wv wrote:

bnw wrote:

I think the bar should be set lower say being on 45 of the state ballots and 5% in national polling.

===============

Agreed. I’ve agreed with you in two threads now. That must mean
youre a leftist now, comrad. Welcome. What size Che shirt do you want?
I’ve got your beret here somewhere…

w
v

Any size Che shirt will do as I will wear the beret on the bidet and drying off with Che.

zn wrote:

waterfield wrote:

http://www.pressreader.com/usa/los-angeles-times/20160630/281651074418891

Given our discussions re left, moderate, and right I found this article interesting. Growing up in the 50s I don’t recall the “hate” that I see today in the different ideologies.

It was there. McCarthyism? Eisenhower sending the 101st Airborne to Little Rock to restore order after school desegregation?

The 1950s was a world of fragile platititudes. It hid the conflicts under the surface but they were there.

Not true. I watched “Happy Days” so I know.

Zooey wrote:

I would love her to get up to 15% so she could get into the debates.

Why would democrats and republicans let anyone else in their debate? Thats why they took it from the League of Women Voters in 2000 to keep Nader and Buchanan from debating with Bush and Gore. If anything has changed it is news to me.

At 36 he really is one hit away from retirement. The Rams might be the team to do it.

Zooey wrote:

bnw wrote:

zn wrote:

waterfield wrote:

zn wrote:

For better or for worse we are a country of wolves-at least in the economic sense. It is the price we pay for what we perceive as “freedom”

This is where we disagree. Like all countries our country is a country of policies. It is true that the wolf-friendly have control of the policies. But there are countries with very different or even opposite policies which have as much freedom as we do, if not more.

But I think the sheer size of our country, the huge divergence of interests, the number of people living here, the enormous assimilation of varying cultures and immigrants makes it difficult to compare the United States with other countries

W to be honest I don’t buy that. I think it;s an excuse to naturalize the status quo.

…

I disagree. Monocultures like Japan cannot correlate to the US or UK or France.

And…where did you get the idea that Japan is a “monoculture?”

Compared to the US it is.

InvaderRam wrote:

i think we’re at a point of no return. this world has 2 options.

either we somehow get off this planet which i think is a real possibility. and somehow humanity is able to keep stumbling forward.

or we destroy this planet. or the planet is destroyed by some cataclysmic non-human event.

right now i’m hoping for the latter.

With that attitude how can you even get out of bed?

Billy_T wrote:

Ike is an interesting case. Obama has governed well to his right. Stick the Ike of his presidency in today’s GOP, and he would be instantly primaried out of it. In more than a few cases, he’d be seen as too far left for the Dems, too. In the 1950s, he was thought of as “conservative.” But today, he’d at least be “center-left.”

Today in America, unions have a secure place in our industrial life. Only a handful of reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of breaking unions and depriving working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice. I have no use for those — regardless of their political party — who hold some vain and foolish dream of spinning the clock back to days when organized labor was huddled, almost as a hapless mass. Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice.—Dwight D. Eisenhower

I can’t remember the last Dem who said such a thing about unions. And Eisenhower made similar comments about how wrong it was to go against the social safety net. Obama, OTOH, offered Boehner a “grand bargain” to slash Social Security and Medicare.

The top tax rate under Ike? 91%. And, yeah, I know, no one paid that amount. But no one pays the 39.6% rate today, either. The effective rate for the rich under Ike was in the 55% range. The effective rate now? Maybe 25%. And for the super rich, it’s much less than that, cuz of their use of carried interest, etc. etc.

Ike governed well to the left of Obama.

Yes and his Operation Wetback of 1954 deported 1.3 million illegal aliens to Mexico. It is always about jobs. The people need jobs. Good jobs. Jobs with benefits and a future.

In my lifetime Eisenhower.

Agamemnon wrote:

Were you around when Jim Bakken was kicking for the Big Red? People called Wilkins “Money”, Bakken was the real “Money”. Now, Wilkins was good and the best I have seen at an onside kick, but when the Big Red lined up for a FG, it was “Game Over”.

Yes he was money. I can still hear Bob Starr now.

Zooey wrote:

And…she is no moderate. She has Neo-Cons supporting her. Neo-Cons. The PNAC people. Those are anti-democracy imperialists. She is philosophically aligned with George W. Bush. And purporting to represent me. It makes steam come out my ears, I will tell you.

You have to vote for Hillary because she has a vagina.

That is what they say. For now.

Can’t be racist if they share the same morphological variations. In regards to race-

English = Irish.

Mick is an “ethnic slur” according to Wikipedia. An ethnic slur is a term designed to insult others on the basis of race, ethnicity, or nationality. However in your case waterfield it also goes on to say-

“However the complexity of the issue of the listing and usage of such terms needs to be noted. For instance, many of the terms listed below (such as “Gringo”, “Yank”, etc.) are used by large numbers of human beings in many parts of the world as part of their ordinary speech or thinking without any intention of causing offence, and with little or no evidence that such usage does in fact cause much offence.”

That certainly describes the usage of those by nationality I listed as used where I was raised and undoubtedly by your neighbor too.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by bnw.

waterfield wrote:

bnw wrote:

waterfield wrote:

bnw wrote:

he Brexit vote wasn’t racism. It was nationalism.

“Nationalism” can be the foundation for “racism”. Just another way to excuse it. 87% of Britain’s population is white. Immigration fears was in large part the fuel that drove brexit. My own definition of racism includes the “I don’t like you because you’re different than I am”. Britain has a long hx of this type of thinking. My wife is Irish. My neighbor is from England and (jokingly) refers to her as the “mick” across the street. If he was serious I would call that a racist remark.

The push back from globalization can also be said to be racist based. The uneducated older working class saw their jobs being taken by those “different”-hence the move toward “nationalism”.

The EU was born from two world wars and provided a sense of economic security among a fractured Europe. Now Germany will once again become the strongest economic power in Europe a forbidding thought to those who recall the past. Putin could not be more happy today.

A personal anecdote: My closest friend owns a manufacturing company in the sports business. A huge market for his equipment is in Europe and the far east. He is rightfully concerned that with the loss of our strongest ally in the European market he will be unable to continue to access those markets with the same economic freedom as before. And yet he is still a strong supporter of Trump who champions brexit. Go figure.

I think you go out of your way to find racism. It is what democrats are prone to do because within the party they are rewarded for it. The UK voted for independence. That isn’t racism. Why is it that people of color can take pride in their culture even when they have fled from their country to a country with a completely different culture yet caucasians are never afforded the same right? The EU was dumping immigrants and criminals into the UK. The people realized that their vote didn’t matter since their government was subservient to Brussels. After 40 years they said enough. It was a voluntary union from the start.

Mick is a racist remark? I don’t get that at all. Polock, Dago, Wop, Kraut are not racist either. Irish, English, Polish, Italian, German are all predominantly caucasian so how can that be racist? Now spic or spear chucker sure that is racist since that isn’t about a specific nationality. Just like cracker is racist. I grew up in St. Louis and we used Mick, polock, dago, wop, kraut and others all the time and there wasn’t a chip on anyones shoulder.

I disagree that opposition to globalization is based upon racism. That is so insulting, so out of touch. For those who have been harmed by their jobs being sent overseas or over the border it is about the strain on their family, community, and region for no other reason than to make some greedy son of a bitch a little more profit by committing economic treason. After decades of this the pain adds up and people have had enough. It is exactly the same dynamic that Trump has tapped into for the presidential campaign. People want to work. They want their jobs to be a priority of their government. Before globalization that was the case.

Germany is the strongest economic power in europe followed by the UK, France and Italy. What is forbidding about that? Germany has already been hit hard by the sanctions placed on Russia since considerable trade takes place between the two countries. The UK remains a member of NATO so I can’t see Putin cracking much of a smile.

How have we lost our “strongest ally in the european market”? The UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world. Nothing will change between the US and the EU because of the Brexit.

My definition of “racism” is mine alone. IMO calling someone a “mick” is a characterization solely based on a person’s race. To me that’s racist regardless of whether or not it is meant disparagingly. Others differ and require a nefarious intent.

I understand the fears and anxiety that you listed as major factors in brexit. Nevertheless, I have strong concerns over the spread of “nationalism” across Europe that this could portend as well as in this country.

Irish isn’t a race. It is a nationality and remains so whether Mick is used disparagingly or not.

Rams will improve at WR by catching the ball. KISS