What a great thread.

Just sayin’

Another poll had him at 50% disapproval.

Just read a poll that had him at 45% approval, 50% disapproval with 40% supporting IMPEACHMENT.

I think the Republicans are waiting…

They got Pence in there… They’re just waiting for a reason at this point. Every minute Trump’s in there now harms the Republican brand…

Toasting THIS bread… Dave’s Killer Bread…is HEAVEN

Non-GMO verified, USDA Organic, no High-Fructose Corn Syrup and it tastes AWESOME. Super nutty and just wonderful…dense, but not dry.

AND!!! Fully 1/3rd of all the employees are former convicts. That’s part of their mission…to employ individuals with criminal backgrounds as part of their Second Chance Project and the DKBfoundation.

So, you’re damn right there’s toast!!!

KILLER TOAST!!! (like this suggestion!)

Rams fan on Washington?

What will the few hundred of us do?

We’ll see.

I’m having this weird feeling right now of being extremely pessimistic AND optimistic at the same time…

There’s probably a terribly difficult to pronounce German word that encapsulates such a feeling…

so…yeah.

I dunno. I get that lil phrase from you, by the by. Thanks. (hope you don’t mind…) It’s proven most helpful. I often wished more people would use it.

We could be screwed. We might have already been screwed.

I dunno…

I just know that as Yoda said after Luke Skywalker left Dagobah with his training unfinished…

“…there is another…”

Tulsi Gabbard nee Tamayo

Well, I said I was wrong.

I still think Trump’s instincts are to be isolationist, but Bannon is clearly calling the shots.

Bannon is so like Goebbels that it’s scary. Legit scary.

And that Fourth Turning stuff is essentially astrology…fake patterns as justification for…burning down the house. /shudder

So, yeah. With Bannon calling the shots, lots of takes on Trump will have to be rethought, cuz it’s not really Trump, but Bannon. He’s clearly more in Trump’s head than Rove was in Bush’s.

Now…I’m NOT letting this go. This all happened because the corrupt DNC just HAD to fix the primaries including limiting debates, shenanigans with independents not getting ballots, etc so that Clinton would win.

BERNIE would have kicked Trumps ass. That was unequivocally clear all along.

So… I’m just NOT gonna hear any talk of “Clinton would have been better” than Trump because that rewards outright cheating. Fuck. That.

We could have had Bernie. AND his progressive energy…

And to entertain ANY wistfulness about a Clinton victory is to dismiss all HER bullshit…and I’m not especially wanting to march and advocate and do all I can…only to keep the light on for the David Brocks of the world to further their neoliberal cabals. Not interested in fighting a war on two fronts.

Absolutely, the country and by extension the world is going to hell in a handbasket and lickety split by the looks of it.

But also…look at the engagement.

When 85 innocent people killed in Syria under Obama’s watch in July ’16…nary a whisper. No “my bads”…no condolences…nothing about the sanctity of human life and how we try to not do that in our efforts to go after terrorists… Nope. We just smoked 85 Syrians and nobody said a fuckin’ thing. Cuz…well, just cuz, I guess. American foreign policy somnambulation. Killing brown people abroad isn’t enough to wake us up.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

While I know *I* would be making this same level of ruckus, I KNOW most others…wouldn’t if Clinton were elected. Granted, she wouldn’t be endangering alliances or threatening to invade Mexico…but it’s early…and all humor aside, I’m not willing to romanticize her nonsense just because we have an orange Cliff Claven in the Oval Office with The Clown from Spawn whispering in his ear.

Had she cared about democracy, she would have lost…and Bernie would be President. Had she faith in the people and the process…she would have lost and we would have Bernie. Before the Russians could get involved if they did (I still say the evidence supports a sneaker.net xfer of data to Wikileaks from a Clinton Staffer), it was Clinton who planned to elevate Trump because SHE thought Trump was the weakest candidate.

Clinton was never a choice because you can’t reward malfeasance. It was Bernie…or Jill Stein…or someone else…because principles MATTER.

Otherwise, what’s the damn point? Without principles, all this ends up being is a zero sum game of WHICH group of people gets the shit end of the stick and occasionally, the groups are slightly redefined. Oh, and the rich don’t have to play, cuz they NEVER get the shit end of the stick. Very rarely do they get the pointy end…but not the shit end. It’s the same neoliberal 3 card monte that would have Republicans getting enough State Houses so that after Clinton, if they won the White House, they’d be able to pass and immediately ratify Constitutional Amendments (they’re perilously close now).

Now, though, we’re seeing ordinary people re-engage in actual democracy like we’ve not seen since Vietnam and the Women’s March was the largest single protest in our nation’s history. 1% of our citizens were marching. I’m so out of the loop, I hadn’t even heard about it or I’d have been there, too (I really don’t like Facebook).

It’s a terrible question to ask if we needed a Trump to reclaim our democracy. I certainly haven’t advocated for that. I didn’t vote for Trump and have said from day 1 that he’d be nothing, but a disaster. And…so far, he’s holding up his end.

But if at the end of this we actually get our democracy back? I’ll just have to hope it isn’t a pyrrhic victory.

There would have been no victory with a Clinton win. Progressives would have been shut down like under Obama (you ‘member…), Climate Catastrophe would continue to accelerate with little to no progress and people taking no notice and on issue after issue…citizen disengagement.

I told my child after Trump won in November that the one thing Trump would bring…was…clarity. I think I posted that before. And he’s bringing that in spades. And I think it’s valuable in ways we as people, citizens, consumers, employees and in all sorts of relationships are starting to realize.

We have citizen engagement on an unprecedented level AND the return of actual journalism (nascent return, I’m not holding my breath for the reincarnation of Edward R Murrow…or even Gary Webb), but stories are getting broken. It matters.

Sorry, streamofconsciousness there for a bit…

Does this mean we’ll finally find the Lost City of Tanis and the Ark of the Covenant?

I mean, that would make a heck of a movie, dontchya think?

Well, I’ll say it.

America is currently ruled by a fascist regime.

Slice it how you like. Nascent fascism? That seems about right….

But I’d take issue with things like “compassionate fascism” or “fascism lite”…

The rights of individuals recede by the day while the rights of pseudo-religious organizations and corporations are significantly elevated. (you will note that SOME religious organizations will NOT be able to share in the “religious freedoms” that are being sought by the Trump Administration)

The slide is on. I’m just not willing to pretend that we’re not headed on a purposeful slide toward fascism.

I’M SAYING IT NOW IN BOLD PRINT. I THINK THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS ARE IN DOUBT. MEANING THAT I HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS THAT THEY WILL BE HELD.

Is that enough of an indication that we live in a fascist regime? Can anyone else guarantee we will have Presidential elections in 2020?

Even under Reagan and Bush, I don’t think any reasonable person doubted that elections would be held.

I have SERIOUS doubts. I think if the Republicans lose the Senate in 2018, and/or if there’s a terrorist attack after that (and no, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Trump Administration collaborated with a terrorist organization to allow one on US soil after substantial losses in 2018), that the Trump Administration would SUSPEND elections “until such time as America is safe…”

Reagan committed treason and collaborated not only with Iranians holding US hostages (while a private citizen), but with the Nicaraguan Contra death squads as well as a host of other terrorists (as sitting President). Nixon committed treason (also while a private citizen) by helping to scuttle the Paris Peace accords of 1968.

So…there’s precedent.

I don’t think it’s a question of IF we live in a fascist state. I think we do. It’s just nascent.

Think Germany in 1933. Hitler was appointed Chancellor after losing the Presidential election of 1932 in January of 1933 and it wasn’t until late February on ’33 with the Reichstag Fire Decrees that civil liberties were essentially annulled and Hitler elevated himself to the newly created position of Fuhrer once Hindenburg died in ’34.

So…now is like Germany in ’33.

Our civil liberties are about to go. That’s not a surprise. I’m pretty sure any one on this board could make that call. And with Dems in such disarray due to their abandonment of populism and embrace of corrupt corporatocracy, it would be all too easy to paint that corruption as… get this… treason.

And…viola… One. Party. State.

So…nascent fascist state.

Did I miss anything?

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Mackeyser.

Amazing.

Well, the important thing to remember is that we don’t have political assassinations here.

Well, maybe Kennedy, but maybe not. I mean, I saw that movie where they made bullets curve, so there’s that…

I’m sure that British dude beat feet and disappeared because the restrictions on his time share are ironclad and this dude died from loneliness.

OR…

Political assassinations actually happen…including in the US…including by some people we’re familiar with…because…that’s how it works.

I dunno. That timeshare theory is pretty compelling. Anyone who’s ever dealt with a timeshare can vouch for that…

Why are you spying on me!?!?!

There is a ton of “we get something for free” attitudes in America.

Democracy isn’t free. It requires every citizen to take substantial time to be engaged. The founding fathers were SO concerned with HOW MUCH engagement it required, that initially ONLY landowners could vote…and EVEN THEN, they still installed an Electoral College to create a further barrier to prevent an incompetent from becoming President.

Moreover, inherent in that, baked into the FIRST AMENDMENT is the most critical aspect of how citizens speak truth to power and keep the reigns in on government and that’s a FREE PRESS.

None of that is free. It requires vigorous and rigorous engagement. It requires time. OUR time. Our resources as citizens.

When there’s a mess, be it due to natural disaster, or citizen neglect, YES, YES, YES, it will take relatively more time and resources than otherwise in order to fix what was out of order.

Once a balance is attained, then maintenance levels of time and resource allocation can be allotted.

In this instance, I admire Bernie because he’s far more optimistic than I.

I would have what I call “potentially, the last vote” in which, it would be mandatory that every eligible voter would have to cast a vote. Period. The only issue would be this: “Will the United States remain a democracy?”

The alternative would allow citizens to abdicate their rights for their responsibilities.

If democracy didn’t win at least 50%, then a second vote would be taken with a limited set of alternatives…fascism, corporatocracy, oligarchy, “council of elders”.

And that would be that.

Cuz, frankly, the reason we have this current fascist state is because more than half of the eligible voters aren’t willing to take seriously their civic duty. People have died, sometimes badly, for the franchise. For ANYONE to cast it aside??? Yeah…that’s bullshit. That MORE than half the country does?

Makes me wonder whether us being Nazi Germany 2.0 isn’t what’s supposed to happen. Not that I endorse it.

But as I told the wife today… when I grew up, people used to ask “how could it have happened”. Well… THIS is how it happens. Present tense. Happens. As in currently happening.

People think that the New Deal reforms were free, that weekends and the 40 hour work week and overtime and the lack of child labor and workplace safety, etc all got here from Bible times and no one had to lift a damn finger.

Well, as we all know, a metric fuckton of fingers were lifted.

And because most people stop doing the lifting while the pressure increased to take worker reforms and even our very democracy away…we now find ourselves in this environment.

We as a society can either band together and fight… or become batteries in the fucking matrix.

Cuz for real, a small band of rebels ain’t gonna drag society by the hair to the promised land.

Either people want to be free or they don’t.

I dunno how, but WV is channeling me.

I’ll just sit back and enjoy it.

Mysteries of the universe and all that.

Okay, I was wrong.

I honestly didn’t believe that they’d take fascism to THIS extent.

Don’t get me wrong. The oligarchic corporatocracy was bad…but…fuck.

This is unadulterated, unapologetic fascism in its purest form.

I’m seriously starting to wonder if we’re going to have legit elections in 4 years…

Well, people wondered how it happened in Germany…

THIS is how.