Mackeyser wrote:

wv wrote:

“… for establishment centrists, Warren was emerging as an acceptable alternative to Sanders…”

Yeah, and this is exactly what i expected. They’d love Biden, but if they think Biden cant win, they’d hold their nose and support Warren.

Anyone but Bernie for the centrists.

One wonders if they’d support Trump over Bernie?

w
v

Well, they did before, in large numbers.

I’ll just put this out there.

Trump is GOING to get re-elected because the DNC is feckless. Bernie NEVER had a chance and the DNC would rather fundraise another four years on Trump’s tweets than actually engage in representative democracy that is responsible to the constituent base as opposed to corporate donors. That’s why campaign finance was never going to happen.

I really tried for a minute to hold out hope for a Bernie candidacy, but when the DNC argues in open court that they do not have a fiduciary responsibility to the Bernie supporters who gave money and that they can use the money in any way they like and appoint a candidate in a backroom if they choose because violating their charter is not criminal… well, that was game over.

I’m glad Bernie is running insofar as he is the gravity to keep this from being a 1981 Republican vs a 2019 Trumpian, but unfortunately, I’m not sure even the gravity of a black hole could move the Dems to the actual center left, let alone to the left (Bernie being on the Center left and all).

Oh, also, hi all. Mea culpa, I’m an ass for not posting… at all. Between medical issues and my damned “outta sight, outta mind” functioning, I’m just terrible at communicating, it seems.

Hope this little ray of sunshine finds all of you well. Only the ray of sunshine is meant sarcastically, of course.

I don’t think the Dems are “feckless” . Just not in tune with most citizens. Here’s an article by Peter Schuck, an emeritus professor of law at Yale. It addresses how the democratic nominees commit “political suicide” when most, if not all, agreed with Harris that people in the country undocumented and who had not committed any crimes should not be deported. The article provides avenues to expand our immigration policies but at the same time not to endanger our sovereignty

IMO Trump is so bad and dangerous to our institutions and to democracy itself that the 2020 election is so important it no longer should be a matter of choosing one you “agree” with but rather someone who can take on and beat the SOB. But are the Dems smart enough to see that ?

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-schuck-immigration-open-borders-democratic-debate-20190702-story.html

I’m in a single payer system: Medicare-and I love it. Do I think it will work in this country for everyone ? No. There’s no comparing Canada’s system w/ roughly 35 million people to the US w/ roughly 300 million people. I’m attaching what I consider a scholarly article from Forbes that goes into detail on this subject. I urge you to read the entirety of the article even though it was written by a doctor. (i.e. “I couldn’t get past the fact that the author…”) IMO the comparison to Medicaid and Medicare (both government run) is quite telling.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertpearl/2017/03/16/why-a-government-run-single-payer-healthcare-approach-is-doomed-to-fail/#1744e2d12d81

“until we find an effective way to limit healthcare spending, American healthcare will continue to fail — whether it is funded by private individuals, by competing insurance companies, or by a single payer… The drivers of cost inflation are drug prices rising at double-digit rates, new medical technology increasing expenditures on procedures, wages going up in response to labor shortages, and expensive regulatory requirements. Price controls in this environment can’t work.”

IMO the most logical answer is to carefully look at how we can improve the Affordable Care Act ( ObamaCare) and have to the guts to implement those changes that are needed.

The problem with “fuck the rich” is that it asks the public to assume the rich are less “worthy” than the poor. The truth is that there are lots and lots of wealthy people that are very “worthy” in that they are empathetic to the less fortune, do plenty of good deeds, are not selfish, blah blah blah. OTOH there are plenty of the poor who are, bluntly, just ass-holes and could care less about their fellow man -poor or rich. In that light keep in mind what Steve Bannon recently said: In order for Trump to get re-elected he needs to get every single “deplorable” out to vote. And Sanders one shoe fits all message just gets tiring and old as its repeated and repeated. I think both he and Biden are simply too old to travel in this world we live in today. God help us if the white house idiot remains at the helm.

“One wonders if they’d support Trump over Bernie?

w
v

Well, they did before, in large numbers.”

Your saying that moderates in the Democratic party,like me, in large numbers, supported Trump over Bernie ? Where and when was that? I didn’t think they ever faced each other. Maybe your referencing some sort of poll where some moderates “said” they didn’t care for Bernie and even “liked” Trump better ? I don’t recall anything resembling that. Assuming that is true I don’t see that translating into actual voting for Trump as opposed to Sanders if he had been the nominee. Not by the time the election was at their doorstep.

Sanders is done after last night. He and Biden both come off as being old for the job. Sanders has one message-fuck the rich-and it hasn’t changed. Same stuff each time he opens his mouth. Its old-he’s old. Biden wasn’t much better. Buttigieg impressed me more than anyone. Far more Presidential. Trump would be hard put to beat this guy. Andrew Yang had the best and most practical economic message: give everyone $1000 a month. That’s not money that’s going to be saved. It will be spent which will be good for the working class. While Harris is getting all the publicity IMO she was aggressive and can tell a story-but that’s it.

Of the two days the most impressive to me were Warren, Buttigieg , Gillibrand, Booker and Castro. Which of course is ironic since the favorites were Biden and Sanders. I love Biden but he’s been through and awful lot in his life and I think James Carville is right when he says he may well be too old for this job. Sanders is like a cult hero. Nothing more and the debate last night displayed just that. He can’t hold a candle to Warren on the issues that they share. She articulates HOW to get to a more equal distribution of wealth and is much brighter and quicker than he is.

The key to getting Trump out will be that segment of the population that did not go to the polls in 2016-african americans. Sanders can’t do that. Right now Biden has them in his pocket but he is slipping-maybe not with the people but with his fellow democrats. Buttigieg can’t get much support from that segment. I hope Warren can because I think she may lead the ticket.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by waterfield.

They usually reside in the deeper parts of the ocean. However, a few times a year they do come to the surface in mass for some natural reason. They actually are very dangerous if you are in the water. They have razor like teeth all around and will charge you head on. I don’t care for them at all and will get out of the water if a boat is near. In the gulf off Baja near Santa Rosalia on certain nights they are attracted by the Mexican pangas with lanterns and will come to the surface in the thousands. The Mexicans haul them on board these little boats and bring them to a canning factory in the town. Bad fellas.

I’m afraid most of that is true. The fact that he is a narcissistic baby means nothing to half the people in this country if they “perceive” that their own personal circumstances (read selfish) is better than they would be under a democrat. It is and always will be how a voter looks at his own relationship with the economy. The democrats can go on about the climate, health care for all, and free college tuition but to half of this wonderful country that translates to government taking something “away” from them. Bannon knew this from the very beginning and so do the Republicans of today.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-dorfman-chilean-plebiscite-lessons-for-america-20181005-story.html

On balance I think she was more credible because she called for a further investigation into her assertions-something she would normally not do if she was making up the story-and of course he doesn’t want the FBI to investigate the only eye witness-and neither does Trump nor apparently any Republicans. Equally important is the temperament he displayed in his response. Especially his anger. It is easy to see how someone that “unleashed” could do what she alleges. Finally, a person who sits on the highest court must have respect as a person even if one disagrees with his “legal” arguments. I can’t see how anyone, including fellow jurists, can give that self pity, angry man the respect that one would expect for a person sitting on the highest court. Finally, if Clinton or any democrat-for that matter-came before a court he was sitting on he would have to recuse himself after that rant of his.

“But any current or future politico that espouses even a socialist-lite platform like Bernie’s will always be marginalized by the dems.”

I would change that sentence to read: “But any current or future politico that espouses even a socialist-lite platform like Bernie’s will always lose”

That’s because an enormous part of this country’s population is uneducated to understand what socialism really is and how much it is actually already part of America. Any mention of the S world will scare them because they have been taught by their parents and friends that socialism is a big bad word never to be mentioned around them. No-the Democrats are wise not to go in that direction.

If any normal person saw the interview that Jake Tapper (Chief Washington Correspondent for CNN) had with Ocasio-Cortez they would say to themselves-if this is what socialism is or what a “progressive” is I don’t want any part of it. The woman simply could not answer a question w/o dodging into a propaganda speech. And IMO on the issue of “fairness” Tapper is the best of the best.

Keep in mind all those Republicans in that piece by Mahr not once mentioned or advocated for any idea that might sound “socialistic”. What they did do was go hard at an incompetent, racist pig of a President. Yes the Dems need to go that hard on the “idiot”.
Unfortunately for the average Joe they “think” that since the economy is rising (for the rich) that turning to a social democratic agenda will take $$$ away from them ($$$ they don’t really have now) Mahr is an idiot when it comes to political strategies.

“It will always be the economy stupid”. Someone once said and its true. People can live with a racist ignoramus at the helm as long as he promises to keep those smelly socialists (or is that commies) hands off their toys and money. We need someone to protect what we have accumulated and no socialist is going to take away that to give to someone else. We no longer-if we ever were -a country where people actually cared about the less fortunate and the Republicans-at least today’s Republicans have tapped into that. Bannon would absolutely love to have the Democrats take a stand advocating for either a progressive of socialistic agenda. And believe me he ain’t stupid and the dark night still controls most of the thought process of those in power now.

Mahr is wrong-dead wrong. The only genuine way for the progressives to come into power is unfortunately for this country to undergo another major depression-like what happened in the 30s. Once again, its the economy stupid. If by some miracle we take the House this November it will be on the backs of women and minorities on issues that are unrelated to healthcare for all, etc. It will be on social issues. Abortion, sexual abuse, police brutality, etc But I don’t see those issues having lasting power compared to a “perceived” healthy economy. The democrats have to realize we are simply a selfish-look our for yourself-country. We used to care. We don’t anymore. How and why did that change: IMO Vietnam changed us all.

He’s a health Nazi-no question about that.

I don’t know him but I’ve read the book about him (can’t remember the name-was written by a woman) and seen his interviews like the one you attached-and I can’t say I would like to sit down and have a beer with the guy. So there’s that.

Oh I do blame the “system” for many things including our need to be at all cost “winners” and “better” than others.

But I don’t blame the “system” for our inherent racism and bigotry. I don’t blame it for our lack of political critical thinking. I don’t blame it for our need for simple and quick answers to difficult issues. I don’t blame it for the rise of evangelical crusades in our country-hence Kavanaugh. And I believe it is just as simple minded to say that its all the fault of corporations as it is for the right to say its all the fault of big government. The difference is that the left looks at it like a hopeless machine whereas the right takes it as a call to arms and argues that its time to move against the government-NOW ! Which is precisely what brought the Tea Party and later the present Freedom Caucus into power.