I actually feel sorry for Carroll right now. And, I hate him, too, usually. While I didn’t like the play call, and understand the immediate dissatisfaction of his team and fans, when you see that the play usually is low-risk, I can get to where Carroll was strategically in that moment. I still think he made the wrong choice, but you also have to give more credit to the CB for making a great play there.

As for comparing the Seahawks to the Rams’ post-GSOT hangover, no, I don’t buy it, for all the reasons that zn and rfl mention.

Dammit, how did I miss celebrating the anniversary of Nittany’s birth? Oh, well, hope it was a good 51st!

I agree. I’d love for the Rams to sign a center. That may be their focus during free agency.

Cignetti and Boras sounds like a law firm.

I know nothing about these guys, but it’s pretty obvious that the offense won’t be reinvented in 2015, and that’s good, I think.

wv wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dak wrote:</div>

wv wrote:
jim, i was ready Bernies article about Faulk comments about the team and owner. I laugh at Bernies little rant against faulk…. st louis signed the contract to the dome and have known about the contract and did nothing till the last minute only after the ruling came out that st louis was in the wrong… dang… what a surprise they have to honor there part of the deal… Ive been a ram fan for 45 years and haven’t missed a game on tv since 1997. Hate to see them move but business is business and st louis did business poorly…. thanks for the chats and keeping us up on things.. we all appreciate it
simdoc 4:38 PM*

One, you have to go through the arbitration process. Two, Peacock has been working on this behind the scenes for well over a year. Three, LA has done next to nothing for 20 years to get a stadium. Four, San Diego has been at it for 15 years. I could go on. So you’re telling me St. Louis gets a year, a year and a half to meet Stan Kroenke’s schedule? Not the league’s schedule. But Stan Kroenke’s? Sorry. No sale. Obviously, Faulk’s entitled to his opinion, but he should stick to his area of expertise: the game of football.
jthomas 4:42 PM*
====================================

Its interesting how people have different ideas about
time-frames. JT sets the relevant time frame at “a year or a year and a half”.
But couldnt you argue that for years and years, the St.Louis folks have known this
issue was coming. And they did nothing?

I think both sides have points.

w
v

I really do think that when you’re talking about committing public funds, you go through the entire process. The CVC put together a plan to improve the Ed, which was the first step. I guess people can call that nothing, but it did cost money and effort to come up with the design. Then, they studied the Rams’ counter-proposal. There was a back-and-forth process that lately has been STL going forth, and SK giving nothing back.

During this entire process, SK has been more interested in L.A., apparently. So, while the Rams’ owner expects public aid for the project in STL, he’s moving forward with private money on an L.A. project. Then, SK is floating out there that he did indeed wait for STL’s cooperation but got bored and moved on — you know, trying to change the narrative. His actions, however, were of a man who avoided cooperation because he was looking to the West Coast.

I dunno Dak. The CVC dome-improvement plan was never ever
going to be taken seriously by Kroenke and they
should have known that. If they wanted to keep the Rams
they were gonna have to build a nice new stadium. Why didnt
the Peacock folks start working on this four years ago?

I mean thats a legitimate question, i think. A fair
question, i think.

I think the Peacock side also has valid
points and fair questions too.

But since both sides have reasonable points
and arguments — seems to me thats gonna tilt
things toward allowing the billionaire to move
the team, if thats what he wants to do.

There’s no ‘fairness’ in any of this btw
The move from LA wasn’t ‘fair’ and a move
back to LA wouldnt be ‘fair’. …call me a nihilist.

w
v

Like I said, local leaders could have been more proactive. But, that’s different than saying St. Louis didn’t make efforts to find a solution to the Rams’ stadium. I know that SK will make that argument, and the NFL owners will swallow it if it’s to their advantage, but, no, I don’t think that’s a reasonable argument, but rather a convenient one.

wv wrote:

jim, i was ready Bernies article about Faulk comments about the team and owner. I laugh at Bernies little rant against faulk…. st louis signed the contract to the dome and have known about the contract and did nothing till the last minute only after the ruling came out that st louis was in the wrong… dang… what a surprise they have to honor there part of the deal… Ive been a ram fan for 45 years and haven’t missed a game on tv since 1997. Hate to see them move but business is business and st louis did business poorly…. thanks for the chats and keeping us up on things.. we all appreciate it
simdoc 4:38 PM*

One, you have to go through the arbitration process. Two, Peacock has been working on this behind the scenes for well over a year. Three, LA has done next to nothing for 20 years to get a stadium. Four, San Diego has been at it for 15 years. I could go on. So you’re telling me St. Louis gets a year, a year and a half to meet Stan Kroenke’s schedule? Not the league’s schedule. But Stan Kroenke’s? Sorry. No sale. Obviously, Faulk’s entitled to his opinion, but he should stick to his area of expertise: the game of football.
jthomas 4:42 PM*
====================================

Its interesting how people have different ideas about
time-frames. JT sets the relevant time frame at “a year or a year and a half”.
But couldnt you argue that for years and years, the St.Louis folks have known this
issue was coming. And they did nothing?

I think both sides have points.

w
v

I really do think that when you’re talking about committing public funds, you go through the entire process. The CVC put together a plan to improve the Ed, which was the first step. I guess people can call that nothing, but it did cost money and effort to come up with the design. Then, they studied the Rams’ counter-proposal. There was a back-and-forth process that lately has been STL going forth, and SK giving nothing back.

During this entire process, SK has been more interested in L.A., apparently. So, while the Rams’ owner expects public aid for the project in STL, he’s moving forward with private money on an L.A. project. Then, SK is floating out there that he did indeed wait for STL’s cooperation but got bored and moved on — you know, trying to change the narrative. His actions, however, were of a man who avoided cooperation because he was looking to the West Coast.

zn wrote:

Well…they won.

.

Yeah.

I bet this “deflate-gate” is dismissed more quietly than a few PSI’s worth of air.

Well, if you ask me, Wilson certainly telegraphed the throw. That corner saw his eyes and jumped the pass. Plus, I don’t know if I’d trust that Seattle WR to make the catch, honestly. I don’t remember the ‘Hawks trying a pass like that all game.

I do feel like Lynch should have been an equation in that play, because you have the option of Wilson faking to Lynch and getting to the outside, where he’s so dangerous. Then, if it doesn’t work, he can safely throw the ball away, and if not, you still have a timeout.

I don’t put everything on the play call, but I still think it was the wrong call.

Plus, that was a really good play by the rookie CB. You have to give him credit. Again, Wilson had to telegraph the play first, but how many times have we seen that play work?

Seahawks 19, Patriots 18

SK is a corporate shark. He’s cold and calculating. That’s obvious NOW. But, there was a time when you could still maybe believe the words out of his mouth about how he wanted to keep the team in St. Louis. He said that a LOOOONG time ago. And, until pretty recently, Demoff kept talking about how the Rams were committed to St. Louis, which sounded pretty sincere. Since the L.A. stadium story, we haven’t heard boo from Demoff, so I’m imagining that’s when he got the memo, too.

I think it is fair to say that Kroenke didn’t try very hard. He didn’t spend time trying to leverage St. Louis into a better proposal. So it is easy to wonder how early in the game he started flirting with the Los Angeles move.

I would guess he began thinking about Los Angeles as the florists were arranging the flowers for Georgia’s funeral.

Yeah, I wouldn’t doubt that one bit. Only Silent Stan knows for sure.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Dak.

Pace definitely should be in on the first ballot.

Warner? He probably will be because of his story.

It would be so cool to see both go in together.

That was a brutal loss, and one of the most deflating plays I’ve ever seen on my TV set. Ick.

Chris Long is a pretty good writer.

I think the Patriots deserve credit for a lot of things. But, they also have to own criticism when it comes to cheating. They were already caught once.

One would think that if they were so good, why would they have to cheat to gain an advantage?

And, I have no problem with the media attention. Own it, Patriots.

One interesting point that Long makes is that the referees handle the footballs the most, implying that maybe they should have noticed. But, the refs don’t play the game, squeeze the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball, hold on to the ball while someone’s trying to strip it, etc.

Zooey wrote:

Well, yeah, I’m looking at this from a St. Louis Rams fan, so no, I don’t know the particulars of how Georgia fled L.A.

Yes, there was a stipulation that gave the Rams the opportunity to get a new stadium upgrade after 20 years. Local leaders knew they were going to have to play ball with Kroenke. Problem is, Kroenke took his ball to the West Coast before they really got playing.

Like I said before, SK could have bought land here to build a stadium. He did not. He bought in L.A. instead. He never gave any indication that he wouldn’t negotiate in good faith.

Dak, I am feeling your pain. I don’t know, though, that it is entirely fair to say Kroenke never played ball with St. Louis. (It might be, but I don’t know for sure one way or another). But I will say this: as you say, “local leaders knew they were going to have to play ball with Kroenke.” So…why didn’t they start earlier?

I don’t remember the exact timeline, but it seems to me that St. Louis could have seen this coming, and could have worked sooner. It seems like they didn’t kick into gear until the Ed upgrades were ruled inadequate. At that point…they may have been too late. Shouldn’t they have had a plan right THEN? They KNEW when the year-to-year lease option kicked in. If they KNEW that they were not going to be able to comply with the Top 25% clause in their deal with the Rams, why the hell waste all that time pretending like that was serious discussion? Don’t you think Kroenke can look at that preliminary chapter of the “end-of-the-lease agreement” as a complete waste of his time? I mean…the deal was Top 25%. And St. Louis proposes something that clearly is NOT top 25%. They reject Kroenke’s Top 25% counterproposal.

If I am going to sell my ’65 Mustang, and I’ve given you the right to be the first one to make an offer, and you offer me $7K on a car worth $20K hoping that I like you and will settle for something in between…well, I don’t know if you get to be pissed off at me when I put it on Craigslist for $20K and stop taking your phone calls.

I gave you the first shot, and you jacked with me. You are not the only market for my car, so don’t treat me like a rube.

Maybe St. Louis was naive to count on the hometown discount, and took Kroenke for granted here. I have an inkling that what I’ve said above is exactly what Kroenke is going to say before the owners vote. Essentially, Kroenke dealt with St. Louis, and St. Louis didn’t get their shit together in time.

I don’t know, man. Maybe you should be more pissed at your politicians than at Kroenke. That’s a multi-billionaire businessman there, and St. Louis took him for granted, seems like. That stadium pitch was a year late. The Ed upgrade pitch was a complete bullshit waste of time.

Food for thought.

Well, when you say local politicians, you’re talking about a loose conglomeration of city, county and state … and they kind of let the Convention and Visitors Bureau go through the paces. So, yeah, I see that the local effort was slow. I know they weren’t proactive. I just think the assumption was that SK was going to play this negotiation all the way to the end before deciding he’s hauling his team to L.A.

And, it is his team. St. Louis couldn’t build a stadium without his cooperation. And, there is no cooperation. As soon as SK came up with a valid plan to build an L.A. stadium, that was that. It’s not buying a car … it’s upgrading the stadium that you built for the franchise in the first place. And, you’re not talking about a private sale with private money, you’re talking about using taxpayer money. And, you have to go through the paces to show that you weren’t giving away public funds to a billionaire unnecessarily. You have to show good faith.

Now, you’re talking about public financing for a guy who can easily build a colossal stadium project on the West Coast, which makes the sale to the public even tougher.

My analogy wasn’t perfect. I didn’t take into account that this is not a private negotiation. This is a City that has to go through the paces to show that it’s being fiscally responsible before committing any type of public funding for a project that will enrich a very rich man. And, while the politicians are going through those paces, slowly as government often does, SK wasn’t returning phone calls to let everyone know, you know what, nevermind, you screwed the pooch by not kowtowing to my demands much earlier.

Yeah, STL’s leadership was slow to respond … but by SK staying silent, it had to make it difficult to move forward. SK could have started purchasing land and building his own STL stadium, for that matter. It’s not like anyone from L.A. was leading SK by the hand.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Dak.