ZN, on those Covid-19 debates . . .

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  • August 19, 2020 at 10:13 am #119606
    Billy_T
    Participant

    I checked out that other site and noticed some bizarre goings on.

    Not seeing why a certain person was upset with your posts. The people that person should be upset with are the folks posting dangerous nonsense about our supposed “over-reaction,” which is still, as of August, an obscenely dangerous under-reaction. And, those people invariable resort to red herrings, straw men and assorted non-humans for their arguments.

    Also: not seeing anyone calling for lockdowns**. Though, ironically, if we had started our lockdown process in, say, early February, with a nation-wide mask-up, we could have gotten back (almost) to “normal” in the early spring. As in, start early enough, get on the same page as a nation, and we could have opened schools relatively safely this fall, had our sports fix, and had most of the economy back on track months ago.

    Our half-assed, erratic, spotty, all oars rowing in different directions approach has extended this disaster well beyond what could have been, not to mention the deaths that never had to be.

    Ironically, the very same people shouting the loudest about their rights and freedoms are the folks who extended this mess waaay beyond its original shelf life. Their refusal to wear masks is at the heart of why we can’t get back to any semblance of normal.

    **The use of the “everyone is calling for lockdowns!” hysteria is kinda like this:

    Teacher: Bobby, you need to rewrite this one paper. It’s not up to your usual work standards.Just this one and you should be fine.

    Bobby: So you’re saying I need to redo all of my work in your class, from Day One!!

    Teacher: No. Just that

      one

    paper.

    (Bobby goes on a crusade. Tells his parents. They tell their state rep, then senator, and it goes all the way to the president and his state media arm, Infowars.

    “My fellow Americans, this is what happens when teachers run amok! They’re telling their students they all must repeat their entire schooling history, from K-12! All of it! These Social Justice Warriors have thrown out the hard work of an entire lifetime for these students, and this will not stand!””)

    • This topic was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Billy_T.
    August 19, 2020 at 10:33 am #119609
    zn
    Moderator

    Yeah I agree with all of that, in terms what you say about policies around covid-19.

    I especially agree that if there were national leadership on this, then, the erratic, state by state approach could have been mitigated. Trump for example did not endorse masks until July 21st, and that was in response to a resurgence of hospitalizations he initially dismissed as just more testing so more positives.

    The countries that managed to get ahead of this were instituting national mask mandates (among other things) in early April.

    Honestly, if Trump had gotten ahead on this, going back to April, I would have no problem saying he did it right…in spite of everything else I think of Trump’s other policies, words, and actions.

    …

    August 19, 2020 at 10:33 am #119610
    Billy_T
    Participant

    If I understand the rationale correctly, a lockdown’s purpose is this and such:

    Give the medical system time to catch its breath, organize, stock up, staff up — which it still hasn’t done — clean up, etc. etc. A two to four week scenario should have been sufficient for that, with the caveat of new inputs always require adjustments.

    So, in my (much better) scenario, we would have started a nation-wide lockdown after we discovered the pandemic, which was January (or perhaps even December). Shut down, except for essential workers/services, etc. . . . for two to four weeks, set up necessary infrastructure, staff up, stock up, get ready on a nation-wide basis . . . then, mask-up mandates everywhere, no exceptions, and de-lockdown all but the obvious stuff. As in, services and locales where masks are pretty much canceled out. As in, eating and drinking establishments. Switch those to pick-up and delivery instead.

    I’d also — and this would greatly help the economy — retro-fit as much of the nation’s public spaces to be touch-free. Doors, windows, cabinets, etc. etc. . . . but especially bathrooms. At no time should we have to touch any surface areas in the bathroom, and so on.

    It’s almost September. Has we done the right thing(s), we likely could have been almost “normal” last Spring. And our death counts likely would have been a few percentage points of what they are today.

    August 19, 2020 at 10:37 am #119611
    Billy_T
    Participant
    zn wrote:

    Yeah I agree with all of that, in terms what you say about policies around covid-19.

    I especially agree that if there were national leadership on this, then, the erratic, state by state approach could have been mitigated. Trump for example did not endorse masks until July 21st, and that was in response to a resurgence of hospitalizations he initially dismissed as just more testing so more positives.

    The countries that managed to get ahead of this were instituting national mask mandates (among other things) in early April.

    Honestly, if Trump had gotten ahead on this, going back to April, I would have no problem saying he did it right…in spite of everything else I think of Trump’s other policies, words, and actions.

    …

    Agreed.

    There’s a reason (reasons) why New Zealand, last time I checked, had 22 deaths, and we have 172K. Which reminds me of another major problem in these discussions.

    Death counts are always, always undercounted, when it comes to pandemics or seasonal flu. So the folks saying this is all a hoax, or an overreaction, are doubly, triply wrong. Chances are high that that 172K figure is at least three times higher, and I’ve seen methodology that puts it at six times higher on average.

    In short, none of this had to be. And the folks making it a thousand times worse are the folks saying we “overreacted” blah blah blah.

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