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Billy_TParticipant
Apparently, Barr has been a busy little bee, all around the globe.
Excerpt:
Barr personally asked foreign officials to aid inquiry into CIA, FBI activities in 2016
By Devlin Barrett ,
Shane Harris and
Matt Zapotosky
September 30 at 6:07 PMAttorney General William P. Barr has held private meetings overseas with foreign intelligence officials seeking their help in a Justice Department inquiry that President Trump hopes will discredit U.S. intelligence agencies’ examination of possible connections between Russia and members of the Trump campaign during the 2016 election, according to people familiar with the matter.
Barr’s personal involvement is likely to stoke further criticism from Democrats pursuing impeachment that he is helping the Trump administration use executive branch powers to augment investigations aimed primarily at the president’s adversaries.
[State Dept. intensifies email probe of Hillary Clinton’s former aides]
But the high level Justice Department focus on intelligence operatives’ conduct will likely cheer Trump and other conservatives for whom “investigate the investigators” has become a rallying cry. Barr has voiced his own concerns, telling lawmakers in April that he believed “spying did occur” when it came to the U.S. investigation of the Trump campaign.
Notice the rationale behind this isn’t to clean up the CIA and Intel overall, or to go after torture programs or black sites/black ops. It’s not to review its history of coups and assassinations and so on. It’s all about discrediting an investigation into Trump and his campaign. IMNSHO, leftists shouldn’t be fooled by this, or cheered by this.
It’s quite similar to the ruckus the GOP raised about the FISA program, because it went after Carter Page. Their ruckus was all about their own team being behind the eight ball, and it happened right after the GOP joined the Dems in reupping FISA legislation.
It would be one thing if they raised a ruckus about the totality of bad practices, illegal, immoral, unethical and otherwise. But there’s no evidence that Trump, Barr, Jim Jordan or any Republican has the slightest intention of doing that. They’re not concerned with “civil liberties” for all Americans. Just their own peers and auxiliaries.
This nightmare needs to end.
Billy_TParticipantQuick follow up. Please know that none of this is about you. I kinda feel I have to say that again, cuz I know I sometimes react harshly to posts like this. It’s a bad habit.
;>(
In no way, shape or form am I trying to get you to stop posting the stuff you think is important here. The more the better. I love reading your take on things. Always have. That’s not gonna change.
Hope all is well in the Mountain State.
Billy_TParticipantWV,
It’s hard for me to watch that. IMO, Dore talks as if he’s being paid directly by Trump. Seriously. I’m not exaggerating. He’s carrying his water, and his take on this issue is so obviously prejudiced, I’m amazed he isn’t laughing the entire time at his own chutzpah.
He knows nothing about this guy, yet he’s already determined he’s a “spook” and was supposedly sent by the CIA — which Trump controls — to (spy on and) go after Trump. How does Dore know this? Dore can’t even conceive of the possibility that the whistleblower honestly saw and heard things that disturbed him enough to act . . . the interviewee seemed to think that was the case, btw, in his first response to Dore’s spiel. Trump’s own summary of the call shows how wrong Dore is, as does the IG’s report (a Trump appointee).
Also, Dore is 110% wrong about Russiagate, which seems to also be the basis for his take on this. That it was somehow debunked. He’s using a bogus premise to base his bogus conclusions. Nothing was disproven about Mueller’s report. It’s still the consensus among the Trump-led Intel community. And if it had already been debunked, why is Trump still trying to strong-arm foreign leaders to discredit it?
(As mentioned in the impeachment thread, it was reported today that he did this recently with the Australian PM, getting Barr involved, etc.)
. . .
Oh, well.
Billy_TParticipantNot sure if you remember this, WV. But old Wallace Stevens is among my favorite poets, evah. I think he was, in fact, the greatest American poet of the 20th century, and in the running for greatest English language poet of that century.
I have his collected poems and prose, in a fine edition from The Library of America, plus this or that paperback. And recently purchased and read a really great bio by Paul Mariani.
I recommend it highly:
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Whole-Harmonium/Paul-Mariani/9781451624380
Billy_TParticipantThe plot thickens yet again.
The WSJ — behind a paywall — is reporting this afternoon that Pompeo listened in on a Trump/Zelensky call. We didn’t know that previously. And he said nothing about it in the aftermath.
And The New York Times is reporting that Trump tried to push the Prime Minister of Australia to get him to attack the Mueller Report. This, apparently, happened recently.
Excerpt:
Trump Pressed Australian Leader to Help Barr Investigate Mueller Inquiry’s Origins
The discussion was another instance of the president using American diplomacy for potential personal gain.
September 30, 2019 at 6:11 pm in reply to: This is not okay: Trump calls for the arrest of Schiff for Treason #106009Billy_TParticipantGood points about our relative takes on this or that president on personal grounds.
I actually like Obama and his family, on personal grounds. Didn’t like his governance. Far too conservative, and far too willing to work with the enemy. But he strikes me as a “good person.” Which raises all kinds of other philosophical questions. Does it make sense for us to view “leaders” as good or bad, setting aside their actions as leaders? Or do we need to include all of that in the mix before we assess?
When it comes to Trump, I see him as a truly despicable human, whether or not he’s president, and his actions as president have been beneath contempt.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Billy_T.
September 30, 2019 at 6:08 pm in reply to: This is not okay: Trump calls for the arrest of Schiff for Treason #106007Billy_TParticipant“If the Democrats are successful in removing the President from office (which they will never be), it will cause a Civil War like fracture in this Nation from which our Country will never heal,”
Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?
Utterance attributed to Henry II of England, which led to the death of Thomas Becket, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in 1170.
Nice reference, ZN. Which reminded me of a, well, “lower brow” reference via Godfather III, and Eli Wallach’s comment about a pebble in his shoe.
Also, apropos is Stephen Greenblatt’s timely and provocative Tyrant, ostensibly a look at Shakespeare’s villains, but clearly a running look at Trump. It’s short and worth a read. Not as great as his The Swerve, which is now one of my all-time favorite non-fiction works (about the rediscovery of Lucretius) . . . but “fun” anyway.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Billy_T.
September 30, 2019 at 10:58 am in reply to: This is not okay: Trump calls for the arrest of Schiff for Treason #105985Billy_TParticipantSide-note: The latest CBS/Yougov poll on impeachment shows 55/45 approval for the inquiry. It now has solid majority support.
September 30, 2019 at 10:57 am in reply to: This is not okay: Trump calls for the arrest of Schiff for Treason #105984Billy_TParticipantThis followed a barrage of tweets Sunday, including one about civil war, which even a Republican rep had to condemn:
‘Beyond repugnant’: GOP congressman slams Trump for warning of ‘civil war’ over impeachment
Excerpt:
By Katie Shepherd
September 30 at 6:49 AMAs Democrats begin an impeachment inquiry, President Trump spent Sunday vigorously defending himself on Twitter and sharing cable news clips of his most ardent devotees insisting that he did nothing wrong in asking the Ukrainian president to investigate his political rival, former vice president Joe Biden.
Trump highlighted one quote from a longtime evangelical pastor warning of particularly dire consequences if the Democrats follow through.
“If the Democrats are successful in removing the President from office (which they will never be), it will cause a Civil War like fracture in this Nation from which our Country will never heal,” Trump tweeted, adding his own parenthetical to a quote from Robert Jeffress, a Southern Baptist preacher speaking on “Fox & Friends Weekend” on Sunday.
Video included in article . . .
Again, this is NOT okay. Yeah, Trump has largely numbed the nation into apathy about his antics, but we’ve already seen mass shooters take his words to heart, directly, and act on them.
Silence isn’t the answer. “Whatever” isn’t the answer. This man is a menace and a threat to the health and safety of every American and the planet.
Billy_TParticipantTheoretical, and controversial, but some studies say meditation is kind of similar in its effects. Helps bring the conscious mind in sync with the subconscious. Again, that’s the theory. Religious ecstasy does this as well, which also can be “practiced.” Buddhists do this daily. Born again Christians say it happens the moment they accept Jesus as their savior. But if they’re not mystic adepts, it never happens to them again.
(Have always been fascinated by mysticism. Included much about it in a coupla of my unpublished novels. Well, all of my novels are unpublished!)
Psychedelics would be another route to the same thing, though far more intense and direct. A short cut of sorts? Merging the conscious and unconscious minds is likely pretty damn healthy, but it also likely needs guidance . . . Too bad Carlos Castaneda is no longer alive. At least not on this astral plane.
One of my favorite poets and writers in general is Henri Michaux, the Belgian genius. He experimented with mescaline and other drugs and wrote about that. Painted under the influence too.
Billy_TParticipantHave you read the novel, Feed, by M. T. Anderson?
I’m guessing you’re asking WV that . . . but I’ll respond too. Haven’t heard of it. Just looked it up in Wikipedia and it sounds really interesting. Do you recommend it for adults as well?
I finished watching a very bizarre movie yesterday (on Netflix), Aniara, splitting it up for two days of viewing. Sci-Fi. About a post-apocalyptic future, based on the Nobel Laureate Harry Martinson’s Sci-Fi poem by the same name.
A huge space ship, virtually a colony, goes off course on its way to Mars, and can’t right itself. The poem and the movie explore the devolution of humans over time under conditions of loss and being lost, without the comfort of old goals, some coping, others not. Weirdly beautiful and thought-provoking. A comment on consumerism as subtext as well.
Billy_TParticipantI went to a sports bar to watch most of the game. Wish I hadn’t. Though there were a couple points in the game that brought me some joy. The joy quickly ebbed away, though, after this or that interception, missed tackle, missed block, etc. etc.
I may end up trying to get the Sunday Ticket earlier than I had planned — hoping to save money suspending the service a bit longer, etc.
In a nutshell, the Rams embarrassed themselves. That might have been their worst defensive performance in ten years. Can’t remember the last time they tackled so poorly. Just atrocious. And Goff was like a rookie again, flailing away, though his line gave him little help. Poor performance on the line is going to lead most QBs into major errors. But I think a lot of that still falls on Goff. And the coaches. And the staff. etc.
Trap game? Were they looking past the Bucs to Seattle? I have no idea. But they better get a handle on this and soon, or they’re not even going to reach the playoffs. Yes, they have great talent . . . perhaps top three in the league overall. But sloppy play can negate that against most teams, and the Bucs were hungrier this Sunday.
Anyone else think the guy who speared Peters in the endzone should have been flagged, fined and thrown out of the game for that?
Players Only meetings are warranted, regardless.
September 29, 2019 at 10:38 pm in reply to: Classic asymmetry: Mueller doomed the Mueller Report. #105949Billy_TParticipantTrump is already losing his mind:
Excerpt:
Trump on Sunday night launched a Twitter offensive against Democrats, a whistleblower who lodged a formal complaint against him, and US House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff.
In a series of tweets, Trump accused Schiff of treason and demanded to meet with his accuser.
The tweetstorm follows House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s announcement last week that the House will launch a formal impeachment inquiry into Trump’s activities, in particular, a July 25 phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
An intelligence official lodged a whistleblower complaint against Trump on August 12, which alleges that Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate Former Vice President Joe Biden.
The complaint was declassified last week and a partial transcript of the call has also been released by the Trump administration. Both appear to corroborate reports that Trump pressed Zelensky to open an investigation into corruption allegations against Biden and his son, Hunter Biden.
Billy_TParticipantI’d add this kind of thing to the impeachment articles:
Excerpt:
Ireland paid Trump resort €100k to host police protecting him
Donald Trump’s resort on the west coast of Ireland was paid €100,000 (£89,000) by the Irish state to provide food to police officers protecting the US president during a two-night visit this year, it has emerged.
The Trump-owned hotel and golf course at Doonbeg received the largest slice of a bill for accommodation and food that came to more than €900,000. The expenditure covered police deployed across County Clare in June.
Trump’s visit to Doonbeg was his first since he was elected president in 2016 and involved about 3,820 members of the Irish police service, the Garda Síochána, working overtime at a cost of €7.49m.
Again, previous presidents at least had the decency to wait until after they left office to cash in.
Billy_TParticipantFederated, localized, democratic enclaves, publicly owned, for the common good . . . etc. etc.
I won’t live to see it, if it ever happens. But my faith is usually strong that it will, eventually.
Thanks for your response, WV.
=============
Well, I can envison ‘that’ kind of place too, BT. …maybe North of the Wall, in the Lands of Always Winter, past the Haunted Forest…ice clans, snow bears, and free peoples. Where capitalists are roasted on spits, and no-one dares to even think of ‘owning the land.’
Yeah, i can envision a good way of life in that version too.
…but pray that the Oil under the ground is not discovered….humans….
w
v
WV, you’re a poet at heart. Well done!! Perfect picture to accompany all of that too. I wish I had thought of it!!
Billy_TParticipantExcellent post, Zooey.
I favor impeachment, as mentioned already. In fact, I was for it long before this call came out. I think the Dems should have begun the inquiry on Day One, after they took the majority. But they were too afraid to be aggressive and actually fight tyranny. It seems that now, with this call, and the whistleblower report, they just have no other choice.
Trump has committed more than enough to do this, from kids in cages, to moving funds appropriated for schools to build his racist wall instead, to his unprecedented roll backs of our already too weak environmental standards, etc. etc. He’s also broken the law several times via emoluments and obstruction of justice. Even though Mueller’s sad, awkward testimony basically ended that stream of inquiry, his report is clear about Trump’s lies and obstruction. At least ten examples of his and his administration’s breaking the law concerning that.
The list is endless of his abuses of power, his cabinet’s grifting, his own self-dealing, his nepotism, his wheeling and dealing to enrich himself and his kids, etc. etc.
America has actually never dealt with such breadth of corruption before. Yes, we have a history of shady politics and shady politicians that rivals the worst of the worst around the world. But Trump is sui generis when it comes to this, and no president, at least in the last 100 years, has been so brazen in enriching himself while in office. Others have at least had the decency to wait until they left.
;>)
Trump, if he stays out of jail, will do both, which will be a first in our history. Slashing his own taxes, using taxpayer dollars to cash in now, and then the usual book deals and speeches and media plans once he’s out, etc.
It’s time to take a stand against this, regardless of outcome.
Billy_TParticipantApparently, I’ve been wrong is calling Ukraine “the” Ukraine. Didn’t know that. It’s just “Ukraine.”
(For those who have troubles accessing WaPo articles, just clear your cookies, cache and history first. I use a browser, Firefox, that lets you set that and forget it. It clears all of that out when you close it.)
Billy_TParticipantI like the way you think, WV. Though, as you know, stubborn, stubborn me wants all of capitalism, every last shred, gone, obliterated, replaced in full.
But your vision is a hella lot better than the current disaster. It’s not too dissimilar from Tony Judt’s vision in Ill Fares the Land. You go further than he does, and in a better direction, IMO. But it’s in the same ballpark.
It’s oh so frustrating when I talk about replacing capitalism, in toto; the knee-jerk reaction is always — except here — that I must then want Soviet Style (state capitalism) to replace it.
No. Not even close. I want a radically decentralized, fully democratic, community-centric, small is beautiful, egalitarian system . . . basically in the tradition of the major thinkers behind the Paris Commune of 1871, the left-anarchist enclaves in the Republican Spain of the 1930s, before Franco and Hitler crushed them . . . updated, using WSDEs and co-ops as building blocks, a la Richard Wolff and Gar Alperovitz. No centralized, command and control deal. Quite the opposite.
Federated, localized, democratic enclaves, publicly owned, for the common good . . . etc. etc.
I won’t live to see it, if it ever happens. But my faith is usually strong that it will, eventually.
Thanks for your response, WV.
Billy_TParticipantThat was heart-warming. And needed on this particular Saturday night.
Hang in there BT. And thanks for being part of our special little community.
I’ll try. Thanks for the good words and your work on our behalf.
Billy_TParticipantHow bout the Dems impeach the Pentagon.
w
v
==============================
Caitlin:https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/want-to-save-the-environment-de-fund-the-pentagon-c51f01b6f8abWant to save the Environment? De-Fund the Pentagon
Caitlin Johnstone“…And that’s just greenhouse gas emissions, which the Pentagon’s poisonous effects on our environment are in no way limited to. As journalist Whitney Webb highlighted in an excellent article for Mintpress News about the wildly neglected subject of the US military’s ecological toxicity: “Producing more hazardous waste than the five largest US chemical companies combined, the US Department of Defense has left its toxic legacy throughout the world in the form of depleted uranium, oil, jet fuel, pesticides, defoliants like Agent Orange and lead, among others.”
Webb documents how the US “has conducted more nuclear weapons tests than all other nations combined”, how US military interventionism in Iraq “has resulted in the desertification of 90 percent of Iraqi territory, crippling the country’s agricultural industry and forcing it to import more than 80 percent of its food,” and how “US military bases, both domestic and foreign, consistently rank among some of the most polluted places in the world.”
“While the US military’s past environmental record suggests that its current policies are not sustainable, this has by no means dissuaded the US military from openly planning future contamination of the environment through misguided waste disposal efforts,” Webb writes. “Last November, the US Navy announced its plan to release 20,000 tons of environmental ‘stressors,’ including heavy metals and explosives, into the coastal waters of the US Pacific Northwest over the course of this year.”…see link…”
I’m in favor of that, WV. Can we defund the entire empire while we’re at it?
Ya know, this really could be an awesome world for everyone, if we’d get to something like Hagglund’s vision. As long as it’s run for profit, for control, for geopolitical advantage, it won’t be. And we won’t survive as a species for much longer, either.
Billy_TParticipantThat was heart-warming. And needed on this particular Saturday night.
;>)
Billy_TParticipantThanks, WV.
Jane Goodall is a treasure. She’s like Chomsky for animals and the environment.
Much appreciated.
If you get the chance, would like to hear your own take on capitalism and the environment. Do you think it’s compatible with saving the planet?
Hope all is well —
Billy_TParticipantI understand why some people don’t see the point of impeaching Trump when there’s little chance of him being removed from office.
Polls show that less than half of the country wants him to be impeached. The same was true for Clinton’s impeachment and it backfired on the Republicans. His approval rating shot up to 60% as a result. Impeachment could be the best thing that could happen to Trump.
==================
Well, I cant imagine it changing one single solitary person’s mind about the situation. Thats the thing for me. People on Planet-MSNBC will cheer and people on Planet-Fox will jeer, and how will it change….anything?
The ‘symbolism’ wont mean anything except to the people who ‘already’ think he’s the devil. To the rest of the Nation it will just look like Dem-bullshit.
I dunno. I should shut up. Maybe my algebra is way off. Maybe I’m too influenced by all them rightwingers around me. They still blame Bill Clinton for everything 🙂
w
vJudging from the most recent polls, it looks like Americans have already changed their minds a bit. We’ve gone from a minority to a majority in favor of impeachment, and in one poll the question included “removal.”
Personally, I think the process will change minds. Not just centrist and conservative fence sitters. I have a feeling more than a few of our fellow leftists will reconsider things as well. Enough stuff has already come out to make it pretty obvious that Trump and his administration aren’t your run of the mill public trust abusers, and they’re a far bigger threat to the biosphere than previous regimes. They’re in another league, entirely, in fact. I mean, when has the EPA gone after a state (California) for having higher anti-pollution standards than the Feds? When has the Interior department given away two million recently protected acres to fossil fuel giants? Obama just protected them a few years ago, and now that’s all been reversed.
Trump is a tyrant and a danger to all of us. He needs to go. At worst, impeachment, even if it fails in the Senate, should act as a restraint of sorts on his worst impulses until he loses in 2020.
To me, it’s worth it just for that alone.
Billy_TParticipantI understand why some people don’t see the point of impeaching Trump when there’s little chance of him being removed from office.
Polls show that less than half of the country wants him to be impeached. The same was true for Clinton’s impeachment and it backfired on the Republicans. His approval rating shot up to 60% as a result. Impeachment could be the best thing that could happen to Trump.
Another way to look at it, Nittany:
Impeachment may well curb his worst impulses, which include using the power of his office to smear his opponents and try to put them in jail. Note the recent disclosure of the war against Obama state department officials and yet another investigation of Clinton and her email/server. They’ve retroactively classified relevant information, thus threatening dozens if not hundreds of former civil servants with jail time. This is 1984 stuff, and it will only get worse if Trump is set free and feels no restraints.
Remember, he made that call to Ukraine just a day after Mueller’s testimony landed with a thud in Congress, which Trump took as releasing him from further worries.
As for the effects of impeachment on Clinton and the Republicans. Did they really pay a price? They won the next election for the White House, and had majority control of Congress for most of the next eight years. I don’t see it as backfiring on the GOP at all.
Billy_TParticipantOh, and another key for me?
If the shoe were on the other foot, we all know the GOP wouldn’t hesitate for one second about impeachment. In fact, they would have done the impeachment thing two years sooner, and for far less.
Think about the eight plus investigations into Benghazi. And that was actually a national tragedy, with no hints of foul play by the Obama administration. None. No Dem stood to benefit from any of that. There was no possibility of personal gain for Obama or anyone in his administration. No political opponent was attacked by a Dem. But the GOP went ballistic and stayed on the offensive for years. Same with the emails, and Fast and Furious, and the IRS, etc. etc.
Compare and contrast the two parties. The GOP consistently goes for the jugular. The Dems consistently hesitate and wimp out. They’re finally, it seems, going to stand up to a tyrant. And, to me, I wouldn’t care if they got him on jay-walking. Again, think Al Capone. By any means (legal and) necessary.
Billy_TParticipant“…Trump may have withheld military aid to seek a probe into Biden, but it is hypocritically being framed by Democrats as an abuse of power out of the ordinary. But it is very much ordinary…”
=====================Well, I just dont get yall’s take on impeachment. Cuz if you agree with that quote up there, from the article up there, I just dont see how you can think Dems voting yes on Impeachment, and Reps voting no on Impeachment leads to…anything. I just dont see how any of it changes anything in today’s political landscape.
I mean read that quote slowly. Let the consequences of it sink in.
w
vThis is just me, WV:
I don’t accept that quote as logical or right. I don’t think it’s a valid conclusion, given the premise. First off, it’s simply not the norm for a sitting president to use taxpayer dollars as bait, threat, carrot and stick to go after political opponents in the upcoming election. Second, the Dems aren’t responsible, now, today, for what other administrations have done in the past. Each new Congress, each new Executive branch, each new Judiciary, is responsible for their own actions, not those of others in prior times. I don’t believe in “sins of the fathers” other than in the sense that we should learn from them, show humility because of them, and work hard never to repeat them.
But “hypocrisy”? Naww. The Dems gets to focus entirely on Trump’s actions in the here and now, and they should not, ever, not ever, not even remotely, feel afraid to do so simply because previous regimes have acted in bad faith or worse. This is now. That was then.
Just my take.
Billy_TParticipantWe’ve reached the 1984 stage in this monstrosity.
Billy_TParticipantBy the way…there are also phone calls between Trump and Putin, and between Trump and Mohammed BS in the “vault.”
I didn’t know this before, but Kashoggi was investigating Trump’s connection to the Saudis at the time he was murdered.
The transcripts of those phone calls are kind of relevant, I’d say.
That’s a big, big deal. Mueller and his team did not have access to any of that material. Who knows if they even knew it existed? My guess is they didn’t.
Given that we now know Trump told his laughing Russian friends in the Oval Office that he didn’t care at all about their election interference, his phone calls with Putin are very likely damning.
Oh, and then there’s this. I’d say this should be added to the impeachment articles when they come:
Excerpt:
By Greg Miller ,
Greg Jaffe and
Karoun Demirjian
September 28 at 7:47 PMThe Trump administration is investigating the email records of dozens of current and former senior State Department officials who sent messages to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s private email, reviving a politically toxic matter that overshadowed the 2016 election, current and former officials said.
As many as 130 officials have been contacted in recent weeks by State Department investigators — a list that includes senior officials who reported directly to Clinton as well as others in lower-level jobs whose emails were at some point relayed to her inbox, said current and former State Department officials. Those targeted were notified that emails they sent years ago have been retroactively classified and now constitute potential security violations, according to letters reviewed by The Washington Post.
[emphasis mine, etc.]
Billy_TParticipantA side note regarding tradition, etc.
I might be on an island on this one, but it bothered me a bit, the talk about the storied franchise history of the Cleveland Browns, before the Rams/Browns game.
In reality, that storied history is in Baltimore now. The Ravens are Jim Brown’s old team. Marion Motley, Leroy Kelly, Lou Groza, Paul Brown, etc. etc. Their team history left Cleveland and moved to Baltimore. What replaced it in 1999 was an expansion team. That ended all continuity with that past, IMO.
I don’t know how I’d feel as a Cleveland native and fan. Do you continue to root for the franchise in its Baltimore iteration? Or do you accept the new team in Cleveland? Either way, it strikes me as sleight of hand to think of that expansion team as the same thing as the old Cleveland Browns.
Would hate to have to decide the above if the Rams pulled the same crap. Would I go with the Rams in their new city, under a new name, with a different logo and no horns? Or would I root for the new LA Rams, a team without the slightest connection in reality to the Rams of Deacon, Merlin, Gabe, Warner, Holt, Dickerson, Gurley, etc. etc.?
Hope I never have to make that choice.
Billy_TParticipantFollowing up on the above.
I think Western civilization took a mad, dangerous, spectacularly horrible turn when it went from feudalism to capitalism. The far better change would have been to get rid of aristocratic controls, but keep the largely agrarian, localized, independent nature of feudal markets. Replace the aristocrats with true democracy, which can only be realized if the economy is included.
Political democracy without economic democracy is a sham.
Evolving from that foundation, communities would make sure their own economies fulfilled needs, solved problems, worked for the common good and created more and more free time. They would operate on the basis of use-value, not exchange-value. It’s the latter development, via capitalism, that has been so destructive of the environment. The production of stuff for the purpose of making (a few) people rich has to be among the very worst rationales for an economy, evah. Production, instead, should be for the purpose of fulfilling life-needs, first and foremost, which ties into the common good . . . and we make this sustainable by production to order, as needed, not on the basis of (potential) future sales.
Production to order radically reduces, if not eliminates, waste. Do that and you immediately reduce pollution. Capitalism, OTOH, will always and forever overproduce goods and services, both because it doesn’t produce to order, and because its profit motive prevents it from ever paying workers enough to actually afford the things they make. As in, capitalism will always create excessive inventories, which can only be reduced, if ever, via government supplements and endless debt. But it’s the endless loop of production and consumption that kills the environment, not just the overproduction. Consumer goods invariably end up trashed, in landfills, in the oceans. Capitalism must sell new goods, or it goes under, so it doesn’t want anything to last long.
. . .
More on the above later . . .
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