Activists must stop being activists now

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  • #120477
    waterfield
    Participant

    if we have any hope to defeating Trump. We can always march in protest after the election.

    Column: These Black activists could be pawns in Trump’s evil reelection plan. They don’t care

    President Trump tours Kenosha, Wis., in the aftermath of protests against the police shooting of Jacob Blake in August.
    President Trump tours a block in Kenosha, Wis., that was damaged during protests over the police shooting of Jacob Blake in August.(Evan Vucci / Associated Press)
    By ERIKA D. SMITHCOLUMNIST
    SEP. 5, 20205 AM
    James Butler isn’t backing down.

    The 22-year-old founder of the upstart Black Future Project spent the summer protesting police brutality in downtown Los Angeles before moving on to get arrested on allegations of disrupting the tranquility of residents in Beverly Hills.

    He has heard all about President Trump’s recent attempts to smear Black activists like himself as “anarchists” and “looters.” He knows that the stakes are high in this election, especially for Black people, and he’s aware that some suburban voters might actually buy Trump’s claims about Democrats being the enablers of “anti-American riots.”

    But he — like many activists in California — still isn’t backing down.

    “All of this rhetoric is an attempt to have these right-wing groups look at the Gen Z and millennial people who are predominantly hitting the streets and make us look like uneducated nuisances,” Butler told me by phone from Boston, where he’s planning yet another protest. “But we’re upset and angry, and we see the wrongdoings of the system and we are sick of it.”

    These are the kind of words that will surely give baby boomers and some of the Gen Xers in the Democratic Party an ulcer. People such as Willie Brown, former California Assembly speaker, former San Francisco mayor and confidant to Democratic vice presidential candidate Kamala Harris.

    He recently declared in the San Francisco Chronicle that “the biggest threat to a Democratic election sweep in November isn’t the Republican in the White House, but the demonstrators who are tearing up cities in the name of racial justice.”

    And then, as if on cue, Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden released an ad that begins with images of vehicles and buildings that were presumably set ablaze in some riot somewhere.

    “I want to make it absolutely clear,” Biden intones. “Rioting is not protesting. Looting is not protesting. And those who do it should be prosecuted.”

    It’s a message he echoed during a campaign stop in Kenosha, Wis., where a handful of city blocks have been ripped apart by protesters enraged over the gruesome and wholly unnecessary police shooting of Jacob Blake.

    “Protesting is protesting, my buddy John Lewis used to say. But none of it justifies looting, burning or anything else. So regardless how angry you are, if you loot or you burn, you should be held [as] accountable as someone who does anything else. Period,” Biden said. “It just cannot be tolerated, across the board.”

    Easy there, Joe.

    Allow me, for just a moment, to inject a few facts into all of this political fiction.

    According to a recent analysis from the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project, violence occurred at only about 7% of the thousands of protests that popped up across the country this summer after a Minneapolis cop kneeled on George Floyd’s neck.

    Put another way, the vast majority of people who took to the streets in support of Black lives did so peacefully and only a tiny fraction of those protests drew police intervention. And this is true despite what has happened in downtown Portland, Ore., and likely will happen again this weekend as that city reaches 100 consecutive nights of protests.

    Meanwhile, about 12% of the hundreds of counterprotests that have occurred this summer — many led by belligerent Trump supporters — have ended in violence, according to the analysis.

    “We’ve seen people in MAGA hats show up at our weekly protest,” said Melina Abdullah, co-founder of Black Lives Matter Los Angeles. “We’ve seen people come at us very violently on social media. We’ve had to ramp up our security protocols.”

    It’s no wonder then that activists aren’t exactly consumed with worry over whether Trump will use them to win reelection. Rather, they are fed up, as all of us should be.

    “How the hell did one minute we were talking about defund the police and killer cops, and now all of a sudden the whole narrative across the nation has been looting and rioters?” said Berry Accius, an activist with Voice of the Youth in Sacramento. “Why are we here? Let’s talk about that.”

    The reason, of course, is that the political reality — er, political fiction — of this situation seems complicated. I have enough friends living in the suburbs in the Midwest to believe that what the president is saying will, in fact, resonate with some voters. Especially those who haven’t ventured into “the city” for months and what they know of the protests is limited to what they see on TV and read on Facebook.

    But the real question is how much will it resonate? And so far, the answer seems to be not a whole lot.

    A new ABC News/Ipsos poll found that 59% of Americans said Biden would do a better job handling the protests, compared with about 39% who said the same about Trump. When it comes to handling racial discrimination, 64% said Biden would do a better job as opposed to nearly 34% for Trump. And on reducing violence in the country overall, Americans favored Biden over Trump, 59% to 39%

    All of which makes me wonder why Biden and Harris are giving so much air to Trump’s law-and-order narrative?

    Why, at a time when we learn of another Black man shot by police almost every week and when police unions are scuttling legislation in Sacramento to bring about criminal justice reform, make a big stink about being endorsed by law enforcement officials, as the Biden campaign did on Friday?

    Why even talk about protests that have been overwhelmingly peaceful?

    And why release ads promising to punish the very few who turn to vandalism and theft, instead of solely focusing on why they are out there at all? Didn’t we settle this back in May when everyone lost their mind over people stealing stuff out of a Target in the mayhem after Floyd died in Minneapolis?

    “Joe Biden is giving his own version of the ‘very fine people on both sides’ narrative,” Abdullah said. “He should take an unshakable stance on the side of those of us who are protesting police brutality and violence against white supremacist terrorism, but he hasn’t done that.”

    To be fair, the former vice president has called out Trump for inciting violence with his rhetoric and for refusing to denounce his supporters who have shown up at peaceful protests with guns and, in at least one case, killed people. The Biden campaign, with Harris at the forefront, also is pushing for police reform.

    One thing seems clear, though. If fretful Democrats were hoping that activists marching for Black lives would take a hint and take a break between now and election day, that’s not going to happen. Not in California anyway.

    “Nobody’s going to ever make me not protest,” Abdullah said. “The one way they can be sure that we’ll protest harder is to tell us we can’t.”

    Perhaps that’s the thinking behind one of the findings in the ABC News/Ipsos poll. When asked if what Biden has been saying is making the protests better, worse or having no effect one way or the other, about half said he hasn’t had much of an effect.

    “Hearing a Democrat say something like that, like the rioting is crossing the line? Well, killing Black people is also crossing the line,” Butler said. “What do you expect people to do?”

    #120478
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Biden is chasing Republican votes. He is not chasing left or certainly not progressive votes. This is not only his campaign strategy; it is and has been the DNC strategy. This means they NEED those votes and are terrified of losing that shaky suburban voter to Trump. They are digging in the same hole for votes.

    Like last time, the DNC is simply going to put it to the left like this: us or Trump. Take your pick.

    It is that simple.

    Now, I think condemning looting and rioting is a good thing. Of course most protestors are not doing that. They do not even support it. But if you equate the two things as one, it is a problem. And of course the media is more interested in covering violence than they are a peaceful march.

    But politically, Biden knows exactly who he has placed his bet on for the win and he will not lose sight of that.

    So if anything threatens that, he will speak out forcefully. If it somehow costs some votes on the left, so be it. His theme is competence vs. chaos. That is his framing of this election. Not left vs. right.

    He assumes the left will be there.

    He is reaching toward the right to pull him over the finish line.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #120479
    zn
    Moderator

    Now, I think condemning looting and rioting is a good thing. Of course most protestors are not doing that. They do not even support it. But if you equate the two things as one, it is a problem. And of course the media is more interested in covering violence than they are a peaceful march.

    Yeah it’s a distortion.

    from Over 90% of Black Lives Matter demonstrations this summer were peaceful, analysis shows

    link: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/police-protestors-conflicting-images/page/4/#post-120403

    An analysis by the nonprofit Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project identified more than 7,750 demonstrations across 2,400 cities between May 26 — the day after the death of George Floyd — and Aug. 22.

    The ACLED analysis also highlights the disproportionate police response to the protests, noting that one in 10 Black Lives Matter protests have been met with state-sanctioned intervention compared to 3% of all other demonstrations. Though police were there to keep the peace, the authors said militarized law enforcement presence actually stokes tensions.

    #120483
    wv
    Participant

    I share your concern W, but ‘activist’ covers a LOT of ground.

    Also, ‘activists’ are not going to stop anytime soon. Whether its Neo-Nazi activists or Antifa-activists or BLM-activists or whatever.

    If the polls are right, you and i can stop worry about the activists.

    #120491
    zn
    Moderator

    Yeah it’s a distortion.

    from Over 90% of Black Lives Matter demonstrations this summer were peaceful, analysis shows

    link: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/police-protestors-conflicting-images/page/4/#post-120403

    More on the same thing.

    93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds

    https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/?fbclid=IwAR2gZj04CZulLxQXZN9duxd2qEocQUQoUy77vncLKZwN1XySLJaZicdgusQ

    The vast majority of Black Lives Matter protests—more than 93%—have been peaceful, according to a new report published Thursday by a nonprofit that researches political violence and protests across the world.

    The Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED) analyzed more than 7,750 Black Lives Matter demonstrations in all 50 states and Washington D.C. that took place in the wake of George Floyd’s death between May 26 and August 22.

    Their report states that more than 2,400 locations reported peaceful protests, while fewer than 220 reported “violent demonstrations.” The authors define violent demonstrations as including “acts targeting other individuals, property, businesses, other rioting groups or armed actors.” Their definition includes anything from “fighting back against police” to vandalism, property destruction looting, road-blocking using barricades, burning tires or other materials. In cities where protests did turn violent—these demonstrations are “largely confined to specific blocks,” the report says.

    The ACLED report includes protests toppling statues of “colonial figures, slave owners and Confederate leaders” as violent incidents. “Since Floyd’s killing, there have been at least 38 incidents in which demonstrators have significantly damaged or torn down memorials around the country,” the report states.

    Still, many people continue to believe that Black Lives Matter protests are largely violent—contrary to the report’s findings. ACLED highlights a recent Morning Consult poll in which 42% of respondents believe “most protesters (associated with the BLM movement) are trying to incite violence or destroy property.” ACLED suggests this “disparity stems from political orientation and biased media framing… such as disproportionate coverage of violent demonstrations.”

    U.S.-based ACLED is funded by the State Department’s Bureau of Conflict and Stabilization Operations as well as foreign governments and other organizations, including the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the German Federal Foreign Office, the Tableau Foundation, the International Organization for Migration, and The University of Texas at Austin. It relied on data collection from the U.S. Crisis Monitor—a joint project led by ACLED and Princeton University’s Bridging Divides Initiative—that tracks and publishes real-time data on political violence and demonstrations in the U.S in order to “establish an evidence base from which to identify risks, hotspots and available resources to empower local communities in times of crisis.”

    ACLED also highlights a “violent government response,” in which authorities “use force more often than not” when they are present at protests and that they “disproportionately used force while intervening in demonstrations associated with the BLM movement, relative to other types of demonstrations.” The report also references “dozens of car-ramming attacks” on protesters by various individuals, some of whom have ties to hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan.

    ACLED warns in the report that the U.S. “is at heightened risk of political violence and instability going into the 2020 general election,” citing trends in mass shootings, violent hate crimes and police killings. The authors of the report say the Trump administration has exacerbated tensions caused by racial inequality and police brutality. President Donald Trump and high-ranking members of his administration have frequently generalized protesters as violent anarchists.

    #120498
    Zooey
    Participant

    #120499
    wv
    Participant

    =============
    I dunno.

    I think W is right to be concerned about it. ANY violence by the ‘protesters’ is gonna fit nicely into a rightwing frame of Dem-equals-soft-on-crime.

    Doesnt matter how big a pile of bullshit it is — Americans swallow shovels full of bull-shit everyday.

    Having said that, it is what it is. The protests are not gonna stop. The pieces are in play. The die is cast. The protesters have…um…crossed the Rubicon. The game is afoot.

    w
    v

    #120514
    waterfield
    Participant

    Nothing wrong with swimming in the ocean. Unless your swimming straight into the mouth of a Great White Shark. Trump loves and hopes the protests continue because he knows it works against Biden-no matter if 99.9% or the protesters are peaceful. A few weeks back my son-a huge Sanders supporter-picked up my grandson at a ski clinic on Mt. Hood. He then drove his family to Portland, a city he loved and had thoughts of moving there. He could not get out of Portland any faster as he said “Dad, I’ve never seen a city is such chaos”. Buildings were on fire and every where he turned there was scary violence.” So from his personal experience I have no reason to believe the protests were “peaceful”. Maybe other cities and towns are different but not so in Portland. When I talk to Trump supports more than one will say “look at what’s happening in Portland. That’s what will happen in every city if Biden is elected.

    My personal opinion is that it is better to win first and then do what’s right (i.e. protest) That is the only way the goal of protests can ever hope to be accomplished. First comes the power and then comes the concrete action. Scaring voters that black and brown gangs are coming to destroy everything you care and love does work ! Lets not fumble the ball right into Trump’s hands.

    As every trial lawyer knows it’s not about the “truth” or the “facts”-it’s simply about “perception”. Who is in the right-that’s what’s important.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by waterfield.
    #120520
    Zooey
    Participant

    I agree with all that.

    I agree the protests are mostly peaceful.

    I agree that the police are significantly responsible for the violence.

    I agree that those facts don’t matter.

    I agree that it would be better for them to back down until after the election, then resume.

    I agree that they aren’t going to.

    I agree that that benefits Trump at this point.

    #120525
    wv
    Participant

    ….I agree that that benefits Trump at this point.

    ===========

    Well, I am WORRIED that it will benefit Trump. I am worried because in many places, including America, all through history, a perception that chaos/riots are spreading very very often SCARES the bourgeoisie into leaning to the Right.

    But…i dunno. America is a strange place today. Maybe things will be different this time. There are some encouraging signs, some encouraging polls. But who knows.

    I just wish Mississipi, Alabama, Texas, South Carolina and Florida would secede and form their own RightWing-Evangelical-Libertarian country. Really. If the Kurds deserve a homeland, then the South deserves one too.

    Abe Lincoln was wrong. Let’em go. Otherwise they are gonna drag us all to Hell.

    w
    v

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