The twitter censorship thing

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  • #138489
    wv
    Participant

    I have not given this a lot of thot, but my gut reaction to these “twitter/facebook/whatever is censoring me!” outcries is…kinda…tepid.

    I just never ‘expect’ capitalist-internet-corporations to do anything other

    than fulfill their ‘propaganda function’.

     

    It would be like expecting the Police to stop upholding the property laws,

    or something.   Its never going to happen.

     

    Doesnt mean i dont ‘care’ about the issue, but just means, I’ve concluded….ya know.

     

    In a sane, non-capitalist country the damn internet would be Free, and and a computer would be provided for every citizen.  (along with health care, etc)

    And a twitter-like platform would be provided for everyone and it would be run by everyone in a democratic manner, etc, etc, and so forth.

     

    In sum, yes, twitter/facebook/TV/radio/Newspapers/etc suck.  And no, I dont expect capitalist media to act differently.   I would be astonished if they acted differently.

     

    We are doomed.  Have a nice day.

     

    w

    v

     

     

    #138497
    Zooey
    Participant

    The other thing on that is that, in my experience, just seems like most people – when they talk about “rights” – they’re talking about their “rights,” and don’t care about infringements on the rights of other people. Ya know…what’s the Venn Diagram look like for people complaining about infringements on their Freedom of Speech and people who support banning CRT, or books, and whatnot?

    And Musk isn’t buying Twitter because he cares about freedom of speech. He’s buying it because it’s a tool to control the narrative.

    #138499
    Billy_T
    Participant

    I think the main problem is that too many Americans don’t get that democracy and capitalism are in direct opposition, and always will be. They’re permanently incompatible. Far too many seem to believe the two are natural fits, while some even believe the former can thrive when the latter is in place.

    Economic apartheid (capitalism) will never support political democracy. It can’t. True democracy, if it were in place, would rightfully obliterate capitalism, and it’s hard to imagine that capitalists don’t get that, especially rich creeps like Musk. When capitalism is in place, democracy exists in name only, as a gadfly of sorts, with occasional victories and measures, here and there, but that’s it. Some nations, with Scandinavia likely leading the way, extend the range of the gadfly more than others, but in most cases the range is all too narrow and always precarious. With the exception of the all too brief Keynesian period (FDR thru LBJ, roughly), it’s been far worse than just precarious.

    Social media allows “free speech” only to the extent that it helps generate capital accumulation. As in, only under its own rules, which means it doesn’t really exist there.

    Another issue, of course, is the meaning of “free speech” itself. That is yet another scene of grotesque misunderstanding, even beyond the absurdities of assuming we’ll ever have “democratic rights” under capitalism.

    #138500
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    The First Amendment limits the government’s ability to “abridge” speech.  There are no such restrictions on what Corporations can do.  They can do whatever they want.

    #138501
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Another key thing that goes unsaid all too often, even by leftists:

    Our participation in social media extends (and makes far easier) the era of free content pillaging by capitalists. It’s yet another innovation in getting consumers to both buy stuff and work for free. We willingly provide intellectual property to capitalists for nada, and they add insult to injury by also plundering all the stuff we don’t volunteer: our personal meta-info. It’s yet another evolutionary step well beyond self-service gas-stations, etc.

    As Jason Hickel describes so well in Less is More, capitalism was built on endless pillaging of formerly free externals, follows that with forced and artificial scarcity, and must continue this, world without end. It must always take far more than it gives. Social media provides one of its easiest routes to plunder, evah.

    In short, leftists, IMO, should be investing in our own, democratically controlled media — to the extent possible. Thinking we can “democratize” Twitter is . . . . um, well, absurd. It’s not gonna happen. And until that happens, we need to find ways to use it, instead of being used by it.

    I know. Easier said than done.

    #138502
    Billy_T
    Participant

    The First Amendment limits the government’s ability to “abridge” speech. There are no such restriction on what Corporations can do. They can do whatever they want.

    Yep.

    I find this to be the case especially with people on the political right.  They often confuse the right to free speech with the right to access vehicles and platforms for communication. Even within the limited realm of “Congress can not legislate,” there has never been a “right” to access those platforms or vehicles of communication. And it would be impossible to enforce such a “right” even if it existed.

    That would mean every person turned down for a book deal, a radio show, a TV show, a part in the movie, etc. etc. . . . could sue on the basis of denial of free speech.

    Platforms and vehicles for speech aren’t speech. When a university turns down a speaker, for example, that is not a violation of their “free speech.” That is a choice they obviously, logically have to make every time they choose this or that speaker over dozens or hundreds of others. Same thing with books, records, movies, newspaper columns, etc. etc.

    #138507
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    I think the main problem is that too many Americans don’t get that democracy and capitalism are in direct opposition, and always will be. They’re permanently incompatible. Far too many seem to believe the two are natural fits, while some even believe the former can thrive when the latter is in place.

    I know some people who think capitalism and democracy are synonymous – two words that mean the same thing.  To reverse that, you’d have to overcome a century and a half of programming.  Programming that stresses individualistic “self-made” fallacies that people are immersed in not only at work, but at church, school, in the media – everywhere.

    Not sure how you change that.  Certainly not at the voting booth.

     

     

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