Forum Replies Created
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This one is complicated.
While I don’t think this demonstrates that people “understand the underlying systemic-problem,” it shows that they understand that things are out of whack. This is not the equivalent of the Pussy Hat march, but in black instead of pink. It’s more than that.
Bear in mind that people around the world are protesting because of an American domestic incident. That’s not common.
I think there is unrest that is broader and deeper than just police injustice. I agree with zn and Billy that the Dem machine beat Bernie by successfully scaring voters into believing that Biden was a safer bet to beat Trump. It is plainly obvious, however, that Bernie is vastly more popular than Biden, and his policy positions precisely hit the issues Americans care about. People prefer Bernie. They were simply made to worry that Other People wouldn’t prefer him. They were convinced that they were in the minority.
I think these protests show that they aren’t in the minority…which we already knew. But I think these protests are about more than criminal justice. That’s a big part of it. But people are out there for other, related reasons. They are out there because the system is unjust in many, many ways, and everybody feels it, and everybody feels like Washington is largely corrupt, and unresponsive.
I don’t think many people have an appetite for revolution. But the resistance is growing, and this is not going to be pacified by the usual window dressing, I don’t think. I’m not sure, but I don’t think so. I don’t think that banning choke holds and making Juneteenth a national holiday are going to be sufficient. The government has been put on notice, imo. But they’ve prepared the police for this possibility, so now it gets interesting.
I applied for a passport yesterday.
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Cool.
I prettymuch disagree with most of that. And i submit, the evidence is not just Bernie vs Biden. Thats just one example among hundreds. For starters there’s Bernie vs 99 Senators. These radical-progressive-anarchist-antifa-lead uprisers voted over and over and over for Corporate-Dem-Senators and Corporate-Rep-Senators.
Over and over and over. Its not just about Trump or voting for people that might beat Trump, etc.If this country really had a large segment of progressive, informed, critical thinkers there would be evidence in the Senate. There aint.
Wanna look at the House of Rep? Whats ‘that’ look like. A smattering of progressives here and there.
So, no, I aint buying it. I think the bewildered herd will be baffled and confused and entertained and self-absorbed again, in a few weeks. And the very small number of committed critical-thinkers will be bashing on, relentlessly, as per usual.
w
v[/quoteWhy is a liberal or centrist Dem NOT a “critical thinker” ? Based on who would be better Sanders or Biden to beat Trump ?
I’m basically okay with that description. If it were me, I would ideally want to aim for center mass below the heart, but I get that you may only get one shot, and you better stop the assailant with that one shot.
I don’t ever want to be in that position. While I have an older shotgun left over from my mother’s “arsenal” if I had to use it in an emergency I would likely kill everyone around, including myself, except the assailant.
One of the interesting issues facing public employee unions-be they state, local, or federal-is do the members have the right to strike ? Under federal law they do not. However, a few states, including California, allow teachers to strike. I guess that means there are substitute teachers but not substitute firemen ?
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I dont know, but you were right about the Police Unions. I had to be educated on that.
Still, I know damn well the rightwing will use this to attack the Union(s) in ways that are too broad. We need police-accountability to but we dont need Unions with no clout to get decent wages, etc.
Tough balancing all this stuff. Some cities may pull it off and some wont.
w
vIt’s almost an impossible balance-one that does provide balance at the risk of getting nothing accomplished. We call that a standoff. Look at what’s happening in Major League Baseball today. A standoff that may ruin the game. I remember when the players went on strike in 94. They lost millions of fans who just could not comprehend millionaires going on strike. Those fans never came back either. I have no answers other than a comment that in baseball my gut tells me there is way too much money at stake to claim one side is innocent.
can they sue the police department?
Not under a Section 1983 cause of action. That is limited to “individuals”. And that is the only Federal law that would allow monetary damages. There are other provisions that would provide injunctive relief-meaning stop this and do that-that would apply to a police dept or any other governmental agency.
The Civil Rights Act of 1871 is a federal statute, numbered 42 U.S.C. § 1983, that allows “people to sue the government for damages for civil rights violations. It applies when someone acting “under color of” state-level or local law has deprived a person of rights created by the U.S. Constitution or federal statutes. Rights include the right to be free from injury and or death due to unlawful conduct in violation of the constitution or federal statutory law.
Given my job I’ve had in the past to sue individual officers and police departments for unreasonable and unauthorized conduct that result in injuries to another. In that light I have reviewed police manuals from both the LAPD and the LA County Sheriffs. There is nothing about shooting an “unarmed” man or woman in the heart. Addressing an attacker the following is a brief sum of what actually is in a manual: if an officers reasonably believes his life is in danger he was the right and obligation to do what is necessary to protect himself or herself. What Biden is suggesting is that in that situation officers can and should be trained to shoot to disable an attacker rather than kill them. Many police departments do precisely that. Of course not always does an officer in the heat of an attack ask “hey are you armed”.
Common guys. I know when police conduct is outside the boundaries. But how about some fairness on this subject. Otherwise it simply smells like agenda driven politics.
My point was not about cops. My point was about Biden.
He had a WEEK to come up with a statement on this, and he came up with “shoot them in the legs?” That’s the compromise? That’s just…embarrassing.
I take it for granted that the police should NEVER shoot to kill. Never. Any fatalities at the hands of the police should be accidental. They are not judge, jury, and executioners.
First of all: Biden has addressed the point often and for a long, long, time including even before he was Obama’s VP. His point has always been if possible whey a police officer’s life is in danger by an attack the police should be trained to disable the attacker instead of the freedom to kill. But he and legislators are ALWAYS faced with push back by police unions because they know their members are against that. So- back to your point-your wrong on Biden.
Now let me ask you this. You are home with your family and subject to a break in. You and your family are threatened with not just physical harm but possible death. You have a gun. (don’t dodge the Q by saying the hypo doesn’t apply because you don’t have a gun) Do you believe you have the right to be “judge, jury, and executioner” and do whatever is necessary to kill the intruder?. Now the odds are that likely will never happen to you. And you do not likely have a gun. But police see that every day. Most, if not all, police unions will argue with Biden that when facing an attack it is difficult if not impossible to know if that person has a loaded small firearm-moreover, many policemen and women have had their weapon taken from them in a struggle and used against them-and that is why they continue to oppose anything less that use of lethal means.
These are not easy issues and don’t deserve simplistic answers. I certainly don’t have easy answers. I do have one easy answer: If I saw a person about to attack my daughter with a knife or any member of my family I would do whatever I needed to prevent that from happening and if that was to kill the attacker I would. Would you ?
BTW: just as I finished the above I learned a police officer in Vegas is on life support right now for being shot in the head by a so-called “protester”.
Biden did say he opposed ‘cash bail’ which is nice.
The shooting to maim comment was stupid and is an example of his tone-deafness.He needs to come out with an eight or ten point plan for CHANGING police forces. Not a rambling, half-assed cliche-fest.
Its an historical time. What will he actually DO to prevent police brutality?
w
vI’ll tell you how you change “police forces”. Get the bad cops out ! But that ain’t so easy. The core culprits are the police unions-and their attorneys- who will not budge an inch on police brutality claims and will always claim bad conduct was justified. Much like teacher’s unions protecting bad teachers that make it all impossible to fire a teacher that has tenure. And all 1st responders have unions that are paid to prevent any type of disciplinary action against one of their members. And its costly for taxpayers and burdensome on governing authorities to overcome that in court. Been there done that. But THAT is where the reforming must begin. Right square in the face of the unions at the bargaining table when the cops-bad and good-come clamoring for more and more money, benefits and ever increasing measures to protect the bad cops. The Floyd case was an anomaly. The officer’s conduct was recorded for the public to see. He HAD to be charged and the union could not in good faith run interference. But it took until the video surfaced before any resemblance of justice could begin. But most police brutality cases-and you know this as well as I do-are not out in the public to see. Reform is badly needed but the real secret is that it must start with the bargaining agreements formed in negotiations over police salaries, benefits, and independent investigations into claims of conduct by individual officers. That is where it starts. And guess where I got that from WV? Biden himself !
it has escalated rather quickly. the national guard is being sent to los angeles.
but the majority of protesters during the day were peaceful. it’s now degenerated into lunacy.
where i am is relatively peaceful. but downtown and central la. it’s just chaos. most parts of la county are ok though.
Your right and you actually live here ! And it isn’t just downtown L.A. West L.A. Melrose Blvd, Bev. Hills, etc. You are also correct that during the day the protests were peaceful and respectful. Not now ! You are also right that the other officers should and likely will be charged-whether its some degree of murder or not will be up to the D.A.
