Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Anti-Trump protests ARE peaceful and organic.
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November 12, 2016 at 12:56 pm #57933nittany ramModerator
“They’re shipping in anarchists, honey!!”
Again, bullshit.
Yeah, that never made any logical sense. First of all, who is the ‘they’? Who do they think is financing the shipping of protesters around the country for the sole purpose of committing violent acts?
The DNC? George Soros? Why? What would it accomplish? It won’t change who the president elect is so what’s the point?
November 12, 2016 at 1:31 pm #57937znModerator“They’re shipping in anarchists, honey!!”
Again, bullshit.
Yeah, that never made any logical sense. First of all, who is the ‘they’? Who do they think is financing the shipping of protesters around the country for the sole purpose of committing violent acts?
The DNC? George Soros? Why? What would it accomplish? It won’t change who the president elect is so what’s the point?
A lot of this is simple.
If you have people detained at a protest and they have to produce IDs and some of them are out of state, all you have to do is ask one simple easy question.
How close was the protest to a major university or college.
Shrug.
.
November 12, 2016 at 1:57 pm #57941wvParticipantNo what I meant was, I need your help keeping X in check.
I’ll try to rein it in a little out of respect for your rules.
No what I meant was, I need your help keeping BT in check.
I am a reformed basher myself
No what I meant was, I need your help keeping zn in check.
..
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R.E.L.A.X.
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Listen…everyone has a story. Practice strategies for listening interactively and following up on what the speaker has said.
Accentuate the positive and reverse our psychological autopilot that causes us to stereotype, blame and focus on the negative.
Examine your goals and rephrase. What is the purpose of the conversation? Are cultural differences in speech styles causing roadblocks to effective communication? This critical chapter provides practical strategies for peaceful conversations when criticizing others and offers practice in flipping negative self-talk.
http://gailnemetzrobinson.com/featured/peacefulconversationsNovember 12, 2016 at 6:28 pm #57984znModeratorListen…everyone has a story.
Listen to what? I mean it’s not like everyone has a story.
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Whatever happened to good old fashioned board wars.
November 12, 2016 at 9:04 pm #58008— X —ParticipantYou have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr SeussNovember 13, 2016 at 12:07 pm #58092— X —ParticipantNot sure how organic these things are, and they’re becoming increasingly less peaceful.
Another ad for paid Trump protesters. This is a fake astroturf movement. pic.twitter.com/uyyBkSX7xN
— Paul Joseph Watson (@PrisonPlanet) November 13, 2016
You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr SeussNovember 13, 2016 at 12:25 pm #58102Billy_TParticipantNot sure how organic these things are, and they’re becoming increasingly less peaceful.
— Paul Joseph Watson (@PrisonPlanet) November 13, 2016
X,
Come on. He’s an editor for infowars. Alex Jones is his boss. Deeply paranoid far-right fringe is his internal geography, and you shouldn’t believe a word he or anyone from that site EVER says.
You think the New York Times is “biased”? Alex “Sandy Hook was a false flag operation” Jones is beyond anything the NYTimes could ever dream of being, when it comes to rabidly partisan. And I personally don’t view the Times that way. But no matter.
IMO, Dude, you need to raise your skepticism meter up to eleven whenever you see this kind of thing, and check sources. It makes no sense to try to counter the MSM’s “bias” with whacked out, fringe, tin-foil hat folks on the far right.
November 13, 2016 at 12:28 pm #58106bnwBlockedReminds me of the wikileaks email that said it was Killory’s idea to send people dressed as Donald Duck to Trump rallies to foment violence.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
November 13, 2016 at 12:35 pm #58108— X —ParticipantX,
Come on. He’s an editor for infowars. Alex Jones is his boss. Deeply paranoid far-right fringe is his internal geography, and you shouldn’t believe a word he or anyone from that site EVER says.
It was a cellphone screen cap that got passed around.
Hell, *I’d* protest Trump for a day if it got me $350.00.
Fresh air, sunshine, three fiddy. Sign me up.You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr SeussNovember 13, 2016 at 12:47 pm #58113Billy_TParticipantX,
Come on. He’s an editor for infowars. Alex Jones is his boss. Deeply paranoid far-right fringe is his internal geography, and you shouldn’t believe a word he or anyone from that site EVER says.
It was a cellphone screen cap that got passed around.
Hell, *I’d* protest Trump for a day if it got me $350.00.
Fresh air, sunshine, three fiddy. Sign me up.First off, you don’t know who created that ad — or any results from it. America has a long, long history of trumping up shit like that — to make dissidents look bad. As in, created BY corporations, governments, the establishment to crush dissent.
Second, it’s ONE ad. I really enjoyed many of your posts, like Pink Floyd/Jersey girl, and wanted to compliment you on your writing as well . . . but I’m seeing another tendency at work:
You do a lot of nutpicking, searching for one-off instances to somehow “prove” your points, as if lone, isolated examples, that may or may not be true, can do that.
Yesterday, I said I’d rein myself in. And I’m going to. But it sure would make it a hell of a lot easier if everyone on this board — again, that includes me — is far more circumspect in what we post, our sources, our links.
We all need to contribute more light and far less heat. Grabbing nutbag twitter feeds or using deeply partisan sources won’t do that. Again, that means all of us.
November 13, 2016 at 12:50 pm #58115— X —ParticipantIMO, Dude, you need to raise your skepticism meter up to eleven whenever you see this kind of thing, and check sources. It makes no sense to try to counter the MSM’s “bias” with whacked out, fringe, tin-foil hat folks on the far right.
lol. It was a real Craigslist ad, and people screencapped it.
It’s not outside the realm of possibility that someone with tons of disposable income (Soros, maybe?) would orchestrate an inorganic protest in order to keep the movement going. It’s not a big deal, and it’s probably isolated, but it’s worth noting. I don’t see the benefit of sticking to the “these are nothing but organic and peaceful protests” narrative if there are instances where it isn’t. I mean, you don’t want your news spoon-fed to you, do you?
You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr SeussNovember 13, 2016 at 12:55 pm #58116— X —ParticipantAnd here’s another ad from 24 days ago that’s still active.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/npo/5837556143.html
You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr SeussNovember 13, 2016 at 1:07 pm #58118Billy_TParticipantIMO, Dude, you need to raise your skepticism meter up to eleven whenever you see this kind of thing, and check sources. It makes no sense to try to counter the MSM’s “bias” with whacked out, fringe, tin-foil hat folks on the far right.
lol. It was a real Craigslist ad, and people screencapped it.
It’s not outside the realm of possibility that someone with tons of disposable income (Soros, maybe?) would orchestrate an inorganic protest in order to keep the movement going. It’s not a big deal, and it’s probably isolated, but it’s worth noting. I don’t see the benefit of sticking to the “these are nothing but organic and peaceful protests” narrative if there are instances where it isn’t. I mean, you don’t want your news spoon-fed to you, do you?
X,
I see fake news being spoon fed to Trump followers, and they’re eating it up.
Why post something like that, when you have no idea who created it, no idea if anyone responded to it, and no idea if it’s even real?
You don’t think we have the technology to create what looks like “screen-captures,” or change the ones we do ourselves? I did Internet and computer tech support for fifteen years, and got a communications degree before that — and Art before that one. It’s easy. Extremely easy to manipulate images anyway you want.
Again, I think you need to rev up that skepticism meter for this kind of thing at LEAST as high as you have it set for the NYT. At least.
November 13, 2016 at 1:11 pm #58119Billy_TParticipantAnd here’s another ad from 24 days ago that’s still active.
And what does that have to do with the anti-Trump demonstrations? It was pre-election, right? And you don’t think you can find GOP ads, pre-election, just like that?
Come on, X.
And on that note, I’m outta here to watch some football.
November 13, 2016 at 1:12 pm #58120— X —ParticipantX,
I see fake news being spoon fed to Trump followers, and they’re eating it up.
Why post something like that, when you have no idea who created it, no idea if anyone responded to it, and no idea if it’s even real?
Look up a coupla posts and see an actual craigslist ad.
With organization name.
with contact info.
with phone #.You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr SeussNovember 13, 2016 at 4:19 pm #58137MackeyserModeratorPosted this on Facebook. The formatting is shyte because… well, I won’t go into my rant on the forum software…again. I’m happy for the place, leaky roof and all. Has that “rebel HQ on Hoth” feel. Just kidding. Kinda. Anyway, posted this on Facebook. I’ll try to clean up some of the formatting, but if anything is unclear or totally weird, lemme know. Content-wise, it is what it is. The preamble is unnecessary for you all, but I copied it en toto.
Just got back from the Trump Protest in Sarasota and wanted to share some thoughts.
A primer to my posts to those that don’t know me (normally I post in forums):
1) my posts are long. If that’s not okay. Don’t read, but don’t complain about the length. I hate bumper sticker sloganeering. I want to get into the weeds on issues, so I take the time and space to articulate my thoughts.
2) I am very thoughtful and mindful. I don’t come by these thoughts cavalierly, nor are they unsupported by facts, evidence, logic, reason and substantive deliberation.
3) I want to be part of a conversation. Don’t mistake my stridency for authority. If I’m wrong, I’ll be the first to admit it. What I have is enthusiasm, not ego.
4) What governs my drive is principle, not politics, partisanship or personal gain. I won’t take the time or space to articulate every instance where I’ve lived my principles.
I dunno how this foray into social media will go, but… here goes.
So… just got back from the protest. I have some thoughts.
Firstly, I’m always heartened when individuals exercise their rights under the Constitution, especially the First Amendment. To me that is key to fulfilling the promise of the Declaration of Independence which was the preamble to our democracy and ultimately a promise of our principle and promise, which states that: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. So to see people across this land exercise their rights…and be ABLE to do so. Well, I was heartened.
Secondly, based on the appointments, it’s clear that Pence is setting himself up to be the next Dick Cheney. Virtually every appointment looks to be a hard right Conservative and many are actually against much of what Trump ran on. Many people opposed Bush not realizing they were really fighting Cheney. Well… when people think they’re fighting Trump, they’re really going to be fighting Pence and the hard right. We haven’t seen the kind of fight we’re going to need since the 60s. NOT KIDDING. We are going to need MILLIONS in the streets on a weekly basis to truly drive the change that must happen.
Thirdly, I’m sorry that this didn’t happen sooner. Yes, Bernie had YUGE crowds, but we knew in freakin’ MAY after that disgrace of a primary season that the DNC had no faith in democracy. At least the Republicans had faith in democracy. They were willing to let their party burn to the ground, but…they let the people who showed up at caucuses and primaries decide WITHOUT anyone at RNC HQ deciding the outcome. Contrast that with the DNC essentially trying to fix the outcome for Clinton even as solid data came in that Hillary looked weak against Trump, but Trump would get roflstomped by Sanders. Heck, Alan Grayson did a poll two days after the Election and Bernie wouldn’t have just won… Bernie would have won TEXAS!!! Think about that. So while we’re fighting, we have to ALWAYS remember that half measures often count for nothing at all. Buh-bye corporate sell-out Dems.
Fourthly, I’m mixed, though I pass for white. I’m a Service-Connected Disabled Vet. I could sit back and hope to protect my trans child under my umbrella of supposed “protection” or privilege or whatever. But actually…I can’t. Because…until, we’re all free, NONE OF US IS FREE. And that’s just not abstract. Hey Bush and Obama fans. Here’s a reason why those of us on principle hated Patriot Act. Suspension of Habeas Corpus for one. And the killing of the Dallas shooter was the first use of a drone (technically a bomb bot) against a US citizen on US soil. How long before THAT line is crossed by the DOJ, NSA, FBI, CIA or other Federal, State and Local agencies under President Trump. And how long before we see a return of Extraordinary Rendition, Torture, Black Sites and the like. Think that’s crazy? Did anyone not see what the Boston PD looked like after the Boston Marathon bombing? They looked better equipped than our troops were during the Surge in Iraq.
The culture wars are just the beginning. Couple that with authoritarians who have access to the least accountable, most powerful and secretive intelligence apparatus on the planet and…well, there is serious cause for concern. We MUST support our Constitution. ALL of our freedom depends on it.
Lastly, in many ways the fog has been lifted. In ways great and small, the racists, corporatists, the political manipulators… all have been exposed. And all, but the racists prefer the fog of obfuscation and misdirection. The clarity of this moment must be recognized so that people of conscience can truly see what is happening and act accordingly (and no, signing an online petition isn’t “action”).
In the coming days, there will be distraction, diversion, dismissal and derision. That cannot be allowed to stand. Clarity and focus must be maintained.I joined the US Navy because I wanted to continue a family tradition of service, to support and defend the Constitution, to serve my country….all of it.
I still want every last person in this country to be able to live their truth. I want part of that truth to be what is enshrined in our Declaration of Independence…the self-evident truth that as an American…as a human being… that all are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
November 13, 2016 at 4:24 pm #58140znModeratorAt least the Republicans had faith in democracy. They were willing to let their party burn to the ground, but…they let the people who showed up at caucuses and primaries decide WITHOUT anyone at RNC HQ deciding the outcome.
Good post Mack. More later. First, just a quick drive-by.
On the Reps not trying to fix things?
That we KNOW OF.
There were no wiki-leaks on the reps.
And I think the odds of them not playing party games are slim to none.
As you said they did maneuver to get Pence in charge of the appointments so where exactly did they play it free and fair?
…
November 13, 2016 at 4:29 pm #58141bnwBlockedSo why did you attend a protest against Trump? A trans child? What has Trump ever done that would make you think you need to “protect” your child from him?
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
November 13, 2016 at 4:31 pm #58142wvParticipantSecondly, based on the appointments, it’s clear that Pence is setting himself up to be the next Dick Cheney. Virtually every appointment looks to be a hard right Conservative and many are actually against much of what Trump ran on.
—————-
Well just so you know, Pence-Trump just appointed Lord Voldemort
to be the Secretary of Doom.I was hoping it would be Sauron, but the hardliners must
have persuaded Trump to go with Voldemort.…yeah its bad. I remember when so many Dem-libs were all a-flutter over newly elected Obama. And i kept saying look at who contributed to his campaign and look at who he CHOSE to be part of his cabinet. It was all right there.
Same with Trump. He is not what his fans think he is. Look at his cabinet CHOICES. You dont need to know anything else. Its right there. Aint no ‘outsiders’ on the cabinet are there 🙂
w
vNovember 13, 2016 at 4:37 pm #58145Billy_TParticipantAt least the Republicans had faith in democracy. They were willing to let their party burn to the ground, but…they let the people who showed up at caucuses and primaries decide WITHOUT anyone at RNC HQ deciding the outcome.
Good post Mack. More later. First, just a quick drive-by.
On the Reps not trying to fix things?
That we KNOW OF.
There were no wiki-leaks on the reps.
And I think the odds of them not playing party games are slim to none.
As you said they did maneuver to get Pence in charge of the appointments so where exactly did they play it free and fair?
…
I was thinking the same thing after reading Mac’s very good post.
If the GOP had faith in democracy, they wouldn’t have spent so much time — and decades now — trying to suppress the vote by any means necessary. Election after election, they’ve done that, by hook or crook, via slashing chances for early voting, to closing thousands of polling places in, big surprise, likely Democratic areas, to making it as difficult as possible for the poor to organize, register voters and vote themselves.
I see absolutely zero trust in our democracy from the Republicans.
And what do we call it when they block Obama from filling Scalia’s place on the Court? First they tell us that “the people should speak” by way of the next election, even though presidents are elected for four-year terms, not three. Then they changed their minds again when they thought Clinton would win. Then it was all, “We’re going to block ALL of her nominations!” Now, because Trump won the EVs, it’s “The people have spoken! This is a historical win!!” Even though it’s beginning to look like HRC will win the popular vote by several million.
Only 56% of the electorate chose to vote, and a hell of a lot of that has to do with how hard the GOP has made it to do just that. High negatives for both candidates drove a lot of that as well, of course. They were both despised by large numbers of Americans. But if the GOP really wants to claim they support our democracy, they’ll do whatever they can to make it safe, easy and ultra-convenient for everyone to do just that.
One of the best ways? Everyone should be automatically registered at age 18. Nothing to sign. You’re just automatically on the voting rolls. Period. We move the day to a Saturday, or make it a national holiday on whatever day of the week.
The GOP will never, ever go for that, because they know if every registered voter turns up, they lose the vast majority of national elections.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Billy_T.
November 13, 2016 at 4:47 pm #58149Billy_TParticipantSo why did you attend a protest against Trump? A trans child? What has Trump ever done that would make you think you need to “protect” your child from him?
He made Pence his VP, for starters, and the GOP base is filled with bigots, especially of the right-wing Christian fundie kind.
Trump ran on hate, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and I couldn’t care less if you see that, bnw. It’s just fact. I also couldn’t care less if you say “PC is over!!” cuz it has nothing to do with PC. It has everything to do with Trump normalizing and unleashing a wave of right-wing bigotry. Ironically, he’s actually made it “PC” to do just that for his supporters, and we’re seeing that even in our elementary schools.
And like the Dixie Chicks sang, millions of us are just not ready to make nice. Me, personally? That’s a never.
November 13, 2016 at 4:51 pm #58151Billy_TParticipantVery good scholarly article about how racism really was a huge part of Trump support:
Sean McElwee is generally very good. Strong, measured, calm here.
November 13, 2016 at 4:52 pm #58152Billy_TParticipantJust posting the setup for the article and the studies he uses. I’ll leave it up anyone who cares to read the rest.
The American National Elections Study (ANES) pilot survey offers a unique opportunity to study Trump voters, since it was completed in January 2016, long before Trump had definitively won the Republican nomination. For this analysis, I examined a single question: “How likely is it that many whites are unable to find a job because employers are hiring minorities instead?” Respondents could answer, “extremely likely,” “very likely,” “moderately likely,” “a little likely” and “not at all likely.” The question was only asked of whites, and is suggestive of the way that economic anxiety and racism are deeply intertwined. To determine Trump support, I used a “feeling thermometer,” which asks respondents to place their feelings about Donald Trump on a scale from 0 (coldest) to 100 (warmest).
November 13, 2016 at 4:55 pm #58154Billy_TParticipantAnd on that note, I think I’m going to take a break from online forums, here, elsewhere, everywhere.
Need to focus on other things, especially my books.
Take care, everyone. I wish you all great good fortune, peace, love and happiness and a lot more Rams’ victories!!
;>)
November 13, 2016 at 5:01 pm #58158bnwBlockedThanks Billy and good luck with your writing.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
November 13, 2016 at 7:25 pm #58206MackeyserModerator1) I don’t think the GOP has faith in democracy when it comes to voting rights, gerrymandering, voter suppression, voter disenfranchisement, or enacting popular policy. That wasn’t what I said. I specifically restricted my remarks to the primary process. And when it came to the primary process, they really DID let the voters decide. I mean, how many times did folks think Reince Priebus had lost his mind by not “doing something” to derail Trump? Instead, he didn’t alter the schedule, allowed for a LOT of debates, gave every candidate plenty of room to have a forum to reach potential voters and they chose Trump. There is NO DOUBT that if the DNC had played it as neutral as the RNC had, Bernie would have won the Primary and the election.
2) As to why my trans child has reason to be afraid? Okay. Here’s where I try to stay calm. I realize that YOU may not feel antipathy for trans/gay/lesbian people or people of color. HOWEVER, just in the few days since the election, the level of actual violence against the LGBTQ+ community has SKYROCKETED. Now… if you don’t have any exposure to that community, you probably wouldn’t know about it because other than a few stories, much of it isn’t widely reported. But, and I say this as someone who’s learning… you really have no idea how bad it’s already gotten. The pictures are already STREAMING in. One easy example is a guy was just having a drink at a bar. Another guy walks up, smashes a bottle in his face and yells, “FAG”.
The level of this antipathy has gone bonkers just since the election. Now, is the media covering all of these stories? HELL NO. You think that sellout, soulless son of a bitch Phil Griffin at MSNBC will allocate coverage? Of course not. The only coherent person on CNN is Van Jones. The rest of that crew makes the View seem like the Mt Rushmore of journalism. And it’s not like FoxNews is gonna be on the vanguard of LGBTQ+ coverage.
So, the truth is that LGBTQ+ have REAL reasons to fear in some cases to be violently attacked for no damn reason and in some cases to be killed…and that’s real. Just because our sellout corporate media that was complicit in electing Trump won’t cover the fallout of his appeal to the worst elements of society is what it is.
I’m fine with critiquing white liberals who say nonsensical things like “electing Trump is the worst thing this country has ever done”. Umm…no.
But I live in a conservative county in Central Florida… and I don’t just THINK that things have changed. I KNOW they have. People proudly flew confederate flags and shouted FAG and talked racist/homophobic/xenophobic nonsense BEFORE Trump. I’m not surprised it’s escalated to violence.
I’m only surprised at how quickly it’s escalated and to the degree.
The fear is real and based on real violence. I mean it took the Rodney King beating caught on video for white America to wrap their heads around the idea that sometimes cops just beat the shit out of black people for no reason. It took the Matthew Shepherd murder for straight America to see that it actually happens that gay people can be brutally murdered for just walking down a road…and literally nothing else.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
November 13, 2016 at 11:36 pm #58223bnwBlockedGays attacked for no good reason? There are countless knock out videos of black on white violence that never make the MSM with the exception of FOX News on occasion. That is what Obama has brought. Violence on the left is far more the norm than on the right. Flying the stars and bars isn’t uncommon in the South. Usually the stars and bars flies with the stars and stripes. You should know that living there and it isn’t a protest against a trans child. Why you fear Trump I cannot fathom.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
November 13, 2016 at 11:57 pm #58229znModeratorGays attacked for no good reason? There are countless knock out videos of black on white violence
How are those 2 things related?
?
November 14, 2016 at 12:11 am #58230InvaderRamModeratorGays attacked for no good reason? There are countless knock out videos of black on white violence
How are those 2 things related?
?
i think he’s saying that there are instances of whites being attacked for no good reason.
does it happen? i know of instances where that has happened.
i’m not saying i agree with him. i don’t think one means that the other is ok.
i can’t speak for what it is like growing up as a working class white man. i also can’t speak to how it is growing up as a gay man.
i just know that there are worldviews so different from one another, i have no idea how you come to any compromise.
i blame it on an increasing disparity in wealth distribution. eliminate that and you see some of these problems disappear. that’s what i suspect anyway. when your security is threatened people start blaming the others. out of fear or whatever. i know it’s not that simple but it’s part of the problem. i think the problems lie MOSTLY upstairs and not down here.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by InvaderRam.
November 14, 2016 at 12:44 am #58232znModeratorbnw: Gays attacked for no good reason? There are countless knock out videos of black on white violence
zn: How are those 2 things related?
?
i think he’s saying that there are instances of whites being attacked for no good reason
Yeah, that’s what he’s saying, but how is whites being attacked for no good reason related to gays being attacked for no good reason?
Most of the gays attacked would BE white.
And sexuality is not race.
It purports to offer a “turn the tables” symmetry, but there’s no symmetry and the tables didn’t turn.
If I said women often suffer harassment at work, is it much of a response to say yeah but latinos sometimes get unfairly ticketed for speeding?
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