rfl wrote:

Dak wrote:
I’m OK with all of that. I’m not that impressed with Williams, either. But, I would also be OK with him coming back, because I do believe in continuity as a plus. I do believe that another offseason in the same system can make a big difference.

My friend, I’ll simply say that I distrust abstract arguments.

The league has seen many cases of a team responding to and improving from a new scheme.

And the league has seen many cases of 2nd years in a system cratering as the league figured the system out enough to cancel whatever a unit gets from continuity in a system.

And vice versa.

I don’t believe one can draw any sort of conclusion based on abstractions. One has to argue from cases.

For example, that OC that screwed up Sam’s sophomore year? It wasn’t his system. It was his witless refusal to adapt to his personnel, which lacked the firepower he needed to do as he wished.

As for Williams, my sense is that his “system” works best with a superb, veteran secondary and smart but limited DL. I don’t think he understands our personnel or how to get the most from it.

I had had some hope that he was learning. Buy the last 2 games have convinced me that he hasn’t learned a damn thing.

Everything I see convinces me that the problem is not the players learning the system. It’s Williams learning out how to use the players.

Since I have no control over who the Rams hire as their coordinator, I’m going to have to hang on to the hope that the D improves in this system, because you and I know that Fisher is not canning Williams after this season. 😉

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by Dak.

I wouldn’t draft Jameis Winston at all. With him comes more chances for trouble than success.

zn wrote:

Dak wrote:
But, the elephant in the room is that the defense didn’t play well. Even with mistakes, the offense did play well enough to win. But, the defense has to get pressure on Eli Manning in this game

Yeah I don’t get this focus on the offense. Even with a banged-up OL starting a rookie LOT and Hill being streaky, they did enough to win.

It was the defense that lost that game.

I kept thinking in the second half, the offense is doing enough to win this game … if only given a chance. I kept waiting for the D to make a play. They just didn’t have it in them.

I didn’t think about it at the time, but, yeah, Brown should have been kicked out of the game for that kick to the face.

So, one of Wells’ bad snaps meant that Hill couldn’t hit a wide-open Stedman Bailey in the endzone? If so, add that to the two offensive turnovers as some big mistakes that could have made a difference in this game. But, the elephant in the room is that the defense didn’t play well. Even with mistakes, the offense did play well enough to win. But, the defense has to get pressure on Eli Manning in this game. Seems like Fisher outlines how you stop the Rams when talking about Donald’s quiet game:

“They did a nice job protecting, a lot of doubles. They were, as we say, nudging our ends. Keeping the tight ends in, a lot of seven-man protections, turn-protections, which is hard.”

Also, there were 3 holds on Quinn that were called. They were basically tackles. I’m sure Quinn got held more than that, but that’s the way it is in this game. Have to force the tackle and obvious grab to get the call.

Seattle whips them, because Seattle is playing its best ball.

24-10 Seahawks.

I expect mistakes from the young secondary. But, what drives me mad is that this team’s pass rush can disappear for games at a time. The blitzes don’t work nearly enough. Other teams’ blitzes seem to flummox the Rams’ O-line, while the Rams’ blitzes too often fall flat and allow the QB to pick apart the young secondary.

I don’t know if that’s coaching or execution or both. What’s strange to me is the inconsistency … the defensive play varies from suffocating to helpless. This team has been a roller coaster, and the lows are coming too often.

I do believe that you always play to win, and let the chips fall where they may in the draft. Because, you can find a Donald at No. 13 some years. (Or, you can pick Jimmy Kennedy in that range, too.) Depends on how well you can assess players overall. A lot of times, there is very little separating the No. 10 and 20 player. How often, when they play the “redraft” game do you see high picks way out of the first round? And, picks in the low 1st and 2nd rounds being rated at the top of the draft? Drafting is a lot like forecasting the weather. You have to have the training to do it, but a lot still comes down to luck. The conditions are fluid. You’re projecting a college player’s abilities to improve so that they can meet the demands of the NFL. You never know just how good they’ll be.

The way you trade, is that you target guys who you like for your system, and go up a few spots to get him. I don’t have a problem with doing that, unless you’re trading away the farm. I do like that the Rams try to find value at their spots in the draft, and will trade both up and down to try to match value with draft position.

I don’t know for sure about Fisher. I get that you are what your record says you are. I do believe that. I think the team has improved, though, and could be on the cusp of something pretty special. It’s still a young team. The defense obviously did not adjust well to Williams’ schemes early in the year. At the same time, I don’t know if Williams can come in and just make little changes here and there until the defense converts to his vision. I just don’t know if that’s realistic. Now, the defense looks great.

My main concern is still on the offensive side of the ball. They’ve shown flashes, but still struggle too often.

I don’t have as negative a view as La. But, yes, Fisher hasn’t proven much of anything yet. Next year is THE year to show something. 😉

Arizona has won what, exactly?

I just know that if they have to rely on a rookie QB in games like tonight, you can expect some big mistakes that can snowball big time. We don’t even know if Hundley or Winston will be any good in the NFL after getting years of experience.

I thought the O-line for the Cardinals did enough to open some holes for their RB and did a good job picking up the blitz.

I thought the opposite of the Rams’ O-line. Hill didn’t have a lot of time to set up and find open receivers, and I don’t know if there were a lot of open receivers. Arizona’s blueprint of hitting the QB all game and winning in the 4th quarter worked again. That bad pass to Bailey that could have gotten the Rams into Cardinals’ territory was a result of a game of pressure and hits … when he had a chance to finally burn Arizona, he threw the ball quickly and was inaccurate enough that Bailey couldn’t pull in the pass.

The defense was fine. I’ll take 12 points every time, especially when they were put in some very tough situations by the offense and had to be on the field so much. I disagree on that PI call on JJ. I thought he played that really well. I saw more contact left uncalled in many games in recent weeks.

And, when the Rams finally made some big plays and got the ball to the goal line, the Cardinals’ D came up big and the Rams’ receivers could not get open. On that 3rd down play, Arizona just owned the Rams.

Arizona was better and made more plays. Outplayed and outcoached the Rams, in my opinion.

rfl wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Rams4life wrote:</div>
It’s just to me this should be a non issue. No one minded calling them the redskins for all those years. And now, some people who aren’t even Indian thinks it’s offensive. Hell, Snyder even had some native Americans in the booth with him sporting redskins gear a couple of weeks ago.

People that say “the r word” or the “Washington team” are just adding fuel to the fire imo. It’s only derogatory if used that way, and in 44 years of living i have never used it or heard it used that way. My grams was full blooded Cherokee and i never heard get say anything about a redskin or say that it offended her. Just my 2 cents worth.

I’ll just point this out.

In the mainstream world of the American majority … no one minded the name for decades. Not on the surface. Not in mainstream public discourse.

That is a long way away from saying that “no one minded.” What bothers minorities is virtually always invisible to majorities … until the minorities are allowed to express themselves. Indeed until they learn HOW to express themselves. Generally, when that begins to happen, the majority is shocked. “Where has all this come from?” And it instinctively trivializes disaffection and alienation expressed by the minority. “Suddenly everyone is taking offense at these little things that don’t matter. Non-issues.”

Well, they’re not non-issues to the minority. Or, at least, to significant members of the minority. There will of course always be diversity of response. Snyder can certainly find individual Native Americans willing to express an affirming reaction. That’s fine. They can do that.

It doesn’t change the fact that many Native Americans feel quite differently about it. Indeed, it doesn’t change the fact that many AMERICANS feel differently about it. Many members of the mainstream are offended. I am. WV is. Apparently, significant numbers of professional journalists are, so much so that they are changing their behavior.

It is an issue, a significant issue, because many Americans feel it is a significant issue. You are perfectly free to feel personally that it shouldn’t be. Your experience may tell you that it would be a non-issue to certain individuals you know. But for many Americans, it is a highly significant issue. And they are free to feel that.

What one cannot honestly do is to say that, since it didn’t pop up in mainstream discourse previously, it was never a matter for anyone. That’s like saying that, because we never hear on mainstream media or common conversation about how Sikhs or Basques or Innuits or Tagalogs or stamp collectors or train spotters or Hmongs or calligraphers or chess players feel that their concerns are non-issues.

American society changed significantly in the mid-1960s. It did not stop being racist. Issues of prejudice and discrimination were not eliminated. But something changed.

What happened was quite simply that minorities discovered that they could speak up for their perspective. That’s the biggest difference between now and a time in which a fictional North Carolina town called Mayberry could simply erase all the black faces from its streets. It simply isn’t easy any more to silence the voices of those who take offense at being disrespected and alienated by the mainstream. They don’t suffer in silence any more.

What that means is that, as the decades roll by, sources of suffering which had long remained invisible, “non-issues” to the mainstream get brought forward so that their seriousness has to be dealt with. The suppressed non-issue becomes perceived as the issue it always was.

Again, you can decide if you wish that this should not be so. But you can’t say it has never been an issue or that the thousands of Americans who feel it is an issue don’t have every bit as much right to tell you when they’re pissed off. And guess what–Native Americans have a LOT of good reason to be pissed off! Hell, I’m pissed off with them.

That pretty much crystallizes my thoughts.

My personal feeling is that once I knew about the controversy, I wanted to learn more. And, I hope that Washington changes its names to something else. But, because they have such a strong brand that resonates with long-time fans, that’s more important to Daniel Snyder.

I also wish more Americans would look more deeply into issues that are bothering marginalized Americans just to understand the WHY and HOW the issue is a problem, and to open a discussion. And, that’s my biggest wish: That Americans could have open, civil discussions about controversial subjects. I’m proud of this board for having those discussions. So, I’m OK with this topic staying on the football board.

This might be one of those drafts where you take an offensive lineman in the first round because they’re the “safest” bet. Or, you take one of those big wide receivers and see if you hit the jackpot. There are a few outside linebackers who look interesting in the early rounds, too.

I’m just excited that they’re playing well. My hope is that they’re playing for a winning season at Seattle. That should be a fun, physical contest.

wv wrote:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11978096/after-ferguson-sports-stars-waking-up

The “anti-jordans”

Howard Bryant

This story appears in ESPN The Magazine’s Dec. 22 Interview Issue. Subscribe today!

AFTER THE BLOOD AND FIRE of Ferguson, the video of a killing in New York that went unpunished and a 12-year-old shot dead in Cleveland, a wave of protest is rapidly defining America, awakening athletes once considered too busy with their stock portfolios to notice much of anything. It isn’t just the St. Louis Five, the Rams players united in the wake of the Ferguson non-indictment, but also Saints tight end Ben Watson speaking out on Facebook. It’s Pacers forward David West on Twitter, more invested in the black lives that fall at the hands of the police than in how his words might risk his brand. It is LeBron James and the Heat in hoodies after Trayvon Martin’s death last year, and Kobe Bryant this year indicting not Michael Brown nor Darren Wilson but an entire broken system of justice that in many ways created both of them.

The awakening represents the arrival of the anti-Jordans, the athlete as a living, breathing, thinking citizen and not just a sneaker pitchman. If the aftermath of September 11 politicized the ballfield by valorizing American militarism, athletes after the non-indictments in Ferguson and New York now reject the public demand of shut up and play. They see that America, divided by race and class, could not be less “post-racial,” a term intended to bury yesterday and soften tomorrow. It is an awakening in which some black athletes see no reward for being dutiful front men, for saluting the police as heroes at halftime; they instead see themselves reduced to a pre-racial place, no more American or human for their loyalty, so convinced that black lives don’t matter that they’ve joined the national movement demanding that they do.

These anti-Jordans know their enormous sums of money can shield their children from attending a broken public school system or from living in a neighborhood with no services, no self-determination and no hope. But they also know they cannot shield their friends, their aunts and uncles, from those same realities, and they cannot be sure that following all the rules will keep their loved ones from being shot by police. Money cannot shield players from their own consciences, or from the video of a New York policeman killing Eric Garner with a choke hold. Players’ silence has kept them tethered to systems they now find they must protest. Violence has shattered the post-racial myth and finally ended the silence.

Rams receiver Kenny Britt’s message on his taped wrists-“Mike Brown” on the right, “My Kids Matter” on the left-directly challenged that tethering, a severing of those ties. The patronizing aftermath-the St. Louis Police Officers Association demanded the NFL discipline Britt and his teammates-validated Britt’s voice, the massive overreaction connecting protected black players to the abandoned black poor.

The racial divide in this country is most powerfully demonstrated by white America’s ironclad belief in a legal system that black America views as hopelessly, oppressively broken. Ferguson flayed open the division. For African-Americans, race is personal, all day, every day, legally and emotionally the defining characteristic of our American existence. For whites, race is often but a topic, one to be debated and engaged or dismissed as whining and tabled for another day. It is a gap that cannot be bridged by flimsily blaming hip-hop culture or demanding that blacks need to be more responsible, for black responsibility is inseparable from blockbusting, redlining, and the other government and cultural forces that created the debilitating conditions in the first place.

The current awakening confronts the intersection of race and power, but if players successfully challenged power by toppling Donald Sterling, and if they now feel emboldened to protest police brutality, domestic violence is a reminder that the activist male player should not get too comfortable. Men must now confront another power, and that power is themselves. The next awakening will be in discovering just how many of these dots players choose to connect, for the trinity of class, race and gender is inseparable. The masculinity system, like the justice system and the racist and classist elements that fuel today’s protests, now requires reform. Players’ actions will tell us whether they are more than just a commercial. If so, maybe their awakening will be complete.
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Well put, I think.