taken seriously until they have a QB that people respect. Someone they can put on the game day program. Someone that can be in the commercials and provide hope for the future. Someone to make them relevant again. In the past few drafts, there have been more teams wanting to move down than up. The Rams brass have not been afraid to spend valuable draft capital to get their man, or make bold moves (see Tavon Austin). I think they will make another bold move and go up and get one of the QBs in this draft and not worry about the cost.
I understand the argument as well about there being no plug-and-play QB in this draft, the argument that using those picks to select better players around the QB is more prudent, and the perils of reaching for a QB in the first round and how that can set a team back significantly. But I just get the feeling the time is now to make that move. I think they will try to get Goff or Wentz if they can, pay the price, and try to re-create what Oakland has done with Carr.
Isiah 58
“Marge, don't discourage the boy! Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel.” - Homer Simpson
February 23, 2016 at 4:50 pm #39475Isiah58ParticipantI guess the one thing that I would follow up with is that I have read many people who are advocating signing RGIII as a possible QB solution. While I was impressed with his athleticism in his first year, he does not look like the same guy at all after his injury. More importantly, I cannot get out of my mind this article in the Washington Post.
Link-
This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Isiah58.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Isiah58.
“Marge, don't discourage the boy! Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel.” - Homer Simpson
February 23, 2016 at 8:25 pm #39482wvParticipantI dunno. Of all the ‘reasonable scenarios’
I’ve read and thought about — trading up for Goff
or Wentz, strikes me as the riskiest.And would one of them start next season? A rookie?
Maybe that plan would work, but personally, i like
the idea of using the top pick on a WR or DE
and then maybe one of the second rounders or a third
rounder on a QB. I just want to keep stocking up
on playmakers until they can find the
most-excellent-QB.Course what do i know. I have no idea
which QB is going to be the diamond
next year.w
vFebruary 23, 2016 at 8:58 pm #39492Isiah58ParticipantWell, I suppose they need to be convinced that their target QB is going to be “the one.” If not, then they will go another direction. But I don’t think they are looking for the next Andrew Luck. You could wait twenty years for that. They do need a guy who can be a top 15 guy. That is probably the floor, but they don’t even have that and can’t buy one of those either, because nobody has two top 15 QBs and thus have a spare to trade. I think they need to go into ’16 with a hopeful top 15 QB, even if he doesn’t start next year. I’m ok with that. I think the fans would be ok with it, knowing the future guy is on the roster. I also think it is worth the risk, because drafting a WR or DE at 15 is great but they have shown an ability to find DEs lower in the draft and they have shown NO ability to draft WRs no matter where they draft. New England doesn’t even have a first round pick, and nobody thinks it will affect their chances in ’16 one bit. Why? Because they have a QB.
If the Rams moved up and drafted Wentz, and said he will play when he is ready like Gurley last year, I think the vibe around this team would change pretty dramatically. There would be hope for the future (until he showed that he was another Nick Foles of course). That is what they are missing right now. They have talent, but not the hope.
“Marge, don't discourage the boy! Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel.” - Homer Simpson
February 23, 2016 at 9:12 pm #39493Isiah58ParticipantFebruary 23, 2016 at 9:21 pm #39496
InvaderRamModeratorI guess the one thing that I would follow up with is that I have read many people who are advocating signing RGIII as a possible QB solution. While I was impressed with his athleticism in his first year, he does not look like the same guy at all after his injury. More importantly, I cannot get out of my mind this article in the Washington Post.
Link
just for some context that game cooley was grading was griffin’s second game back after a 6 game absence. got knocked with an ankle injury 2 games into his first season under gruden.
griffin finished that season with an 86.9 rating compared to cousins’ 86.4 rating.
it’s a pretty brutal assessment for sure and i don’t doubt that a lot of it is true, but it’s just one game. i still think he’s got promise.
February 23, 2016 at 9:25 pm #39497znModeratorThis just came from Mayock:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cb8dFzTUUAA6Nhk.jpg
I feel the exact same way.
February 23, 2016 at 11:22 pm #39499InvaderRamModeratorpaxton lynch is an interesting prospect. reading about him reminds me of roethlisberger. big and a strong arm but some mobility as well.
February 24, 2016 at 8:45 am #39510znModeratorI understand the argument as well about there being no plug-and-play QB in this draft, the argument that using those picks to select better players around the QB is more prudent, and the perils of reaching for a QB in the first round and how that can set a team back significantly. But I just get the feeling the time is now to make that move. I think they will try to get Goff or Wentz if they can, pay the price, and try to re-create what Oakland has done with Carr.
Isiah 58
I have no idea which is the better move…moving up for a top pick, or staying put (or even moving down) and taking one of the many intriguing developmental qbs that are in this draft. (This is supposed to be an interesting draft for that.)
But IMO they will do one or the other.
And, they will probably start Keenum at first, either way.
Anyway.
What does it mean to say there’s more to look at in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year? What does better than ordinary mean? To check that, here are the 1st round v. 2nd + 3rd round qbs from 2011-2015. I bold the ones who are hits–that’s anywhere from came through at a high level to still starting to still considered viable so far:
Year round pick player
1st round
2011 1 1 Cam Newton
2011 1 8 Jake Locker
2011 1 10 Blaine Gabbert
2011 1 12 Christian Ponder
2012 1 1 Andrew Luck
2012 1 2 Robert Griffin
2012 1 8 Ryan Tannehill
2012 1 22 Brandon Weeden
2013 1 16 EJ Manuel
2014 1 3 Blake Bortles
2014 1 22 Johnny Manziel
2014 1 32 Teddy Bridgewater
2015 1 1 Jameis Winston
2015 1 2 Marcus MariotaSo far it’s 8 of 14. Which is 57%
2nd + 3rd round
2011 2 35 Andy Dalton
2011 2 36 Colin Kaepernick
2011 3 74 Ryan Mallett
2012 2 57 Brock Osweiler
2012 3 75 Russell Wilson
2012 3 88 Nick Foles
2013 2 39 Geno Smith
2013 3 73 Mike Glennon
2014 2 36 Derek Carr
2014 2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo
2015 3 75 Garrett Grayson
2015 3 89 Sean MannionNear as it’s possible to tell so far, that’s 3 hits (25%), and a few we know nothing about yet (eg. Garoppolo & Mannion).
But what’s promised this draft is more genuine prospects in the 2nd-3rd round range. It’s supposed to be a rare good draft for that. That ought to mean the hit rate should be better than 25%.
.
February 24, 2016 at 1:00 pm #39520Isiah58ParticipantWell done. I guess the jury’s still out on some of the 2nd and 3rd rounders, but I think a few of them can play. I agree the Rams really need to come away with someone they can point to as the future at some point this year.
“Marge, don't discourage the boy! Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel.” - Homer Simpson
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