our reactions to the Seattle game

ZN,

You really don’t care about the turnovers? I’m shocked

Of course the QB is going to be scrutinized. In looking at other “playoff caliber” QBs, how does Goff compare to any of the seven QBs that have already clinched a playoff spot for their teams (Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Wilson, Mahomes, Roethlisberger, Allen)? Is he better than any of them? Would you not take every single one of these other QBs over Goff if you could? My frustration is that Goff’s agent negotiated a top 3-6 QB salary for five or so seasons, and we are getting nowhere near top 3-6 QB play. Are we even getting top half play?

Another perspective, in looking at all the major financial bets that the Rams have made in shaping this team, across all positions, which player is playing worse in their defined role, or having a greater impact on the Rams ability to win at a high level this season?

Top Cap Hits 2020

1. Jared Goff – $28.8MM
2. Aaron Donald – $25.0MM
3. Tyler Higbee – $9.1MM
4. Robert Woods – $8.4MM
5. Leonard Floyd – $6.7MM
6. Andrew Whitworth – $6.6MM
7. Rob Havenstein – $6.2MM
8. Jalen Ramsey – $6.2MM
9. Johnny Hekker – $4.7MM
10. Troy Hill – $4.4MM
11. Austin Blythe – $4.0MM
12. Michael Brockers – $3.8MM
13. Cooper Kupp – $3.4MM
14. John Johnson – $2.3MM
15. Josh Reynolds – $2.3MM
16. Samson Ebukam – $2.3MM

Whitworth is injured, but other than that, who among these high rollers has been more disappointing?

I know no one wants to hear complaints, but I have grievances…

His consistency, with turning over the ball, spans two seasons not just one game. So OL, yeah I would say that’s an area of improvement, especially yesterday, but its a second place for me.

It doesn’t explain his sliding a yard short of a first down, or the couple of times he seemed unwilling to run up a gap when nothing was available, or most of all that that god awful decision to throw the ball to Diggs. There was nowhere near enough pressure to explain his decision making on that play.

Also, Wilson has been pressured far more over the course of the season than Goff. Yesterday, he was sacked more and hit just as many times, and yet still he put together two TD drives where Goff came away with nothing.

Quandre Diggs with a smooth interception 💯💯@NFL | #Seahawks pic.twitter.com/AK6bcMgHv8

— FanSided (@FanSided) December 27, 2020

• This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by RamsMaineiac.

I think it is true that the OL has not held up well recently. I don’t know why. I mean…Noteboom and the OL did well for a couple of games after Whitworth went down, so why now? Maybe defenses are pressuring differently now, and found a weakness to exploit. I dunno.

And…I agree Goff’s performance is affected by pressure. All QBs are affected by pressure.

But that interception was Terrible. He was not under duress when he threw that. And it did not appear that the ball slipped and came out sideways. It looked like he threw it there deliberately, and a QB with his experience should not make a horrendous throw like that. Goff just has an inexplicable quality to him where he goes all D&D and throws the 20-sided dice and makes insanely precise throws or misses his receiver by 5 yards. He has a Beserker arm.

I am ambivalent about Goff. I don’t think the Rams should get rid of him. He’s okay, and having lived through some genuinely terrible quarterbacks as a Rams fan, I will take Goff. I don’t think he will ever be All Pro. Nothing from yesterday changes my opinion of him. He’s a 10-15 QB still, and I think that’s where he will always be. If everything else clicks, and Akers becomes Good Gurley, than he can be 8-10. He will never be Mahomes or Rogers or Brees. He is not going to the Hall of Fame. He won’t get a State Farm commercial. And I think these questions about him will never be put to rest because days like yesterday are common for him. It contained a WTF interception, and a failure to generate a comeback. I don’t have any confidence that Goff will hit Proehl in the end zone, or connect with Bruce to win a Super Bowl while being hit. Goff just doesn’t have “It.” Whatever “It” is. People talk about “will to win” and other phrases, none of which really hold up to explication, so I will just call it “it.”

Talk about him lacking toughness should vanish after yesterday, though. Like one of the yapping people on tv said, that was a hockey player move resetting his thumb and finishing the game.

And I don’t know about the play-calling, either. I will remember this season as the year the Rams never went deep, and Goff threw a million passes that travelled 15 yards horizontally, and 3 yards vertically. They have abandoned throws over 15 yards vertically, and it doesn’t seem like they attack the middle of the field much. This offense is pretty pedestrian, and seems to me they miss Cooks a lot more than I thought they would.

I agree with that. He was pressing. And it didn’t cost the game. The failure to score from inside the 1-yard line on two tries is a more significant failure.

It was still a Terrible throw.

BTW, I haven’t seen the Reynolds play at the end of the game mentioned.

They only showed the replay from behind the play once on TV, but it looked to me like the Seahawk touched Reynolds on the helmet strong enough for Reynolds head to bob on contact as he was headed to the ground. I don’t think Reynolds made a bonehead move. I think the ref missed that Reynolds was down. He had control of the ball as he was going down, so by rule, he was down.

How many times was Wilson pressured yesterday?

Comparatively:
Wilson 32 drop backs, sacked 5 times, hit 8 times = 2TDs and QBR of 93.9.
Goff 43 drop backs, sacked 3 times, hit 9 times = no TDs and a QBR of 61.6.

zn wrote:

One of the common mistakes I see when people talk about pressure is this idea that if there is no visible pressure on a particular play, then pressure wasn’t the issue. That is not how it works though. Constant pressure erodes timing, play design, general effectiveness, and confidence. It has an effect on playcalling.It means you’re in more disadvantageous situations more often (like 3rd and long). It usually also means you’re playing from behind, which just increases the pressure issue. In the Rams case it means this–teams like Seattle know they can sit on all those short routes without fear of punishment because the qb will never have time to find a receiver who gets deeper.

With Goff, what pressure does is get him to press–he tries to make plays when they’re not there, and usually his mechanics are off too. No qb gets the time to go “am I pressured this play or not, let’s see….” They go yikes I am running, the play’s not there, but I need to do something (which is pressing). That was the INT.

i understand that. it was still a terrible throw. one of his worst.

and it’s not just a does a qb get affected by pressure or not. it’s not a binary thing. you have some qbs who are pressure resistant. you have some qbs who completely fall apart under pressure. and then you have qbs who fall somewhere between those two points. i think goff is somewhere in between. where that is is debatable.

Zooey wrote:

Wilson is better than Goff.

yeah. it’s not a question of toughness or will to win here. wilson is just a better qb than goff. he’s a hall of famer. he’s one of the best in the last 10 years or so. it’s not a question of if goff is as tough as wilson. wilson’s an elite qb.

Zooey wrote:

Yep. They had good starting position frequently.

And they didn’t turn over the ball. The Rams, crucially, did turn it over on a drive that would have ended in points.

And they stuffed the Rams twice from inside the one.

Ball game.

several key plays.

1. darious williams misses an interception i think in the first quarter. right in the bread basket. and i’m pretty sure he takes it to the house if he doesn’t take off running before securing the ball.

2. goff throws an interception in the second quarter that most likely takes 3 points away from the rams.

ok. right there that puts the rams up 16-6 going into the second half.

3. rams get stuffed two times and fail to score a td from the 1 yard line. i think that was the third quarter?

4. seahawks. wilson leads seattle on a clutch td drive to ice the game.

that’s 24 points right there.

My take…like last week, it was the oline folding. And it’s also lack of a burner that can stretch the field. I think we miss Cooks, despite his inconsistent play and injuries. His speed had to be accounted for by DCs. Now, it’s just a short, horizontal passing game. I don’t remember if they took a deep strike at all yesterday.

What a turn of events in two weeks…in control of the division, then the humiliation of losing to the Jets and now the injuries.

2020

zn wrote:

Okay. I’m not sure the degrees of difference between qbs are big ones though. I think there’s guys who can often (not always) handle it (Brady, Wilson) and then everyone else–with maybe nuances of difference between and among everyone else.

But with minor differences I think we’re saying more or less the same thing, so, no board war. Of course if Ozone is right (post before mine) the scheme factors into this too. Right now the scheme looks like it’s easy for some defenses to shut down. Could be.

jourdan rodrigue wrote an article. either yesterday or today. describing how mcvay went from scrapping any kind of a vertical passing game to going almost exclusively horizontal. i wonder if defenses have figured it out and are sitting on these short routes.

https://theathletic.com/2287161/2020/12/28/jared-goff-john-wolford-thumb/

i don’t know if i can copy and paste the article. it’s a paysite.

the Rams re-worked their offense this season to operate more efficiently. They wanted to minimize low-probability air-yards plays downfield, have lots of low concepts for high-efficiency plays and minimize turnovers. That's all they are asking for, is to not turn the ball over.

— Jourdan Rodrigue (@JourdanRodrigue) December 27, 2020

• This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by InvaderRam.