I’ll be fine if they keep either, and they both have minor character “flags,” but I covet Johnson’s size (ha!) and think he is more scheme independent. How about you?

I don’t know how anyone can look at the Rams’ last four drafts and think that they have not drafted well above average. They have managed to cull very good players at every stage of the draft, to the point where they have actually built depth at positions that are extremely difficult to obtain (e.g., cornerback). I understand that some people only want to look at records, and if the record is unsatisfactory then everything else must be lacking (coaching, drafting, players, etc.). Those willing to dig a little deeper understand that there have been circumstances that affect records beyond drafting. Fans who have suffered through so many losing seasons simply want results, and it is argued that anything that doesn’t further those results must be replaced. It doesn’t mean that good work hasn’t been done and continues to be done.

As Zack notes, you can objectively put the Rams’ drafts up against any team and it compares favorable. I did a post a while back comparing the Rams’ drafts to Green Bay’s and Seattle’s, and there are few who would pick either of those teams’ drafts as a whole over the Rams’. But the thing that has been lacking, and holding the team back, is a competent passing game. I believe this is the last piece of the puzzle, and I believe that they Rams began the task of fixing this element over the last two drafts where an offensive lineman has been picked in all seven rounds (Robinson (1), Havenstein (2), Brown (3), Donnell (4), Battle (5), Wickman (6), and Rhaney (7)). We will hopefully see the fruits of that effort this year and next as those young linemen blossom. They have the makings of a strong running game. The offense is poised to take a big leap, if they can just get the point guard to distribute the ball.

If the Rams had a Russell Wilson or a Ben Rothlesberger or a Drew Brees, I don’t think we would hear these grumblings about how Fisher has lost it or how Snead can’t draft. However, as about 18 other NFL teams are aware, there are simply not enough of these humans walking around on the earth and as badly as some fans want and expect this regime to conjure one up, it is a process that can take time. This does not take way the team that Snead and Fisher have assembled outside of QB, which is one of the youngest and most talented in the league. We used to look at this team in the offseason and bemoan the fact that there were just “too many holes” to fill with a draft or free agency. Does anyone feel that way now? A QB. A WR. A TE. That’s whats standing between this team and a strong playoff run. And in my opinion, it is in no small part thanks to the drafting acumen of the Rams over the last 4 years.
Isiah58

Herzog wrote:

LOL….

thanks guys, I needed some comic relief. Every artice about the move that I read makes me nauseaus. I dreamt about this stuff last night.

I’m truly sorry brother. There is nobody that doesn’t think it sucks big time.

When they left California, I didn’t know if I could watch again. But that September, there they were, the same guys I had been cheering for, in the same uniforms, playing in Green Bay. Isaac Bruce. Chris Miller. The same guys.

In September, you will turn on the tv and see TGII in that same uniform running behind that same line, with Aaron Donald in the middle of the line. Any you will root for them like you always have I predict. But the feeling of loss takes a long time to go away.

Isiah 58

zn wrote:

Isiah58 wrote:

For me personally, I like the progression and the improvement over where they were.

You win the “zn would say the same thing” prize for the day.

Translation: we agree pretty much.

.

Well, then, I suppose my work here is done : )

Looking forward to the draft already.

I went to the press conference as well. I didn’t know about it until that morning, but I work about 10 minutes from the forum so I just left my desk and decided to see if I could get in.

I was actually the first person in line to get in, and kept wondering if I was in the right place. There were tons of local media and press there, but other than some fans milling about in the parking lot there did not seem to be much going on. I saw Jackie Slater walking around, and said “hi” to him.

When we got in, the press occupied the first 30 rows of seats and then the fans were able to sit in the next section. Fisher came up to greet us before the conference, which was nice and they gave him a warm welcome. The crowd began shouting “L.A. Rams, L.A. Rams”, and the local news cameras would scramble for shot to use in their evening newscast. Anyone who wanted to get on TV could basically get on TV by waving a flag or chanting something about the Rams.

When Demoff spoke, the fans were cheering until he talked about looking forward to partnering with a second team. The crowd jeered, and someone yelled “we don’t want’em,” but it was more awkward as the whole crowd stopped and murmured after that. Anyways, it was reported that Fisher and Snead would speak, which is mainly why I went, but they appeared to cut the event short and Fisher and Snead never spoke to the audience but gave interviews afterward.

It is still surreal to have the Rams back in LA. I turned on the local sports talk radio show, which I haven’t listened to in twenty years, and they were talking about the Rams QB situation. I paid for an LA Times subscription to get the Rams’ content, and can’t wait to find out where their headquarters will be. It is unlikely that it will be too close to where I am, but not too far that I won’t be able to attend training camp. Just very excited, although I have to admit that in my heart something feels not quite right because of what happened in St. Louis. They did nothing to deserve losing their team, and part of my enthusiasm just feels like it is at someone else’s expense.

Good to be back on the forum, guys.

Isiah 58

A lot of people will make out what they will with what Hokahey said. If you are looking for positives from a Pro-STL viewpoint, you can take heart in what he said. There are many responses to his comments that essentially take Demoff’s comments as a positive development of the progress in St. Louis. Pro-LA people can look at the remarks and interpret them in a completely different way.

What I read from the remarks, which admittedly include my own bias, is as follows:

Saying that St. Louis “still has a chance” would not be very comforting to me as a pro-STL person. In every public comment that I have found from Demoff on the subject, he essentially says that things are undecided and the St. Louis still has a chance” or “the Rams have as good a possibility of playing in St. Louis as LA”. The original poster who posed the questions to Demoff also stated in the responses to the thread where this originated that he did not get a “warm feeling” about the matter after talking to KD. Again, he was actually observing Demoff as KD was talking, and I can only imagine that Kevin is going to try to cast the best light on the issue as he can when he is talking with St. Louis residents.

The hopes of the St. Louis keeping the Rams faction rests on the belief that if the City of St. Louis achieves its funding goal, then the NFL will not permit the Rams to leave. By all accounts, St. Louis will in fact achieve those stadium funding goals and while there are a few minor obstacles to go, most knowledgeable people understand that for the most part the “hay is in the barn.” If that is the case, one would expect Demoff to be much more bullish about St. Louis’ chances. Instead, he continues to characterize the situation as there is a possibility/chance that the Rams stay. I think that his response is Kevin being as honest as he can, but not misleading. St. Louis could blow Kroenke away with an offer to stay, but they are nowhere close to that now and it is not likely Kroenke’s first choice. Again, others will definitely disagree with that statement and assert the very real possibility this is merely leverage carried out to an extreme to negotiate the best deal.

The only other thing that struck me as odd is that Kevin told his kids that they might move to LA, understanding that it would likely upset them. Not sure how that plays into the leverage argument but I don’t think that you tell your kids that they may move if that wasn’t a very real possibility. Again, others will read nothing into that and see it as part of the negotiating process.

Isiah58 wrote:

Zooey wrote:

PA Ram wrote:

This is all going to be very interesting when it gets to the finish line.

It’s musical chairs and someone is not getting a chair.

The team that “feels” like the odd team out is Oakland. Maybe that’s just because they’ve been the quietest team during all this. There is no doubt that the Chargers and Rams are full speed ahead toward L.A. but because their moves involve two different stadiums, something has to give somewhere. At some point the NFL will have to get Spanos and Kroenke and Davis in a room and lock the door and not come out until it’s all sorted out and even then–if things go badly you have to wonder if teams will say “screw it” and do what they want to do anyway.

I still feel, at the end of the day, that somehow it’s going to be the Rams and Chargers but nothing is carved in stone yet.

We’ll see.

Oakland does feel like the odd team out.

1. In the survey of the LA market, there was a great deal of interest in the Rams, some in the Chargers, and little for the Raiders. In fact, there was some negative response to the Raiders.

2. The Raiders are the poorest team. They can’t do anything without help. They can’t build a stadium. How are they going to pay a relocation fee?

3. The Raiders have the shakiest ownership. I didn’t know this before now, but apparently Davis is going to have to pass through inheritance issues where Chip and Lucia could not. A Raiders sale? Subsidize a team moving to LA when ownership could be uncertain soon?

In contrast, Kroenke is a titan financially, and has an entire complex ready to go, and can afford to pay the NFL a substantial fee, plus provide an entire Super Bowl party venue.

I do not think the Raiders have any control of their destiny. Whatever is going to happen to them in the next decade is going to happen TO them. Davis can say whatever he wants about the Raiders’ destiny. I think their destiny is going to be determined by 31 other owners.

And I’m with WV. I don’t want the Rams to share a stadium.

1. I have lived in Southern California my entire life. I would like to see them come back, but I am certainly not getting my hopes up that it will happen.

2. I think it is clear that St. Louis has made the best case for the team not leaving its market. If the League goes by that criteria, the Rams will not be given permission to move to LA.

3. If the League is looking for the best opportunity for the team in LA to succeed, I think that the only choice is for the Rams to move, alone, to LA. Dumping two teams (especially the Raiders and the Chargers) into this market simultaneously is a recipe for one and maybe both of the teams to fail miserably. In my opinion it will doom both teams to try and take over this market as competitors while working together to make the stadium profitable.

4. If I am the Raiders, if I move to LA it will necessarily be as a package with either the Chargers or the Rams. The Raiders, who still have a following in LA, nevertheless will have a lot of trouble attracting corporate sponsorships in my opinion. This is especially true if the Rams or Chargers are also vying for the same business. I am not sure how the Raiders come out ok in any scenario.

5. It is rumored that the relocation fee will be up to $500M. If a team such as the Chargers have to pay that to move to LA, why wouldn’t they just use the $300M that the City of San Diego is asking for to build them their own home in SD? And how can the Raiders, with little or no means, pay the relocation fee to move to LA?

6. If the League said “go ahead, all three teams can move,” would they? Would Oakland move and be the third team in the mix, diluting the fans/sponsors/money even further? Would this game of chicken scare off the Chargers and Raiders while not appearing to play favorites?

7. It is often questioned whether Kroenke can muster the 21 votes to move, but a separate question is whether he can stir up 7 votes to keep the Chargers from moving? The longer this plays out, the more likely the Chargers or the Raiders will be able to work out something with their home market.

8. I don’t think anyone is selling their team. And nobody is buying the Broncos. And I don’t think the Riverfront stadium ever gets built.

9. If the Chargers and Raiders move, I do not understand why one team has to change conferences. That makes no sense to me. I have never heard an explanation as to why this is the case, unless it is a rule I haven’t heard of.

10. I wonder what the crowds are going to be like in the Dome this year. I remember what it was like in ’94, and it wasn’t pretty. Hopefully the Rams will be in the middle of that turnaround season we have all been waiting for and it bring lots of fans to the Dome.

Isiah 58

11. One the one hand, you can say that St. Louis is offering roughly $450M in public money to buy a stadium – how can the Rams turn that down? But in Kroenke’s mind, this smallish outdoor stadium with no personal ownership and diminished revenue streams with no hope for a Super Bowl and in which he had little to no input (his choice) is in lieu of a state of the art, $1.8B LA stadium that he will have ownership rights in, uncounted revenue streams, trebles his franchise value, and which he personally oversaw the design and creation of. Can the owners say that he has to take the St. Louis proposal for the good of the league?

12. I have never thought that SK would sell the Rams, even if he lost this fight. NFL franchises are just too hard to come by, and they are profit machines like no other. But the thought occurred to me that if Stan cannot muster 7 other owners to block the Chargers from moving, then he truly may feel like the owners shunned him. How cannot he not have at least 7 other owners in his pocket to make this play in the first place? In that case, would he resort to fight or flight?

13. The NFL has long held the belief that the LA market is a crowned jewel, a holy grail waiting for the bravest knight to pull the sword from the stone. They have held onto this treasure for 20 years, and it has served the NFL very well, getting new stadiums built in various cites around the league. It strikes me as odd that the NFL will now give this prized treasure to two owners, Spanos and Davis, who have so little means that they both need league support just to get their stadium built, and have flailed in their own markets without any hint of a move to LA until Kroenke made his play. Why reward these two owners for their apparent incompetence, sitting on their hands for years but accomplishing nothing? What did they do to deserve the LA market? Fortune favors the bold.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Isiah58.

Count me as one who was shocked how well the Rams draft played out, better than I could have hoped.

Here was my thinking heading into the draft:

1. Everything we heard this spring was that the Rams FO was “aware” of the shortcomings on the offensive line. After signing only two defensive players in free agency, people questioned what the Rams were going to do for blockers. At every opportunity, Fisher and Snead simply nodded reassuringly and said that they were keenly aware of the issues.

2. The rebuilding of the offensive line began last year. The cornerstone of the offensive line is the left tackle. Robinson solved that big puzzle piece last year. As Snead and Fisher said, and as Zack has often reminded us, the rest of the line can be made up of less highly regarded players. The Rams also drafted a center last year, and for all we know they have hopes for him still. I think only one rookie will start this year, but the other starters may not come from a free agent but a player already waiting in the wings.

3. The Rams scouted QBs significantly last year, but failed to get one of the second level quarterbacks in the draft and they were roundly criticized for failing to pick up a QB. This year they once again held a quarterback tour, and I felt very confident that they were going to try to get a QB in the first two days of the draft. My questions was whether they would reach in the second round, or wait until the 3rd round to take the QB.

4. Snead has always sought to draft a “special” player in the first round – a game changer. It doesn’t always work, but it isn’t too hard to discern his philosophy when it comes to the physical anomalies. He likes to bring attention to the physical traits of the Tavons and Robinsons as physical outliers who can become great. Again, when you swing for the fences there are going to be some strike outs, but their philosophy seems clear.

5. There were very few players in this draft that would start in ’15 for the Rams. I don’t believe any defensive player would have started on this team. I am not sure any wide receiver would have started over Quick and Britt this year. I think this is a product of the Rams having rebuilt their whole team with young players over the last three years, and 2015 being a relatively weak draft class. Thus, the impact that we could expect from a rookie was going to be minimal to the success of the team in 2015, with the possible exception of an offensive lineman having a season similar to Zack Martin last year.

6. I believe, and I think that the Rams believe, that your first round pick should never be used as a solution to fill a glaring hole. If that is the case, you have messed up as an organization somewhere along the way. You have to have the flexibility as an organization to use your first round pick to take the best player you can. The only exception to this should be taking a QB where the value approximately approaches pick and the team is desperately in need of a QB.

Ok, given all of that, I thought that the Rams would probably prefer to take a playmaker in round 1, take offensive linemen in rounds 2 & 3, and take their developmental QB in round 3. That was my “best case scenario” plan for them going in. But of course, they didn’t have two third round choices, so I held little hope for my plan coming to fruition.

Yet, in Round 1, they took probably one of the two or three players in this draft who could rise to greatness. I loved Tre Mason, but I was overjoyed they took TG because he represented that philosophy and ideal that I had been espousing since the beginning. Go for greatness in Round 1, and hit singles and doubles the rest of the way. It was the perfect pick, and if it works out it can be the offset to lacking one of the elite quarterbacks. Everyone says that you cannot win a Superbowl without a Rogers, Brees, Manning, Brady, or Luck. Well, there are 32 teams and only 5 or 6 of those guys, and by the way their numbers are diminishing. The Wilsons and the Lucks are not coming into the league as fast as the Bradys, Mannings, and Brees are starting to decline. College football is not producing these guys any more at an output that remotely meets the demand. So then what? Well, if you are the Rams, you need something that takes that guy’s place, like a running back who can touch the ball 25 times a game. This is the only choice you have if you don’t have one of the elites. So Fisher/Snead are trying to play the hand they are dealt.

In the second round, as we now know, they traded down and they took the only offer that yielded them a 3rd rounder. Why? I believe so they could go OL,OL in the second and third and still not miss out on the developmental QB. Lo and behold, lineman/lineman/QB. Just like they scripted it! The plan could not have worked out any better than it did.

Day 3 is for looking for depth and players that they like, but the first 3 rounds are for reinforcing the core. As everyone else mentioned, their success will solely depend on whether the identified the right guys. But as far as implementing a plan, I think they carried out their vision for this draft as well as they could have expected.

I personally am as excited and optimistic about 2015 as I have been for the last 45 seasons. We are not only returning our starting defense, but with one exception we are returning our second string defense as well. We have a new QB, young and upcoming weapons, and the best coach in the division. Yeah, I am a huge Fisher fan, and I am one of the people who try to look past the record and see whether the team has gotten better over the last three years. He started with an absolutely miserable roster, and had to compete in the NFC West just when it was ascending to its crescendo. And he had to compete with back-up journeymen QBs the last season and a half going up against the division’s first string QBs. Under those circumstances, I am not sure who could have done better.

This team is ready to turn it around, right now. Go on a big run. Start crushing people. In 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

I have no problem with the call. Carroll’s logic was sound. Three plays is better than two plays. He knew he could run the ball twice if the pass was incomplete.

Also, two stats I heard that I cannot verify. This year there were 109 passes thrown from the one yard line. Only one of those passes were intercepted (Wilson’s). Second, Marshawn Lynch rushed five times this year from the 1 yard line. He scored once of those five attempts.

Plus, New England had six linemen in on the play. They stacked the box for the expected run. Running the pass was actually a good call, foiled by an amazing play by a rookie who made an incredible break on the ball.

The two things that I took from the show are:

1. Sam Bradford is the favorite to be the Rams’ starting QB for next year. He didn’t name him the starter, and we don’t even know if Sam will be on the team in ’15. But from what Fisher is willing to admit publicly, Sam is penciled in at QB. But he also said that there would be another challenger besides Davis and Hill. A 4th QB, and you get the impression that the new guy will be a 1A, and not a Garrett Gilbert type. My feeling has been that they will have to over-invest in the QB position next year because of the circumstances the past two years. Of course, stating a philosophy or a plan is one thing, but signing an real, actual, capable starting QB that is willing to come in and compete for a job (knowing SB is penciled in as the starter), and is markedly better than Shawn Hill, is much tougher. No one ever puts names to these hypothetical players. Is Chase Daniel or Kirk Cousins significantly better than Shawn Hill? Would you be excited about Brian Hoyer behind center next year, or Jason Campbell? These are realistically the type of guys you are talking about to bring in. And what is abundantly clear, at least to the Rams, is that a healthy Sam Bradford would beat all of these guys out in a QB competition. And that is why SB is penciled in as the starter for ’15.

2. Fisher was adamant that they would be playing in January next year. I think is part confidence, and part pressure. I do not think he can survive another 6-10 season, even under the worst of conditions. The pressure will finally be cranked up significantly next year, and I don’t think any excuses will wash. What worries me is that the injury gods were unusually kind to the Rams this year, except for the big 3. The Rams finished the season with only a couple players on IR, and was healthy for most of the year. I attribute part of that to being a very young team, so they are less likely to break down. Jake Long and Chris Long, two of the more veteran players, were two of the most significant injuries. Hopefully next year will not be the “make-up” year where the injury bug bites back hard <fingers crossed>.

I don’t understand what people genuinely expect from Schotty. I thought they were pretty darn creative on offense with what they had to work with. I saw plenty of motion, diversity, creativity, and effective play-calling this year. What I didn’t see is an offensive line that could consistently open up holes, or hold off blitzes in critical down and distances. And I saw a QB who was gutsy and a game, but severely limited who couldn’t make plays downfield or stand tall in the pocket and throw darts to receivers downfield. Not his fault, but that doesn’t fall on the Offensive Coordinator.

Play-calling is a fans’ panacea. You never hear the players or the coaches talk about play-calling. Its about beating the man in front of you, you don’t trick people too often in this league. Schotty is plenty creative enough to get the job done – he just needs a few more pieces. Plus, you have to remember the Rams play six games against Top 5 defenses just in their division alone. Nobody is going to come in here and start putting up 30 point games consistently in this division for a while. And Marc Trestman’s Bears scored 15, 14, and 9 in their last three games (with superior offensive talent). Where was the brilliant play-calling there?

I think once they got down by two scores, they went to the hurry up. I was actually fairly impressed that they went no huddle. In the past, they have still plodded back to the huddle down two scores, but they were fairly sharp in running the no huddle against Seattle.

But when they went no huddle, they had Stacy and Cunningham in to pick up blitzes. I think they just trust those two more right now, so Mason watched.

Wishing you and your family the best.

I sat in the north sideline (the Rams’ sideline) and the ratio of Rams fans to Charger fans were pretty even. I don’t think that was the case on the other side of the field, but it was great watching the game with so many Rams fans. I went to a game in New Orleans a few years ago, and I don’t know if I saw more than a handful of Rams fans the whole day.

As for the game, I really thought that they were going to pull it out at the end. I felt watching the game that the Rams were the better team, but that San Diego had the better QB and the Rams kept getting called for too many critical penalties.

Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers, Seahawks, Chiefs, 49ers, Cardinals, Broncos, Chargers ===> 68-31 with no team less than 7-4. Has any team in NFL history played a 9 game stretch like that? And they played that stretch with two quasi-third string QBs against their opponent’s first string QB. As the youngest team in the league.