LaCanfora: Bradford, offense backed by beastly defense

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  • #3222
    zn
    Moderator

    Rams training camp: Bradford, offense backed by beastly defense

    Jason La Canfora

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24647896/rams-training-camp-bradford-offense-complemented-by-beastly-defense

    EARTH CITY, Mo. — Large bodies were tumbling around the feet of Sam Bradford, and he never flinched. The Rams quarterback didn’t pick up his feet or hop back, he completed the play — aware of, but not spooked by, the scene around him as he practiced on his surgically repaired ACL.

    Of course, those bodies were wearing the same gold and blue that he was, were not in full pads, and repeatedly had been instructed to stay the heck away from the $13M-a-year-quarterback’s knee. Things will be very different later this week when the Rams make their preseason debut, and the speed and intensity of play rises exponentially from there in the regular season. While Bradford has wowed his bosses with his comeback to this point, the reality is the first year back from an injury like this, especially playing a position so very much in the line of fire, can be tricky.

    This is yet another make-or-break season for Bradford, the 2011 first-overall pick who has yet to take the Rams to the playoffs, or even play at a consistently high level, and who is signed through 2015 on his rookie contract (set to make $13M in 2015). As per the old CBA, he’s already made franchise money (he’s pocketed his $50M in guaranteed money), and his growth, or lack thereof, could very well decide how far this organization goes in the near future.

    The Rams have a deep roster. They are loaded with top-of-the-draft talent and may have the league’s most physical defense. But playing in the loaded, brutally tough NFC West, they will need quality quarterback play to rise from the 8-8 type finishes that have become the norm.

    From everything I’ve gathered, Bradford has been good — not great — in practices, which is to be expected at this point in his recovery. Expecting too much might be naïve — even the great Tom Brady was not himself much of his first year back from an ACL tear — but the Rams say they are pleased with their quarterback’s progress. We’ll see if this is the season Bradford and the Rams break out.

    “Sam hasn’t missed a snap,” Coach Jeff Fisher said. “He had a great summer, was throwing with guys in Oklahoma, came back [and} smoked the conditioning test, which is a running test. He’s having a good camp.”

    Fisher and the Rams did everything they could to publically support Bradford this offseason, when some (me included) thought it made sense to explore options via trade and perhaps dedicate one of their higher draft picks to a quarterback. The Rams did oodles of work on quarterbacks in the 2014 draft, and their intrigue regarding Johnny Manziel was very real. Had Johnny Football fallen a little bit deeper I wouldn’t have been surprised if the Rams traded back into the first round to grab him.

    I have a hard time thinking they won’t be incredibly mindful of quarterbacks again as they prepare for the 2015 draft. It would be silly if they weren’t. You either get an extension done with Bradford after the season, or you deal him, in my opinion. He’s as good a kid as there is in this league, but he’s not a novice quarterback anymore and every other team in this division has made a major upgrade at quarterback the past two seasons. Even if you keep him around through the end of his rookie deal (with the franchise tag a possibility), I’d want to be developing a potential replacement by this time next year just in case.

    For years the issue was the cast around Bradford, but the upgrades are beyond noticeable now. The offensive line has been fortified through the draft and free agency, with veterans Jake Long, Scott Wells and Rodger Saffold all healthy now (and the hope is they will remain so). There also is no shortage of receivers making plays all over the field at camp, including several with great size. Kenny Britt has people around the team pinching themselves with what he is doing on the field and off, and there is a very strong buzz around third-year receiver Brian Quick and second-year receiver Stedman Bailey. If a few of them can keep it up, this offense has the potential to make significant strides.

    “A few of them really look like they are for real,” said one member of the organization. “If they are, then that’s a major game-changer.”

    Quick, who is 6-foot-3, was making plays in the back of the end zone and showing elusiveness. Bailey doesn’t have that kind of size, but has strong all-around technique and started to win over trust in the second half of last season. Britt, another big receiver, is in great shape and looks explosive again coming out of cuts, and while it is very, very early, and he has been quite troubled in the past, he seems like a changed man and a motivated player, which could be a huge boost for this offense.

    “I feel so good. I feel healthy, and for me this is a fresh start,” Britt said. “I’m excited about this team.”

    Given Britt’s long track record of utterly unproductive seasons, coupled with repeated run-ins with the law and a suspension, I’m not going to go out on a limb in July. But he is exactly the kind of troubled player Jeff Fisher has had success helping rehab. Britt has a history with Fisher going back to the Titans, and he’s been productive with Fisher as his coach.

    “Fish lets me be myself and come out to practice and talk a lot, because that’s me,” Britt said. “And for him to let me do that, it’s an honor.”

    There is no doubt that when he’s in shape, Britt has a nice combination of size and speed he has flashed brilliantly at times. The Rams need big targets for Bradford, and considering how little he’s played in recent years, Britt is actually a young 25. He had only 11 catches for 96 yards all of last season, and he’s started only 17 games the past three seasons since grabbing nine touchdowns in 2010. But he’s done enough so far to inspire optimism and I expect him to get plenty of preseason work. Not too long ago Britt looked like a guy who might fall out of the league. This might be his last real shot, and he knows it.

    “For sure, and when I hurt my ACL that taught me a lot about that,” Britt said. “This could be taken away from you at any minute and to get this chance, and to get back together with Coach Fisher, it’s just great.”

    Donald to boost already stellar D: A year ago at this time I had a pretty good hunch a defensive tackle, of all positions, was going to be the NFL’s defensive rookie of the year. I was correct, as the Jets’ Sheldon Richardson had a beastly season and was deserving of the accolade. This year, I’d put my money on Rams rookie defensive lineman Aaron Donald.

    The first-round pick arrived here already a man, ready to make immediate impact despite playing such a demanding position, and he hasn’t disappointed. New defensive coordinator Gregg Williams will put this kid in a position to thrive, and with so much talent around him on the defensive line, the Rams might get as much A-gap pressure as any team in the league. Rams brass still can’t believe Donald made it out of the top 10 picks, and look for him to boost to an already powerful group.

    “He’s absolutely a very polished rookie in pass rush,” said Chris Long, a monster pass rusher himself. “One of the most polished rookies I’ve ever seen as far as his technique. Somebody along the line coached him up pretty well. We were sitting in the room the other day watching film, and I said to him, ‘Who taught you to watch film and play with technique?’ Not all kids coming in have that.”

    Donald began turning heads upon his arrival at offseason work, and he hasn’t stopped making jaws drop. He’s been a bear to handle in individual drills, and with Long, Robert Quinn (maybe the game’s best pass rusher) and Michael Brockers around him, this might be the best 4-3 front in the NFL. The scariest part is that none of them has fully reached his prime.

    “He’s been all you could hope for,” Fisher said of Donald. “You always wonder, ‘Well, let’s see what happens when the pads come on.’ He is the real deal. He adds production to an already productive group.”

    “This is the best front I’ve ever had a chance to be a part of,” echoed Williams, a lifetime coach who has had top-10 defenses with far less individual brilliance at tackle and end.

    Williams, who is as multiple with packages and as creative as it gets, had already put his stamp on a talented group, with them playing with more intensity and speed, swarming to the ball, and trying to cause turnovers whenever possible. Some of his young defensive backs were even trying to knock the ball from running back Zac Stacy’s hands as he ran back to the line after a drill was over. The message to hunt the football is getting through, and this already-beastly group looks poised for even bigger things.

    More camp observations: It’s hard not to think this might be the Rams’ last training camp in St. Louis. Lease-wise, the team is a free-agent at the end of the season, and the owner already owns a parcel of land in Los Angeles fit for a stadium. The rush to be the first team to go back to LA is heating up (Oakland, San Diego, among others), and with the sale price of the Bills only further indicating the worth of these franchise (the $2B purchase price for the flippin’ LA Clippers did not go unnoticed in NFL circles), I truly believe 2015 is the year a team may actually get the ball rolling for that move. Considering the Rams used to be in SoCal, they’d have to be in that conversation.

    • Michael Sam is anything but a distraction around here. He’s just another guy trying to get a roster spot, same as any other seventh-round pick. His lack of size is a problem, he isn’t dynamic when changing direction. And he plays a position where the Rams have abundant depth. He’s going to have to show something on special teams I figure, or he could get caught up in the numbers game. The early returns haven’t been all that strong from what I gather. Regardless, there is no shortage of people in this organization rooting for him, and the Rams have done a tremendous job helping him through his unique journey into the NFL. I’m just not sure it ends up lasting into September.

    • I’m still not sure how much Tavon Austin will get the ball in his hands. The Rams gave up a lot to move up and get him in the first round in 2013, but he is so small, and I’m not sure the stuff he did in the backfield at West Virginia is going to really translate at this level. I figure he sees his share of bubble screens, and pops up occasionally on deep stuff downfield, but I’m interested to see if he can really be a big cog in this offense, which is being counted on to take a major step forward.

    • The Rams are taking precautions with corner Janoris Jenkins, who has ball-hawking ability but is still learning, and are giving him some time off to rest a muscle strain. They’re high on him, though third-year corner Trumaine Johnson has been making strides as well. Johnson had some technique slips early in the practice I saw, but the kid responded with a strong practice overall, picking off Bradford in the end zone in a red zone drill. The Rams feel their elite pass rush is going to help them continue to develop the young secondary on the fly. “T.J. is having an outstanding camp, and we’ve got some depth now, too,” said Fisher, which is an indication of just how far the Rams have developed this roster since the arrival of GM Les Snead and Fisher. In 2011 they cut 37 players who ended up essentially out of the league; this offseason the first two players they released were snapped up by other clubs within a few days.

    • I’d expect Zac Stacy to remain the bell cow of this offense after his breakout 2013 season, but there is a deep group of backs. No signs of Stacy taking a step back for him and the Rams continue to find ways to get Benny Cunningham on the field as well.

    • The Rams seem very content to leave first-round pick Greg Robinson at guard, despite his massive size and the possibility of him projecting to an elite left tackle. His pass protection remains a big work in progress, but he is an absolute handful physically and will be an anchor on the interior offensive line. If the Rams suffered an injury to a tackle they’d move Saffold back to tackle in all likelihood rather than shift Robinson over. The return of center Wells, removed from the injured list this week, provided a huge boost of experience, smarts and know-how as well, though keeping him healthy has proved difficult. “They were two freak injuries but we’re excited about where he is,” Fisher said of Wells. If that tandem can play 16 games together, the Rams should be fortified up front for the upcoming battles they will have against NFC West defenses.

    #3232
    zn
    Moderator

    These are just some things we wouldn’t hear unless LaConfora went in there and talked to people in the organization. That is, it’s more than just a reporter quoting from press conferences.

    ..

    “A few of them [ie. the receivers] really look like they are for real,” said one member of the organization. “If they are, then that’s a major game-changer.”

    Rams brass still can’t believe Donald made it out of the top 10 picks, and look for him to boost to an already powerful group.

    “He’s absolutely a very polished rookie in pass rush,” said Chris Long, a monster pass rusher himself. “One of the most polished rookies I’ve ever seen as far as his technique. Somebody along the line coached him up pretty well. We were sitting in the room the other day watching film, and I said to him, ‘Who taught you to watch film and play with technique?’ Not all kids coming in have that.”

    The Rams are taking precautions with corner Janoris Jenkins, who has ball-hawking ability but is still learning, and are giving him some time off to rest a muscle strain. They’re high on him, though third-year corner Trumaine Johnson has been making strides as well.

    #3253
    rfl
    Participant

    For years the issue was the cast around Bradford, but the upgrades are beyond noticeable now. The offensive line has been fortified through the draft and free agency, with veterans Jake Long, Scott Wells and Rodger Saffold all healthy now (and the hope is they will remain so). There also is no shortage of receivers making plays all over the field at camp, including several with great size. Kenny Britt has people around the team pinching themselves with what he is doing on the field and off, and there is a very strong buzz around third-year receiver Brian Quick and second-year receiver Stedman Bailey. If a few of them can keep it up, this offense has the potential to make significant strides.

    “A few of them really look like they are for real,” said one member of the organization. “If they are, then that’s a major game-changer.”

    This is what Bradford has never had in all his time here. We have never in that time period heard the sort of buzz we are hearing about WRs. SB as the route runner. KB and BQ as the big, slashing, physical guys with downfield speed. (Givens had speed, but never turbo charged it with either physicality or route running.) The sense that we may have guys who can assert themselves.

    Of course, it’s early days. Indeed. Quick may not maintain his confidence in real competition. Britt may flake out. Bailey isn’t available until Week 6. We’ll see.

    But the point made here is spot on. If these 3 guys actually play assertively, then it is a major game changer.

    I’ve said all along that no one can really judge Sam either way until he has a chance to play with WRs who can assert themselves. Well, if these guys change the game, we’ll be able to see. Can he make plays when they are there to be made? Fact is, they have NOT been there to be made to this point.

    But it will also change the game for Tavon. Last year, if he got the ball underneath, he was looking at secondaries that could get away with cheating up. They did not respect our WRs, and therefore they could squeeze him into shrinking space. However, the minute they have to start respecting our WRs, the whole dynamic will change for Tavon. He will have space to run into and will have guys just breaking off from their coverage of other guys. I think it’s quite clear that in such circumstances he will be able to burn people.

    And as we all know, a perimeter passing threat opens things up for the running game as well. You guys know the drill.

    Put it together and you get a 3 tier offensive threat:
    3 Medium to long perimeter passing game
    2 short 1/3 passing game to slots, RBs, and TEs.
    1 Running game

    Because we have not had the top end of the offense, defenses have squeezed our #1 and #2 attacks. Against good NFL defenses, that is not going to work.

    Given a respectable top end, all 3 tiers of the offense can work together to stretch and stress defenses. That will make an enormous difference … if it comes true.

    I think we can trust our OL and RBs to give us a grinding running game. Without the top tier, that will be about it.

    With a respectable top tier and decent pass blocking, our offense can make a major leap forward. We won’t challenge DEN for offensive preeminence. But balanced synergy between the 3 tiers could very well push our passing game into the top dozen while freeing our running game to shine.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by rfl.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #3256
    rfl
    Participant

    Rams brass still can’t believe Donald made it out of the top 10 picks, and look for him to boost to an already powerful group.

    “He’s absolutely a very polished rookie in pass rush,” said Chris Long, a monster pass rusher himself. “One of the most polished rookies I’ve ever seen as far as his technique. Somebody along the line coached him up pretty well. We were sitting in the room the other day watching film, and I said to him, ‘Who taught you to watch film and play with technique?’ Not all kids coming in have that.”

    Donald began turning heads upon his arrival at offseason work, and he hasn’t stopped making jaws drop. He’s been a bear to handle in individual drills, and with Long, Robert Quinn (maybe the game’s best pass rusher) and Michael Brockers around him, this might be the best 4-3 front in the NFL. The scariest part is that none of them has fully reached his prime.

    “He’s been all you could hope for,” Fisher said of Donald. “You always wonder, ‘Well, let’s see what happens when the pads come on.’ He is the real deal. He adds production to an already productive group.”

    This kid is beyond freaking belief. Talent PLUS devotion and effort PLUS veteran-level technique right out of college? Playing next to Quinn? Please!

    If you’re like me, you can’t believe we got this guy.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #3257
    zn
    Moderator

    Fact is, they have NOT been there to be made to this point.

    But it will also change the game for Tavon. Last year, if he got the ball underneath, he was looking at secondaries that could get away with cheating up.

    Great post as usual.

    I know you watched rewind last year. So I gather what you say there in the quotation comes from lots of eyeballin.

    My impression though was that the Carolina game was different. The Panthers took Stacy seriously, and that gave Bradford more room to air it out. He had a very good YPA in that game before going out.

    It’s possible then that the play-action advantage/synergy you talk about is just there under the surface.

    What’s your feeling on that?

    ==

    This kid is beyond freaking belief. Talent PLUS devotion and effort PLUS veteran-level technique right out of college? Playing next to Quinn? Please!

    If you’re like me, you can’t believe we got this guy.

    I forget, were you there for the draft thread? One of the themes early in the day as the different picks got turned in was “Donald’s still there…Donald might still be there…hey maybe Donald will be there…”

    Quinn fell too.

    Now and then some unexpected good luck surfaces for these Rams.

    #3264
    rfl
    Participant

    Well, the play action thing is, to me, a style thing as well as a synergy issue.

    Sam clearly thrives in play action. That the style of QB he is. And, of course, play action doesn’t work if you can’t run the ball. Obviously, it helped the passing game when we started running the ball effectively. Sam was starting to find things available to him before he got hurt.

    But although play action and running the football can help the down field passing game, they canNOT really compensate for WRs who can’t get open or catch the ball. A sub-standard unit in the NFL is simply exposed no matter what. Although running Stacy helped, the fact is that our WRs never really threatened anyone, with the situation being made worse by a lousy backup QB. (OK, he led well, but he was really a lousy passer!)

    The most obvious case study of a lack of synergy was the home SEA game when Clemens could not take advantage of a rampant running game. But I would cite another game–Indy.

    Tavon went nuts against Indy. He did so BECAUSE they played man where other defenses had always squeezed him and us with zones. As soon as he got a match up he could exploit, he exploded. But he never showed that he could do much against squeezing zones. It makes sense–Tavon is the sort of guy who can beat other individuals badly. But against a zone, he needs space to work with. And even when we ran the ball, the limitations of our WRs and backup QB allowed teams to squeeze and squeeze and squeeze.

    Same thing is true, really, with Stacy. Stacy was heroic in grinding out yards against squeezing defenses. But he had very little room to work with. If he runs the ball against defenses stressed by Sam, Brian, and Kenny, we may be surprised at how many runs he breaks off at more than a dozen yards!

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #3267
    zn
    Moderator

    Well I don;t know what rewind or the coach’s 22 showed. I just have the old “guy on the sofa with a beverage scaring the poor dog by yelling at the tv” view of things. But, from that kind of first impressions level, it seemed to me right off that Bailey has “it.” I don’t know his ceiling, I am not so clear on his style, but he plays with the kind of confident aggressiveness (plus hands) that just seems to me only belong to good players.

    Do you see the same stuff in Bailey? Granted, Clemens was the qb. (Though to be fair Clemens could do well with 9-12 yard lasers).

    #3268
    rfl
    Participant

    I forget, were you there for the draft thread? One of the themes early in the day as the different picks got turned in was “Donald’s still there…Donald might still be there…hey maybe Donald will be there…”

    Quinn fell too.

    Now and then some unexpected good luck surfaces for these Rams.

    Yeah, I was there. People were talking about Donald and, not being a draftnik, I was asking who he was.

    Quinn was a huge break. But if I recall, before the fact he seemed like one of many promising, athletic DE types who was no sure thing. And, indeed, it took him a couple years to grow into greatness.

    Donald is perhaps the rarest kind of prospect. A guy at a tough position who comes in ready to be a stud.

    Now, I didn’t know about him, and he didn’t generate a lot of hype. Well, that doesn’t mean much.

    But the minute I watched his highlight reel, I thought, Oh, My God, what am I seeing here? You just do NOT see college DTs who play with that level of talent AND developed, mature skill. I don’t think I ever have. Sapp looked damn good in college, if I recall. But I think this level of penetrating talent along with discipline and productivity, the ability to blow up the run game as well as get to the passer … he’s freaking off the charts NOW!

    And I tell you what, I am really puzzled as to why all the hype was on Clowney with this guy sitting there in the draft. And I am bewildered by all those GMs passing on him. Other than QB, I think a DT who can do what he appears to be able to do is perhaps the rarest and most valuable asset in FB.

    They said Clowney was a once in a decade type player. Well, recognizing that he hasn’t faced other teams yet even in pre-season, Donald seems to be a once in 3 decades DT. And he plays next to Quin! Lord, this is going to be fun!

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #3269
    zn
    Moderator

    But the minute I watched his highlight reel, I thought, Oh, My God, what am I seeing here? You just do NOT see college DTs who play with that level of talent AND developed, mature skill

    Now I remember that. You were asking the draftniks if he was good as advertized, then later in response to a highlight vid you said the same thing you say here–“my goodness this guy is doing it play after play.” Farr himself btw said that when he saw Donald, he recognized that the kid had (near direct quote) “the hands technique of a 3rd year pro.” That’s something coming from Farr, who of course was an undersized penetrating DT who took his game to the next level when he sought out training on how to use his hands. Farr is in awe of Donald.

    I would love to have seen the Rams draft room when they realized Donald was falling to them.

    #3271
    rfl
    Participant

    I have a lot of confidence in Bailey. It’s a principle thing. He does what I value in WRs. He runs routes, gets open, and catches the ball. I think that’s rare and I think it’s more valuable than measurables on guys who really don’t know how to get open or catch the ball.

    Now, I must say that, by the time Bailey started catching passes, I was not necessarily studying the ReWind assiduously. It was the end of a long, bitterly disappointing season, and I didn’t have a lot of heart for doing more than watching the games.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #3272
    rfl
    Participant

    Farr himself btw said that when he saw Donald, he recognized that the kid had (near direct quote) “the hands technique of a 3rd year pro.” That’s something coming from Farr, who of course was an undersized penetrating DT who took his game to the next level when he sought on training on how to use his hands. Farr is in awe of Donald.

    Yeah, Farr is the perfect guy to comment on Donald’s game–very similar.

    And I have seen that quotation. Saying a rookie DT has the hand skills of a 3rd year pro is off the charts praise. I mean NOBODY gets comments like that. NOBODY!

    This is kind of what I am saying. It’s UNREAL in the sense that Donald is demonstrating skills that rookies simply do not ever display.

    I suppose that, if we HAD to look for the worm in the cocktail, we could say that Donald may not have nearly as much upside as most rookies. He has the skills that the rest learn as they get better.

    But, still, what I see and project is almost certainly to be damned effective even if it remains level for a decade.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #3296
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    what do people think of the new rule changes and the impact that will have on tavon?

    i figure the new rule changes WILL help austin. with dbs not allowed to be as physical it should help a jitterbug type like tavon.

    i also believe bailey is the guy to step. it’ll be austin and bailey. with quick or britt making a very effective third wr.

    i also think that brockers dominates. it won’t just be donald. he’s the new guy, and understandably, people are excited. but brockers has come in the best shape of his life. he didn’t come in with the technical proficiency that donald does. but people forget. brockers is only 6 months older than donald. he came in as a young raw physical specimen. i fully expect him to have a breakout year. and then combined with donald, this dline should be frightening.

    #3310
    cgsuddeath
    Participant

    Regardless of this storie,LaCanfora is a piece of trash reporter that is no more than a gossip columnist ala Rona Barrett.

    #3312
    zn
    Moderator

    Regardless of this storie,LaCanfora is a piece of trash reporter that is no more than a gossip columnist ala Rona Barrett.

    He is the only one saying Bradford might not be in their plans:

    The Rams did oodles of work on quarterbacks in the 2014 draft, and their intrigue regarding Johnny Manziel was very real. Had Johnny Football fallen a little bit deeper I wouldn’t have been surprised if the Rams traded back into the first round to grab him.

    #3313
    cgsuddeath
    Participant

    My point exactly.This is the same clown that was saying the Rams were not going to resign him by any means possible.LaCanfora=useless gossip columnist.

    #3317
    zn
    Moderator

    My point exactly.This is the same clown that was saying the Rams were not going to resign him by any means possible.LaCanfora=useless gossip columnist.

    Thomas on 920 was directly asked about LaConfora’s report that Bradford didn’t look entirely back yet, and Thomas openly disagreed with that.

    That’s here. The 2nd Thomas podcast in this post. He discusses LaConfora’s version of things at 10:50 in.

    http://theramshuddle.com/topic/920101-audio-demoff-witherspoon-who-replaces-softli-wagoner/

    #3332
    zn
    Moderator

    what do people think of the new rule changes and the impact that will have on tavon?

    i figure the new rule changes WILL help austin. with dbs not allowed to be as physical it should help a jitterbug type like tavon.

    i also believe bailey is the guy to step. it’ll be austin and bailey. with quick or britt making a very effective third wr.

    i also think that brockers dominates. it won’t just be donald. he’s the new guy, and understandably, people are excited. but brockers has come in the best shape of his life. he didn’t come in with the technical proficiency that donald does. but people forget. brockers is only 6 months older than donald. he came in as a young raw physical specimen. i fully expect him to have a breakout year. and then combined with donald, this dline should be frightening.

    I am not sure about the impact of those rules on Tavon, because the thing with him was not being held, it was keeping guys over him in zones and not giving him space. BUT if other WRs are running free, then, the defense has to choose between stacking up on Austin and paying attention to those other guys.

    You could be right about Brockers. Seems to me, when you combine Brockers, Waufle, and Wms, it’s legit to expect something.

    .

    #3348
    rfl
    Participant

    Brief point on Brockers.

    I think the problem with his reputation is that people want him to be an impact DT making big plays.

    What they forget is the value of a space-eating DT who occupies double teams, clogs the running lanes, and gets some pressure upfield WITHOUT really having the speed to get actual sacks. Those guys are very, very valuable even if they never make the splash plays.

    I am not necessarily expecting Brockers to have a breakout year. He may have one, but I don’t see much reason to expect it or to demand it.

    What I am excited about is the combination he will form with Donald. Donald is the penetrator who will make big plays. Brockers is the steady partner who will provide a base stability and relentless upfield pressure. Together, they will be the ideal combination. And Brockers will be able to play a crucial role brilliantly.

    Unfortunately, many may fail to recognize the value of Brocker’s part of the equation and may continue to complain about him not getting sacks and dramatic tackles for losses.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #3349
    zn
    Moderator

    Brief point on Brockers.

    I think the problem with his reputation is that people want him to be an impact DT making big plays.

    What they forget is the value of a space-eating DT who occupies double teams, clogs the running lanes, and gets some pressure upfield WITHOUT really having the speed to get actual sacks. Those guys are very, very valuable even if they never make the splash plays.

    I am not necessarily expecting Brockers to have a breakout year. He may have one, but I don’t see much reason to expect it or to demand it.

    What I am excited about is the combination he will form with Donald. Donald is the penetrator who will make big plays. Brockers is the steady partner who will provide a base stability and relentless upfield pressure. Together, they will be the ideal combination. And Brockers will be able to play a crucial role brilliantly.

    Unfortunately, many may fail to recognize the value of Brocker’s part of the equation and may continue to complain about him not getting sacks and dramatic tackles for losses.

    Can you believe we’re talking about a Rams DL like this.

    #3363
    Maddy
    Participant

    I think the hesitancy of other GMs to draft Donald was due to his relatively small size. I recall one quote by an NFL personnel guy, which I can only paraphrase as: who in the NFL is he going to overpower? Apparently there was some question as to whether his college game would play at the pro level. I guess we’ll see. I’m optimistic. We have actual greatness on our Dline already, and we have some quality depth as well, and with a variety of strong qualities between them. Excellence, depth, and utility.

    #3365
    wv
    Participant

    And I tell you what, I am really puzzled as to why all the hype was on Clowney with this guy sitting there in the draft. And I am bewildered by all those GMs passing on him. Other than QB, I think a DT who can do what he appears to be able to do is perhaps the rarest and most valuable asset in FB.

    They said Clowney was a once in a decade type player. Well, recognizing that he hasn’t faced other teams yet even in pre-season, Donald seems to be a once in 3 decades DT. And he plays next to Quin! Lord, this is going to be fun!

    The only criticism i’ve seen aimed at Donald is about his size.
    One scout said he was just too small and wouldnt be able
    to beat Pro OLinemen. I dont agree, but thats one criticism
    thats out there.

    In a way, he didnt really ‘drop’ that far.
    I mean 13 is not exactly the ninth circle of Hell
    you know. Its still a pretty high spot.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by wv.
    #3368
    zn
    Moderator

    I think the hesitancy of other GMs to draft Donald was due to his relatively small size. I recall one quote by an NFL personnel guy, which I can only paraphrase as: who in the NFL is he going to overpower?

    Yeah it’s true that with the Rams, he fits in and plays a role on an established DL. He’s like the 5th or even 6th guy. But a team would probably be hesitant to build their line around him.

    #3372
    Dak
    Participant

    Yup. Size. That’s why Donald was around for the Rams. But, D’Marco says that his arms are really long for his body size. He has just about everything you need, just not all of the measurables. I thought he looked damn good, so I was happy to see him “fall” to 13. Actually, early on, the mocks had him lower in the 1st round.

    #3384
    zn
    Moderator

    Yup. Size. That’s why Donald was around for the Rams. But, D’Marco says that his arms are really long for his body size. He has just about everything you need, just not all of the measurables. I thought he looked damn good, so I was happy to see him “fall” to 13. Actually, early on, the mocks had him lower in the 1st round.

    He’s also strong for his size too, right? (Plus very advanced in technique, as many have said here already).

    I think he is more and more being regarded as a steal.

    It really is possible he ends up being the best pick in this draft.

    #3411
    Herzog
    Participant

    I don’t even know what to say after reading an article like that. I’m so excited that it has turned into nervousness and nausea. But in a good way…..

    can’t wait!!

    #3417
    rfl
    Participant

    Oh, you guys are clearly correct. The size issue.

    But see I don’t get that. I really don’t get why knowledgeable NFL guys would say what Maddy reports hearing:

    I recall one quote by an NFL personnel guy, which I can only paraphrase as: who in the NFL is he going to overpower?

    (Obviously, my criticism here is not directed at Maddy!)

    Football is about size/power and about speed/quickness. The game has always seen a spectrum stretching from one to the other. Greatness always requires both, but the balance can tip either way.

    Some of you guys know that I played NAIA college ball in the ’70s. We had a nose tackle who played at a weight maybe 60 pounds less than the average weight of DTs in our league. He was all conference and nearly unblockable. He was also a superb wrestler, and he shot gaps so fast you couldn’t hit him. OL power could not negate his speed and quickness because the bigger, stronger guys couldn’t get good contact with him. He was also immensely strong for his size. And he had that wrestler’s ability to get the OL off balance and project strength from a powerful position.

    Well, Fred was a long, long way from the NFL level. But his formula for excellence is fundamental to football tradition. I can’t count the times when I would watch college games in which the power of, say, Tom Osborne’s Nebraska teams was negated by the speed of penetrating, fast defenders. Of course, the NFL isn’t college, and the point is that most NFL players are both strong and quick. But the league has always had smaller DTs who throve through penetration rather than overpowering. Our own D’marco Farr, who played about 280, is a great example.

    OK, what the hell do I know, right?

    But when I looked at that highlights reel of AD’s, I felt I was SEEING exactly what interior DLs need but which they so rarely find: a formula for consistent penetration and THEN the ability to change course when in the backfield to adapt to the play and track backs down with closing speed. It seems obvious and visible to me that he has what Fred had at our level–a strong wrestler’s ability to get his strength into positions that put the OL out of balance, reaching without power to deal with a powerful, moving body bending and hand-fighting into a powerful position. I mean, I can just SEE the moves that will at the very least draw lots of holding flags from slow, out of balance OL trying to make up with their hands for being unbalanced and late.

    “Who in the NFL is he going to overpower?”

    Well, this guy won’t need to overpower anyone head up. He will, however, overpower just about everyone by penetrating to a position of power which negates their size and strength. I can’t believe NFL scouts and FO guys didn’t see that.

    But I ain’t complaining! He’s a Ram, and I love it!

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #3419
    Maddy
    Participant

    (Obviously, my criticism here is not directed at Maddy!)

    You sayin’ I can’t take criticism?

    #3424
    wv
    Participant

    rfl wrote:
    (Obviously, my criticism here is not directed at Maddy!)

    You sayin’ I can’t take criticism?

    Yup. I saw it too, Maddy.
    He didn’t criticize you — flat out,
    chose not to.

    Are you gonna take that from him?

    w
    v
    “We all have it com’in kid”
    Unforgiven

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by wv.
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